1 hour ago, Shellbelle28 said:

"Alkaline water with electrolytes and minerals"... wonder what it tastes like. 

It tastes like extravagance. It makes you feel like a million bucks and the irresistible urge to hit the casino and duty free shops.

After having the behinds the scenes ship tour and hearing them explain the ?reverse osmosis? they use, i stopped buying bottled water and don't even use the free bottles of water they give to latitudes members. I'm perfectly happy with their tap water. I wish my home tap water was even close.

Deleted. Misread.

Agree with others Moderno salad bar is great. Many have wished they would offer a salad bar only option there and offer it for lunch.

Also agree that the Garden Cafe has some nice options. Check with the restaurant manager/chef. I recall every day there is a hearty salad (couscous, bean, etc.), plenty of fruit, and vegetable entrees. Sometimes I see some of the items from Moderno's salad bar there like artichoke and asparagus.

A quick search ... CUNY, SUNY, Columbia, NYU fall semester starts August 25. So the August 23 cruise cheaper marking the end of summer? Then parents celebrate on the cheaper cruise happy not to pay for their college bound kids to tag along?

17 hours ago, Named-Tawny said:

You know, I'm not sure if I've ever done the buffet, unless it's the early morning breakfast one, because I have a super early excursion.

Always figured why serve myself when I can get somebody else to bring me food at the MDR.

Is the buffet any good?

It's pretty good. YMMV.

I indulge on food I can't get anywhere else on the ship and rarely have on land...

Lox (they hide it at the far ends of the buffet), smoked salmon, cantaloupe and watermelon, (I hate buying underripe or overripe ones at the market... control issues too?), whatever's at the carving station, made to order egg station, and making my own italian cold cut sammich (no skimping on the hard salami or prosciutto).

If the OPs intent is to gauge the risk of sailing on the cruise ship, as a thought exercise, let say 100% of people present genuine vaccination cards and test results. Even so, there will still be people who are infected and test negative and they will become infectious in the days following. Take precautions according to your risk tolerance.

2 hours ago, graphicguy said:

The original CDC (for U.S. passengers) vaccination card also needs to be shown.  Names must match your passport, your COVID test report and the name on the COVID vaccine card.  As an aside, anyone presenting a forged or counterfeit CDC Vaccination card is a felony and  Federal offense.  Anyone willing to take that chance just to board a cruise ship probably isn't smart enough to do a good job of the forgery/counterfeit and would be easily caught.

 

And, as always, your passport must be presented.

Presenting forged Covid test results are also offenses that have substantial fines. $2400 in Bahamas, $6000+ in Bermuda, etc.

7 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

What does room service coffee come in, just a mug of coffee or a pot and mugs?

A carafe with cups.

Also, on my last cruise, I had to ask for a coffee machine. They did not keep it in the cabin or hidden in the closet like past cruises. I believe this is to cut down on the number they have to clean and disinfect.

Inside to Club Balcony Suite is the Hamilton Beach Personal one cup machine with soft round coffee filter "pods". Last time for a real suite and above they used the Lavazza "espresso capsules" made of aluminum and are smaller than Keurig K-Cups.

8 hours ago, lx200gps said:

There seems to be a huge variation in the boarding experience in the last week or two, ranging from "great" to "unmitigated disaster" and we're boarding on June 12. Having never sailed out of the MCT, is it possible to go through the entire check-in process well before boarding starts, and then LEAVE the terminal, cards in hand, to wait outside instead of in the waiting room? Then, once boarding has started, a few hours later, go back through security, and walk onto the ship? If so, it might be worth trying to get into the line as early as possible.

Yes. You can leave the Manhattan Cruise Terminal after checking in. You will need to go through the security screening again. This is provided NCL doesn't change the Covid testing policy due to Omicron variants 4 and 5 which sound nasty.

My PCC told me he gets credit if I book with him. You have to secure with a deposit/FCC with him and not using the NCL website. Most of my bookings are budget solo cruises. Even so, he was grateful I went out of my way to call and book with him.

I agree with others. Speak to a supervisor and get another one if you're unhappy. However, if you make it a habit of asking a PCC for help after you book cruises online for which they don't get any credit, you probably won't be on their priority list.

  FYI. From a reviewer's recent experience on the Joy.

