Cunard to Leave Manhattan for Brooklyn

[Jeanne S]

Rotterdam,

 

I agree with you completely. My wife and I sailed out of Bayonne in July on the Enchantment of the Seas. Boy, what a disappointment! The view was absolutely hideous.

 

Ed

 

Hi Ed! How have you and Sandy been? So my upcomining trips on the Zenith and VOS out of Bayonne are not to be highly anticipated. "Cape Liberty" works for me simply as I live in Staten Island.

 

We went there to check it out and it did not seem too bad, although it was just from the outside. Zenith was in port and looked very nice. I understand we will be bused from check in to the ship then climb some ratchecty staircase to board the ship.

 

As far as Brooklyn goes Rotterdam, where are they going to fit Queen Mary2?

[Rotterdam]

The NY Times did show a rendering of the new piers...they do look quite nice(as compared to the current Manhattan piers). Unfortunately the location does not afford the views of sailing down the West Side in the Hudson - so The Chrysler, Empire , Equitable Buildings will be far away. There will be no views across Mnahattan when sailing past 34th & 42nd Streets. There will be no tradition of sailing from MANHATTAN. as one poster said gridlock here or there doesn't matter. But when you come to NYC - you want to be in NYC.

 

Hopefully Carnivore will see fit to at least have the Transatlantics start & end in Manhattan when the West Side piers are rebuilt.

 

"What ever happened to class?"

[cunarder]

Hi Jeane,

 

All is well here. Just enjoying the hot, humid weather (yea right). I run almost every day in this and I'm ready for fall now. Give me temps in the 70's any day.

 

All you see from the ship are empty lots, old buildings, and loading areas. We had to look through the loading dock and cranes to see the Statue of Liberty from our balcony. Just not a pretty sight and even more envious when we saw a Carnivore ship coming out of the Manhattan skyline past our "hole" just before we sailed. For a moment, I wish I had been on that Carnivore ship (but I never would).

 

The terminal is a long way from the ship. You really have to take the shuttle. Needless to say, that was not a great experience (especially when we got off the ship - what a zoo) for our trip anyway. For the Enchantment, we did not have a bad ramp at all.

 

As far as Cape Liberty, we saw no security at all. Anyone and everyone was driving into the area. No checkpoints or guards. I guess they figure nobody would go to Bayonne.

 

Have a great cruise(s).

 

Ed

[Jeanne S]

Hi Jeane,

 

Just not a pretty sight and even more envious when we saw a Carnivore ship coming out of the Manhattan skyline past our "hole" just before we sailed. For a moment, I wish I had been on that Carnivore ship (but I never would).

 

 

As far as Cape Liberty, we saw no security at all. Anyone and everyone was driving into the area. No checkpoints or guards. I guess they figure nobody would go to Bayonne.

 

Have a great cruise(s).

 

Ed

Thanks! I can't wait - less than 2 weeks now and I'm not doing any official ship excursions as on the Queen last November whereby for each port- 5 days in a row – we did an excursion. If we do one it will be a catamaran sailing, but I just want to hop in a taxi and go to the beach, do a little shopping, take the ferry to The Dockyard and otherwise lounge around the pool. I actually plan to sleep late this time as there is no reason to get up at 5:30 out of habit. Part of the reason I always got up so early is so that I did not want to miss a minute of the cruise, but then always wind exhausted after disembarkation. I need to learn to relax.

 

Speaking of Carnivore, earlier this week when the Queen was in port I left work to get the ferry that usually meets up with the ship at 5:45-6pm in upper NY Bay, however, we met up the Carnivore Legend, QM2 not having left its berth yet. Usually the Queen goes first, but this is the second time this summer she has left at 6 and not 5pm so I kept missing her. All these people were hanging over the Legend’s rails (had been on this ship on a 2 day cruise to nowhere – the last time I go on this line – and thought it to be the gloomiest and gaudiest ship yet) yelling “we’re going to TORDOADA.”

 

At Cape Liberty we were able to just drive in, park and walk all around. No one questioned us. The thing is if you go when a ship is not in port the guard house is manned and they won’t let you in. We had tried several times to visit and were stopped at the gate. So coming home from the Liberty (it seems everything in NJ begins with Liberty now) Science Center, we stopped off when we saw Zenith was in port and found the guardhouse empty!

