Any one go Cave Tubing September 30th?

[Cainam1]

So I was on the Valor on September 30th. We received an announcement that the government had closed the river for Cave Tubing which did not suprise me given all the rain they had had. So me and my companions made other plans.

 

However, the company I had an excursion booked with is telling me that the excursion went off as planned and will of course not refund my deposit. Suffice it to say, this has me a little confussed as someone appears to have given me misinformation.

 

So did anyone go Cave Tubing September 30th? If so who was your tour company? (If your cave tubing was canceled that would also be helpful information to know.)

 

Thank you all for the help.

[SANJOSEGAL]

So I was on the Valor on September 30th. We received an announcement that the government had closed the river for Cave Tubing which did not suprise me given all the rain they had had. So me and my companions made other plans.

 

However, the company I had an excursion booked with is telling me that the excursion went off as planned and will of course not refund my deposit. Suffice it to say, this has me a little confussed as someone appears to have given me misinformation.

 

So did anyone go Cave Tubing September 30th? If so who was your tour company? (If your cave tubing was canceled that would also be helpful information to know.)

 

Thank you all for the help.

 

I did not go cave tubing that day though I have someone you could call and ask. Try calling 011-501-602-8975 speak or text Vitalino Reyes with cavetubing.bz he is a great guy and very very honest. Let me know what happens. Also what company were you booked with? We were on the Valor earlier in month of September.

[Fourseventeen]

you recieved and announcement...from whom? You should have contacted the tour operator or visited their reps on the pier to confirm.

[Cainam1]

@SanJoseGal: Thank you for the information. I've got some feelers out there, but will give that number a call if they do not pan out. I booked the excursion through Island Marketing with Cave tubing X-stream. THey have had good reviews and I did not expect this response. The bottom line is that I have two companies that have fed me conflicting information. I'm just trying to figure out which one was correct.

 

@ Fourseventeen: Thank you for telling me what I should have done. This is most helpful in this situation as I was about to step into my Time Machine and go do just that. I espeically appreicate you taking the time to answer my questions with relavent information.

 

FYI: The announcement was from the cruise director on the ship stating that the Belize government had closed the river used for cave tubing. As we had already missed 2 port days due to poor weather we did not want to risk losing another so we booked a new excursion on the ship. When we got to the pier I asked for the tour operators booth, there was no one manning it at the time. The tour we went on was very tight on time and I did not have time to go looking for the tour operators again when we got back to the pier.

 

I'm inclined to believe the announcement made on ship only because, the weather had been so bad, and if the river was open, why would the ship risk having to return all the money from the cave tubing excursions they had booked?

 

If the worst thing that happens here is I lose my deposit, well, so be it. I had a good time in Belize. We were one of the last people to get on the tour we eventually did take. I would rather lose the deposit than have been stuck without an excursion on that day.

[Fourseventeen]

@ Fourseventeen: Thank you for telling me what I should have done. This is most helpful in this situation as I was about to step into my Time Machine and go do just that. I espeically appreicate you taking the time to answer my questions with relavent information.

 

FYI: The announcement was from the cruise director on the ship stating that the Belize government had closed the river used for cave tubing. As we had already missed 2 port days due to poor weather we did not want to risk losing another so we booked a new excursion on the ship. When we got to the pier I asked for the tour operators booth, there was no one manning it at the time. The tour we went on was very tight on time and I did not have time to go looking for the tour operators again when we got back to the pier.

 

I'm inclined to believe the announcement made on ship only because, the weather had been so bad, and if the river was open, why would the ship risk having to return all the money from the cave tubing excursions they had booked?

 

If the worst thing that happens here is I lose my deposit, well, so be it. I had a good time in Belize. We were one of the last people to get on the tour we eventually did take. I would rather lose the deposit than have been stuck without an excursion on that day.

 

Someone in a bit of a bad mood? Sorry for offering up what you SHOULD have done...my bad. Didnt realize it was such a touchy subject. Anyway if you were on time and no one was working the booth for the cave tubing company you booked and there was not a rep on the pier then you should get your deposit back. Call your CC company and argue the case if the 20 bucks is worth the hassle. I am sure your CC company will back you on this and refund your money...and I highly doubt the cave tubing company will try and argue the case with your CC company.