Review: First time Norwegian cruiser Joy to Bermuda on May 29th out of Manhattan

2 hours ago, CleverUserNameHere said:

•  Embarkation out of Manhattan was the worst. I suggest arriving at 8:30 or after 1 pm. It was organized chaos and line after line after line. Security line, Bermuda TA line, covid testing line (for some), and only THEN check in line which moved the slowest of all. The whole process took 2- 2.5 hours. I highly doubt we will be choosing to sail out of there again, although sailing past Ellis island and the Statue of Liberty was pretty cool.

8 hours ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

OK,

 

I've been watching a few Cruise etiquette videos and suddenly I realized - I MIGHT BE A LINE JUMPER.  🤢🤢🤯It was a real moment of self reflection.  But before I place myself in the cruise penalty box I have a few questions:

 

1. Line backs up for the roast beast carving station - I don't want beast, can I go ahead??

2. I get back to the table. my wife says, OOOoooh - would you get me one of those. - Do I have to start back at the start of the line or can I get the thingy??  ie. Hit and Run through the line

3. Multiple stations in the buffet - where does the line start??  Is there one line per station or is there only one line ?

4. New tray of HVT (High value treats) come in behind me - reverse flow or suck it up camper and start over in the line?

5.  What's the proper distance to jump the gap?  10 feet, 15 feet, NONE?

 

In retrospect, I might be LINE JUMPER, I do not think I slowed down anyone else's buffet experience down - I'm pretty quick but I might have committed some faux pas from true proper buffet etiquette.  Before I am forced to walk the plank, we normally eat at the MDR not the buffet. But every once in while we end up at the buffet.

 

 

Did I miss which city you'll be disembarking from?

If it's New York, follow the line until you're near the front and then suddenly turn sharply even if you think there isn't enough room to squeeze in. People will magically let you merge because they don't want to scratch their paint job, then give the person behind you a dirty look like they should have known better. If you don't do this, you'll starve waiting eternally at the end of the line while everyone else endlessly cuts you off.

P.S. If you wear this t-shirt, people will naturally back off too.

9 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Two reasons you will be moved. 1) They want you isolated so other passengers can't see the hazmat suits coming and going. Your trash is treated as hazmat. The food tray you put outside your door after eating is treated as hazmat, etc... and 2) They want you near the medical center (silly I know since no one is really getting sick). 

 

If you test positive you should expect to be moved to an ocean view cabin. That appears to be the result 99% of the time. There are a handful of reports being moved to an inside cabin and a handful being moved to a balcony, but zero reports of being able to stay in Haven. 

Another thread mention another reason is so security can monitor the hallway to ensure you don't leave your cabin. It's easier to keep track of all infected passengers if they are in the same location. Apparently, cabin doors can't be secured in a way to lock passengers inside.

46 minutes ago, dcipjr said:

 

When I was aboard the Joy, a member of the crew told me that they are visiting Norfolk because NCL wants to homeport a Prima class ship there, and they have to establish a relationship with the port and city.

 

He told me that this was hearsay, and he wasn't 100% sure, but it seemed to make sense.

 

They may be partially provisioning the ship there to establish supply lines with vendors, etc.

Norfolk is pretty. When I was there on recently, the ship arrived on a Saturday morning and it was mostly crickets. The city was quiet, very few people on the streets except for cruise passengers, many stores and restaurants appeared closed. Lovely for walking around. I got the impression that Norfolk is busy only during the work week. Would the town open up on weekends if Prima home ported there? Hmm...

Thank you OP for sharing your experience and for others who shared the insight in what to expect from a ship's medical facilities. It's given me much food for thought. God forbid I find myself in a situation where a loved one falls ill or is injured before a cruise, I would seek immediate medical assistance on land.

A few comments...

A $150 house call from a doctor in the middle of the night is laughably cheap compared to the USA, and $400 is a relative bargain for emergency treatment / urgent care. I just dished out thousands of dollars out-of-pocket just for routine preventative care and I have "health insurance." It was even worse a few years back when they wouldn't cover x-rays and I had to dish out a couple of thousand for them. A recent house call for my disabled mom is $550 out-of-pocket.

OP Post #11
No it happened on the night before the cruise.  We didn't know the extent of the damage or where we should go for help.  Thought we would board the cruise and get help from the medical centre onboard which we did.  They virtually bundled us off the ship and we didn't have a chance even to talk to our travel companion to tell her what was happening.