 

What do you think of our dear Captain being temporarily assigned to Princess?

 

Jeanne

[Jeanne S]

 

Hopefully Carnivore will see fit to at least have the Transatlantics start & end in Manhattan when the West Side piers are rebuilt.

 

 

You know how the new Queen sticks out in the Hudson so far - do the Brooklyn piers have longer capacity? Am trying to envision where exactly this pier will be built. Is it to be just south of where the elevated BQE makes the turn and goes down into the trench (by LICH)?

 

Jeanne

[guernseyguy]

Am trying to envision where exactly this pier will be built. Is it to be just south of where the elevated BQE makes the turn and goes down into the trench (by LICH)?

 

Jeanne,

 

See here:http://*****.com/dc5um

 

Peter

[cunarder]

Jeanne,

 

I hope you can sleep in. I still awoke at 5:00 on the Enchantment. Old habits are hard to break - even on vacation for me.

 

I was also hoping to see the QM2 when we arrived back in Bayonne on Enchantment. She sailed in before us and with the heavy fog that morning, I didn't get a chance to see her.

 

Anyway, I'm sure Captain Wright probably isn't the happiest guy leaving the QM2 but, I'm sure he will take it with the class that he exudes. I wasn't happy when I heard but I would love to have his job even if it was on Princess. Sure beats an 8 to 5 job.

 

I hope to sail with him again but we schedule our cruises so far in advance that God knows where he will be at the time.

 

Princess/Cunard sure knows how to screw things up these days no matter how hard they tell us that they aren't changing anything.

 

Ed

[Rotterdam]

Jeanne - I don't know the names of the streets over there - but the port will be near the Heights & Red Hook.

 

I know part of the problem of size will be resolved because the NYC piers were built pre mega mall / ships.

 

The FRANCE & QE2 were the largest ships at the time.....oh I miss those days...

[Ab Ovo]

Did anyone get this reading of it all?

 

Working piers in Manhattan aren't in great shape. Lines have been lost to Bayonne.

 

New York City set out to build a world-class ship terminal.........turns out it's in Brooklyn and should be up & running this time next year. This new facility on south Brooklyn Piers 11 and 12 will have customs and immigration under one roof, is touted to be a $40 million design.

 

Now. How ya' gonna' sell this and not lose more lines to Bayonne? You sign on a dedicated user. Thus the Brooklyn facility is to be used exclusively by Princess Cruise Lines. Say what you will, Princess now owns Cunard. Not much will be made in the press about Princecess ships moving anywhere. But the Queen Mary 2 sailing from a new $40 million terminal? That's news! Bigtime!

 

And so, space for 4,000 passengers and parking for nearly 500 automobiles and Brooklyn will become the norm for Princess next year..........while over in Manhattan, the New York Passenger Ship Terminal on the far West Side will get a complete re-do, renovation or rebuild. While this is being done, where else can the QM2 go but Brooklyn? That's the way I remember it.

 

THEN, when there is a safe and proper new facility replacing the pier taking all the hits on this board now, it is most suitable that the Queen Mary 2 return for New York City arrivals and departures back home, at the end of West 50th Street. Thus it was written, thus it is to be done.

 

Anyone else see it that way? I know I wasn't drinking!

[Lepine]

What is the point, exactly, of moving it to Brooklyn? I did not hear what the reason was.

 

The Manhattan skyline and the Statue of Liberty are so unavoidably moving. And why dock such a great ship in Brooklyn?! I know Brooklyn has its charms, but it's Brooklyn. I mean, humility and elagilitarianism are very fine and dandy, but this is QM2. Are we going to humble the Queen? (As I recall the American Revolution was a few centuries ago! Are we still going there?;) )

[guernseyguy]

I'm not sure the whole story has been told - certainly the piers in Manhattan are dreadful and need upgrading - but I also wonder about the QM2's stern sticking 100 feet out into the Hudson - they could hardly say 'it isn't safe' while continuing to do it......it also may be cheaper to dock in Brooklyn.....so far the reasons seem a bit thin....other than the 'need to upgrade'.

