Carnival ships not stopping at Belize News release

[triphopcooper]

There is some news to report tonight in the ongoing standoff between Carnival Cruise Lines and Cruise Tender Operators in Belize. According to reports, the Carnival Legend will make a scheduled call on Belize next week Thursday. It is the only ship scheduled for next week so there are no cancellations to report.

 

Reports to us suggest that Maritime Estates Limited - which is the group headed by Martha Williams - has given Carnival a revised costing which is closer to the 5US dollars per manifested passenger bottom line which the Cruise Line is steadfastly clinging to.

 

And while that would suggest that progress is being made, to hear the vitriol coming out of a FECTAB press conference today, any deal made on Carnival's terms is a step down the road to perdition.

 

Again, late evening reports suggest that the negotiation is going in the other direction, as one local company is reportedly coming down to Carnival's fixed price.

 

We should note that not only is Carnival asking for a lower price, it is asking for a different price formula to be applied. The present formula and the one that has been in effect for more than 10 years is that the tender operators are paid five Belize dollars per capacity of the vessel. That means 5 dollars for every seat on the tender boat regardless of whether ten or 100 passengers are on board.

 

Now Carnival wants to pay the tenders five us dollars per manifested passenger on the cruise ship. In that case, if there are two thousand persons on the cruise ship, the tenders get paid five us dollars each. The operators at today's press conference say under that formula they get paid radically less - amounting to something in the range of one or two dollars per capacity of the vessel.

[dperki1]

The people in Belize are very angry with Carnival....one of the persons statement was quite frightening about foreigners...this is the rest of the news from belize 7 that the previous poster didn't give.

 

 

Tom *********, President - FECTAB

"Carnival, the message is clear - bring your ships, lets us help negotiate, work with the tenders. Let's get this job done as your guest as your guest at sea, otherwise GET THE HELL OUT OF BELIZE!!"

 

That was the message sent out from this morning's press conference where Fectab and the Tender Association found common cause and raged against Carnival's tactics with fiery rhetorict:

Jose Marin, President, Tender Operators

"You see what is happening; the white men are over there dictating to us right now. We have to stand up."

Tom *********, President

"We have been slam-dunk into the ground, stump into the ground by a giant from abroad providing 70% of the passengers to Belize. We are now suffering as a result of saying 'welcome to the jewel', 'you bring somebody into your house and they take a pot of hot soup and throw it in your face?' that's what has happen."

Jose Marin, President, Tender Operators

"We as a group will not sit down at the light house knowing the work that we have put into this industry and the investment and to watch a foreigner run a boat up and down. We will not stand for that. It doesn't matter who it is. But the buck stop here."

Participant

"We went through Richard, we went through floods, and this is what Carnival is doing to us, this is what we take - the things that Carnival is doing to us - they threatened us. If we cannot find a way, there is no starvation in Belize."

Participant

"What we got to do is twist Carnival like a dish rag, push them around like deck broom."

Tom *********, President

"Carnival cruise lines has decided to blackmail Belize - We are not bringing the ships, in one case 75% - hurting everybody on the ground because here what 'we want our way and you are a tiny little mouse and we is an elephant' this mouse is about to roar. We have to stand up and say 'I might be a mouse and you might be an elephant but when you miss that first step I will ran up your foot, watch out for what I will bite."

But more than just strong talk - these operators say Belize has a strategic advantage:

Tom *********, President

"Belize is the center of western Caribbean itinerary. We are a one stop shopping center. Almost a dozen cultures, a peaceful country, basically English speaking and of course there are other languages. Rivers pack with wild life. Second longest barrier reef on the planet, fishing and everything else that go with it. Mayan sites - once the center of the incredible Maya civilization, within a hour's reach - Altun Ha; an hour and a half - Xunantunich. Cave tubing, you can't get that anywhere else in the western hemisphere, there are places you can jump in a tube - jump in and go that way and come back out; that thing we have there is unique; in one area how many people went through there? 102 thousand people, proving a living and everything else that is Belize - pristine rainforest etc. The smiling faces of our people. If these cruise ships don't come to Belize, there are practically destroying their western itinerary, we must realize that and pit ourselves in a position of strength."

