Poker Tournaments on RCCL

[justtrustmedude]

The tournament they have going on right now on RCCL is a total rip off. They advertise that the winner gets a FREE CRUISE. Here is a rundown of what it costs to win the so called free cruise.

 

First of all, it costs $70 to buy in. (for that you get $1000 in chips) but anytime your stack gets to be less than $1000 you can buy another stack of $1000 for $40. Sounds great, right? It's not. By then the blinds have gone up so $1000 chips doesn't get you very far. It is also disheartening that every time you finally knock out a player, they just buy back in over and over again. Finally when the blinds are astronomically high, they give everyone at the table one more chance to re-buy which forces you to do so or else you'll likely be short stacked.

 

At the end of the tournament, all the money from all the players (buy-ins and endless re-buys) goes not to the winner, but to the casino. The winner of the tournament gets NOTHING. He or she gets a seat at the final table on the last day of the cruise. Well, there are lots of tournaments and most people, if they didn't win yet, they play again and again. Losing hundreds of dollars every time.

 

On the final day, the day of the big tournament. Every winner sits at the final table with the amount in chips that his table collected when he won. It may be completely unfair. On some tables, there are 9 players who each did a gazillion rebuys so that player comes to the table with, say, $30,000 in chips. On another table, people had already lost a lot of money and made a decision not to rebuy and so the winner on that table comes in with only $7000 in chips. There is an argument that the first player had to knock out more people who had more money so he must be better, but that's not necessarily true. If you get 9 very average players at a table at one time, someone is going to win eventually.

 

Some people play over and over again. A couple on our ship played in every tournament and never won a seat (kept coming in second or third). By the end of the cruise, they had EACH lost almost a thousand dollars to the tournament)

 

The big slap in the face comes when the final table starts, and the players are told that the winner gets a free cruise where they can play all the other winners for $15,000 in cash. The winner does not get ANY money at this tournament. On our cruise the second and third place winners got a VERY small payout. ($280 and $188 respectively) but both of the people who "won" that money had paid more than that in the course of the tournament, so they didn't really win, did they?

 

The first place winner, gets a "free cruise". Well since RCCL just kept all of the money from a weeks worth of tournaments (in our ship's case, it was well over $8,000) the ship is actually the big winner. The free cruise is a 5 day cruise in the caribbean. Inside cabin. In November. The winner is responsible for paying all the taxes, etc. Um, I looked up the exact cruise on the RCCL website and you can just buy the cruise for less than $400 per person.

 

I love playing poker on cruise ships. Many times, I've won the cost of the cruise at the poker table. I will stick to cash games from now on.

[neil_Young_Fan]

The tournament they have going on right now on RCCL is a total rip off. The real slap in the face happens when the final table starts, and the players are told that the winner gets a free cruise where they can play all the other winners for $15,000 in cash. The winner does not get ANY money at this tournament. On our cruise the second and third place winners got a VERY small payout. ($280 and $188 respectively) but both of the people who "won" that money had paid more than that in the course of the tournament, so they didn't really win, did they?

 

The first place winner, gets a "free cruise". Well since RCCL just kept all of the money from a weeks worth of tournaments (in our ship's case, it was well over $8,000) the ship is actually the big winner. The free cruise is a 5 day cruise in the caribbean. Inside cabin. In November. The winner is responsible for paying all the taxes, etc. Um, I looked up the exact cruise on the RCCL website and you can just buy the cruise for less than $400 per person.

 

First of all ... THANK YOU ... for writing this. It is very well written.

 

Second of all, THANK YOU ... I was considering playing in the tourney while on Mariner os last month. But since I was suspious from the short examplanation of the tourney by a dealer ... and it being my first cruise, I was enjoying activities all day long so I decided against it. In fact I didn't play poker at all on the ship.

NOW I KNOW, just play standard money games from now on.

 

WHAT A JOKE! It would be funny if several people on every cruise weren't getting their wallets raped.

 

I bet the boys in the board room have a good laugh over this dollar stat as it comes in on every cruise ... the Guy who thought it up must have gotten a promotion and a huge bonus. We can only hope that his bonus was a Free Alaskian Cruise ... in November.

 

A couple of questions ... the "WINNER" (ahmm) of the free cruise gets a free CABIN (a value of 2 fairs for about an $800 value) correct? I still call that a joke as a 5 day, carribean cruise in NOV is so limiting!

 

How much profit do you think RCL will make from this "tourney?" $8k per criuse x amount of ships doing it x per week = ? (take a shot at guestimating it ... I trust U dude!

[neil_Young_Fan]

I'm still wowing at the 2K lost by that couple ... what a shame!

 

I can only hope more people read this and TrustU to stay out.

