KevinKruzer

They are pretty steady........until a sale occurs- and prices go UP! :rolleyes:

Folks,

This is what I am talking about......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346716/Airline-pilot-holds-plane-family-murdered-toddler.html

Its a choice. No, RCCL doesnt "have" to do anything, but they can if they want.

You can google the above linked story. It was in hundreds of papers, on cnn/fox/abc etc.....

There are examples within the story of both sides of this issue in that the airport wouldnt accomodate him with jumping the line (they didnt have too) but read what southwest did for them (they didnt have too and nothing was their "fault", they just did it because they wanted too and thought it was the right thing).

Frankly, I am shocked that RCCL didnt put this to bed with their statement (ie offering the $ back and good wishes to dying man) to the TV station AFTER the story aired rather than doubling down on sticking to their policy and broadening the controversy.

This thread needs a new title.

 

DYING MAN'S FRIENDS SCREW UP HIS DREAM TRIP

Sadly, it happened. Too bad their sense of responsibility and willingness to help their friend plan for his trip weren't as great as their generosity.

Maybe a new title would clarify the situation.

Judy

If he only had "perfect" mistake-free freinds like Judy, he would have had his dream cruise. :rolleyes:

Too bad his friends were only "generous"....

Thankfully, RCCL's 8 plus billion revenue stream wont be hit with that massive 997 dent.

So again... you're saying the people that screwed up should not be held accountable and instead hold the cruise line responsible because they are following the law? This does not make sense to me.

 

I'm not saying "screw him"... Royal offered something to him to try and help the situation. That's already going above and beyond. So again... they've done 110% instead of 125% even though they were not the ones to put him in that situation in the first place.

 

The people that screwed him (either intentionally or not) are the ones that were SUPPOSED to be helping him. (By making sure he had the appropriate travel documentation AND making sure he had travel insurance especially considering his medical conditions.)

 

You ask what should be done going forward? In my opinion whomever it was that was supposed to be helping him with this cruise should be the ones to come up with an alternative for him since THEY were the ones that failed him (again intentionally or not). Again, the cruise line gave an option that they did not have to offer in the first place. In my opinion, you're expecting too much here for a situation that's not even their fault.

Get the facts straight. Neither I or anyone else (the few of us on this side of issue) have EVER suggested RCCL should break the law. I have REPEATED over and over that RCCL was RIGHT in not letting him board without proper ID (Fed law).

What I have said is that in this specific case, the right thing to do would have been to refund the 997 dollars. Companies in the service/entertainment business make exceptions/accommodations everyday on a case-by-case basis.

It's a strange decision to draw a line in the sand (Policy is a policy), with a sick, dying man (stage 4 lung/brain cancer) whose friends pitched in for this cruise and it was a featured story on a TV news program?

You didn't I just wanted folks to know where I was coming from. :)

 

Well if it's sending the guy on a cruise that's the PR issue we are talking about then ya I agree. Send him on another cruise and make sure the press and maybe even a news magazine show videos it and runs a story.

Apparently, per the TV story, he is asking for the refund because his health has declined to the point where his doctor wont sign off on a cruise, so he would spend the $ on a resort or something for a few days.

A couple of thoughts here. Many of them are in line with what others have expressed.

 

* Whomever was supposed to be helping this person with planning the cruise certainly came up short here. It's the responsibility of each traveler to have the appropriate identification available. If I was standing in line at the airport and I failed to bring my ID, it's not the fault of the airline that I was not let aboard the flight. On an upcoming cruise, I'm bringing a friend's 70+ year old parents with us that never travel anywhere. I'm working with them to make sure they have their passports taken care of several months before we leave so that we don't have problems.

 

* The cruise contract clearly states there is nothing due back to a passenger that fails to come with appropriate identification. RCL went above and beyond offering a future credit.

 

* The fact the person is either unable or unwilling to take advantage of that offer is unfortunate but not the fault of RCL.

 

* Some individuals are arguing that RCL should have given a full refund. My question is why? Regardless of the situation the person is in, the people who were helping him failed to make sure he was ready to cruise. Because those people failed him, it's now the cruise line's responsibility to make it right? (Side note... the cruise line DID in fact make an effort to accommodate him, but it was not good enough.)

 

So in essence what we're arguing about here is the cruise line followed the rules and went 110% above and beyond what they were supposed to do here instead of going 125% above and beyond.

 

This brings to mind a saying that I've heard used elsewhere many times...

 

 

Whomever should have been helping this person plan the cruise should be the one to give the person the money for the cruise to do something else he might enjoy doing. They were the ones who failed him in this case.

Wow.