Jose Marin, President, Tender Operators

"So if that means that Carnival have to turn their bow and get out of water, that is what we will do. We have to realize as Belizeans, we have to be proud of what we have, we got the product, we have the product. When you go to Mexico, the first thing they make you know is that Mexico is for Mexicans. In Belize we allow everybody to come from outside and walk over us. This has to stop."

The Tender Operators say Carnival is comparing them to Cayman - which only has to tender a mile, while they tender 9 miles:

Jose Marin, President, Tender Operators

"They are getting US$4 a head in Cayman to do one mile and they want to give us US$5 a head to do 9 mile round trip which is ridiculous. I mention that to him and his response is like take it or leave it basically. The emails that we receive and the way they talk to us is like we are nothing, they look down on us, it's like take it or leave it. We have to stand up as a country. We can't continue like this. Our stand is we stand as a country to lose yes but they have a lot of other lines that probably would want to come in and full in the gap."

Participant

"Royal Caribbean just listen to us and get some more ships on the waves. Carnival doesn't want to listen, we don't need to see those wings, the air place has wings, we have an airport."

And collectively, these industry stakeholders say they are ready to sacrifice:

Yohnnie Rosado, Treasurer, FECTAB

"It is very important to know that if we have to live with rice alone let's do that but let's not Carnival punishes us and threatened our country with a couple ships. It is true that we have used to drive nice vehicles and eat rice and beans with a couple of meats inside, but we can change overnight. We can tell Carnival we are so small but we have pride. Our pride is so huge, I don't see Carnival hurting the entire country, Carnival can hurt each one of us individually, they have hurt the tour operations because it's no longer Belizeans, now they are getting to the tenders. I will dream of this day that if we don't stand up and if we don't win this fight with the government and the Belize Tourism Board. I will see the day that the taxi operations will be tick out from inside of the FSTV and then we lose the fight too, so I really believe for us Belizean we should stand up together and fight the fight right now and the fight is together with the tenders, together with the hair braiders and together with us the local inland tour operators, tour guides and taxi guys."

The Alliance is a natural progression for FECTAB which has been fighting carnival and its local contractor Backabush/Chukka tours

Yohnnie Rosado, Treasurer, FECTAB

"Remember that the ship comes to Belize but not for Belize. The ship comes for Chukka/Bakabush, there are the main tour operator for Carnival."

And while FECTAB is with them, not everyone is - many industry stakeholders earn a living from Carnival:

Tom *********, President

"These people who are saying 'they are spoiling things for us' they are protecting $40 and $50, when we fought in this industry for years to get them $100 and $150. Boss I am telling those people who work for Chukka Cove now 'unu get taken'"

Yohnnie Rosado, Treasurer, FECTAB

"If they the tenders would raise their price then they would be at fault. But if the ship is lowing the price then they are at fault, it is very clear to see but the people that are doing business with Carnival, they are blaming them but they want to tell us and tell the media that 13 little old boats are causing a lot of problem and the ship is going somewhere else and that all of us will punish and starve. Well i am saying, I am with the tenders, I don't care if they have 13,14,15 or 10, I am with the Belizean tenders because I have feel the pain and the pinch and staggering of Carnival."

And so with that, this crew says they are ready to give Carnival a royal send off - if they don't play fair:

Jose Marin, President, Tender Operators

"Because Carnival is trying to buy time. They figure maybe if the drag this out a few weeks that we will ran out of steam. No steam is there to run out of because we are already not eating. So we will pick up steam. That is what we will do. We already figure which boat we will wave them off goodbye on, waving them through the channel. Get out of our country, straight up, no more coming to try stuff things down our throats and think that we are idiots. We have enough in our pool to carry anybody who wants to go with us for support to wave them off goodbye. We have enough boat for that."

Tom *********, President - FECTAB

"Belizean people we need to wake up, we are putting back on our clothes and now we will show them that it is good clothes we have on so once again Carnival bring your ships in, negotiate while people are moving and things are happening. Carnival continue jacking our situation and blackmailing us - GET THE HELL OUT OF BELIZE!"

