Safety? Kinda freaking out right now...

[flashdog_1]

It's a real tragedy although most of the people on board survived TG. I kept thinking about the babies and old folks who might be pushed aside (as described by one Austrailian couple who survived).

 

Growing up I never understood the women and children first business, but perhaps now I do,(after having read about men pushing same aside so the men could enter a lifeboat first) if it means because they might not be as strong as the men. I'd like to add "elderlY and disabled' into the women and children first clause!

 

I found it interesting that one comment on another thread written by someone who knew about non-passenger specific ships (freighters which do carry some passengers but not in the numbers as cruise ships do) which are required to have enough life boats on both sides to accommodate ALL passengers and crew for just such an incident as the one w/Concordia. If that were a known commodity, perhaps there'd not be all that pushing and shoving in the emergency.

[capriciousc]

I understand your worry, but all in all as a healthy couple you will be fine, the hardest part is keeping your head during something like this, it is not like your little one will be alone. If it was an older kid and you would have large parts of the cruise apart that would be my worry, not having a plan on where to meet up. Have a plan for a meeting place on ship if there is time and a place off ship if something happens. We use a Police station, there is always one no matter where you will be, and if there are a few, the police and contact the other stations to help you meet up.

 

I think having a plan is key. DH and I are both kind of (read: very) anal-retentive, so we always have accident/disaster plans in place. Whenever we fly, we have a plan for how we will evacuate the airplane in the event of an accident, who is responsible for DD, etc. I would suggest doing the same for your upcoming cruise. Go to the muster drill, pay close attention, and afterward discuss exactly what you'll do if something goes wrong. Then, knowing your plan is in place, relax and try to enjoy your cruise :)

[OasisFamily2011]

Our first cruise with our children was last year. We have another one planned this spring.

 

We have a 7 and 8 year old and have always brought appropriate life vests for them on vacations where we are going to be doing water-related activities whether we'll be on an actual boat or not. I would not be nervous about bringing an infant or very young child, they are with you the whole time on most cruise lines.

 

After hearing the stories from the Concordia, I am slightly nervous about leaving my kids in the children's program. I'm sure in a couple of months this will have faded from my mind , and I'll let them go, but, in the case of a very serious emergency, do I really want to rely on ship's crew to get my kids to a muster station?

 

My daughter and son have asked lots of questions about the Concordia, and we have explained it factually and discussed what we would do if there was an emergency on the ship. They don't seem freaked out or worried about our upcoming vacation.

[MrsZee]

I'm not going to lie, this event has got me extremely nervous about dropping our son off at the kid's camp. I have no doubt I could keep my head in this situation and get us off as safely as we can... but if I can't get to my child, I would probably lose my S$&%.

[CeleBrat]

I'm not going to lie, this event has got me extremely nervous about dropping our son off at the kid's camp. I have no doubt I could keep my head in this situation and get us off as safely as we can... but if I can't get to my child, I would probably lose my S$&%.

 

Indeed! Like many of us who have been on a cruise before, I'm sure we've thought about the events the last few days and thought "what would I have done?"

 

Although the Kids Clubs assure you that they will deliver your kids to their muster stations, I can't imagine how that would work in a REAL disaster like this, with conflicting info, unruly crowds, and a short time frame to evacuate.

 

DH and I are going to think this one through and come up with a plan. Something like I sprint up to the Kids Clubs (hoping that both kids are in the same place and not at two different activities on opposite ends of the ship) while he sprints to the cabin to grab the life vests and passports. Then we all meet at the muster station.

 

Hmmmm....

 

CeleBrat

[CeleBrat]

Ok...browsing through more on-line coverage today, I came across this article from REUTERS, which included the following quote:

 

Many praised individual crew members, who tried their best to reassure frightened passengers but said there was a clear lack of direction from the ship's officers.

"It was quite surreal, the contrast between the smiles and jokes of the miniclub (playgroup) staff and the ghastly look in the eyes of the children," said Luciano Castro, 48, as he recounted the efforts of child minders in red clown noses to keep infants calm.

 

 

Link to article here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/17/us-italy-ship-crew-idUSTRE80G1D120120117

 

 

 

So, the Kids Club Staff did their jobs and didn't abandon the children. Phew!

 

 

CeleBrat

[dsrdsrdsr]

After hearing the stories from the Concordia, I am slightly nervous about leaving my kids in the children's program. I'm sure in a couple of months this will have faded from my mind , and I'll let them go, but, in the case of a very serious emergency, do I really want to rely on ship's crew to get my kids to a muster station?

It's only like leaving them in school. Emergencies happen in schools, and you trust the staff to cope.

[crenee44]

There were so many "problems" with this entire incident. First, for some reason, Costa/Carnival allows people to embark on this ship at four different ports, and thereby not having muster drills for many passengers. According to many reports, the Concordia has a muster drill every 15 days, which means many passengers never get to have a drill. Why Costa/Carnival has this kind of itinerary is beyond me, but I have the feeling that they will stop this in the future.

 

 

We were on the Costa Magica last Spring on the same itinerary, except we went in the opposite direction. We LOVED the fact that people got on and off in several ports. We were able to just walk right on at the start and right off at the end. It was so nice and a lot less stressful.

 

 

We were just saying the other day that we hope this disaster doesn’t put an end to these types of itineraries, assuming they can figure out something for the muster drill. In our case, we had a mandatory meeting for all embarking English speakers on the first night before we left port. While not a true muster, they did show a safety video, go over how to use the life vest, find your muster station, etc. We each had a red card in our room that we had to hand in as a way of taking attendance. I haven’t heard any of the Concordia survivors mention a meeting like this so I wonder if they did away with it. There was a formal muster the day the largest number of passengers boarded, which ended up being our last night. We were not required to attend.

