RUMOR re Queen Victoria, and more!

[geopa]

Does anyone know how well the "The Path of Magellan" cruises are selling so far. IMHO the QM2 is too large a ship for such a nitch market cruise. I think the Caronia or either of the Princess ships in question would have a much better chance sailing full, QM2 just has too many cabin to fill.

I belive that Celebrity sent one of their Century class ship to South America a few years ago and had problems selling out-- air fare was more than the cost of the cruise. Granted that Cunard and X are not the same type of cruise line but I just wonder how many people there are to pony up that kind of money on air fare for a short segment / how many people can take that kind of time off for an extended cruise

Still for Cunard sake I hope that it sells well.

[KenC]

It never ceases to amaze me how people continually look to the past. If Cunard had not taken a huge (and then highly criticised) leap forward in the 1960's then QE2 would not have been built in the first place let alone be sailing today. Yet today people talk about her as if she dates from some golden age long ago and is now the only passenger ship worth sailing on.

 

For one who would like to sail more on Cunard (and misses Caronia), but wants more choice than a modern mega transatlantic liner or a rather old faded one, I would welcome some new tonnage especially of the calibre of the former R ships.

 

With regard discounting, it appears to me that Cunard now cleverly use the 'upgrade' to disguise the amount of discounting used to fill QE2. On our recent QE2 weekend we paid C2 but got P2 and our table companions paid M guarantee and got P3. Bunk beds in the 21st Century - I ask you!

[JohnEZ]

"Cruising" was a phenomenon that came well after the hey-day of the trans-Atlantic trade.

Richard

 

With all due respect, Richard, I beg to differ.

 

Caronia(II) was built with the capabilities to serve as a transatlantic liner, but she is probably most well-known for her green paint and world cruises. Also, if I recall correctly, many Cunard ships--for example, both Mauretanias--cruised. I wish to point out that all of these events were well before Translantic air travel overtaking Transatlantic crossings in 1957.

 

I believe that Princess does realize the value of the Cunard name. I believe that Princess realizes the value to the Cunard name, whether Peter Ratcliffe likes or dislikes QE2. If they have realized the potential of Cunard, the chances are good that more will be invested in Cunard in the future.

 

Please realize that this is not due to my appreciation of all things modern--I enjoy the older charm possessed by the former Queens as well. I just embrace the current Princess/Cunard and QM2 because they will be all we will have in a few years. I'd rather have those than no Cunard/QM2 at all. (It is unfortunate to have to say that, isn't it?)

 

Thanks for reading. I hope this hasn't angered you--that was certainly not my intention.

[seaventurer]

I have sailed on the QE2 once, and many other ships. I am confused. To me, Cunard has the same problem as Cadillac.

 

Cunard is not a line for 1st time cruisers - most of today's passengers are 1st time cruisers. Cunard relies on repeat clients and its reputation which IMO is long gone. Cunard is going after a very shrinking market and the hype is over (re:QM2).

 

While Cunard has had a history of operating single purpose built cruise ships, those initiatives have always failed (in recent history). Ask your friends, your neighbors, and even any stranger what Cunard is today and it won't get first pick as a cruise choice. Cunard is like Cadillac - where in the marketplace does it fit???

 

Cunard has the QM2 - she was purposebuilt to sail the North Atlantic - not cruise...so let her be the best and only transatlantic "Liner" in town...For Example, would NCL decide to enter the transatlantic trade with, say, the Crown? NO. Of Course not. So why try and convert Cunard, today's Cunard into a cruise line where the competition is stiff and heated?

 

Cadillac is a hard sell to younger people - and this brand of GM continues to struggle in finding a home.

 

As I continue to cruise frequently, I see less and less definition of what a line is (was) and the significance of the name from prior years and I fear, that if and when Cunard attempts to enter (transfer) ships into a solely cruise venue, they will fail knowing that not only will today they be competing with themselves, but striving to find a market which is best served by those lines that are focused on delivering the best at what they do.

 

Cunard - do what you do best, and stay where you are...

[QueensFan]

Seaventurer - I agree with your statements completely. Cunard has lost its image. However, I must beg to differ with your Cadillac analogy, being 15 and around a lot of young people all day.