Again, late evening reports suggest that the negotiation is going in the other direction, as one local company is reportedly coming down to Carnival's fixed price.

We should note that not only is Carnival asking for a lower price, it is asking for a different price formula to be applied. The present formula and the one that has been in effect for more than 10 years is that the tender operators are paid five Belize dollars per capacity of the vessel. That means 5 dollars for every seat on the tender boat regardless of whether ten or 100 passengers are on board. Now Carnival wants to pay the tenders five us dollars per manifested passenger on the cruise ship. In that case, if there are two thousand persons on the cruise ship, the tenders get paid five us dollars each. The operators at today's press conference say under that formula they get paid radically less - amounting to something in the range of one or two dollars per capacity of the vessel.

[triphopcooper]

Saturday, January 29, 2011

BREAKING NEWS ON CRUISE SHIP POLICY IN BELIZE

 

BREAKING NEWS on cruise ships and Carnival Cruise Lines in Belize.

 

Both the Government spokespeople and a fiery shuttle tender meeting agreed on the a new policy for Belize and Cruise ships like Carnival Cruise Lines.

 

The policy is: They are welcome to come to Belize, but only on SOVEREIGN BELIZE terms. They are temporary visitors and we will as a policy as a nation, not accept any bullying. Take it or leave it attitude. They want to go someplace else, thats okay. It´s a FREE WORLD out there.

 

Carnival cut 4 ships this past week and about 10,000 tourists, trying to bully the locals, by cutting visitors and revenues. Carnival in particular has overloaded our capability and infra-structure.

_______________________________________________

 

A lot of soul searching nationwide and with cruise ship service operators. The big ships have become too much. Carnival in particular. There is an underlying rethinking of tourism policy and will undoubtedly move toward re-orientation to smaller cruise ship visit type business preferences. Look for a major shift nationwide on how the cruise ship business is re-orientated. Shuttle tender people are prepared to take the loss of business, they say with fiery rhetoric. About a 130,000 people a year go cave tubing on the Hummingbird Highway. The rest visit three Maya ruins. Altun Ha, Xununtanich and Cahel Pech. The public seem totally in support of the new policy ideas being put forward.

The local desire is to move toward smaller cruise ship type vessels. Maybe small as 50 to 100 passengers, able to visit places like Placentia and Punta Gorda. A number of daily visitors that will not overload and destroy our eco-system. The new tourist policy ideas are meeting with favor throughout the country. We will build the type of cruise ship industry we can handle and manage. No more knee jerk reactions to outside developments stimulated by GREED.

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

The realization has come, you cannot build a business on cruise ships. It is too fragile a relationship. One terrorist act on a cruise ship and the business would disappear for years, within 12 hours. Bankruptcies would spread like wildfire.

[Pssunshinegal]

Good for Belize. I hope they stay strong on this point. There is so much more to this story and hopefully others will investigate for themselves rather than blame poor Belize, a country of less than 300,000 people total population.

[kml2000]

I just read this and find it very concerning. I am not supporting either side, and am becoming disillusioned with Carnival. However, with all the Carnival "hate" going on over there (and could be completely justified), I may just want to stay on the ship if our ship does end up in Belize.

[panamatiger]

Here's an idea...those of us that want to go to Belize. Get on the tender, pass the hat and give the Captain a "tip" to help cover his/her fuel costs. A nice Thank You goes a long way also

[CMJFamily]

I don't know all the facts but it seems Belize is gong to lose millions if they don't forego the fare increase. Why wouldn't the government subsidize the tenders considering the money that is brought into the country by cruise visitors? I compare it to waitresses here who work without an hourly wage. They stay longer after their shifts and just work for tips. Sure , the bar is taking advantage of them knowing they will stay and work even though they are not getting paid but on the other hand, the waiters are pulling in sometimes close to $300 in tips!

 

We have enjoyed our previous visits to Belize but were thinking of not going ashore this cruise due to our concerns about safety. Last time, we were harassed to the point that it made Jamaica look tame in comparison. Reading the press releases has definitely heightened our concerns about going ashore.