 

Peter

[smeyer418]

Jeanne - I don't know the names of the streets over there - but the port will be near the Heights & Red Hook.

 

I know part of the problem of size will be resolved because the NYC piers were built pre mega mall / ships.

 

The FRANCE & QE2 were the largest ships at the time.....oh I miss those days...

The Pier that is being set up is Pier 12. Its in Red Hook Brooklyn(now called Liberty View for its View of the Statue of Liberty). Its by Canover Street(the Snapple warehouse). Not Brooklyn Heights. Its part of the rebuilding and adding ships to NY. NCL will have three ships now in the summer. With two ships all year round. It will also be using this pier-not just Cunard and Princess. Even with Bayonne there is not enough Passenger ship terminal space in NY. NY has been the fastest growing cruise ship homeport in the US(mostly because of NCL) Now the other cruise lines have seen the wisdom of that move. No one thought that all year around cruising from NY was possible.

[Jeanne S]

Jeanne,

 

See here:http://*****.com/dc5um

 

Peter

 

 

Thanks Peter! To think that I live and work blocks away and a gentleman from the UK had to assist me! If you type in 195 PierrePont and zip code 11201 it shows how close this is to work and my view. No I know exactly where this is and this highway, the Brooklyn Queens Expressway (BQE)'s Atlantic Ave Exit is already a nightmare. How they would get access to those arriving in motor vehicles is going to be something else. If everyone thought the traffic situation for the NYC passenger terminal was bad......

 

This is great, Now I can feast my eyes on this from work.

[Jeanne S]

The Pier that is being set up is Pier 12. Its in Red Hook Brooklyn(now called Liberty View for its View of the Statue of Liberty). Its by Canover Street(the Snapple warehouse). Not Brooklyn Heights. Its part of the rebuilding and adding ships to NY. NCL will have three ships now in the summer. With two ships all year round. It will also be using this pier-not just Cunard and Princess. Even with Bayonne there is not enough Passenger ship terminal space in NY. NY has been the fastest growing cruise ship homeport in the US(mostly because of NCL) Now the other cruise lines have seen the wisdom of that move. No one thought that all year around cruising from NY was possible.

 

Am confused.

 

What Peter sent me is at the Bottom of Brooklyn Heights. Do you have a map of the red hook pier 12? Are you saying NCL will be using this pier 12. What will Carnival/Cunard/Princess be using the?

 

Thanks

 

Jeanne

[mtbny7]

Wasn't year round cruising from NYC "the norm" from 1930's to the early 1970's?

 

I think it was the advent of cheap air travel that made Miami the port of choice for vacationers... "Why sail a day or two in cold rough seas when we could fly to Miami and have a warm-weather holiday right away?" was the big question/demand.

 

Michael

 

PS: I think a new modern facility in Brooklyn is a great idea... please! I'd be happy to sail from a modern facility in Conn or NJ... anything to get away from those "sheds" on the West Side.

[Jeanne S]

 

 

 

PS: I think a new modern facility in Brooklyn is a great idea... please! I'd be happy to sail from a modern facility in Conn or NJ... anything to get away from those "sheds" on the West Side.

 

You and I should be the first ones on line at the pier Michael as we seem to be the lone appreciators of Brooklyn. They really are old sheds.

[smeyer418]

Wasn't year round cruising from NYC "the norm" from 1930's to the early 1970's?

 

I think it was the advent of cheap air travel that made Miami the port of choice for vacationers... "Why sail a day or two in cold rough seas when we could fly to Miami and have a warm-weather holiday right away?" was the big question/demand.

 

Michael

 

PS: I think a new modern facility in Brooklyn is a great idea... please! I'd be happy to sail from a modern facility in Conn or NJ... anything to get away from those "sheds" on the West Side.

No what the was the norm back then was traveling back and forth to Europe not Carribean anything. Also it wasn't cruising as we know it. The Carribean cruising was also a creation of the old NCL(norwegian carribean line). The agreement with the city has NCL agreeing to stay and use NY- as opposed to NJ piers. I do think that while re-doing the west side piers takes place all will be using Brooklyn at some time. I don't believe there is any deep water port in CT that can support a cruise ship.