Some people make mistakes..... I have no idea who booked it or helped him. Maybe they were well intentioned, but unseasoned travelers themselves, maybe not. They cant rewind the clock and do it over. So the question is what to do now going forward...

I say- the 8 billion dollar company can and should make an exception for this guy not because they did something wrong, but it is the right thing to do. Most here apparently disagree and say screw him, the policy is the policy, no exceptions.....

I haven't cruised RC for 5 years so I am hardly a cheerleader here and sure they could have sucked it up but honestly do you really think that in this day and age reading about a company that followed the rules regarding who is going in and out of the country is really bad going to be bad press? It's a little reassuring to me actually.

I don't recall calling you a cheerleader :confused:

RCCL was RIGHT in not letting him board due to improper ID as its not their call (FED law). No one is arguing that.

This is a sad story but making RCL the bad guy seems unfair here. I'm not sure how anyone could think that they could leave the country without at least a birth certificate. Also, since he was ill and not a traveler the others who were travelers should have recommended travel insurance for medical and cancellation and should have told him that he should have a passport to travel because that way he could come home easier if he got ill or something happened at home and he needed to get back. Someone dropped the ball here and instead of accepting responsibility they let RCL get hung out to dry for simply following the rules.

RCCL chose to be the "bad guy". Life isn't fair. They were put in a position thru no fault of their own.......but for $997 could have avoided it.

Policies / rules are bent & broken evvvverrrrrydayyyy by RCCL and other companies in the name of customer satisfaction & retention and are done so in varying amounts depending upon specifics of each case. For the life of me I cannot understand those that defend RCCL in standing by their policy in this specific case especially AFTER the guy was vetted and verified by a local FL tv station.

Very bad PR. Very bad judgement by a mid-level mgr.

why? its his own fault and if they bent over backwards for every sob story out there they and every other cruise line would be out of business on a month.

 

newsflash: beings sick is not an excuse to be granted special treatment or to have policy ignored. no sympathy for the situation whatsoever especially since a supposed prior cruiser who SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER didn't give the 'non well traveled' individual the correct information.

This "sob story"? Wow. Another compassionate charmer.... :rolleyes:

Apparently, this "sob story" was confirmed as authentic, not a faker, with stage 4 lung/brain cancer.

Would you really have a problem if say the CEO of an 8 Billion dollar company decided to refund $997 to a man with weeks-to-months left on earth?

Nope. I never suggested that everyone will start making up stories. Go back and read my post again.

The problem with providing a refund is that then others that show up without proper documentation and are denied boarding might think they are entitled to a full refund, perhaps even making up stories for sympathy.

Ehh, I think you did. :confused:

The problem with providing a refund is that then others that show up without proper documentation and are denied boarding might think they are entitled to a full refund, perhaps even making up stories for sympathy.

You are the 2nd person to suggest that everyone will start doing it (making up stories).

I don't believe that.

Also, they are making exceptions to policies EVERYDAY with people over all sorts of things....its what businesses do to keep customers satisfied.

In this specific case- we KNOW the man is legitimately dying of brain/lung cancer. A very curious case to draw a line in the sand suddenly.

But, hey- it can work to RCCL advantage in future- 1st words out of mouth to disgruntled customers is- "hey we dont even accomodate dying customers, so why should we help you......:rolleyes:

I love seeing stuff like this on forums. A member posts something controversial and then pulls a cowardly disappearing act.

 

 

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I agree. They seemed to disappear. But, they did post a link so the story appears legit.

Imagine if RCCL reacted differently and a poster appeared with a post saying RCCL is the greatest and posted a link to one of those happy tv stories that are often at the end of a newscast- suppose they bent over backwards and gave the guy not only his money back, but paid all expenses for a trip of a lifetime that he COULD take (apparently DR wouldnt approve cruise now)?

Imagine how much good will & PR that the 8 billion dollar plus RCCL would have gotten out of that.....

I work for a big company too. Often mid managers dont know when to pick their battles and PR wounds are often self inflicted.

On any given week there are probably a number of passengers that get turned away from their cruise because of improper Identification.

 

Everyone of those people also have a background story that deserves special attention.

 

Nobody's story is more important than the others.

 

Why should he get a refund instead of all the others just because they stick him on the news?

 

 

 

You are right that there are others who make mistakes with documentation and get turned away.......but RCCL likely bends over backwards (you know- good ole fashioned customer service) to ensure that they can book in the future (they like to have customers want to return).

Why should he get a refund instead of all the others? Really?

Because unlike all of the others who made a mistake, he won't be around to go on another cruise. He is DYING.

If you arent willing to make an exception and insist on playing hardball with a man who is dying from brain & lung cancer.....and for only 1 grand cash- I dont know what to say.....