 

About 3/4 of the kids in my school lust for a Cadillac vehicle, especially the Escalade. (I am not one of them - I'd much rather drive a 12-year-old Land Rover, and not because of the fact that it has the green oval across the hood.) Also, from my grandparents' perspective, they say that many of their friends have or want to get Cadillacs.

 

I think it is one of the few brands that has appealed to both parties. Both the hip-hop crowd and the older crowd are pleased by the vehicles. Both feel they have brand cachet. I think it actually worked.

 

 

 

But Cunard is not. They lost themselves. Not only is QM2 losing customers, they are losing longtime fans because of their changes. I would hate to see the Cunard fleet gone. What, the "Carnival Mary"? "Princess Mary"? "Costa Maria"? "Marydam?" I don't think so.

 

I think that Carnival has to realise that yes, you have to attract new customers to your line. But you are also working with one of the oldest ship lines in the world. This is the same Cunard that began in 1839, and has been operating continuously since then. The Cunard of the Mauretania, the Aquitania, the Queens (all four of them).

 

They're losing their loyal customers, the ones who have sailed dozens of voyages on the QE2 as well as the Cunarders of the recent past. They have lost what makes them Cunard, and now they're paying for it.

[KenC]

Come on guys - where are you coming from? Don't know what you think Cunard is, but it's not just about transatlantic Queens sailing full to the rafters with repeat passengers eating cream teas for the last zillion years.

 

Cunard introduced its first ships to cruising back in the 1920's and 30's, the green goddess Caronia had a huge following in the 1950's and 60's, and more recently Vistafjord/Caronia and Sagafjord held their own for nearly 20 years. A line like Cunard is more than just the ships it owns - as the Carnival revival has discovered, there is a lot of mileage in heritage and tradition and 'R.M.S.' QM2 is swimming in the stuff, because no one can do it or claim it as Cunard do. Who says QM2 is losing custom anyway? The changes that passengers seem to be decrying appear to be more related to the hotel side of business and if that isn't made to work properly then Cunard's reputation will be shot completely anyway.

 

It tickles me when people hold up QE2 as the last remnant of Cunard's tradition - if they had been around in the 60's they would be aware of Cunard's enormous effort at that time to step away from the past and tradition when building her. The funnel's lack of Cunard livery, the 'ultra modern' interiors and even the name with its arabic numeral were all part of an effort to step into a brave new world and disassociate her from the Cunard past and her heritage. I guess they believed that the age of the passenger ship, as they knew it, was probably over and who could blame them for thinking so?

 

Having sailed on QE2 and Vistafjord/Caronia in the late 1980's and then lately over the past couple of years I have to admit that the Cunard 'cruise experience' has improved considerably, even if the ships are now coming to the end of their extremely long careers and showing it. The traditional Cunard cruise ship (not the mass market Countess, Princess etc. experiments of the 70's and 80's) was luxurious, with superb Cunard service and sailed to exotic destinations - lets hark back to that past and hope that some choice new tonnage again delivers the Cunard experience to the more discerning cruise passenger in the future.

[Richard Schmidt]

With all due respect, Richard, I beg to differ.

 

Caronia(II) was built with the capabilities to serve as a transatlantic liner, but she is probably most well-known for her green paint and world cruises. Also, if I recall correctly, many Cunard ships--for example, both Mauretanias--cruised. I wish to point out that all of these events were well before Translantic air travel overtaking Transatlantic crossings in 1957.

 

I believe that Princess does realize the value of the Cunard name. I believe that Princess realizes the value to the Cunard name, whether Peter Ratcliffe likes or dislikes QE2. If they have realized the potential of Cunard, the chances are good that more will be invested in Cunard in the future.

 

Please realize that this is not due to my appreciation of all things modern--I enjoy the older charm possessed by the former Queens as well. I just embrace the current Princess/Cunard and QM2 because they will be all we will have in a few years. I'd rather have those than no Cunard/QM2 at all. (It is unfortunate to have to say that, isn't it?)