OP Post #51
Yes the accident happened on the way back to the hotel for the night about 9.00 PM.  The first thing I did was ask the advice of the reception.  It was either the doctor or the public hospital.  There didn't seem much point in the doctor since he obviously needed a photo made which couldn't be done by a visiting doctor. There are 2 kinds of hospital in Greece public or private.  The public one is free, the private are not. The public hospital did not seem the best option for his care.

It appears you did know where to go for help. You were given options and you made a medical determination that your child's injury was minor enough that it could be treated by medical services on a floating hotel. You were mistaken. Did you call and ask for advice from emergency services, the hospitals, doctors, etc, or did you choose only between NCL and the options given to you by a hotel receptionist.

You decided to place NCL in a situation where they became responsible for diagnosing and treating your child's injury--An injury that occurred when you were not a passenger at the time. I would be grateful that the situation wasn't more serious and that NCL was able to diagnose his injury quickly and correctly, and they correctly sent you back on land for treatment. Goodness gracious what if they diagnosed it after the ship disembarked and your son aggravated his injury or simply got worse in the meantime. Would insurance even cover you in a scenario where you chose to seek medical care from a floating hotel rather than go straight to a doctor or medical facility on land?

If NCL had given my loved one prompt correct medical treatment, I would be sending them a thank you letter.

On 5/20/2022 at 8:49 PM, mking8288 said:

Last but not least, to summarize some of the key elements - did we enjoyed ourselves and our week onboard the Norwegian Joy ?  Short answer, yes and it met our tailored expectations as a whole and for the most parts.  Nothing is perfect in this imperfect and challenging global world that we live in, especially directly under the shadows and shades of Covid-19.  Did it exceed and/or above and beyond, no - it did not.  Score this Bermuda cruise by NCL on the Joy, somewhat between "A" and A minus (4.25 out of a possible/maximum perfect score of 5.0)

 

From the time we booked, waited for online check-in to open at 21 days, to the morning of our embarkation - NCL has provided a steady stream of information, important details and especially about its health & safety protocols, and vaccination/testing requirements, some of which are unique & specific to Bermuda, which has previously conflicted with guidelines issued by government entities on the islands - leading to confusing among some guests.  Generally, it was concise, timely, useful and important - including the virtual but mandatory muster station/emergency evacuation drills with the customized videos on YouTube. NCL, however, needs to do a better job of posting, updating and alert booked guests on what, when, and how, etc. - especially, when to submit the initial Bermuda TA application & paid the $40 p/p fees (answer: ASAP starting at 30 days out from sailing, we did ours about 2 weeks away as we book the cruise late - last minute)  Timing of the submissions, what not to do and how to deal with, not getting the TA approval just 24 hours before sailing - guidance can be improved.  Score: B+ to A- 

 

  Nerve-wrecking to arrange to get tested at Day 3 (morning of being best) - 2 days prior - & immediately upload negative results to BDA, and then wait for approval (prayers won't hurt, LOL).  If things hit potholes and bumps, it's 1 to 2 hours on hold in the toll-free queues, avoid calling the non-toll-free long distance number or your phone bill is going to implode.  Our B-TA approvals starting coming in about 24 hours after we uploaded them on Saturday morning, and by late afternoon - all 6 were granted permission to travel & disembark in Bermuda from the cruise.  Otherwise, there is that provisional approval, allowing on to embark ... and, go ashore once approval issued while en route.

The B-TA is expected to remain in place thru early 2023, almost everyone hates it except the local government, generating millions in revenue, not exactly tourism & visitors friendly, but ... 

For all these & related communications - Score: B rating overall.

 

  Maybe, just an idea, a handy checklist from NCL to follow might help - anyone not comfortable with modern smartphone or iPhone usage, text messaging, mobile email and online access are going to find all these, very much a pain.  Good news, kind of, MCT now has free WiFi to use, unsecured & somewhat poor in signal & coverage, depending on your whereabouts vs. the nearest router(s) - does help if you have trouble retrieving your test results or PDF docs, etc. (woohoo !!) as it's a known fact that regardless of being on VZW, AT&T or T-Mobile, cellular coverage inside the vast terminal building was & remain poor to just usable at best, 5G signal - hahaha, forgetabout it.  Wasn't there in March, 2022 - unless I wasn't looking hard enough before.  