Unbelievable.

Did you actually watch the linked news story?

How can RCCL NOT refund the guys money (lol- a whopping $1000) after that story came out?

Do they WANT to be known as the company that stiffs dying cancer patients for a few bucks?

No, RCCL didnt do anything wrong by not allowing him to board the ship without proper documentation- as its FED rules, not theirs.

But, after seeing his story be legitimized and played out in media- the fact that they stuck to their guns is beyond defensible.

Mid managers at RCCL (and other companies) break rules/policies ROUTINELY for good will, good PR, good customer accomodations etc....

The fact that they wont refund a dying cancer patients measly grand is absolutely shameful in my opinion.

The tips that are collected for dining staff are pooled and shared with staff in Windjammer.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT :D

Although I only have a few dozen posts, I have lurked around here for YEARS!

While I am here, I just want to acknowledge this poster (clarea / Bob).

I have read tons of useful stuff from you over the years.

If there was a CC Top Poster Award or Most Helpful- you would win it hands down....

Thank you.

Back to regular scheduled programming..... arguments about tipping, dress codes, drink packages, etc.

I can tell you that the staff do not understand why people are taking the gratuities off on the first day of the cruise. They feel like they haven't been given a chance to give good service. This is what we were told by one of the guest relations people that we spoke to at another area. I do think it is making a difference on Voyager and Explorer to the atmosphere on board between passengers and staff..

Whoever said that was wrong and sounds entitled. And if its going to "make a difference to the atmosphere btw passengers and staff" then it proves that point.... They need a better attitude.

Why assume that removing tips means someone DOESNT want to tip? It could, sure, but it could also mean they want to have control and tip MORE than the standard. Wait till you are stiffed by a person and get mad at that person. Assuming guilt on someone that has already paid their fair share of the overhead to get on board is not a good attitude.

I am willing to bet that for every cheapskate that takes his tips off and doesnt tip- there are 10 people who make up for it by tipping above and beyond the prepaid gratuities and/or recommended tip levels.

I am not interested in helping people dodge their tax obligations.

Me neither....

Do people really think low salary/high tip earners are reporting ALL of their cash tips to the IRS? :D

Auto Tipping rant

Fwiw, to date, I have never had my prepaid tips removed.....and have always given extra tip$ to MDR waiter/asst waiter & room steward (except for 1 room steward for good reason), but, I do understand those who insist on tipping the old fashioned way and would like prepaid tips to be removed.

There is no denying that the overall level of service has been dropping ever so slowly over the years. Cruising RCCL (or others) today is not the value it was 3, 5 or 10 years ago, imho.

Like I stated above, I have always gone along with the prepaid gratuities, and again, except with 1 individual on 1 cruise, ended up forking out more dollars (old habits die hard), I really don't agree with the PRINCIPLE of it.... "Tipping" to me is something that I choose to give to those who give my family good service, *personally*. In no other areas of trade do I know of where you pay your gratuity based on good service up front.

Imagine walking into a stadium for a sporting event, for example (where you will presumably get seated by usher, buy food, drinks, etc.... and have to pay the ticket taker $50 that will be "distributed" to all staff) really?

Human nature tells me that many workers will NOT work as hard knowing that the auto tipping "scheme" assures a certain virtually guaranteed revenue stream. The top "professionals" will still work as hard as ever, but not the "average" worker (ie majority). They will be content with what the auto-tipping scheme will filter down to them.... And there is evidence to support that- most people report that service has been slowly trending down over the last 3+ years...... while the discussion on this topic has trended from "hey, cool, we can simply prepay everything for convenience" to "you are cheap if you don't give more to these poor workers".... So its beginning to simply look like a win-win revenue enhancement for the cruise & its employees.

If they were really honest about it initially- they would have said "thank you dear customers for your generosity in prepaying gratuities for our hard workers (nevermind the interest RCCL will earn off tens of thousands who prepay gratuities each month & also allows them to boost their "revenue projections" for stockholders..) we no longer need to distribute those tip envelopes since you prepaid" ... Oh but they still do distribute those...... And most of us feel guilty and stuff even MORE money in them (above & beyond those "recommended" amounts that we paid month(s) ago).... And perhaps those who bucked the system and insisted on NOT prepaying feel like they have to put more $ in their envelope because they were on the "list"of bad customers distributed and/or posted by RCCL lol....Maybe that WAS the plan- win/win for them (RCCL) and them (employees).

Like politicians, RCCL (and others) have gone overboard (no pun intended) on extracting revenue from our wallets without returning anything in trade.

End of rant.

Without a doubt do string ray city with snorkel fantastic.;)

I 2nd this..... ;) This was my favorite excursion. It totally exceeded my expectations.