[pitterpattershoppe]

Hmm, wow! Yeah, I really don't even want to go to Belize now. We're supposed to port the week of March 6th. It's been hard enough to find a reputable tour operator to book through in Belize. I can see the tour operators really not caring around their clients now. I can see things being done to visitors out of spite.

 

I wish Carnival would just cancel our port and tell us what the new one might be.

 

-pitterpattershoppe

[Sacandjac]

We are taking our first cruise about the Triumph on Feb 26. We are scheduled to go to to Belize as our first port and have paid for zip lining there. Does anyone have an idea of what might happen? Will we go to a new port? Will they try to find us similar excursions in this new port? Will it be up to us? When will we know? Kind of confusing. Any help appreciated. Thanks, Jill

[mctennismom]

What ashame that so many people will not be able to experience Belize. We were just there on Jan. 12th and had the most amazing experience. The people were wonderful and took great pride in sharing their country and heritage. It is so sad that greed has to be such a huge part of Carnivals tactic. I mean seriously do you think that people who have hundreds of dollars in bar bills are going to notice if their cruise price goes up $5!!!!!I was so disappointed that we didn't get to go to Roatan, and then was informed about Carnivals greed in that country too. Destroying the reef to build their big new cruise port which by the way they ban the locals from coming to. So if you don't book your excursion with Carnival then you have to walk quite a ways outside the Carnival terminal. This was definitely my last Carnival cruise. So what other cruise company should we try?

[jessicas mom]

Wow, this is all really surprising. We visited both Roatan and Belize with RCL the week of Jan 9-16 and had a wonderful time (although Roatan is definitely the better stop). In Belize, two of our party of 5 went cave tubing (independently booked the extreme tour-not the best, but that's another topic). The other three stayed in the shopping area, which was very enjoyable. The tenders were "interesting", to say the least, but the local staff seemed welcoming and very attentive to passenger safety. There were three ships in port that day (ours plus two Carnival ships), and tenders were plentiful, running steadily with minimal waiting. I'm not sure this is typical; the weather was cool and the waters choppy, so a fair number of people chose to remain onboard (at least in the morning). The island's infrastructure is in great need of improvement, so I can certainly see why the locals wouldn't want to have their income cut (especially from wealthy corporate sources) or their ecosystem damaged.

[vfb2girls]

We were booked with an independent tour for Belize coming up the first week of March but I went ahead a cancelled. There is just to much anger floating around, I think it just might be a day on the ship for us now.

[Jay44224]

I have been to Belize several times, it is a unique stop, and has not yet developed into a very commercialized port. This gives it a very authentic feel and one I will most likely have to pass on when the Valor is scheduled to be there in Feb. 17th or some where around that date.

 

If we do stop I truly believe there will be no animosity between the people of Belize and the passengers, as it is not the visitors that are in this dispute. I have my tour booked through an independent as I do on all islands even Roatan, I may not like the walk there but I prefer the more laid back traditions of the island.

 

Good luck, if personally given the choice I would pay the extra few dollars to see the mainland.

 

Good luck and may an amicable resolution occur before to much damage is done to resolve the relationship.

[dperki1]

Wow, this is all really surprising. We visited both Roatan and Belize with RCL the week of Jan 9-16 and had a wonderful time (although Roatan is definitely the better stop). In Belize, two of our party of 5 went cave tubing (independently booked the extreme tour-not the best, but that's another topic). The other three stayed in the shopping area, which was very enjoyable. The tenders were "interesting", to say the least, but the local staff seemed welcoming and very attentive to passenger safety. There were three ships in port that day (ours plus two Carnival ships), and tenders were plentiful, running steadily with minimal waiting. I'm not sure this is typical; the weather was cool and the waters choppy, so a fair number of people chose to remain onboard (at least in the morning). The island's infrastructure is in great need of improvement, so I can certainly see why the locals wouldn't want to have their income cut (especially from wealthy corporate sources) or their ecosystem damaged.