 

  Embarkation/pier arrival:  Screening, Check-in and the Boarding process - Joy's Guest Services team now knows & heard from me directly last week, it's not working seamlessly.  Promises not kept for priority embarkations for some of the suite guests that are supposed to be entitled to them.  NCL is accountable & should put forth immediate changes to better manage the steps, process and take immediate corrective measures to troubleshoot, fix & resolve issues inside the terminal that's important and they can mitigate, correct and change - shifting the burden and deflecting is not acceptance.  If not, this mess will stay for the entire Bermuda cruise season into 2023, oh lord. My plea - do something about it, anything but must try harder, not acceptable as is.  Score is a C plus.

 

  For our Bermuda sailing, we selected 10 - 10:30 am arrival to check-in ... assuming that we can and will invoke some sort of priority check-in at the cruise terminal, MCT / Pier 88, which we are very familiar with ( ~ 25 years) - after all, we're sailed out of there on the NCL Getaway a month ago & returned (our 1st. post-pandemic cruise in over 2 years) - and expected a bit of chaos & confusion once inside.  Sure enough, things been changed, for the worst - no thanks to the partnering innovation among NCL, pier operations and the outsourced shore-side contractor (and, their assigned employees on the job) in how things go, the flow for arriving passengers eager to be onboard ASAP - nearly caught us off-guard entirely.  Plus, masking inside the busy building was no longer required, unlike March, optional only and freestyle for all passengers, do as you pleased and social distancing nearly impossible, no matter how you try & look at the roped setup for the screening/security lines & even as you approach the sectioned check-in areas for different clusters of passengers (i.e. Haven, Platinum & all others). 

 

  First or Step 1.2 - Go Inside, after you checked any luggage or bags with the (Step 1.1) porters curbside, is to figure out where to start.  Haven and accessible passengers generally found someone to greet & help them, get pointed in the direction and sometimes escorted to move ahead.  All others - "go straight head" is the generalized instructions, follow the herd - didn't matter if you are Diamonds, Sapphire, Platinum, VIP or CAS - if you push & ask, maybe - the answer is different.  But, not really - fortunately, it wasn't too terrible at 10:10 am, the line moved at a steady pace and before we know it, our passports & eDocs were checked or inspected quickly. 

 

  Maybe next time, tell our older sister-in-law if we cruise together again, to request wheelchair assistance for boarding, she has a little mobility issues but generally, out of pride, try to manage on her own - and, walk slowly, very slowly without a cane or anything ... sometimes, carry a long umbrella.  

 

  Next, Step 2 - Security & x-ray checkpoints - hey, at least - we no longer have to do serious TSA style screening, drop the belts (pants - hold on to them if it's loose, darn those suspender clips - they go "bing bing" if you walk straight thru the machine. )   Just toss everything, wallets, keys, coins, smartphones, gold dentures, etc. into the carry-on bags or the little trays,  Actually, water bottles get thru here - regardless, they really weren't worried about soda-runners ... and, those vending machines are still selling over-priced bottled water & Pepsi products, from what I could tell at a distance, near the restrooms.  No priorities here for just about anyone - lines were short, no backup - got thru in less than 3 or 4 minutes top.  Easy for being there "early" but not too early - actually, by now - there's probably more than a few hundreds already thru the whole arrival, hanging out in different parts of the building, standing-sitting-waiting-chatting and wondering, are we going to be boarding soon.  Not a bad idea to mask up until you are onboard, IMHO.  

 

  Step 3 - Bermuda extras - Documents checking - if you aren't cruising to Bermuda or stopping there somehow on your cruise, not a problem.  Otherwise, this is done by about a dozen or less pier workers with NCL logo badges, spread out across & behind those long counter stations - carefully looking at your negative test results, B-TA approvals, and passports or travel documents - everything matched & satisfactory, then - a sticker for your passports & here's where we're just handed Group/Zone 15 boarding card, I asked & told the agent we are in a suite & also Platinum (Sapphire) - she couldn't care less about it.  Pointed three of us to keep walking to complete check-in ahead.  Getting grumpy and annoyed, WTH.  I suppose, one can protest here, stand our grounds & demanded to see a supervisor or senior rep from NCL - and, possibly risk being reported to security.   Score: D minus here. 