[ltbw038]

Wow, it's sad to see the change in format. I won one of these tournaments and a free cruise last December on The Liberty. It was a great cruise and final. In the qualifier I was in there were no rebuys. Every winner sat down at the final table with equal chips, Sorry to her about the change. In addition the final tournament

was worth over 100k, not bad

Ben

[willyguy]

Well I won't to that now. Play the poker tournament. Thank a lot.

[Hackpba]

I played in one on the Liberty in April and won the first table play in for the final table at the end of the cruise. They said they would be having 8 other play in tables and the 9 winners would make up the final table.

 

When I arrive on the last night, I find that they only had 2 additional play in tables due to LACK OF INTEREST! So our final table was only 3 people and they offered us $1200 to split any way we wanted. I talked them into giving us all $300 each and then play a winner take all for the remaining $300. No free cruise offered as they stated they did not have enough entries. Of course I flop two pair about 30 minutes in and pushed a guy all in who rivers a bigger two pair. But I got $300 for my $70 entry.

 

Played the slot tourney (I hate slots) but was waiting on the final holdem table and had time to kill, finished 2nd and won $250! The winner of that tourney got a free cruise.

 

Played Bingo (I know and old folks game) but I got to yell BINGO and won a FREE CRUISE for two!! All in all a great 7 day cruise, great weather for the wife to lay out by the pool while I had fun in the casino!!

[Submariner]

Thanks. Ill stick to the cash games even though the rake is absurd! Captve audience I suspect

 

Any idea whether the Explorer has a Pokepro table or do they have a real live dealer?

[patseacruiser]

When I was on a year ago they had an electronic table but I understand from people on here they have a live dealer now. Atlantic City Taj Mahal just had the biggest bad beat jackpot at $677K I think it was. I put a lot of time in at that trying for it and the one day I decide to take off for the evening it gets hit.

[yellowsnow]

I am an avid poker player, and well... You should know what you are getting into. In tournaments with a lot of players, like this one, your chances to win are slim. The fact that at the end of the tournament the winner doesn't get the money is a big red flag. With any form of gambling, you should know that the odds are against you and increasing your bankroll does NOT increases your odds, it just allows you more plays to hope for a fluctuation on your favor. If losing money is something you are worried about I suggest you stay out of the casino entirely.

 

If I can budget a buy in and it won't be a big deal for me to lose the money I would definitely join. That is because I like playing poker. In any tournament with unlimited buy ins, you quickly reach a point where buying in is a dumb idea. Your chances at success are defined early on. Unlike say, slots, poker is a game that requires a bit of skill and early on in the tournament you will see all the casual players play the most ridiculous hands and lose quick. This is easy money for RCI if those bad players keep buying back in but this is what casinos do, they make a profit off your hopes to win big.

 

I personally would prefer to buy in a poker tournament than getting a massage for the same price at the spa, but then again, this is not a business for me. If it was, I would not be playing a tournament where winner doesn't get all the buy ins.

[Harmons_Florida]

I would have not been happy with those terms. I am OK with rebuys, but I think there has to be a limit. Also, going to the final table with unequal amounts of starting chips is not a good/ fair way to have a final tourney.

 

I played a cash game for a bit, but was blown away when the guy next to me asked the casino attendant how much the rake was - 7 PERCENT! WhOLey CRAP Batman!!!! I've never seen a rake that high!

[CannonFodder]

I would have not been happy with those terms. I am OK with rebuys, but I think there has to be a limit. Also, going to the final table with unequal amounts of starting chips is not a good/ fair way to have a final tourney.

 

I played a cash game for a bit, but was blown away when the guy next to me asked the casino attendant how much the rake was - 7 PERCENT! WhOLey CRAP Batman!!!! I've never seen a rake that high!

 

Actually, that percentage rake isn't bad. On the Las Vegas Strip, the normal rake in a low stakes hold'em game is generally 10% with a $3 or $4 cap - $1 for every $10 in the pot. In some rooms, there will also be a $0.50 or $1 jackpot drop. In Texas Hold-em, this tends to be the usual rake structure for Limit up to 3/6 and NL up to 2/5.

 

According to their website, Royal Caribbean's rake is also 10%. This isn't so much the problem. It's their caps. Small stakes limit games (up to 3/6) are raked to $5, 5/10 to $10, and larger limits to $15. No-Limit games are raked up to $15 ACROSS THE BOARD! Thus, a relatively small no-limit hold 'em game with 1/2 blinds, a max buy-in of $200, and aggressive/crazy/no-foldem players could end up being raked at $15 per hand!! In this case, unless you have some very generous players at the table who love to rebuy, the house will quickly end up with most of the money at the table.