 

I am really glad to hear that you had a positive experience with the locals on the tenders. I have been to Roatan also and it is very beautiful. My mom and I were talking about going to Goff Cay and then heading over to the dock when we get back, hopefully that will work out for us. If not, I love a sea day or an alternate stop.

When I was on the Liberty in 09 we were redirected from Cozumel to Roatan...lovely island...going to Cozumel this time (I hope)...lol:)

[pitterpattershoppe]

Why the redirect? I thought Cozumel was pretty much a sure port?

 

-pitterpattershoppe

 

I am really glad to hear that you had a positive experience with the locals on the tenders. I have been to Roatan also and it is very beautiful. My mom and I were talking about going to Goff Cay and then heading over to the dock when we get back, hopefully that will work out for us. If not, I love a sea day or an alternate stop.

 

When I was on the Liberty in 09 we were redirected from Cozumel to Roatan...lovely island...going to Cozumel this time (I hope)...lol:)

[Turtle Lover]

It would certainly be a shame for Belize to be taken off the itinerary of the Western Caribbean cruises. It is a beautiful country, and the people living there are hard-working people that deserve the tourism that helps their economy. I have taken six cruises with Carnival Cruise Line, and I'm appalled at the way this cruise line has treated the Belizean people. I do not plan to take another cruise with Carnival, because of this whole controversy in Belize.

 

In 2009, Carnival Cruise Line made the decision to select a Jamaican company called Chukka Cove to exclusively operate the shore based tours in Belize. This Jamaican company took business away from the Belizean people that depend on the cruise ships that come into port. Then it turned out that Chukka Cove was not paying the $5 entrance fee that all of the other Belizean operators had to pay.

 

Now Carnival has attempted to implement policies that would only allow boats carrying 150 passengers or more to transport passengers to the mainland. The problem is that local boat owners (boats owned by the Belizean people) only have a capacity to transport 100 passengers. This policy will put the Belizean boat owners out of business unless they buy larger boats. In order to do that, I would imagine that the cost of tendering the passengers would go up. Could it be that this is the reason for the higher transport fees? It would make sense to me.

 

I find it very unfair to blame the people of Belize for the underhanded dealings of the Carnival Cruise Line. Shame on them for bullying the people of this country and trying to take away their livelihoods.

[vermonter16]

We just booked the Dream for November because of Belize and Costa Maya. We love Mayan ruins and that's what we'd like to see once again. I would be soooo disappointed if Carnival cancelled Belize. They need to get off their butts and work all this out.

[dperki1]

Why the redirect? I thought Cozumel was pretty much a sure port?

 

-pitterpattershoppe

 

 

Sorry, Swine Flu that year:eek:

[Pssunshinegal]

Thank you for posting this. I sure hope that the country of Belize will stand up to Carnival because from reading locally there is even more to this story, but your post begins to show the light on the true problems. It is my understanding that posts have even been pulled that told about the total cutting out of the local boat owners.

 

 

It would certainly be a shame for Belize to be taken off the itinerary of the Western Caribbean cruises. It is a beautiful country, and the people living there are hard-working people that deserve the tourism that helps their economy. I have taken six cruises with Carnival Cruise Line, and I'm appalled at the way this cruise line has treated the Belizean people. I do not plan to take another cruise with Carnival, because of this whole controversy in Belize.

 

In 2009, Carnival Cruise Line made the decision to select a Jamaican company called Chukka Cove to exclusively operate the shore based tours in Belize. This Jamaican company took business away from the Belizean people that depend on the cruise ships that come into port. Then it turned out that Chukka Cove was not paying the $5 entrance fee that all of the other Belizean operators had to pay.

 

Now Carnival has attempted to implement policies that would only allow boats carrying 150 passengers or more to transport passengers to the mainland. The problem is that local boat owners (boats owned by the Belizean people) only have a capacity to transport 100 passengers. This policy will put the Belizean boat owners out of business unless they buy larger boats. In order to do that, I would imagine that the cost of tendering the passengers would go up. Could it be that this is the reason for the higher transport fees? It would make sense to me.

