Formal or Informal

[jackdiamond]

Celebrity's definition of proper attire for Formal night includes a dinner jacket and slacks. And, . . . there is absolutely no mention of ties being required.

 

 

 

I think perhaps you are mistaking a dinner jacket for a sports jacket. They are vastly different. A dinner jacket is formal wear. Normally white. The tie is understood in formal attire.

You are correct.

[brentp]

I think perhaps you are mistaking a dinner jacket for a sports jacket. They are vastly different. A dinner jacket is formal wear. Normally white. The tie is understood in formal attire.

 

Maybe this is your definition, likely based on traditions from the UK/Europe. Definitions vary between geographies, individuals, . . . and have changed over time. There are many modern dinner jackets marketed that are to be worn without ties and available in many colors other than Black or White.

 

Back to my point - no one person has the definitive word on what someone else's definition should be.

 

Enjoy your cruise - I will. :)

[tally10]

I love the formal evenings and look forward to seeing the many elegant dresses worn by many of the guests. I enjoy dressing up for the few nights that are formal, and many evening dresses these days are easily packed, (unless you go princess fu-fu style), why not enjoy these evenings and stop trying to change things, sometimes tradition is best kept the way it is, too many things are changing for the worse. Those husbands worried about a tux, it is acceptable on these evenings for men to wear a dark suit.

 

Glad to hear that you love the formal evenings and dressing up in elegant dresses and tuxedos, etc. I have no objections to that. But you have to understand,

that not everyone enjoys it. Before you say "chose another cruise line" or "go with NCL," we love Celebrity and everything about it, EXCEPT playing dress up. The idea floated on this thread about having one dining room for those who enjoy the whole formal thing and one for those wishing to dress smart casually would really be welcomed if it is feasible to the cruise line. Otherwise, you will always see men in tuxes, suits, and yes, sport coats in the MDR on formal nights.

[junglejane]

Maybe this is your definition, likely based on traditions from the UK/Europe. Definitions vary between geographies, individuals, . . . and have changed over time. There are many modern dinner jackets marketed that are to be worn without ties and available in many colors other than Black or White.

 

Back to my point - no one person has the definitive word on what someone else's definition should be.

 

Enjoy your cruise - I will. :)

 

Wasn't it Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca who made the white dinner jacket an iconic look? I do agree that Celebrity's dess code is refering to the traditional dinner jacket. What would be the point of a dress code if all definitions are subjective? That being said, I'm satisfied if people look like they're making an effort to make the night special, even if they're not in technical compliance.

 

As for the OP's suggestion that first seating be kept casual, I wouldn't like that. We have kids so we always book first seating. But we also enjoy formal nights. Our kids actually enjoy it even more than we do.

[Ma Bell]

Glad to hear that you love the formal evenings and dressing up in elegant dresses and tuxedos, etc. I have no objections to that. But you have to understand,

that not everyone enjoys it. Before you say "chose another cruise line" or "go with NCL," we love Celebrity and everything about it, EXCEPT playing dress up. The idea floated on this thread about having one dining room for those who enjoy the whole formal thing and one for those wishing to dress smart casually would really be welcomed if it is feasible to the cruise line. Otherwise, you will always see men in tuxes, suits, and yes, sport coats in the MDR on formal nights.

 

 

Sorry to hear that you don't enjoy "playing dress up". We have no objections to that either. The difference is we deal with things the way they are and don't try to change them to suit our selfish wishes. When we don't care to dress up we don't find it necessary to choose another cruiseline either. We just choose another venue for dining on Formal Nights. The specialty restaurants are Smart Casual, the buffet area is open and it's sometimes nice to dine in the cabin. You have to understand that it's just the polite thing to do. There are plenty of smart casual nights to enjoy in the MDR.:)

[junglejane]

Sorry to hear that you don't enjoy "playing dress up". We have no objections to that either. The difference is we deal with things the way they are and don't try to change them to suit our selfish wishes.

 

Whoa. I think you're coming on a little strong here, Ma Bell. This thread is very long so I may have missed something, but I don't think Tally10 said she was going to violate the dress code. She just wishes some things were different. That's not selfish.