 

  Memo to myself - this isn't going to be easily forgotten, and mentally, documenting it all, stealth photos of the surroundings here & what's going on, someone is going to hear & read about this later on, not if I cannot help make a difference - imagine passengers with a little language barrier or easily intimidated.  Calm down, relax, breath & keep going - don't allow this to ruin our cruise week, just a bad start inside.  

 

  Step 4 - finally, we are approaching the usual Check-In area, usually on a fast track once we "flashed" our status, whether it's Platinum/Sapphire, VIP (CAS) or whatever.  Apparently, the word "suite" passengers does not ring a bell, nor triggered anything at all (maybe, "Faster to the Fun" as in Carnival might help do a bling bling) - she looked at her clipboard, flip the sheets & started to point us to the longest line ... that is, all others ahead.  Sapphire, what's that, huh - finally, Platinum set off the sparks - after I spotted signage.  Amen, she finally said, go there & not here as one of her co-worker walked by - just 2 other "parties" in front of us in the short line ... going to be okay soon.  No less than 3 or 4 minutes later, the next available agent waived her cardboard "paddle" to step over - and, proceeded to repeat the passport & eDocs checking, again ... didn't have to re-take our mugshot pictures again.  Asked the few health screening Q's and went to the back area to find & came back with our Guest Key Cards - sending us on our way, to walk straight ahead, again. 

 

  No, she did not check to see if we are Group/Zone 1 to 3 or 4 - being Sapphire & suite passengers, either of which - entitled or should've given us a little bit of priority boarding.  Nope - wasn't the case (and, I checked with my BIL in the other suite ... they're told in find a place to sit in the general waiting area nearby - also did not received or given a Boarding Group or Zone # with lower number either ... and, they got there a little earlier than us.  Luckily, I visually scanned around while walking thru the vast terminal, spotted the very much packed, nearly already full Haven "lounge" & exclusive "check-in" area & staffed with NCL concierge teams ... fairly easy to spot them at a distance; and, also saw the usual lounge/roped off area near the security podium setup by the ship inside the building near the doors leading outside to the walkways, and also the usual Platinum seating area, roped off - just like late March for the Getaway cruise. 

 

  Rounded up all of them, 6 of us matched back after going around & told the pier greeters "guarding" that seating area that we are Platinum & went in and took up empty seats to wait & relax.  That's when we heard the overhead P.A. announcement that due to an USCG inspection, unplanned ?? this morning, that early/boarding will be delayed indefinitely - they do not have an ETA and not going to give one, since ... folks are asked to do whatever, and listen for the announcement once they are ready.  It helped explained that at 11:30 am, Haven guests are still hanging out inside the building like everyone else. It's going to be a "late" lunch for us but the MDR should be open by the time we get on the ship.  

 

  Most aren't wearing masks at all - older passengers & especially those in wheelchairs or otherwise, near the accessible waiting area, are fairly good & most, if not all, masked up.  Not required, not encouraged or recommended, strictly optional and completely, "freestyle".  

 

  After a while, but not long - closer to/around noon, we saw that the uniform USCG folks were starting to leave the ship via the gangway, apparently done or finishing up the inspection.  Some of the crew were still in their life jackets out on the lifeboat deck in groups - more crew members in assorted work clothes from different departments began coming into the building, that's signaling that early boarding & Haven will be first and next to be on the ship first.  Good ... and, we follow shortly thereafter once the accessible passengers are escorted with assistance to proceed.  

 

  Getting hungry already as we ate a light breakfast before leaving our home at 9:20 am, only took us about 30 minutes - with a quick & direct detour via historic Harlem, going crosstown via the RFK Bridge & then back on the Henry Hudson Parkway, direct to get drop off at Pier 88 by our car service, Carmel - again, this trip, a free upgrade to a comfortable & roomy minivan for the three of us.  Overall, not too bad - 45 to 55 minutes from curbside to getting the key cards, could've been a lot slower & much worst, had we didn't get our TA issued in time.  