[murphynest]

To Cainam1:

We were also on the Valor on Sept. 30 and at 7:15 AM the Cruise Director informed us over the PA that the Government had closed the rivers and no Carnival or private excursions would be doing the cave tubing.....When you are on a ship, the ship's officers are the AUTHORITY and if they say it is closed....it is closed! We also went to the pier and found the tour operators booth empty. We had to purchase a $10 Belize phone card to call the number on the reservation and there was NO ANSWER! This certainly lead us to believe that the tour was indeed cancelled. However, as we walked around outside of the pier shops, we found Island Marketing in a new location. We inquired about a refund and were told that "we should never listen to the ship's announcements....they only want all of the business for themselves". Of course, Carnival had cancelled their cave tubing tours. They have still refused to give us our refund. So, our only recourse is to let all know that you risk losing your money if there are any issues with the weather.

[SANJOSEGAL]

I don't know if this will help or not but I wanted to let you know that I sent a email to Island Marketing here is a copy of what I sent them.

 

I wanted to pass on some information to you. I am a member of cruisecritic.com and have been reading some very disturbing postings on your business. I am making you aware of this because word travels very fast on that forum. Here is one of the postings.

 

We were also on the Valor on Sept. 30 and at 7:15 AM the Cruise Director informed us over the PA that the Government had closed the rivers and no Carnival or private excursions would be doing the cave tubing.....When you are on a ship, the ship's officers are the AUTHORITY and if they say it is closed....it is closed! We also went to the pier and found the tour operators booth empty. We had to purchase a $10 Belize phone card to call the number on the reservation and there was NO ANSWER! This certainly lead us to believe that the tour was indeed cancelled. However, as we walked around outside of the pier shops, we found Island Marketing in a new location. We inquired about a refund and were told that "we should never listen to the ship's announcements....they only want all of the business for themselves". Of course, Carnival had cancelled their cave tubing tours. They have still refused to give us our refund. So, our only recourse is to let all know that you risk losing your money if there are any issues with the weather.

 

They responded almost immediately here is what they said.

Good Evening Yvonne,

We appreciate your comments and we will monitor these comments closely . We are a very reputable company with a great reputation for providing excellent service along with value and quality. Of course we will address this issue and appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Our terms and agreements are very clear and we try to be fair at all times.

Many thanks,

Katie Tompkins

Reservations Department

Island Marketing Ltd.

[Cainam1]

@Sanjosegal Thank you for letting me know that you have informed Island Marketing about this issue and the feedbakc they are receiving. Thier response strikes me as not having a lot of substance to it.

 

@Murphynest Ummm... WOW... that was a considerably worse answer than I was expecting. The no answer on the telephone line is disturbing. The fact that you could not find people a the normal booth also agrees with what I found when I was on the pier. So when you did find thier booth did they offer to take you on the excursion? When i contacted them they said that the tour went off as scheduled. I'm finding this harder and harder to believe. I put a call into Carnival to see if they could let me know who told them that the river was closed. While I do believe that Carnival wants my money, I find it hard to believe that they think the best strategy to do so is to cancel thier own tour.

 

I do not think that Island Marketing has any intention on refunding my deposit and will most likely have to resort to contesting the charge with my credit card company.

[vfb2girls]

This is really sad since IM has been such a great company to work with, I booked all our excursions with them for our first cruise and we are using them again in March. I sure hope they correct this situation, I really don't want to have to find another booking company to use.

[murphynest]

@Sanjosegal Thank you for letting me know that you have informed Island Marketing about this issue and the feedbakc they are receiving. Thier response strikes me as not having a lot of substance to it.

 

@Murphynest Ummm... WOW... that was a considerably worse answer than I was expecting. The no answer on the telephone line is disturbing. The fact that you could not find people a the normal booth also agrees with what I found when I was on the pier. So when you did find thier booth did they offer to take you on the excursion? When i contacted them they said that the tour went off as scheduled. I'm finding this harder and harder to believe. I put a call into Carnival to see if they could let me know who told them that the river was closed. While I do believe that Carnival wants my money, I find it hard to believe that they think the best strategy to do so is to cancel thier own tour.

 

I do not think that Island Marketing has any intention on refunding my deposit and will most likely have to resort to contesting the charge with my credit card company.

 

Cainam1........When we found their new booth (which is on the back street in a small complex behind the port compound), they said we could do the brewery tour for the same fee. The cave tubing tour was gone and since there were eight of us and some found no interest in the brewery, we did not take them up on that offer. However, the manager at the office said that it would be up to the main office to refund our deposit and we would hear from them. After contacting them when we got home, they refused. About the telephone number...we tried to call from the ship....no contact...again when on the pier....no answer. The reason the new office gave was..."I don't know what number you called (the one on the sheet), but I received no calls on my cell phone". I also find it hard to believe that if the Government notified the ship to cancel their excursions due to unsafe conditions, that this company would risk potential injuries for a few dollars.