 

I find it very unfair to blame the people of Belize for the underhanded dealings of the Carnival Cruise Line. Shame on them for bullying the people of this country and trying to take away their livelihoods.

[pitterpattershoppe]

Oh, ok...something completely out of the norm then.

 

Thanks for the follow-up.

 

-pitterpattershoppe :D

 

 

Sorry, Swine Flu that year:eek:

[mumzy1]

Wow, this is all really surprising. We visited both Roatan and Belize with RCL the week of Jan 9-16 and had a wonderful time (although Roatan is definitely the better stop). In Belize, two of our party of 5 went cave tubing (independently booked the extreme tour-not the best, but that's another topic). .

 

Who did you book the cave tubing with? We have it booked in April but at this point who knows if we are going to make it to that port:rolleyes:

[Lady Anna & Sir Troy]

Well, I have to say that the smaller tenders are not adequate for the larger ships. It takes a long time to get people to shore. We were on the Legend and by the time everyone had arrived on the pier for the tour we had waited in the bus for Major Tom's caving for two hours and missed lunch to make it back on time.

 

I prefer to use local tours but without the larger tenders (shorter wait time to get on shore) we have been using the ship's tours instead. :(

 

I certainly do not have the rest of the facts to make comments on previous arrangements and if the new arrangements are fair.

 

L.A.S.T.

[jessicas mom]

Who did you book the cave tubing with? We have it booked in April but at this point who knows if we are going to make it to that port:rolleyes:

 

I used Island Marketing (Belizecruiseexcursions.com), since I also used Island Marketing in Roatan. The island tour with extreme ziplining in Roatan was fabulous; the "X-stream" cave tubing was not. Their equipment was old (inner tubes not as nice as other tour groups and head lamps dim and barely functional-unlike other tours) and the spot where they entered the river was after most other tours and somewhat treacherous (the extreme part, I suppose). There was a nice box lunch provided afterward. The staff were very nice; however, their vehicle broke down once (quickly repaired) and was running on fumes, causing some concern about making it back on time. DH and DD both had a wonderful time anyway and considered it a great adventure.

[vfb2girls]

I used Island Marketing (Belizecruiseexcursions.com), since I also used Island Marketing in Roatan. The island tour with extreme ziplining in Roatan was fabulous; the "X-stream" cave tubing was not. Their equipment was old (inner tubes not as nice as other tour groups and head lamps dim and barely functional-unlike other tours) and the spot where they entered the river was after most other tours and somewhat treacherous (the extreme part, I suppose). There was a nice box lunch provided afterward. The staff were very nice; however, their vehicle broke down once (quickly repaired) and was running on fumes, causing some concern about making it back on time. DH and DD both had a wonderful time anyway and considered it a great adventure.

We are booked with IM for the ziplining tour also in Roatan, where did you end up going snorkeling? Also we would like to have some pictures taken of us ziplining but now sure just how to quite manage that, is there a guide that can use your camera and snap pictures? I am so looking forward to doing this excursion! And one more thing, was it hard to find your excursion guide?

[mumzy1]

I used Island Marketing (Belizecruiseexcursions.com), since I also used Island Marketing in Roatan. The island tour with extreme ziplining in Roatan was fabulous; the "X-stream" cave tubing was not. Their equipment was old (inner tubes not as nice as other tour groups and head lamps dim and barely functional-unlike other tours) and the spot where they entered the river was after most other tours and somewhat treacherous (the extreme part, I suppose). There was a nice box lunch provided afterward. The staff were very nice; however, their vehicle broke down once (quickly repaired) and was running on fumes, causing some concern about making it back on time. DH and DD both had a wonderful time anyway and considered it a great adventure.

 

Jessicas mom,

Well I feel better about the cave tubing. We have it booked through cave-tubing dot com. Which I have read many positives reviews, but I guess everyone can have a bad day every once in a while, just hope its not the day we are there. :D We have also booked the canopy ziplining tour in Roatan with Island Marketing. Due to the time difference and the time they assigned us to meet, we will just barely make the zipline and have to head back to the ship.