 

  Not without another hiccup for a smoother embarkation on an easy Sunday morning - someone didn't properly communicate and coordinate, began calling Zone/Group 1 thru 5 to start & proceed to the boarding area.  Of course, that started the canine race with about 300 people, more or less, all eager to beat everyone else inside - to head for the double doors.  The greeter responsible for the priority area stationed at the Platinum waiting area began yelling to stop & hold up everyone else, as "the group" hasn't even moved out from the roped-off area.  Very poorly managed, I think, luckily - perhaps, between the gentleman and security, they open up the side next to the podium and moved everyone in our section as best as they could, on a faster path or track to head outside to the walkpath for the Fwd gangway to reach the Joy.  Score: B, maybe B minus - definitely, not A minus for sure ... not this time for NCL.  Sorry, they need to do a better job & NCL is responsible.  

 

  In short - embarkation day was a little extraordinary b/c of the extra elements for Bermuda, and, supposingly, the extra/en route stop on Day 2 at Norfolk, Virginia - kind of a "detour" to sail south before heading east (which, didn't happen on this cruise as we ran straight into & thru a fairly big stormy weather system at sea ... more on that & already discussed).   

 

  Onboard the Norwegian Joy: it's not a brand name ship, the character & personality of the this mega-ship is a little different than the Breakaway, Getaway and the Escape - 3 other ships that we are pretty familiar with.  Some of the difference are "physical" in terms of public venue locations and yet identical in many, most ways - if you been on other NCL ships, it's pretty easy to know and find your ways around ... besides, look at the carpet fishes along with public hallways or corridors, simple to tell bow from stern, then figure out starboard from port side.  As a whole, the crew and the officers are warm, cheerful, helpful, friendly, smiling and often go out of their ways to help.  

 

  In the next sub-chapter, going to give a quick snapshot of dining and services onboard, shopping and shows, writing all these up is taking more time than I've imagined.  Hang on and will come back to this shortly.

 

I was on the May 1st sailing. I had a similar check-in experience except yours managed to be a hair worse because I saw suite guests on a dedicated very short line for security, bermuda screening, and check-in.

Once on board, I complained to guest services, and wrote to NCL leadership while on board the ship. Apparently they didn't make any changes on your cruise. The only response I've received from NCL was an email stating they will pass my comments on to the port agency.

They are really messing things up for their repeat customers sailing out of MCT.

Santorini is famed for having one of the most beautiful sunsets in the world. You may want to check with the tour operator that you won't be on a bus heading back to the ship and miss out on the sunset. Been there done that. It wasn't a big deal for me but I felt sad for the people trying to take a photo with their telephoto lens through the tour bus glass windows while it's moving.

36 minutes ago, dcipjr said:

No, this specific sailing didn't have Norfolk, VA. Probably because it's Memorial Day and everything will be closed.

Thanks!

I see that the NCL Joy May 29th sailing from NYC to Bermuda no long has Norfolk VA as the first stop.

Can anyone report if they dropped it recently? I would have sworn it was on the itinerary a week ago.

The sailings after June 5 still have Norfolk but I'm wondering if this recent change is a preview of things to come.

Virginia's positivity rate is over 16.6%. New York City for comparison is 6.7% (Manhattan)

3 hours ago, smillerholmes said:

Hi - I tend to go on longer cruises and I'm pretty picky about creamer so here's what I take....no refrigeration needed until they are opened. 😁 Obviously, it adds weight to your bag so there's that.

Hope this helps!

I bring the powdered  version and empty half of it, then stuff other things such as teabags, loose leaf tea, organic sugar in ziplocs. Saves space an I haven't had issues with Manhattan port security.

The OP is from February 24 and hasn't commented after original post.

Thank you OP for sharing your experience. Sorry about what happened to you.

To all: A 3rd round of free at-home covid tests was authorized for a total of 16 per residential address. I'm bringing them for future cruises even though after several cruises (latest one on May 1st) I've managed to avoid catching it.

https://www.covid.gov/tests

Interesting thread gave me some ideas... Would this work?

Buy the SodaStream® Diet Fountain Variety Pack (diet cola, diet root beer, etc). Pour the mixer into the type of container that is allowed on board (use your imagination).

Then mix it with club soda from the bar.

45 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

A picture is worth a thousand words. MCT Pier 88 - Sunday, May 8th, 2022 around 11:40 am -frail & elderly passengers waiting to board the Norwegian Joy was doing their share … others, 😳 see for yourselves & decide.

It is. Thanks for the pictures. Disheartening.