 

It's been said a thousand times on these threads, but the cruise industry is changing. "The way things are" isn't really a constant. Celebrity will continue to evolve to meet market demands. When enough consumers want something, the market responds. That's not selfishness, that's capitalism.

[brentp]

Wasn't it Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca who made the white dinner jacket an iconic look? I do agree that Celebrity's dess code is refering to the traditional dinner jacket. What would be the point of a dress code if all definitions are subjective? That being said, I'm satisfied if people look like they're making an effort to make the night special, even if they're not in technical compliance.

 

As for the OP's suggestion that first seating be kept casual, I wouldn't like that. We have kids so we always book first seating. But we also enjoy formal nights. Our kids actually enjoy it even more than we do.

 

Probably was Bogart.

 

As for interpretation on what they meant, . . . in my opinion, . . . when Celebrity combines "Dinner Jacket with Slacks" (a casual trouser) versus "Dinner Jacket with Dress or Suit pants", . . . they are accepting of a less formal approach to your attire. The important thing - is that each person needs to decide what this means to them, . . . and Celebrity gets to determine the minimum standard and can ask those whose interpretation is lower than the minimum to leave. Its not up to any of us to judge others.

 

Here's one for you, . . . This is the "dinner jacket" the British press reported that John Daly worn to the champions dinner at this years British Open. I wonder how long before we start to see this on formal night? Funny thing is, they poked fun at Daly, . . . but how about the guy in Red?

 

I'm not suggesting I could or would wear this (I would NOT), . . . but isn't variety in life generally a good thing!! :)

[tally10]

Sorry to hear that you don't enjoy "playing dress up". We have no objections to that either. The difference is we deal with things the way they are and don't try to change them to suit our selfish wishes. When we don't care to dress up we don't find it necessary to choose another cruiseline either. We just choose another venue for dining on Formal Nights. The specialty restaurants are Smart Casual, the buffet area is open and it's sometimes nice to dine in the cabin. You have to understand that it's just the polite thing to do. There are plenty of smart casual nights to enjoy in the MDR.:)

 

We tried the buffet on the Eclipse for one of the three formal nights. It was miniscule. Just had pizza, pasta, sushi, and a few salads. Very disppointing. If it was like the buffet on RCCL, there would be no problem eating there. The specialty restaurants are all at extra charge and when you are spending $6000 on the cruise portion alone, you really do not want to pay extra to dine. Three in a cabin is a little cramped for dinner and we don't enjoy being relegated to our cabin. But, let's face it, Celebrity is changing with the times (i.e. the smoking issue) and you may be surprised by how many people do not enjoy dressing up and would like to have one level of the dining room for those who don't or some other no charge option. We certainly let Celebrity know and that is what the comment cards are for. Really, I honestly think it is ridiculous to think that people are so offended by a dark sport coat and tie, a kilt, or anything less than the tux, suit, or "dinner jacket." If it was that horrible or offensive, the maitre'd or headwaiters, would stop you at the door. We saw none of that on our 2 week cruise, nor on any of our three, 2 week Connie cruises.:)

[CLEMM]

As for interpretation on what they meant, . . . in my opinion, . . . when Celebrity combines "Dinner Jacket with Slacks" (a casual trouser) versus "Dinner Jacket with Dress or Suit pants", . . . they are accepting of a less formal approach to your attire.

I disagree, and I think Celebrity's interpretation is different from yours as well. I say this because their definition of formal wear(including the "dinner jacket") was the same back when there was an informal night. Informal consisted of a sports jacket and formal said dinner jacket. Based upon this I believe that Celebrity makes a distinction between the formal dinner jacket(look it up!) and a sports jacket or blazer. If they wanted a sports jacket they would have said sports jacket. They have in the past.

[jackdiamond]

CLEMM, you are absolutely correct. One of the joys of dining in Blu is that you seldom witness an individual who is in violation of the dress code.

