Solution to QM2 smoking arguments

[dasailors]

Do you really think that the 21% of the population who smoke are equally distributed throughout the whole population... I wonder what the percentage of holiday camp smokers are?

 

However many they would of course have to smoke outside as we in Britain have rules that protect the workforce from toxic chemicals.

 

Everyone is entitled to work without risk to their health, as I am to holiday without risk to mine.

 

Are you suggesting that the 21% of the worlds population are NOT "equally distributed"?

Do you mean these people are segregated somewhere? Er, like Africa or someplace?

 

What exactly are "holiday camp smokers"?

 

You may have that rule in Britain, but I'm not in Britain and neither is the ship for most of it's time.

 

Yes you are entitled to a holiday without risk, that's why the OP is suggesting a "smoking bar" IE one you don't have to go into.

[heywood]

Reading these posts, I have come to realise that when my husband and I travel on QM2, we must be really boring (to others). We have a lovely time, but as we don't drink much, we rarely spend time in the bars. Similarly, as we don't gamble, we tend to spend little time in the casino.

I have just told my husband about the various comments here re smokers/non-smokers and he reiterated what I was thinking- we don't notice smokers or smoking. (Apart from when we have seen people sitting outside on the deck late at night looking rather forlorn).

I can understand re the 'fun' side of smoking. Our cousin in Ireland, where smoking in public places stopped before UK, said that her social life had improved after the ban when she met so many people outside the pub rather than in it :D

Personally, I don't like the way smoke clings to clothing, but I do like the smell of pipe tobacco and cigars and I think I understand the needs of a smoker through family members and friends. I do think that there should be somewhere which is as acceptable as those places reserved for non-smokers.

On the other hand, I would not like a stateroom which had the smell of smoke, either from previous occupants or neighbours. Sorry everyone.

[Boytjie]

Well, one certain deviation would be age. I believe the average age of Cunard's passengers would be quite a lot older than that of the general population. And I would think a great many of those passengers grew up in the days when smoking was a good thing. And that many continue to smoke. Don't you agree?

 

No.

 

Take a look at this:

 

Smokers by age

 

In Great Britain, the highest rates of smoking are in the 20-24 age-group, with 31% of people this age recorded as smokers. The prevalence of smoking then declines with age to 12% of people aged 60 and over smoking ( Figure 6.2). 10 The difference between the age groups has historically been smaller and has increased as the result of higher smoking cessation rates amongst older people. For example, in 1974 34% of people aged 60 and over smoked and this has more than halved to 12% in 2007, whereas the decrease for people aged 20-24 over the same time period is from 48% to 31%.

Source: http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/types/lung/smoking/index.htm#age

[Boytjie]

A very good point, smokers are in indeed the minority but given that fact that 21% of the population smoke that must also mean that 21% of QM2 passengers smoke, so using your stats more than 500 passengers smoke, and I would imagine these 500 or so passengers would like to have a bar in which they could chat and smoke

 

But Cunards "smoking problem" solution is to restrict these 500 or so smokers to a room (Churchills) that has seating for 14 people and a capacity of around 30 people........... Or they can stand outside.

 

Hardly seems right to me.

 

Where did I say smokers should not have a venue? I would agree that Chruchill's may be too small. But don't throw in the Commodore. ;)

[zoomerica]

So long as I retain my balcony, QM2 can count on my business.

 

How excited I was when the CC was thrown to us! :D

 

The Winter Garden idea is the best yet. Certainly that should be out of the way. Most I have heard from stumble across the place, only to be offended by the decor...never to return.

 

It is nice to see a smoking debate be just that, as opposed to a shouting match. :)

[heywood]

Mmm, I quite like to eat my lunch in the Winter Gardens and our stateroom on our next trip is below there ...so as long as the smoke doesn't travel below deck, I can cope with that.;)

On a serious note, which is not meant to be controversial, I wonder if the statistics quoted by Boytjie are as a result of older people having stopped/reduced their smoking habit due to smoking related illnesses or personal contact with such illnesses.

[southwestie]

So long as I retain my balcony, QM2 can count on my business.

 

How excited I was when the CC was thrown to us! :D

 

The Winter Garden idea is the best yet. Certainly that should be out of the way. Most I have heard from stumble across the place, only to be offended by the decor...never to return.

 

It is nice to see a smoking debate be just that, as opposed to a shouting match. :)

 

 

I agree so far the shouters are out of earshot and this discussion is just that, yes the winter garden would be a good venue for smokers, has a bar, piano and with all the fun people should make a great place.

[southwestie]

Mmm, I quite like to eat my lunch in the Winter Gardens and our stateroom on our next trip is below there ...so as long as the smoke doesn't travel below deck, I can cope with that.;)

On a serious note, which is not meant to be controversial, I wonder if the statistics quoted by Boytjie are as a result of older people having stopped/reduced their smoking habit due to smoking related illnesses or personal contact with such illnesses.

 

 

A very good point, we should look it up.