[murphynest]

SanJosegirl......Thanks for your efforts!

[Cainam1]

Not EXACTLY the response I was looking for but...

 

I got a response from Carnival. Here is what they told me.

 

Thank you for your patience while we researched your inquiry.

This will confirm that the Cave Tubing tour on the CARNIVAL VALOR was cancelled because the Sibun River was closed by the Park Rangers in the morning. The river was reopened sometime during the day but it was to late to run our tours at that time. If you should have any further questions, please contact us at guestcare@carnival.com.

 

 

We do hope you enjoyed your cruise aboard the CARNIVAL VALOR and will give us the opportunity to welcome you back again soon.

So I suppose it's POSSIBLE that X-Stream either waited longer and left once it was confirmed open, or went up while it was closed hoping it would be open by the time they got up there.

Either way I'm not sure what I as a cruise passanger should believe. I really wish that carnival would provide me with what I asked them for which is thier contact with the river. If I could speak to those Rangers I could get things like times etc. When it reopened is obviously key.

[SANJOSEGAL]

I just got a response from Island Marketing here you go.

 

Ms. Fennel,

Thank you for bringing the info to our attention, it is indeed disturbing, but most of all it is of great disappointment.

The Caves Branch was closed by the Park Rangers on both the 28th and 29th of September. All of our cave tubing tours were cancelled, and all Clients have been refunded their deposit they had placed to guarantee the tour.

On September 30th the Caves Branch was re-opened by the Park Rangers at 7:30am (7:30am local Belize time, same as 9:30am ship time), which was the set departure time for all reserved passengers on the Cave Tubing Tour, as well as the Cave Tubing and Canopy Zip Line Combo Tour. Both tours operated as usual with roughly a 95% attendance by all reserved passengers. All of our Clients were on the Carnival valor, the only Ship in port on Sept. 30th was the Valor.

We are aware that Carnival cancelled their tour on Sept. 30th, but their Operations and decisions truly do not reflect our Operations in any way. You will find that on many occasions, in all Ports, that a Cruise Liner may cancel one of their tours, while the same tour, in the same location, scheduled for the same departure time will still operate with another Operator.

We know as much about Carnival’s tour operations as they know about ours. Our tour cancellations do not reflect their operational capabilities any more than Carnival’s affect ours. I do agree that the Capt. Of the Ship has the authority, but that authority does not extend to our tours.

We serviced over 90 Clients at the Caves Branch on Sept. 30th, and unfortunately 8 reserved passengers in various reservations did not show for their tour scheduled at 7:30am (local time). We were not aware Carnival cancelled their cave tubing tour until some of our Clients advised us that they had cancelled their tour, and will say that the 90+ Clients who did show as reserved thanked us profusely for our services. They were extremely happy to have reserved with X-Stream as they were able to enjoy their tour as reserved, as opposed to reserving their tour with Carnival which was cancelled.

When Clients are reserved we hire vans, hire Guides, pre-purchased entrance tickets to parks etc. ahead of time for the reserved Client, and prepare for their arrival accordingly. I will admit the reservation deposit questioned by the Client who wrote the message will not come close to covering what our Company already spent before he/she arrived into Port.

Our terms of reservation are very clear, and explain the whole procedure in details.

http://belizecruiseexcursions.com/Terms.htm

We even include an explanation (with tongue in cheek, we sell fun not contractual agreements) of why our terms have been in place. Clients who do not show for their reserved tour, for any reason, will be charged for the full balance of the tour, and their deposit is non-refundable (no different than Carnival’s or any other Cruise Liner’s terms of reservation).

We do have a medical clause of course, we do understand some Clients may be ill once in port, but we cannot possibly absorb all costs associated with organizing a tour when a Client does not show as reserved, or because a third party not associated with our Company advises that our tour has been cancelled when it was not.

Because it was an unusual situation we did over-extend our terms, and we did not charge the full balance of the tour to any of the Clients who did not show up due to being misinformed by Carnival on Sept 30th.

Even though we insured all tours were organized as promised a full balance was not collected, but we did pay the Guides, and did pay for vans in full even for the Clients who did not show or arrived too late to go on the tour. We have associated costs per number of passengers expected and are reserved, not cost per passenger who actually go on tour. The park tickets can fortunately be used by other reserved passengers on a later date.