[1 HappyCruiser]

Sorry to hear that you don't enjoy "playing dress up". We have no objections to that either. The difference is we deal with things the way they are and don't try to change them to suit our selfish wishes. When we don't care to dress up we don't find it necessary to choose another cruiseline either. We just choose another venue for dining on Formal Nights. The specialty restaurants are Smart Casual, the buffet area is open and it's sometimes nice to dine in the cabin. You have to understand that it's just the polite thing to do. There are plenty of smart casual nights to enjoy in the MDR.:)

 

With that sort of thinking we would still have smoking in the dining room the way it was a few short years ago.

It's about time Celebrity realizes that not everyone is happy going to the trouble of dressing up on a vacation & either section off a portion of the dining room for casual dress or provide the same food selections elsewhere on formal evenings at no additional charge. Until then, there will continue to be discontentment among the diners.

[tally10]

CLEMM, you are absolutely correct. One of the joys of dining in Blu is that you seldom witness an individual who is in violation of the dress code.

 

I honestly don't understand how witnessing an individual who is in "violation" of the dress code, but is dressed well enough not to be turned away, is so horrible or offensive to your eyes. Does it cause your evening to be spoiled so that you can't enjoy your dinner or the cruise? Your cruise is what you make it.

[Ma Bell]

Whoa. I think you're coming on a little strong here, Ma Bell. This thread is very long so I may have missed something, but I don't think Tally10 said she was going to violate the dress code. She just wishes some things were different. That's not selfish.

 

It's been said a thousand times on these threads, but the cruise industry is changing. "The way things are" isn't really a constant. Celebrity will continue to evolve to meet market demands. When enough consumers want something, the market responds. That's not selfishness, that's capitalism.

 

 

I was using the same tone as this poster to make a point. Celebrity has it's own product and it is what it is right now. It's certainly possible that it may change in the future, just as it's certainly possible that it will remain the same for many years to come. It's entirely possible that people and fashion will even go back to a more formal atmosphere. Looking through many ages of fashion will show that this has happened many times.

 

As far as not wanting to violate the dress code, they already are. It's not a flagrant violation, but it's a step down from what's requested. If that step is OK, then the next one is too. We go from sportcoats to just shirts and ties and from shirts and ties to just a shirt with no tie. Then we might as well say a collared shirt is OK as long as we're neat and clean, and on and on.

 

Celebrity has provided many alternatives on their ships for people who want a more casual experience. Many people still love having a couple of Formal Nights and I don't really see that changing. They did away with Informal Nights where men were still required to wear a jacket and now just have the two designations. They even started a cruiseline, Azamara for those who wanted Smart Casual only. We've sailed with them and enjoyed it.

 

There are cruises and vacations to suit all kinds of tastes, and cruising, especially, has always been considered something a little more special than your everyday beach vacation.

 

I guess my question would be if everyone would be happy if everything in the world was exactly the same. Do we want to all wear our jeans and tee-shirts everywhere we go? If Formal Nights equal sportcoats, why bother to have them. Then we can get down to Smart Casual. Why bother to be Smart Casual when we can just bring our casual clothes only. It's such a bother to have to change for dinner at all, we shouldn't really have to do that. We'd prefer to just come in from the beach or the pool and head straight for the dining room.

 

It seems to me that there will continue to be people who like to have a choice for something just a little bit more formal and Celebrity provides that niche. If they become just like all the others, all those other things that people love about Celebrity may change as well. Why bother to try have an little more upscale experience if the passengers don't care enough to comply. They can just provide casual food for the casual diners and we can all have the same thing without any effort at all.

 

In theory, I really don't "care" what people wear to dinner, they are the one's who have to deal with their own choices, but there's no doubt that as long as Celebrity does have a dress code and an idea of what kind of atmosphere they are trying to maintain on their ships, it is a bit self serving to just ignore it and even more so to encourage others to do the same.

[Jerry and Shelly]

Whoa. I think you're coming on a little strong here, Ma Bell. This thread is very long so I may have missed something, but I don't think Tally10 said she was going to violate the dress code. She just wishes some things were different. That's not selfish.

 

It's been said a thousand times on these threads, but the cruise industry is changing. "The way things are" isn't really a constant. Celebrity will continue to evolve to meet market demands. When enough consumers want something, the market responds. That's not selfishness, that's capitalism.