 

well its getting on here in the uk, I started to read this thread this morning and it is now late in the evening, the thread is still here and it has been most enjoyable, I will look again the morning, it really shows that even a smoking thread handled by the right people can be good.:) and stay

[MrandMrsBeee]

No.

 

Take a look at this:

Smokers by age

 

In Great Britain, the highest rates of smoking are in the 20-24 age-group, with 31% of people this age recorded as smokers. The prevalence of smoking then declines with age to 12% of people aged 60 and over smoking ( Figure 6.2). 10 The difference between the age groups has historically been smaller and has increased as the result of higher smoking cessation rates amongst older people. For example, in 1974 34% of people aged 60 and over smoked and this has more than halved to 12% in 2007, whereas the decrease for people aged 20-24 over the same time period is from 48% to 31%.

Source: http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/types/lung/smoking/index.htm#age

 

 

This would make a lot of sense, smokers die as they get older as did my Father a few moths after reaching 70.

[VirginCruiser II]

Should redesign the winter gardens into a new smoking bar with new ventilation and make good use of the area.

Im a non smoker and believe there should be areas onboard for smokers... my question is if not can we really expect passengers to not smoke at all for cruises that last for many sea days.

Smokers had there bolthole by the dartboard in the Golden Lion and were easily avoidable.

Fred.

 

Unfortunately their smoke wasn't.

[southwestie]

This would make a lot of sense, smokers die as they get older as did my Father a few moths after reaching 70.

 

 

we have lost several members of our families and all a lot younger then 70 all from smoking,

[michael mac]

Doesn't mater if it's 400,500 or even 600 smoking passengers on the ship, most smokers don't like smoking in there cabin also Churchill's would be crowded if there was more than 15 people in it, maybe Cunard will start issuing tickets from the Pursers office with allocated times on it like the planetarium.

 

I still think it would be reasonable to request that Cunard at least make the deck area that your permitted to smoke in a bit more than an ashtray on the bulkhead (wall) maybe a seating area thats available 24 hours a day, somewhere sheltered from the elements that you can excess without getting your head blown off, mid Atlantic.

 

The point is, if there was a similar number of a nameless European race were on board, Cunard would close of a public room on some evenings and daytime so they can have entertainment in there own language, and all smokers get is some were to stub out a butt outside at the stern of the ship. I can't remember seeing any posts from anyone complaining that a public room was of limits because it was in use by what Cunard called a private function, what about arranging a smoking function?

[The Real PM]

No.

 

Take a look at this:

Smokers by age

 

In Great Britain, the highest rates of smoking are in the 20-24 age-group, with 31% of people this age recorded as smokers. The prevalence of smoking then declines with age to 12% of people aged 60 and over smoking ( Figure 6.2). 10 The difference between the age groups has historically been smaller and has increased as the result of higher smoking cessation rates amongst older people. For example, in 1974 34% of people aged 60 and over smoked and this has more than halved to 12% in 2007, whereas the decrease for people aged 20-24 over the same time period is from 48% to 31%.

Source: http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/types/lung/smoking/index.htm#age

Thank you for that. You are good, do you know that? :) I would never have suspected that it is the most senior of us that are the ones that have lead us to our current smoking status. Well, good for them! I hope they aren't those vocal do gooders that want to thrust all their goodness down our throats. I am sure they aren't. They are far too gentile for that!

[MrandMrsBeee]

Are you suggesting that the 21% of the worlds population are NOT "equally distributed"?

 

Correct

 

Do you mean these people are segregated somewhere? Er, like Africa or someplace?

 

Very possibly I think BAT have a lot of insentives on that Er Continent

 

What exactly are "holiday camp smokers"?

 

People who smoke in holiday camps.

 

You may have that rule in Britain, but I'm not in Britain and neither is the ship for most of it's time.

 

We do have that rule in an attempt to protect health at work, I am aware that the ship is not here most of the time but the staff must have an employment contract somewhere, are you hoping it is somewhere where employment rules are more lax and are you hoping that Cunard would rather offer the staff that kind of employmeny contract?

 

Yes you are entitled to a holiday without risk, that's why the OP is suggesting a "smoking bar" IE one you don't have to go into.

 

A self service one?

[Ryancoke]

I am a non-smoker and I have no problems with smokers.

Last year, smoking was allowed in the Golden Lion on Queen Mary 2 so we just avoided the pub. There were plenty of other areas we could use.

Also, when I went for daily mile around the deck, I was not bothered by anyone's smoke on the deck.

Live and let live, I say.

Well put. As an ex-smoker (and some of us are fanatic in the extreme) I couldn't agree more. I might be able to handle pipe smoking. It reminds me of my grandad. Is it allowed in Churhills?

[Boytjie]

Thank you for that. You are good, do you know that? :)

 

Thank you!

 

You raised an very interesting question so I went back to the statistics site I found earlier. I was quite surprised by what I found!