 

Thanks for reading. I hope this hasn't angered you--that was certainly not my intention.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful response, John. I do not dismiss it out of hand, and I reluctantly agree with you that soon "the current Princess/Cunard and QM2 ...will be all we will have in a few years." I swear to God, I study the pictures of QM 2 and try to love her, but it is difficult. I am not certain Princess has any appreciation of the things "British" that make Cunard trans-Atlantic liners worth the money. I am a traditionalist, John. Much that is good is dying in this new and more vulgar age. I'd like to know that there remains a place where, for six days, a more civilized era can still hold sway. I hope all your journeys are extraordinary and fullfilling.

 

Richard

[KenC]

Richard

 

you seem to have hit a nail on the head. Things that are good are dying and the world is becoming a more vulgar place! Unfortunately this maliase increasingly affects all societies (on both sides of the Atlantic) and for all or even some cruise lines to escape it is a pretty tall order.

 

you mention pictures, but have you seen QM2 in the 'flesh' yet? There is something unfathomable about her close up that cannot but impress the viewer. You get an inkling of the thrill people must have had when they first saw the original Queens or Normandie. On board, the grand scale of everything is also beyond anything conveyed by photos.

 

best wishes

 

Ken

[Transatlantic Tom]

Ken:

 

I myself have seen QM2 in person - from the decks of QE2 April 25th, 2004 as we tied up at NYPST after crossing from Southampton. No doubt about it, she is awe inspiring. It's like seeing a Nimitz class carrier !!!

 

I tend to agree with Richard. As far as looks are concerned, I wish that the powers that be had kept the superstructure of QM2 two or three decks lower. To me, she looks top heavy. I wonder if Mr Payne had been given carte blanche if the ship would have had lesser numbers of balconies.

 

My real fear is that, over the long run, because of her capacity that she will be unable to attract enough passengers to maintain the transatlantic run.

 

I wonder why Mickey felt that they needed to go quite so big ??? Ego ???

 

Tom

[KenC]

Tom

 

as I have heard it, the size is all to do with economy of scale. Length was determined by the turning basin at Southampton and height by the Verranzo Narrows Bridge. Stephen Payne also claimed to have provided one more deck of balconies than Mickey Arison required !!!! Something we overlook is that capacity is only about 800 pax more on QM2 than QE2.

 

It seems to me that transatlantic fares are not being discounted any more than other Cunard cruises - certainly not in the UK. Last February when we booked C grade cabins for our Sept 8 westbound there were no more than a dozen left - OK so there aren't many C grade cabins, but they were nearly all sold out 6 months in advance! You may have noticed that there are still 30 transatlantics planned for 2006, only 6 down on this year - surely a good sign?

 

Do you think if they had built a small modest QE2 style liner that she would have had the cachet to fill over 30 transatlantics year after year? I'm sure if they had then we would all be complaining now that they hadn't built a grand enough Queen - look at the uproar about about Queen Victoria!!!

 

Regards

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

Something we overlook is that capacity is only about 800 pax more on QM2 than QE2. It seems to me that transatlantic fares are not being discounted any more than other Cunard cruises

 

Ken,

 

Excellent points - ship twice the size of the QE2 but only 50% more passsengers - result, great sense of spaciousness. Prices similar to QE2 trans-Atlantics - result - great crossing, but with a balcony, rather than a porthole. Ain't progress dreadful! And they should stop hring younger policemen!

 

Peter

[Transatlantic Tom]

Tom

 

 

Do you think if they had built a small modest QE2 style liner that she would have had the cachet to fill over 30 transatlantics year after year? I'm sure if they had then we would all be complaining now that they hadn't built a grand enough Queen - look at the uproar about about Queen Victoria!!!

 

Regards

 

Ken

 

Ken:

 

I hope is that your overall view comes true.

 

Beyond all of the bickering that is going on throughout this board (Cunard captains vs. Princess captains, QE2 vs. QM2, NYPST vs. Brooklyn, tradition vs. an updated approach, tuxedos vs. jeans, etc), my greatest hope is that a transatlantic service by Cunard continues for many, many years to come.

 

I personally would not have wanted the responsibility for making the decisions associated with the design of QM2. There was alot on the line.