I don't know why but when someone asks how to get automatic tips off their account for any reason it translates to me as they don't want to pay tips and are using these boards to figure out how to do it. Just my humble opinion.

 

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I don't know why either.... When I see this I don't think they are "cheap" or trying to get out of it (who am I to judge people I don't know), I assume they are "old school". And I understand the principal behind wanting to tip cash and do it AFTER the great service and directly to those who served them directly. It worked for many years.....

I personally like the convenience of the pre-paid tips and end up tipping a little more to select individuals.

no. want to fly? pay up front weeks if not months before.

want concert tickets? pay up front weeks if not months before. want to cruise? gotta be paid in full up front 45 days before.

 

in my opinion there are 2 kinds of people who gripe about having to prepay grats:

 

the ones who fully intend to stiff the staff due to cheapness or some sort of self imposed justification( right or wrong) to do so, and the ones that want the entire world to know how wonderful and generous they are by handing out envelopes in person on the last day. it is not about rewarding the staff, it's about rewarding THEMSELVES. making them feel better about their actions.

 

I sued to know someone that went around all the time telling everyone what a great Christian she was( in those exact words) because she did this that and the other thing( Oh, I volunteered at the soup kitchen today! I am such a great person feeding all those homeless people!) it was all about making her look good, not actually doing good.

our last cruise we ended up eating in the MDR exactly once. the rest of the time was elsewhere. never even crossed my mind to remove the tips. those tips also cover breakfast and lunch wherever you eat. same staff serve in the MJ as well as MDR.

 

and yes that meant I paid the gratuity part of the specialty dining fee on top of extra AS WELL AS the day's cut of the prepaid grat.

:confused:

Hmmmm..... How ironic.

All booked on freedom of the seas next 6/22 for western Caribbean, celebrating my 25th wedding anniversary along with my 3 kids (23,21, 16). We are very excited but of course a bit nervous. We are mid ship deck 8. Appreciate any guidance anyone can offer

Nothing at all to be nervous about....you will have a great time. The great thing about a cruise is that there is so much to do (casino, bars w/ bands, bars w/ trivia, bingo, pools, food anytime, spa, rock climbing, surf sim., arcade, mini golf, fitness ctr, shows, shopping, etc....) and you can do it all or NOTHING at all..... and have fun either way!

The Freedom is a great ship. My family did the Western Caribbean itinerary this past summer. I highly recommend the Sting Ray City/Snorkeling excursion. And don't miss the 70's disco party on Friday night (I think) on the promenade. Awesome time. The ice show is cool, too.

Most people (myself included) have never had any problems with sea sickness, but since its your first, if you do get motion sickness in cars or planes I would get a patch for the first day.

I would also suggest flying in the day before you embark. Coco Beach Shuttle is a good shuttle operator that will take you from Orlando Intl to hotel in Cocoa Beach area and pick you up at the ship and take you back to Orlando Intl.

I stayed at the Hilton Cocoa Beach and it was fine. They had a shuttle to the ship (3 miles or so). We got there early and was on the ship in about 30 minutes or so.... Smoothest embarkation ever.

I know I will probably get flamed for this post, but.... Why would someone want to remove tips?

It could be just a traditional view of what "tips" are all about and/or the principle of it.

If it is automatically entered on the bill and pre-paid, it isn't a tip anymore. It is a service fee. And many of us STILL pay above and beyond to those that touch us directly (steward, waiter/asst waiter, etc).

Maybe that was the point. So now we are tipping before AND after...what a deal :D

What about the future? Perhaps it is only a matter of time until the % of prepaid is raised. Next year? 5 years from now, etc.... eventually could it be raised to 17%? Then 20%? If so, you can bet service will deteriorate, if only slightly, if this is a slippery slope that the industry has put itself on.

**fwiw, I prepay AND reward more...and have no intention of removing my tips but I understand that there are legit reasons for OTHERS and I will not judge them as stiffers.... unless they are PROVEN to be so.

I always tip extra because the suggested gratuities are less than I gave before they changed. Also a thing called inflation. Several waiters have told us how people would not eat in dining room on last night. Just a certain amount of lowlifes everywhere you go. I see people put $1 in the collection at church. My father used to put $1 in collection......in 1950.

Wow....

So, without knowing any of the people, let alone their personal circumstances, whether it be on a cruise or in a church- you feel comfortable in judging and labeling them??

Yes, there are a certain amount of lowlifes...... as you say...:rolleyes:

I don't think you're "not the best writer in the world".

 

Your posts have been very well written and clear.

 

Thanks and keep on posting :-)

Thanks for the kind words.

That's a beauty you have on your avatar. ;)