[CruiserTed]

The following arguments for allowing smoking in the public rooms are spurious:

 

1) that smokers are being banned from the public rooms and relegated to the "crap" places. In fact, of course, smokers are not restricted at all - it is the smoking which is restricted. Further, there are no "crap" passenger spaces aboard the Cunard ships.

 

2) that perfume will be banned "next." In fact, perfume scent is not a poison gas and therefore not in any way parallel to tobacco smoke.

[michael mac]

The following arguments for allowing smoking in the public rooms are spurious:

 

1) that smokers are being banned from the public rooms and relegated to the "crap" places. In fact, of course, smokers are not restricted at all - it is the smoking which is restricted. Further, there are no "crap" passenger spaces aboard the Cunard ships.

 

2) that perfume will be banned "next." In fact, perfume scent is not a poison gas and therefore not in any way parallel to tobacco smoke.

 

 

Perfume scent not be a poison gas, but some strong perfumes can bring on Asthma attacks to some Asthma sufferers.

 

Also some people complain about the stale smell of smoke that you may get when in close quarters to someone that's recently had a cigarette, well they maybe have a point, but there's nothing worse than being near someone who smells of garlic supplements.

[Berserker]

The following arguments for allowing smoking in the public rooms are spurious:

 

1) that smokers are being banned from the public rooms and relegated to the "crap" places. In fact, of course, smokers are not restricted at all - it is the smoking which is restricted. Further, there are no "crap" passenger spaces aboard the Cunard ships.

 

2) that perfume will be banned "next." In fact, perfume scent is not a poison gas and therefore not in any way parallel to tobacco smoke.

 

The G32 is a "crap" space

 

There are many perfumes that would class as poisonous. Especially when used in the "more is more" style. My wife had a colleague who found perfume trigger something off. Bone idleness, my wife said, but there you are.

[Selfloadingcargo]

A very good point, we should look it up.

 

well its getting on here in the uk, I started to read this thread this morning and it is now late in the evening, the thread is still here and it has been most enjoyable, I will look again the morning, it really shows that even a smoking thread handled by the right people can be good.:) and stay

I too was surprised to see that this thread was still going!

 

Your comments are always interesting... Are you one of the moderators on this board? :)

[Berserker]

Your comments are always interesting... Are you one of the moderators on this board? :)

 

Only self appointed....

[dasailors]

For us, Cunard are history, we'll not use them any longer.

Does anyone know a cruiseline who have, at least, one inside bar where smoking is permitted?

We need a TA twice per year, New York-Southampton would be very good, can anyone help?.

Please, no anti-smoking raves, I'm just asking a simple question, thanks.

[garigoun]

The following arguments for allowing smoking in the public rooms are spurious:

 

1) that smokers are being banned from the public rooms and relegated to the "crap" places. In fact, of course, smokers are not restricted at all - it is the smoking which is restricted. Further, there are no "crap" passenger spaces aboard the Cunard ships.

 

A trifle pedantic in the context of the discussion.

 

A) . In fact I was not making an argument in favour of allowing smoking in public rooms. It was simply an observation that, as smokers pay the same as the rest of us they should have somewhere pleasant and comfortable to enjoy their habit.

B) With regard to crap passenger spaces on Cunard perhaps you never occupied one of the cheaper cabins on the sainted QE2. And if you ever see some poor smoker trying to get out of the icy wind or the rain on the tiny bit of outdoor space permitted to them then you would certainly consider that a crap space.

 

This is an intractable argument due to the firmly entrenched positions on both sides. I just think that there should be an element of fair play here somwhere. If you know that somewhere is going to be occupied, lawfully and within the ship's own rules, by smokers then stay away, don't go there and then complain about the smoke and the smell.. The smokers have to stay out of the non-smokers' areas while they smoke. Smokers are portrayed by the antis as selfish polluters and health hazards the antis are portrayed as hysterical killjoy fanatics. Specific instances can be found to support both viewpoints. e.g. one of my neighbours who makes his visitors smoke in the yard gets in his 4x4 to travel 150yds.

- LADEEEZ an GENNLMEN a little tolerance on both sides please.

 

Gari

[VirginCruiser II]

For us, Cunard are history, we'll not use them any longer.

Does anyone know a cruiseline who have, at least, one inside bar where smoking is permitted?

We need a TA twice per year, New York-Southampton would be very good, can anyone help?.

Please, no anti-smoking raves, I'm just asking a simple question, thanks.

 

 

...an inside bar where smoking is permitted? A TA twice per year New York-Southampton? Who-you-gonna-use? :D:D:D!!!

[southwestie]

I too was surprised to see that this thread was still going!

 

Your comments are always interesting... Are you one of the moderators on this board? :)

 

Thank you, I am not a moderator by a long way.

 

I really just think how nice to see this thread still running for 36 houes, beacause no-one has been nasty on it, a little heated now and then lol, .

 

what is really nice, is that so many newer member of this forum are able to have there say, so many have joined in , and not be blown down or blasted for saying something