 

I hope QM2 proves to be the right ship !!

 

Tom

[dougnewmanatsea]

I'll second Ken's opinion about seeing QM2 in the flesh. She's not what I would call graceful, but she is impressive. Her bow is magnificent and it's hard not to be bowled over by her size.

 

That said, I find her superstructure too tall, her foredeck too short, her funnel too small, the aft-facing balconies to look like a condo block, and the stern to be somehow "uncomfortable".

 

But she's still an awful lot better-looking than most other modern ships, and an incredibly impressive vessel in her own right. Just not graceful.

 

As for why she was built so big - money. Generally speaking, big ships make more money than smaller ones, because many fixed costs remain the same regardless of the size of the ship - spreading them among more passengers makes operating costs lower and profit higher. Thus, cruise lines will build as big a ship as is technically feasible (unless it's so big that they don't think they can fill it).

 

Personally, I'll reserve overall judgement on her design until I sail in her.

[Zipper25]

Thanks, Guernseyguy for your tongue-in-cheek way of delivering a voice of reason. It's refreshing to see that you don't take too seriously the longing for the days of yore. I feel sometimes that the Tardis should descend and take us all back to an appartment next to Bertie Wooster and his man Jeeves :)

[guernseyguy]

Thanks, Guernseyguy for your tongue-in-cheek way of delivering a voice of reason. It's refreshing to see that you don't take too seriously the longing for the days of yore. I feel sometimes that the Tardis should descend and take us all back to an appartment next to Bertie Wooster and his man Jeeves :)

 

Zipper25 - Thankyou - it comes from living offshore of 'New Labour Britain' - where 'the future is certain'.....its just the past that keeps changing....:)

 

Peter

[Druke I]

It appears that the rumor re Pacific Princess and Tahitian Princess being transferred to Cunard is not good - at least for now.

Princess announced the schedules for these two ships, 2006 & 2007.

[guernseyguy]

[quote name='Druke I']It appears that the rumor re Pacific Princess and Tahitian Princess being transferred to Cunard is not good - at least for now.

Princess announced the schedules for these two ships, 2006 & 2007.[/QUOTE]

Michael,

Perhaps the web site is not up to date, but the furthest out I can find itineraries is for Pacific Princess September 29 2005 arriving in Sydney, and Tahiatan Princess April 30 2006 arriving Papeete...with nothing in the 'News' section either....but perhaps your sources are more au fait.

Peter

[guernseyguy]

[quote name='PRINSENDAM']I have also sailed in PACIFIC PRINCESS and IMO these two little Princess ships would make ideal Cunarders. Of course they would not be able to have single sitting, but other than that they would be just perfect. With the right Hotel Managers, the right directives and a good budget from Head Office they would become star attractions.

Lets wait and see!]

Stephen[/QUOTE]

Stephen,

They could fairly easily adapt to QM2 style Cunard - single seating Queens/Princess Grills (move over Sabatini's/Sterling Steak Houses, and the Queens Grill Lounge where the Library is - need to find space for a Library) with two seating Britannia where the Club Restaurant is.....there were very many loyal Caronia passengers who I'm sure Cunard failed to transfer to QE2/QM2 - I'm sure these ships would delight them too - and I agree with Doug & Ernie, they feel very out of place in 90,000 tonnes + Princess. And a better fit than the Sun Princess (oldest of the Sun class) that may be being looked at as a Cunarder (totally scurrilous rumour based on almost no fact that I started today based on McNaught's secondment ;) )

Peter

[dougnewmanatsea]

[quote name='guernseyguy']And a better fit than the Sun Princess (oldest of the Sun class) that may be being looked at as a Cunarder (totally scurrilous rumour based on almost no fact that I started today based on McNaught's secondment ;) )[/QUOTE]
Naughty, Peter, starting scurrilous rumors ;) !

But seriously, transferring SUN PRINCESS to Cunard would be a disaster - SUN-class ships at P&O has caused enough trouble that I don't think they'd try it with Cunard.

If they want some existing mid-sized tonnage for Cunard, better that they pilfer ORIANA and/or AURORA than something from Princess IMHO.