Supreme Court Ruling

[Joe and Ivan]

Check USA Today for latest Supreme Court ruling:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-06-06-scotus-disabled_x.htm

 

Court: Cruise ships must obey U.S. laws for disabled

By Joan Biskupic, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 Monday that foreign cruise ships sailing in U.S. waters can be sued under a landmark anti-bias law if they discriminate against disabled passengers.

 

Ivan

[Queenie2]

<reposted from another thread, where we were discussing this yesterday>

 

Actually the details are up to the circuit court (where it was remanded for disposition).

 

It will be interesting to see how the lower court deals with barrier-removal and if it "interferes with the internal affairs of cruise ships". I don't expect great things as that court ruled that the ADA didn't apply to foreign cruise ships in the first place, so I expect they will take a very wide berth in requiring specific structural access modifications. I doubt they will go so far as requiring certain bed configurations as Justice Kennedy implied that "requiring certain cabins to be accessible" was indeed "interfering with the internal affairs of cruise ships." (and not required under Title III)

 

I've read the decision several times and even in the 3 dissenting opinions there doesn't appear to be much agreement. Tough issue.

 

Of course, I blogged about it today

http://emerginghorizons.com/blog/20...in-kind-of.html

 

for those of you interested, you can download a PDF of the ruling here

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...pdf/03-1388.pdf

 

edited to add that today Michael Crye, president of the International Council of Cruise Lines, said his group would offer more personal assistance to the disabled, rather than making permanent, structural changes to its ships.

 

Interesting.

 

 

Candy

[LauraS]

Here's Cruise Critic's report on this:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1317

[Liat]

I was not aware that cruise lines charged extra for handicapped accessible cabins. Did they all do this? It certainly seems that this was unfair and really cheapskate tactics.

[judyzoo]

We.ve never paid extra for an accessible cabin, but then we've never booked an accessible cabin in NCL, which is the line involved in the Supreme Court case. On the other hand, we have had to book a higher category than we wanted, to get an accessible cabin, because either the cabins in the category that we wanted weren't accessible or the very limited number of accessible cabins in that category were booked long before sailing.

[Queenie2]

I should say that it is only (at this point) an allegation (that the plaintiffs were charged extra for an accessible cabin). This still hasn't been decided by the lower court.

 

I don't know what that really means as I've never known NCL charging a different (Higher) price for an accessible cabin. It isn't stated in the brief, but I've not read the depositions so it is probably there. I really wonder what it was because this cabin was the lower category inside cabin (which kind of throws out that "had to book a more expensive cabin to get the access theory"). They said they were charged a "surcharge" and I don’t' specifically know what that means either. A surcharge implies not just a higher price but an additional charge (like that silly $3 energy surcharge CA hotels tacked on to the bill).

 

I know that cruise prices are like the stock market -- they go up and down according to their availability. So it is always possible that the plaintiffs ended up paying more for their accessible cabin just because of when they booked it. I truly do not know but would love to hear the details on this.

 

Believe me, I've received a lot of complaints over the years but never has anybody even claimed that the cruise lines charge more for accessible cabins. Hey, that's the reason ABs want to book them -- more space for same price!

 

Candy

[DesrtDrmr]

We haven't been charged more for an H/C cabin, but we had to PAY more for one. On our last cruise to Hawaii, the only balcony cabins that were H/C were BA on Princess. When we booked that cruise, eight months out, the mini suites, for the three categories above the BA cabin were priced LOWER than the BA cabin. There are NO H/C mini suites or suites on the Island Princess, or any other Princess ships we've been on. Many of the people on the CC Boards, that were booked in B- cabins or in Mini Suites were upgraded to a higher level of that category, or upgraded from the B level Balcony Cabin to the mini suites. While we were not charged a premium for a H/C cabin, we certainly PAID a premium for it...................and the only adjustment I could get during the eight months was a fifty dollar pp reduction. We booked directly through Princess, and ended up paying from $500 to $1000 more than some in the same category or higher, JUST because we were in a H/C cabin. Some of that may have been due to travel agent credit or pull, but not all. I booked through Princess because last time, my TA told me to call Princess about any H/C issue or question I had because "he didn't handle that stuff", and of course, Princess would not talk to me, and told me to call my TA.

I'm not really complaining, except that I think it was a bit unfair. We did have a great time, and enjoyed every minute..............would never sue over such a thing, but those higher prices DO exist, just in different ways.

[ElCruiso]

Never been charged extra for a Handicapped Cabin in 17 Cruises, but Handicapped Cabins are not available in every Class on every Ship, and there are no Handicapped Guarantee Categories with possible upgrades. So all is not quite the same. Some Cabins are Handicapped Accessable and Some are Wheelchair accessable there is a difference, Wheelchair Accessable may have wider doors only. You must book Handicapped Cabins way in advance as some Ships have as few as 4 Cabins, with some of the newer ships having as many as 28. :eek:

[Queenie2]

Although it is listed as a "surcharge" in several instances, according to Tom Goldstein (the lawyer that argued for Spector) the plaintiffs actually are alleging that "discounts on accessible cabins were not avaialble, while they were available on non-accessible cabins".

 

Again, I don't have the specifics, but I could guess that because the accessible cabins sell out first they are usually not discounted. Again that is a guess.

 

Candy