[ToddlerMom]

It's only like leaving them in school. Emergencies happen in schools, and you trust the staff to cope.

 

I don't think it's quite comparable. At my daughter's school, the staff has undergone state mandated background checks. They are investigated by the state to make sure they follow state guidelines about following safety procedures. But the most important difference is that if something went wrong, there would be accountability. I could sue. A cruise ship is flagged in some foreign country. What accountability is there? Can you sue the cruiseline if there is an incident? Of course I'm not saying that a lawsuit makes up for an injury to your child but the fear of huge financial ramifications causes people who care for children to be more careful.

[dsrdsrdsr]

Don't worry about it, toddlermum. They have negligence laws in Italy too. If your daughter had drowned in the Costa Concordia, you could have sued the pants off them.

 

For whatever good that would do you. I can't see how it would help, myself - but I would hope it's the thought of vengeance rather than the thought of all that money.

 

Besides, do you know how much cruise ships cost? I assure you, the cost of replacing one is high enough that cruise lines do try and take care not to lose one.

[BLAMBKY]

I don't think it's quite comparable. At my daughter's school, the staff has undergone state mandated background checks. They are investigated by the state to make sure they follow state guidelines about following safety procedures. But the most important difference is that if something went wrong, there would be accountability. I could sue. A cruise ship is flagged in some foreign country. What accountability is there? Can you sue the cruiseline if there is an incident? Of course I'm not saying that a lawsuit makes up for an injury to your child but the fear of huge financial ramifications causes people who care for children to be more careful.

 

I politely disagree with the fear of financial ramifications... I work with children daily. I believe those that accept positions of caring for children do so because the have a tender heart for kids. We want to DO our best because we simply want the best for all children, not the fear of lawsuits. There is a video on YouTube of the "kid area" on the ship, Crown Princess, when the 2006 sever list happened. What I noticed was the way they kept pulling, removing children to get to others still stuck. Did they comfort each child as they pulled them out? No, there are still more caught. IF MY child was the one still caught, i would be so thankful of their actions. On the left of the screen, you may even see a worker comforting, checking out a child. This all happens within a few minutes. These care providers were acting instinctively. :o

[ToddlerMom]

Don't worry about it, toddlermum. They have negligence laws in Italy too. If your daughter had drowned in the Costa Concordia, you could have sued the pants off them.

 

For whatever good that would do you. I can't see how it would help, myself - but I would hope it's the thought of vengeance rather than the thought of all that money.

 

Besides, do you know how much cruise ships cost? I assure you, the cost of replacing one is high enough that cruise lines do try and take care not to lose one.

 

Italian laws don't apply. The laws of the country that flags the ship apply.

[lmg1230]

In an emergency situation, whether it be at school or on a ship, you are relying on another person to put the safety of your child and other children ahead of their own well-being. If it is a life-threatening situation the responsible adults are expected to get the children to safety without worrying about themselves. Having extensive background checks or fear of lawsuits won't guarantee that this happens. In an emergency situation, even good people who are highly trained can panic. There is simply no way of knowing ahead of time who will act heroically and who will try to save themselves. As parents dropping a child off in someone else's care, we trust that the caregivers will ensure that our child is evacuated in an emergency but we really have no idea what will happen in a worst case scenario.

 

Lisa

[nessz79]

In an emergency situation, whether it be at school or on a ship, you are relying on another person to put the safety of your child and other children ahead of their own well-being. If it is a life-threatening situation the responsible adults are expected to get the children to safety without worrying about themselves. Having extensive background checks or fear of lawsuits won't guarantee that this happens. In an emergency situation, even good people who are highly trained can panic. There is simply no way of knowing ahead of time who will act heroically and who will try to save themselves. As parents dropping a child off in someone else's care, we trust that the caregivers will ensure that our child is evacuated in an emergency but we really have no idea what will happen in a worst case scenario.

 

Lisa

 

Yes, this. You have to trust them as you would trust a teacher. A teacher isn't motivated by lawsuits...they are motivated by their care and love for the children. And if that's not enough to motivate them and they act selfishly..well, that could happen to anyone, no matter how well-trained. After all, look at the captain. He was arrested and will be held accountable. I'm sure he was aware of the trouble he could get in, but he was more in fear for his own life than others'.

 

In the end, we have to live our lives. It can be very scary. Scenarios might go through our minds about what could go wrong. But if you live your life being afraid of what might happen, you can't enjoy all the good things that will come your way either.

[dsrdsrdsr]

Italian laws don't apply. The laws of the country that flags the ship apply.

Costa Cruises are an Italian company with ships built in Italy, registered in Italy, crewed by Italians and sailing from Italy. You can send your child on a Costa ship, quite safe in the knowledge that you'll be able to sue if she drowns.

 

I would like to see a link for your quote about the laws applying only in the country where the ship is registered, because I find it hard to believe. If I sign a contract under English law with P&O (as I fairly frequently do), it would be absolutely illegal for P&O to exclude most of the laws of England from this contract. It simply couldn't happen under the Unfair Contract Terms Act, among others. So if the UK company P&O commits either a breach of contract or a tort of negligence, I can sue them under English law.

 

I'd be very surprised if other countries aren't the same. But if not, stick with Costa - your legal rights are safe with them. Even if your life isn't.