[neil_Young_Fan]

Actually, that percentage rake isn't bad. On the Las Vegas Strip, the normal rake in a low stakes hold'em game is generally 10% with a $3 or $4 cap - $1 for every $10 in the pot. In some rooms, there will also be a $0.50 or $1 jackpot drop. In Texas Hold-em, this tends to be the usual rake structure for Limit up to 3/6 and NL up to 2/5.

 

According to their website, Royal Caribbean's rake is also 10%. This isn't so much the problem. It's their caps. Small stakes limit games (up to 3/6) are raked to $5, 5/10 to $10, and larger limits to $15. No-Limit games are raked up to $15 ACROSS THE BOARD! Thus, a relatively small no-limit hold 'em game with 1/2 blinds, a max buy-in of $200, and aggressive/crazy/no-foldem players could end up being raked at $15 per hand!! In this case, unless you have some very generous players at the table who love to rebuy, the house will quickly end up with most of the money at the table.

 

We understand standard rakes for casinos. We see the big building/bright lights. Logically, they weren't able to build all of this because they also hand out free money. Gambling is build for the casino to win.

 

But this Tourney ... with paid out 188, 280, and a "FREE CRUISE" ($800 value that for RCL ... isn't really $800 they are giving out ... it's only this opp. costs they they are giving in reality ... some of the $800 would have been profit.

 

OP says he feels about 8K was collected. For argument's sake, let's say they gave back 1K ... a +80% RAKE? Come on ... and I'm telling you the way they run the tourney, most don't realize how much buy-ins they will have to do to compete.

[Garyorient]

I hate re-buy tourneys and never ever play in them.

I am a tight player, always have been and re-buys just encourages players who like to fish.

 

For me, you have your chips.............play with them, play sensibly and stand or fall by your ability .......... and the little bit of luck that you need

[CannonFodder]

We understand standard rakes for casinos. We see the big building/bright lights. Logically, they weren't able to build all of this because they also hand out free money. Gambling is build for the casino to win.

 

But this Tourney ... with paid out 188, 280, and a "FREE CRUISE" ($800 value that for RCL ... isn't really $800 they are giving out ... it's only this opp. costs they they are giving in reality ... some of the $800 would have been profit.

 

OP says he feels about 8K was collected. For argument's sake, let's say they gave back 1K ... a +80% RAKE? Come on ... and I'm telling you the way they run the tourney, most don't realize how much buy-ins they will have to do to compete.

 

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I was responding to a post complaining about a 7% rake in the cash games and the poster I was replying to said that he had never seen a rake that high. My response was that a 7% rake in a live cash game isn't out of line. In fact, it's better than the rake percentage at most of the casinos on the Las Vegas Strip. The cap, however, is way out of line. Less so for the limit games, but very much so for the small-stakes no-limit games.

 

With regard to your argument about the tourney (which has nothing to do with my post by the way), except for the fact that one could consider it a fee for entertainment, I agree that from a poker standpoint, the fee structure is insane. Never disputed that and so you're preaching to the choir.

 

From an academic standpoint, the problem here is that THERE IS NO PRIZE POOL. In a typical tournament on land, the house fee is specified. In re-buy tourneys in particular, that fee can be rather large, often times 25-35% of the total entry fee (i.e. - $40+$20). However, generally, the house doesn't take a fee from the re-buys. In this case, not only is the fee structure entirely opaque, but it is apparent that it is ridiculously high as well. I'm sure that the is no flyer or anything which discloses what part of the entry fee and rebuy goes to the "prize pool" and what goes to the house. I wouldn't be surprised at all if nearly all of the re-buy money goes straight to the house. Let's face it, if they get as few as 15 entries (and no re-buys), they've probably already covered the cost of the "grand prize" and their costs. Everything else is profit, except for the token amount they throw back for 2nd and 3rd.

 

I might consider playing some cash games if the players are bad enough. However, since tournament results are much more volatile and the fee structure is crazy bad in this case, I don't think any amount of skill would be enough to overcome the fee structure in this tournament. You will not find me participating in the tournament.

[neil_Young_Fan]

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I was responding to a post complaining about a 7% rake in the cash games and the poster I was replying to said that he had never seen a rake that high. My response was that a 7% rake in a live cash game isn't out of line. In fact, it's better than the rake percentage at most of the casinos on the Las Vegas Strip. The cap, however, is way out of line. Less so for the limit games, but very much so for the small-stakes no-limit games.

 

With regard to your argument about the tourney (which has nothing to do with my post by the way), except for the fact that one could consider it a fee for entertainment, I agree that from a poker standpoint, the fee structure is insane. Never disputed that and so you're preaching to the choir.