I truly find the comments disappointing as we did our best to ensure a tour, not the other way around. I find it disappointing that we are viewed as “the bad guy” when all we did was to conduct a tour as scheduled. I find it disappointing that Carnival is viewed as “the good guy” when it was their announcement that caused the Client to somehow think not showing for the tour as reserved would be the correct thing to do. Would Carnival not be responsible for the misinformation?

Just to cover some of the points in the message you have forwarded:

For Carnival to announce their cave tubing tour is cancelled as well as independent operators tours (not working for the cruise liner) is certainly incorrect. Considering the majority of our Clients showed as reserved I truly don’t believe they announced we were not operating, or 5% would have showed for the tour, not the other way around.

The Captain of a Ship does not have the authority to close a park, close tours for other companies, nor does he have the authority to decide which tour can operate in any Country. That decision is kept by the Government or regulatory body of the Country visited at that time. He does have the authority to cancel their tours (bad decision on the Capt.’s part on Sept 30th), or to steer around icebergs (that did not work very well at times) or to maybe decide what will be served at the 12am buffet. They made a bad call, and an announcement that their tour was cancelled. Nothing more.

We do not have a booth at the port, we never have, we had an office on the south part of the Port. Our field phone number is in operation all day long. Our Guides were at the tenders until 8am for cave tubing & zip line tours, and until 9:30am for the Maya Ruins tours (local Belize times). We do have a new office location, that location is found on most reservations, some of the reservations we had issued before the new office was acquired state the meeting is right in front of your tender at 7:20am local time (9:30am ship time). Early arriving passengers are also met at the tender. We do not, and have never included directions to a booth.

I cannot comment on the comment made by a Guide at that time. I do find the comment inappropriate, but please understand the frustration which may be experienced by a Guide or dispatcher when a Client arrives one hour late, or more, to announce Carnival had cancelled our tour and demands a refund. Please understand when Clients are reserved on our tours we await for their arrival as a few may have had difficulties in tendering, while other reserved Clients unfortunately have to also wait for late arriving passengers. Frustration cannot better describe how a dispatcher feels when 6 passengers are waiting for 2 others to arrive. I find it personally unsettling that a client will take the time to arrive at our office 2hrs late to demand $10usd back, and not bother to arrive on time as reserved to check if a tour is still operating as required.

We fully refund all deposits if a tour is cancelled due to inclement weather, or if a ship does not call port for any reason.

We have cancelled cave tubing tours due to inclement weather when the park was open. If the river is moving too fast, if the water is too high in the caves, if the tour would pose any danger to our Clients we will cancel the tour, and all clients would be refunded. We have had instances where the Cruise Liner operated the tour, and we cancelled due to dangerous waters in the caves. I can honestly say that issues with the weather do not pose any risk to our Client’s deposits.

All we ask is for Clients to arrive at their meeting location as planned, and as reserved. It is truly disturbing to expect otherwise.

I hope you will find my long e-mail informative and in agreement that our Company truly had no involvement in cheating clients, or otherwise in error to our Guests. We have been servicing cruise ship passengers for many years, and in many ports, you will find that our terms and our Company is fare, honest, and dedicated to our Client’s enjoyment during their vacation.

Kind regards,

Matteo Uggeri

Managing Director

Island Marketing Ltd (Cayman)

[murphynest]

Thank you for your efforts to clear up the situation. We are not first-time cruisers, nor naive. We have have traveled all over Europe and the Caribbean and never encountered a conflicting situation between the ship and an excursion. A valuable lesson was learned. There are so many tours available at any port that it is better to book upon arrival and not in advance. Believe me, it was never about the deposit, but the confusion.

[SANJOSEGAL]

Thank you for your efforts to clear up the situation. We are not first-time cruisers, nor naive. We have have traveled all over Europe and the Caribbean and never encountered a conflicting situation between the ship and an excursion. A valuable lesson was learned. There are so many tours available at any port that it is better to book upon arrival and not in advance. Believe me, it was never about the deposit, but the confusion.

 

I totally agree with you we are in no way as experienced in cruising and this is one of the reasons I read these threads. We so far have never had a problem booking our excursions in advance. We prefer private tours with hand picked tour guides. All of this possible through the recommendations from CC. I sure learned a lesson here on what to do under similar circumstances. Happy sailing.

[Cainam1]

Sigh...