 

Totally agree with you. That is how I started the original thread.

 

There are a few posters who are steadfast in their convictions and I think they must not realize that some of their comments directed to people who have different opinions could be perceived as being a bit on the rude side.

[Ma Bell]

I honestly don't understand how witnessing an individual who is in "violation" of the dress code, but is dressed well enough not to be turned away, is so horrible or offensive to your eyes. Does it cause your evening to be spoiled so that you can't enjoy your dinner or the cruise? Your cruise is what you make it.

 

 

If that is the case, then whatever anyone decides to wear should be good enough for the dining room. The next guy may think his jeans, tee-shirt and flip flops are just as acceptable as your sportcoat. Maybe he should bring his ipod and computer to dinner too. It wouldn't bother you or ruin your cruise would it? After all just witnesssing it wouldn't be so horrible.

[Ma Bell]

Totally agree with you. That is how I started the original thread.

 

There are a few posters who are steadfast in their convictions and I think they must not realize that some of their comments directed to people who have different opinions could be perceived as being a bit on the rude side.

 

 

I would suggest you read the comment that I responded to.

[Ma Bell]

We tried the buffet on the Eclipse for one of the three formal nights. It was miniscule. Just had pizza, pasta, sushi, and a few salads. Very disppointing. If it was like the buffet on RCCL, there would be no problem eating there. The specialty restaurants are all at extra charge and when you are spending $6000 on the cruise portion alone, you really do not want to pay extra to dine. Three in a cabin is a little cramped for dinner and we don't enjoy being relegated to our cabin. But, let's face it, Celebrity is changing with the times (i.e. the smoking issue) and you may be surprised by how many people do not enjoy dressing up and would like to have one level of the dining room for those who don't or some other no charge option. We certainly let Celebrity know and that is what the comment cards are for. Really, I honestly think it is ridiculous to think that people are so offended by a dark sport coat and tie, a kilt, or anything less than the tux, suit, or "dinner jacket." If it was that horrible or offensive, the maitre'd or headwaiters, would stop you at the door. We saw none of that on our 2 week cruise, nor on any of our three, 2 week Connie cruises.:)

 

 

That really isn't the point at all. Some sportcoats are very nice looking, people look great in them. They don't offend me in any way. Nothing ruins my cruise. You happen to think they are OK for Formal Night. Others may happen to think just a shirt and tie is OK. Others think just as long as you are clean and neat it's OK. The point is that none of these options are what Celebrity requests for Formal Night.

 

Many of the Maitre'ds would never stop anyone, that doesn't make it right. They just don't want a confrontation. There are some who will stop people and I've seen it happen on many occasions, but that really doesn't have anything to do with it either. I don't operate under the principle that whatever I can get away with is right.

 

I guess I must be the one who's a fool to think that being considerate of others and doing what's requested is great for everyone, not just myself.

[Ma Bell]

Totally agree with you. That is how I started the original thread.

 

There are a few posters who are steadfast in their convictions and I think they must not realize that some of their comments directed to people who have different opinions could be perceived as being a bit on the rude side.

 

 

Regarding this topic, it really has nothing to do with "my" convictions or opinions. I don't make the dress code. It seems that it's OK to pontificate and tell everyone how someone thinks things "should" be, according to them, but it's not OK to agree with things the way they actually are.:confused:

 

What exactly is rude about pointing out other options for those who wish to sail on Celebrity, but don't care to do as requested?

 

I might really want to have the meal they are having on Formal Night without having to dress up, but since I know what's expected, I just either put on my duds or go elsewhere.

[junglejane]

On our Med cruise on the Summit there were 3 formal nights. DH wore his rented tux for the first two. For the 3rd one, he wore his sportcoat and tie, thereby encouraging others down the slippery slope toward cutoffs and wifebeater shirts.;) The main thing I remember is being startled by how empty the MDR was. There were lots of empty tables and tables for 8 that only had two people show up. Our waitstaff was happy to have us there. (This was in June 2008, FWIW.)

[jackdiamond]

I honestly don't understand how witnessing an individual who is in "violation" of the dress code, but is dressed well enough not to be turned away, is so horrible or offensive to your eyes. Does it cause your evening to be spoiled so that you can't enjoy your dinner or the cruise? Your cruise is what you make it.

How often have you dined in Blu?

[tally10]

Regarding this topic, it really has nothing to do with "my" convictions or opinions. I don't make the dress code. It seems that it's OK to pontificate and tell everyone how someone thinks things "should" be, according to them, but it's not OK to agree with things the way they actually are.:confused:

 

What exactly is rude about pointing out other options for those who wish to sail on Celebrity, but don't care to do as requested?

 

I might really want to have the meal they are having on Formal Night without having to dress up, but since I know what's expected, I just either put on my duds or go elsewhere.

 

You know, it is a SUGGESTED dress code. I think Celebrity would have an even more difficult time filling their ships if it was mandatory to wear a tux or suit or dinner jacket or not be admitted to the MDR at all on formal nights. I don't agree that once you admit someone in a sport coat and tie would lead someone to show up in cut offs, tank tops, and flip flops for the next formal evening or smart casual. People aren't stupid or trying to disrespect all of the other diners as you imply. I guess you and others are just afraid to see any change at all to the formal nights. But be realistic, you may (or may not) in the future, if Celebrity gets enough feedback on the subject.

[tally10]

How often have you dined in Blu?

 

As often as you have answered my question.

[Ma Bell]

You know, it is a SUGGESTED dress code. I think Celebrity would have an even more difficult time filling their ships if it was mandatory to wear a tux or suit or dinner jacket or not be admitted to the MDR at all on formal nights. I don't agree that once you admit someone in a sport coat and tie would lead someone to show up in cut offs, tank tops, and flip flops for the next formal evening or smart casual. People aren't stupid or trying to disrespect all of the other diners as you imply. I guess you and others are just afraid to see any change at all to the formal nights. But be realistic, you may (or may not) in the future, if Celebrity gets enough feedback on the subject.

 

 

I think that's what I said, but guess what, it's not the future, it's now.;) I never thought I'd see anyone who thought a sportcoat was formalwear, so nothing would surprise me. I don't think someone would think jeans and tee-shirts were formalwear, but they could feel the same way about having to put on a shirt and tie as you do about wearing a suit. If you can do as you please, so can they. Are you more special than they are? Is your opinion worth more than theirs? Either we do as requested or all options are open.

 

I think it's great to make remarks on comment cards or write letters to try to change things we don't care for and maybe things will change. That doesn't excuse doing as we please before the fact.

[farsight]

As often as you have answered my question.

 

He's big into ignoring things he thinks are beneath him. Funny thing about actively ignoring people; it wastes energy.

 

Sign me,

 

Happy to be Ignored :D

[Smiley7863]

:confused: I cannot believe that some people can be so rude about what others wear. I was booked to go on the Norwegian Epic, but the reviews are not that great and I want a more quiet atmosphere. I was very fortunate to find the Celebrity Solstice which we will be on in Nov 2010.

 

Think about it, a lot of people love to cruise, they work hard to save their money to go on a cruise and then, "Oh Lord, I don't dress up in my day to day life and now I have to buy a bunch of clothes I will probably not wear again." With the economy the way it is it might be hard for some of us to dress to the "hilt" as others. I do agree that it would be highly inappropriate to wear jeans and a tee shirt to the formal nights or to any other night, but what is wrong with a jacket and tie? As for myself, I will wear a cocktail dress (black and very nice) and my husband will wear a black suit with a tie. We will only do one formal night and eat somewhere else on the 2nd formal night. I do not have the money to go out and buy a gown to not wear again. I know you probably think we should got on another cruise line then, but I say "no". We are respectable people who like tranquility and just being able to relax and enjoy ourselves in a quieter ship. Just because I may not be dressed like you, don't look down on me or my husband. Oh, on the other nights I was told by three cruise consultants that the dress code was casual. Yes, I called three different times to make sure, since it seems to be a big problem with a lot of the snootier passengers. So on those nights I will be wearing capris, slacks, and maybe a dress.

 

Aren't cruises supposed to be non stressful? :)