 

From an academic standpoint, the problem here is that THERE IS NO PRIZE POOL. In a typical tournament on land, the house fee is specified. In re-buy tourneys in particular, that fee can be rather large, often times 25-35% of the total entry fee (i.e. - $40+$20). However, generally, the house doesn't take a fee from the re-buys. In this case, not only is the fee structure entirely opaque, but it is apparent that it is ridiculously high as well. I'm sure that the is no flyer or anything which discloses what part of the entry fee and rebuy goes to the "prize pool" and what goes to the house. I wouldn't be surprised at all if nearly all of the re-buy money goes straight to the house. Let's face it, if they get as few as 15 entries (and no re-buys), they've probably already covered the cost of the "grand prize" and their costs. Everything else is profit, except for the token amount they throw back for 2nd and 3rd.

 

I might consider playing some cash games if the players are bad enough. However, since tournament results are much more volatile and the fee structure is crazy bad in this case, I don't think any amount of skill would be enough to overcome the fee structure in this tournament. You will not find me participating in the tournament.

 

OK, I understand why you were going on about the rake then ... it seems out of line with the original point: The current tourney structure on RCL is a horrid ripe-off. I was starting to think you were somehow defending the ship's take (which only applied to their RAKE on standard poker games - tourney aside).

 

Now I see you agree with the OP Cannon ... gottcha.

[ltbw038]

You also get the entry into the final tournament held on the free cruise. The last one was about 140,000 in prize money, and was a good tournament. I really hope they drop the rebuy format, it does seem like a rip off

[bamelin]

I won't be taking part of the tournament ... as somebody else said, rebuy tourny's reward those with the biggest pockets, not those with the most skill.

 

Although in this case it sounds like the RCCL tourney potentially rewards nobody (not even the winners who may have spent more than what they "win")

[CannonFodder]

You also get the entry into the final tournament held on the free cruise. The last one was about 140,000 in prize money, and was a good tournament. I really hope they drop the rebuy format, it does seem like a rip off

 

Let's say that there are 100 entries/rebuys at $70/each (and from the sounds of it, that's on the low side). That's $7000. In the poster above's tourney, 2nd and 3rd got a total of $468. Let's say $500 in additional payouts on average. Figure the free cruise is worth $1000. Let's say that the entry fee for the final is worth about $1500 if we figure that there are 100 winners. (This, by the way, is probably very low - 21 ships (not counting Allure) with say 30 cruises is over 600 cruises. If only 50% have enough to send a "winner", then you've still got 300 winners.) If it's a $140,000 prize pool with 100 entries, it's effectively a $1400+$100.

 

Now, even with these very generous numbers, the house is taking $4000 out of a total $7000. That's roughly 57%!! That's effectively a $30+$40 with each new buy-in essentially a re-entry with a full entry fee rather than a re-buy. And it's likely even worse in actuality. Even the best professional player wouldn't find this tourney to be even close to positive EV! It makes a payday loan look like a good deal in comparison!

[Submariner]

Well stated. Unfortunately most casual players onboard dont pick up on this and are just happy to play any type of tourney regardless of how - EV it is.

 

The cruiseline has no incentive to change their practice... :mad:

 

Sticking with the cash games and (hopefully) playing with the donkeys...

[01Sweetpea]

Too bad they changed the format.

 

DH played on the Liberty last year. Took him 2 different tries to make the final table. Alot of the people played multiple games to make it to the final table, and DH knew most of the people at the final from playing against them during the week.

 

They did NOT have re-buys and everyone came into the final table with EQUAL chips. There were enough players for the free cruise, which then was a 7 night Caribbean on a specific poker tournament cruise.

 

Unfortunately DH did NOT win. :(

[TheBuick]

Thanks very much for the heads up. My daughter and I were looking forward to the poker tournament --- NOT going to play now!

 

Thanks again! :)

[traveling1969]

That isn't the only tounament offered. There are typically several offered with a $50 or $100 buy-in. I agree that the "free cruise" tournaments are a rip. Never have, never will.

[Poorplaya]

WOW :eek: I had no idea this was how they ran tournaments, as I was looking at playing in one for sure while on my cruise in December. I will be sure to stick to cash games on the ship, atleast if I do win, I will actually walk away with cash in my hand and no a free cruise that I paid double for in the long run. Thanks again for the great info.

[traveling1969]

WOW :eek: I had no idea this was how they ran tournaments, as I was looking at playing in one for sure while on my cruise in December. I will be sure to stick to cash games on the ship, atleast if I do win, I will actually walk away with cash in my hand and no a free cruise that I paid double for in the long run. Thanks again for the great info.

There are plenty of "regular" tounaments as well so don't despair. Usually, the top 2 are paid (payoffs depend on the buy-in and number of players. Bon Voyage to all!

[dsrn99]

I played on the EOS in December 2009. Things must have changed because it was nothing like what the OP is describing. Buy-ins were 100. and there were no re-buys. I made it to the final table-they werent giving away a cruise, but cash. I placed second and won 700. First place took 1000. I thought that was a pretty good take :rolleyes: