Costa Concordia SINKING

[JJSMaine]

I think those that are upset at some of the topics of conversation need to understand that some of us are in a form of shock over this... it is so unthinkable... we all share that connection of having been in these ships and have trusted that we would be safe.. it is a shock to watch this situation develop.. to watch the interviews with the families... to read about the missing father/daughter... the ever growing case against a Captain that acted "improperly" at the least and at the other end.. well.. we'll leave... suffice to say I am extremely upset at the pattern of behavior that is developing as we learn more.... and I can not imagine the horror of those in, or close to, the situation have and are enduring....

 

..so.. we jabber... to relieve the stress and share the experience... to vent and to help ourselves deal with this tragedy... I am a bit surprised at how strongly it has affected me...

[USNUZULOOSE]

Unfortunately the Italian courts / Police didn't cover themselves in glory over the Amanda Knox -Meredith Kercher murder case. I hope they do a better job this time around.....

 

 

Wasnt it something like 3 more months for something to continue in the trial. I think she had to wait from june to sept for court to reconvine? I saw how they handled eveidence, that was scary.

[SomeBeach]

Sorry, the black box COULD and DID record his conversation - just as it does when he is on the bridge with his handheld radio directing the crew. The way it works is that his frequency (and many others) are recorded regardless of where he is. The range on his handheld is in miles - not feet.

 

How do I know? I help develop some the software involved in these "black boxes" used in the maritime and aviation industries. His conversation was recorded if he used his handheld radio - which I am sure he did since that is the primary access to the Port Authority.

 

My question was going to be... would the PA have the ability to record telephone conversations?... as the article clearly states that telephones were used for communications between the two parties.

[RichS10]

I'm going to wrap up my time here, I'm certain all eyes will be dry upon my departure. This is what brought me to this forum....

 

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f106/packing-for-4-month-cruise-73061.html

 

SamandSally came to the above forum by mistake, but even so, the welcome mat was out for them. They left in such a hurry, I didn't get a chance to welcome them and the fact we all seem to share a love for the sea, I thought it proper to come here and invite them to enjoy the forum they stumbled across.

 

I did a proper intro on this forum here......

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1540617

 

and decided that there is no interest in the mechanical inner workings of a ship or any interest on how a ship provides potable water for all on board.

 

In the interest of this topic thread, I shared what both professional and recreational sailors were discussing pertaining to this accident from this thread.......

 

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f90/cruise-ship-74739.html

 

 

I have come to the conclusion from my experience on this forum that cruise ship patrons fall into two basic groups, those that love the sea, travel, new cultures, and a curiosity of a ship's systems. And the second group, that would be a more ego driven desire to be in a class status, micro-society, whereas 1st class suite, dining with the Captain, and recounting all your travels, is your form of popularity among peers. If you feel you are the first group, we will welcome you with open arms on the Cruiser's Forum, and who knows, after reading the posts over there you might become intrigued enough to take some sailing lessons, then do a bareboat charter, and who knows, purchase your own boat, live aboard and cruise the world. If you fall into the 2nd group, this forum is a perfect fit.

 

If you are interested in a 14 year old Dutch girl that has almost completed a solo circumnavigation, check out the travels of Laura Dekker here......

http://tbuckets.lefora.com/2011/11/21/laura-from-the-start-ages-12-to-14/

 

Respectfully,

 

Bob aka "deckofficer"

 

Bob:

 

Thanks for the knowledge, information and opinions you have contributed to this thread. I appreciate your points of view on several of the issues in this incredibly horrific situation. I think you may be right that the captain threaded the needle between those two islands. I guess we will know soon enough (especially if he punched openings into both sides of the hull).

 

You got a pretty good mauling here. Another group, the Cruiseline/Cruise Industry apologists and defenders, also seem always at the ready to spit fire if they don't like a person's point of view. Always been that way, probably always will be. (Its one of the reasons I don't spend much time here anymore).

 

Anyway, good luck and fair sailing.

Rich

[Spender Nui]

[quote name=

 

Even though the ship I am sailing on in less than a month has had two mishaps in the last week whereby they have damaged property due to mistakes in navigation' date=' I'm still willing to take the chance that perhaps this is just a one-off. But I will be more apt to check out where the lifejackets are, where the deck is that holds the lifeboats etc... and pay attention to the muster drill.

 

Most cruise ships are not paid off fully, that's a given. Banks have some interest there for sure![/quote]

 

What ship might that be and what were their mistakes?

[Countrygent]

Well put, sir. To add to your sea quotation:

 

"There is nothing more placid and calming than the sea, and yet, nothing more totally unforgiving of even the least bit of ignorance."

 

 

Thanks. There is no shortage of sailors' wisdom nor of terrifying incidents at sea through the ages, is there?

 

The wrecking and salvage companies are out there for good reason.

 

As for my observation concerning the Captain's conduct after the ship struck, maybe I was being too kind ... this story is now full of wild speculation and rumour about his conduct, but if he was eating dinner after he knew he had damage to his hull, or for self-serving purposes failed to get evacuation underway when the necessity was clear to a reasonable person ... my blood boils. I find it hard to believe some of the stories. Time will tell.