[Jeanne S]

No what the was the norm back then was traveling back and forth to Europe not Carribean anything. Also it wasn't cruising as we know it. The Carribean cruising was also a creation of the old NCL(norwegian carribean line). The agreement with the city has NCL agreeing to stay and use NY- as opposed to NJ piers. I do think that while re-doing the west side piers takes place all will be using Brooklyn at some time. I don't believe there is any deep water port in CT that can support a cruise ship.

 

What about travel from NYC to South America? And from April to NOvember there was always Furness Line to Bermuda.

[mtbny7]

No what the was the norm back then was traveling back and forth to Europe not Carribean anything. Also it wasn't cruising as we know it. The Carribean cruising was also a creation of the old NCL(norwegian carribean line). The agreement with the city has NCL agreeing to stay and use NY- as opposed to NJ piers. I do think that while re-doing the west side piers takes place all will be using Brooklyn at some time. I don't believe there is any deep water port in CT that can support a cruise ship.

 

 

There have always been Caribbean cruises from New York... esp during the winter "off-seasons" of tranAtlantic travel. I have many fun brochures in my collection for various "pleasure cruises" from the '30's to the '70's... some made by the great Cunard liners, as well as SS United States, SS France, etc.

 

Michael

[pompey1]

After looking at the map that was put up i can now see that the QM2 has no chance of sailing past the statue of liberty on the way in, So glad i have already done this.

This is all part of the Transatlantic Trip and should be noted by all concerned.

Cunard have not yet Said this will Happen but we know it will.

Does the 2006 brochure not say (as you sail up the hudson past the statue of liberty):mad: :mad: :mad:

[guernseyguy]

The 'honour' of being the first ship to dock in Brooklyn at the new terminal falls to P&O's ORIANA on Saturday. A temporary facility is being rigged, as the work will not be completed until April 06. And if that was not enough, Mayor Bloomberg will be there to greet them.

 

Read all about it!: http://*****.com/az3ym

 

Peter

[guernseyguy]

The 'honour' of being the first ship to dock in Brooklyn at the new terminal falls to P&O's ORIANA

 

Actually, since they've decided to name their newest barge 'VENTURA', it probably couldn't have happened to nicer people!

 

http://*****.com/7kpq8

 

Peter

[transat]

The Brooklyn move is bad, very bad for Cunard/QM2. These ships are all about the heritage and history of the North Atlantic crossing. A departure/arrival at Manhattan is very much part of the passenger's overall experience. I think is is important to write/email Carnival regarding this. I havel They do listen to their customers and if enough people express disappointment, it may have some effect. I am shocked that New York Passenger Ship terminal did not fight to keep them there. Or perhaps those docks are to shut down as well.

[guernseyguy]

I've read people mention this before, but had not found any hard data...but on the new New York Cruise Terminal Web Site: http://www.nycruiseterminal.com/index.cfm

 

there is the following statement:

 

At the request of Carnival Corporation, an application will be made to extend the terminal's mooring capacity further into the Hudson River so that a 1,200-foot-long berth, large enough to accommodate the Queen Mary 2 and other ships that extend over 1,000 feet, can be built.

 

See here: http://www.nycruiseterminal.com/future.cfm

 

So, perhaps the move to Brooklyn is temporary....and perhaps it is associated with having her stern sticking out into the Hudson.....

 

Peter

[KenC]

It beats me as to what people expect??? The NY Cruise Terminal is so obviously inadequate for current requirements and they plan to redevelop it over the next 30 years (yes, 30 years!!!). OK, so for a few years passengers departing will miss the experience of sailing past Lower Manhattan (it seems to me that the early morning arrival in the dark is a bit overstated). But where do people think that QM2 and other large cruise ships are going to berth while this rebuilding is going on?

 

It's a pity that this clamour of discontent hadn't been aimed at the NY Cruise Terminal over the past decades, it's not as if they didn't realise these piers had woefully inadequate facilities which were just rusting away.

 

Konfused Ken

 

PS ... Peter does one take it that you are not a fan of the Grand Class ship? Ventura? Give me Canberra 2 anyday!!!!