 

Thank you SanJoseGal for the research. The reponse you received was much better written than the one I got. I don't think anyone here is a good guy or a bad guy. The response is clear and contains dates, times and figures that make it fairly credible. There are two things that bother me however.

 

I'm bothered that I've still yet to hear of anyone who went cave tubing that day. Not here, not on the ship. No where. Yes it's a big ship and yes most people are not on CC... but seriously... not one?

 

I'm bothered by the fact that Island marketing appears to have the number of people who missed the excursion wrong. If Murphynest was 8 people and my group was four people then more than 8 people or 5% missed this tour. It may have been generalization, but it's not presented like that. But even if it was... the only 2 groups to not go on this excursion find this thread and no one who went did?

 

All in all... it's $40 and well... I was caught in the middle either way. How upset would I have been if I had shown up for this excursion and the river had not been reopened at the last minute as they say it was? Unlike Murphynest at least me and my group got to do something we enjoyed. I'm just not happy I was forced to make that decision and I think I agree like Murphynest the lesson learned here is that there are plenty of options out there that do not require a deposit and maybe I should look harder at those in the future.

 

Also, let me say this. If the reponse SanJoseGal got from Island Marketing is true, then I am thaankful that they did realize the odd situation and make an exception for us and only charge us the deposit. They were within thier rights to charge for the full tour and did not and I appreicate that.

[mylan]

Like I was saying on the Valor review, we booked cave tubing from the ship and heard Big Tex make the announcement about the government canceling tubing excursions. If your tour operator ran the excursion then he was putting everyone in danger because there was a women who drowned on a Carnival tubing excursion due to flooding. I'll bet no one cave tubed that day and the tour operator is betting you won't find out and you'll drop it, sorry I can't be of more help.

[SANJOSEGAL]

This can not be the first time something like this has happened especially with such a large company as Island Marketing. If they regularly came across this situation I don't think they would have gone to such a lengthy explanation as to what happened that day. So for that reason they should have refunded everyone their deposit for the sake of good customer relations.

 

With heavy competition in this business I would think they would go out of their way to plan on the unexpected. In the letter he explains the cost involved in having drivers, vans, ect. standing by costing money. Well this is the cost of doing business whether you are running a restaurant and have cooks, servers, ect. standing by or run a tour company.

 

Also just like you said you can walk off a ship and pick up a tour with no advance notice. They have extra drivers and vans sitting there just for this reason. So to act like they lost money due to people not showing up seems like a over reaction.

 

As for all those Valor cruisers that supposedly did the cave tubing trip with Island Marketing I think I need to put my detective hat on and find them. I guess you can tell I love a challenge. I believe in justice for all.

[Cainam1]

SanJoseGal

 

I want to beleive that letter too. As I said it is well written, but the discrepancies still bother me enough tht like you I've been putting on my detective hat.

 

I posted to the main Carnival thread, but after a few well intentioned but unhelpful responses it was taken down. I'm not sure what I did wrong there but just fair warning. (I was responding to the responses I got so I may have been viewed as bumping... not intended)

[SANJOSEGAL]

Like I was saying on the Valor review, we booked cave tubing from the ship and heard Big Tex make the announcement about the government canceling tubing excursions. If your tour operator ran the excursion then he was putting everyone in danger because there was a women who drowned on a Carnival tubing excursion due to flooding. I'll bet no one cave tubed that day and the tour operator is betting you won't find out and you'll drop it, sorry I can't be of more help.

 

I just sent a text message to the tour company we used in early Sept for cave tubing, cavetubing dot bz. The owner just called me back to my surprise I thought maybe he would just send me a text back. He checked his records and said yes he did do cave tubing tours Sept 30th. He remembered specifically the circumstances of that day. He lives very close to the river so early that morning he drove over there to see for himself the river conditions, he said I don't put my tour guides including my son's life at risk or cruise passengers. He did hear that Carnival had cancelled their tours. Very early that morning the river level had dropped to a safe level so tours were OK to operate and they did.

 

I never mentioned in our conversation why I wanted to know if any tours happened that day I just asked if they had.

 

I have to mention how impressed I was then and now in dealing with this tour company. This was our first time in Belize so I always do a lot of research before I chose a company to handle our tour. Vitalino had amazing reviews on Trip Advisor so I gave them a try. His son was our guide along with 3 other guys. I wrote a review on Trip Advisor myself if you are interested you can read it there.

 

So hopefully this puts the issue to rest as to if Island Marketing really did any tours that day to the cavetubing river. :)