[cubella59]

According to a CNN INT'L report I saw tonight filmed from some Maritime Training Academy, the FIRST thing you do is turn off your engines to figure out to assess the damage.

 

 

this is good video, the ship's engine is shown as still running, should they not have shut it off? I don't know the protocol there, but it's frightening for sure.

there are also lots of lifeboats noted on this video that haven't been deployed.

I hope those people all got off safely.

scary times indeed :eek:

[Miss Fig]

Sorry, the black box COULD and DID record his conversation - just as it does when he is on the bridge with his handheld radio directing the crew. The way it works is that his frequency (and many others) are recorded regardless of where he is. The range on his handheld is in miles - not feet.

 

How do I know? I help develop some the software involved in these "black boxes" used in the maritime and aviation industries. His conversation was recorded if he used his handheld radio - which I am sure he did since that is the primary access to the Port Authority.

 

How cool! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[Miss Fig]

According to a CNN INT'L report I saw tonight filmed from some Maritime Training Academy, the FIRST thing you do is turn off your engines to figure out to assess the damage.

 

 

A slight correction - the first thing you do is stop the vessel's motion - you do NOT turn the engine's off. I saw the same CNN report.

[Hebersgyll]

There is a difference between monitoring and reviewing. Costa is getting real time data (or slight delay data) from its ships 24/7. I sincerely doubt anyone reviews all that data on a regular basis. In addition, to spot a problem, someone would have to know those specific waters.

 

Given that this was something that was apparently done many times prior without incident, there would be no reason for a data point aberration to show unless someone who knew those specific waters happened to look at the data and noticed the shortened margin for error.

 

That's all fair comment, Loonbeam. However, at the company press conference it was stated that an audible alarm would sound on the bridge if a significant departure from the pre-planned route occurred..... so, perhaps some kind of alarm should activate at company HQ at the same time?

 

Procedures should then require the captain to briefly inform HQ of the reason for the deviation... might be weather conditions, response to nearby emergency, whatever. At least HQ has some understanding of what is happening out there... which avoids the risk of the kind of behaviour which led to this disaster? If no such report is received from the ship the coourse alteration would be questioned from HQ. (Depending on the timescale for intervention, of course.)

 

I'm guessing that systems of this kind also need to be in place in case of terrorist attacks on ships including the Somalia type and the more sophisticated kind not yet experienced?

 

The inquiry into this tragedy should also look closely at the actions of the first officer, navigation offficer, officer i/c of ship's security and others in their not effectively challenging the navigational course taken by the ship?

[USNUZULOOSE]

They have a concern for the fuel, is there a reason why they arent there taking the fuel out? And then get this ship sitting upright? I dont know how things work in this manner. If they could do this at least it would be easier to check the ship for other passengers.

[bobsig]

My question was going to be... would the PA have the ability to record telephone conversations?... as the article clearly states that telephones were used for communications between the two parties.

 

In my opinion, 100% chance the calls were recorded if by telephone. Call any authority anywhere and about a 99.99% chance your call will be recorded...it is the CYA of the world now.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

There has been a lot of questions ask regarding the 'Black box' device onboard and how long it will take for the information to start coming to public knowledge.

 

Initially the will be handed over to the Italian Marine Accident branch, part of the Government. The information on the device will be given a preliminary decoding to get the basic information out of it, this could be a matter of days to a week.

 

A transcript of this informtion will then be circulated to the relevant Government departments to satisfy legal eagles. The box is then fully decoded, every thing is transcripted on to paper with details on who made the transmission and at what time, what was said and even pauses. Nothing is missed out, even if someone coughs, sneezes or says 'um' 'ah' or 'oh'. Snap shots of radar plots, navigation systems, AIS, DSC and onboard systems are also normally covered.

 

This information will allow a picture to be formed on what has caused this incident, the next part, and more than likely the hardest part is getting statements from various authorities, passengers, crews, witnesses as to what they say/saw/did.

 

Once all this takes place then full legal proceedings are likely to begin.

 

How do I know this, I was involved in a large incident some years ago and its basically what happened, though in this case it was 'pollution' that was the big problem as there had been no loss of life. Still must be doing something right Im still in the job all these years later

 

:)

[Topsham]

I read somewhere that the captain joined costa cruises 11 years ago and started as a security officer.

 

If this is true, it doesn't sound like anywhere near enough experience to be responsible for nearly 5000 lives and a billion dollar vessel to me....

 

 

No, he joined Costa as a Navigating Officer with the rank of either First Officer or Chief Officer with special responsibility for safety so the position becomes SAFETY OFFICER. Further promotion would be to Staff Captain and then Captain.

 

I understand he is age 50. If that is so his seagoing career is probably at least 32 to 35 years.

[RBCL]

They have a concern for the fuel, is there a reason why they arent there taking the fuel out? And then get this ship sitting upright? I dont know how things work in this manner. If they could do this at least it would be easier to check the ship for other passengers.

 

Because seas are getting rough and the ship is starting to slip. It would be a tremendously dangerous task at this moment.

[ObscureAllure]

My question was going to be... would the PA have the ability to record telephone conversations?... as the article clearly states that telephones were used for communications between the two parties.

 

And that the captain was on the lifeboat (not near the PA) or at the taxi drivers house (again, not near the PA) ... And considering the bridge was at an 80* tilt around that time, I can't see the port officer standing on the bridge (which was almost horizontal) calling him from the ship, either. Why wouldn't he call the captain on the ground using his own cellular phone? (As the previous article stated he did) ...

 

That's where my question came in. If it's cell phones as both articles clearly state it was, how would the black box record it? Do black boxes now record the cellular calls, also? They are so damn high-tech now, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Enigm@]

It was originally reported in the uk as being in a cabin.... However there is a lot of information going about and i may have missed an update so you may be right.

 

I'll back you up here. It was indeed initially reported in the UK that two elderly gentlemen, (one Italian & one Spaniard iirc,) were found sitting in their submerged cabins, each wearing their life jackets. As we know though, these articles are being constantly updated as new information comes in but we ourselves don't always go back to read something we have already read. It seems the articles have now been changed. Some say a public area, some say restaurant. :)

[mwedge]

No, he joined Costa as a Navigating Officer with the rank of either First Officer or Chief Officer with special responsibility for safety so the position becomes SAFETY OFFICER. Further promotion would be to Staff Captain and then Captain.

 

I understand he is age 50. If that is so his seagoing career is probably at least 32 to 35 years.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16584591

 

Here is my source....

[AAAAmerican]

Again we all need to pray not just for the departed of Jan. Friday the 13th, 2012 a.d. but now more are missing.

 

Please COSTA help the people more!!

 

[SomeBeach]

In my opinion, 100% chance the calls were recorded if by telephone. Call any authority anywhere and about a 99.99% chance your call will be recorded...it is the CYA of the world now.

 

Thank you bobsig. I couldn't wrap my mind around the black box recording it but I could with the PA having the ability to record the conversation.

[itzmered]

Still hoping a praying for those still missing. The American Couple is from the area I live in here is an article about them http://kstp.com/news/stories/S2454839.shtml?cat=1

[Davyjonesrugrat]

And that the captain was on the lifeboat (not near the PA) or at the taxi drivers house (again, not near the PA) ... And considering the bridge was at an 80* tilt around that time, I can't see the port officer standing on the bridge (which was almost horizontal) calling him from the ship, either. Why wouldn't he call the captain on the ground using his own cellular phone? (As the previous article stated he did) ...

 

That's where my question came in. If it's cell phones as both articles clearly state it was, how would the black box record it? Do black boxes now record the cellular calls, also? They are so damn high-tech now, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

 

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If the phone was a 'company' phone the box may have also been programmed to record these calls also. Hand on heart though I dont think that this is likely and would be more inclined to think it was radio comms (VHF CH16) or the local harbour channel.

 

:)

[turbo321]

According to a CNN INT'L report I saw tonight filmed from some Maritime Training Academy, the FIRST thing you do is turn off your engines to figure out to assess the damage.

 

It may have been off but would have been giving off heat signatures for a long time after being shut down. It appears what you are seeing in the video is heat not smoke.

[deckofficer]

Bob:

 

Thanks for the knowledge, information and opinions you have contributed to this thread. I appreciate your points of view on several of the issues in this incredibly horrific situation. I think you may be right that the captain threaded the needle between those two islands. I guess we will know soon enough (especially if he punched openings into both sides of the hull).

 

You got a pretty good mauling here. The Cruiseline/Cruise Industry apologists and defenders seem always at the ready to spit fire if they don't like a person's point of view. Always been that way, probably always will be. (Its one of the reasons I don't spend much time here anymore).

 

Anyway, good luck and fair sailing.

Rich

 

Rich,

 

Thank you for that. I think I gave up here after I stated "I hadn't been on a modern bridge" and posters here saw that as a further deficit of my knowledge. The Costa ship involved was built just 5 years ago. I haven't been on the bridge for 10 years and wasn't certain of new digital recording techniques for documentation. Prior to 10 years ago I spent 6 months a year on the bridge.

 

My warmest welcome for you to join me on the above mentioned forums. My username is "deckofficer" on all of them and to end on an uplifting note, read up on that last forum I mentioned on a truly amazing young sailor named Laura Dekker. I will be the first to admit that this 14 year old girl could sail circles around me. In all my life I have never known such a natural and gifted sailor, no matter what she is sailing, from the tall ship "Amsterdam" with its multitude of sails, all the way down to a Mini-Cat inflatable catamaran sail boat that I've seen her fly a hull on in heavy weather, it is a sixth sense for her, she quickly dials in.

[ObscureAllure]

If the phone was a 'company' phone the box may have also been programmed to record these calls also. Hand on heart though I dont think that this is likely and would be more inclined to think it was radio comms (VHF CH16) or the local harbour channel.

 

:)

 

Thanks, that makes more sense!

 

 

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