weights and 3mm suits

[Chevdiver]

What is the rule of thumb for the amount of weight to use for a 3mm suit. For a 7mm I was taught to take your body weight drop that last digit and add 10. then adjust from there. I would like to get an idea about the 3mm ratio so I don't waste a lot of time figuring it out down there. Thanks.

[NM_Eman]

Lots of factors go into figuring your weight including body fat, salinity of the water, how compressed you suit is, even how relaxed you are. Most people over weigh. I've never found a rule of thumb that works. So do a quick boyancy check and have fun.

 

Kent

[Lou33]

Your rule of thumb for a 7mm suite is really high. For me that would be 24 pounds, but I use 18 or 19. I've heard that rule of thumb before, and I think it is suggested for beginner divers so that they don't have trouble getting to the bottom.

 

With a 3mm suite you will need about 1/2 of your usual weight, especially if it is a short suit. I would use about 9 or 10 pounds. I like my weight belt on the light side, mostly so I have less weight to carry around on the deck.

[CruiseKing]

Weight can be tricky. There are more factors to consider other than 3mm or 7mm wetsuit. For instance, depending on where you are diving you may need to factor in buoyancy for boots, gloves and a hood. Tank type can greatly influence the amount of weight you may need. I currently use an 80lb aluminum tank which towards the end of a dive becomes more buoyant than say a 95lb steel tank. Don't mean to confuse you, but as you can see there not really rules just guidelines.

[Capt_BJ]

What is the rule of thumb for the amount of weight to use for a 3mm suit. For a 7mm I was taught to take your body weight drop that last digit and add 10. then adjust from there. I would like to get an idea about the 3mm ratio so I don't waste a lot of time figuring it out down there. Thanks.

 

Call this : If you have never dove with a wet suit....maybe this isn't the best time to start. :o

 

 

sounds to me like you are going to try a new rig on a 'real dive'

 

bad plan

 

you really should know your gear .... do an easy dive or go to a safe area and test dive your rig so you know your weight.....don't wait until you drop off a boat with a group to determine your proper bouancy

 

sorry - I've only been diving for 30 years.

 

I know what weight to have for the wet suit I'm wearing, type of tank (steel/Alm 50/80/100) and water (fresh/salt), on a trip I tell the boat 12 lbs and I know 12 lbs is right....not a guess. When I look the dive master in the eye and say 12...he knows I know.

 

Here's a log entry that helps:

date, Cozumel drift dive, max 100 ft, al80, water 82, farmer johns, own BC, 12lbs...

or

date, Epcot Living Seas, max 30, steel70, shorty, scubapro vest, 10 lbs, a little heavy

 

(this log doesn't need the dive master sig or stamp...but retains useful information. follow on fields include dive service used and tip rendered...cuz the $ I left reflect the service rec'd!)

 

Wearing a wet suit for the first time on a group dive is why dive masters hate to see people wearing wet suits despite the fact they would never enter the water themselves w/out one.

 

Know your gear.....I'm confident I can get my weight accurate. u should b 2. Watching you bounce around and struggle cuz u don't makes my dive less enjoyable. Even if I rent a suit I, I rent what I know....if u don't know...should u dive?

 

'course, that's why I don't play golf. Cuz when I did I was a hazard and delay to the other people on the course and after a few years try'n and not gettin any better..... welll, I went on more dive trips!

 

I want to dive with you.....I just don't want you to get in my way or worse yet....hurt me. :p

 

"But I don't have the time to aquire 500 dives, nor was I certified by PADI instructor #3" ... true .... back to the original point.... don't go on a 'real dive' with a rig you don't know. The first time you wear a wet suit should not b while 11 other divers are waiting for you so the group can proceed.

 

If you have never dove with a wet suit....maybe this isn't the best time to start.

[Chevdiver]

Thanks Capt.

 

I have 50 dives in a 7mm full suit. For that, I use 30 lbs. On our cruise, I will be using my own ScubaPro Classic BC, regs, etc. I will, however, be using a new 3mm suit. I am estimating that I will need between 12 and 16 lbs. If I am heavy, then I can easily adjust with my BC. I think I will put two 5 lbs weights on the belt, then either two or three 2lb weights in my jacket pockets.

 

i do have access to a deep water pool, so I think I will do a trial run there before the cruise. Thanks for all the tips.

[Capt_BJ]

Trial run in a controlled environment :D

 

That's a plan I can agree with :D

 

30 lbs :eek:

 

and people asked me while Captaining a ship in the Pacific, why I didn't dive like I always had in the Caribbean.....

 

30 lbs to counter your wet suit....oh my. Only hit water that cold once when someone talked me into a Virginia quary dive. 10 minutes in, I asked "Y" :eek:

 

If the water ain't over 80....why dive? :p

[cruzegirl]

Ok, lot's of good information here.... But I have a comment/question.. We were all newbie's once upon a time....I still am.... I have new equipment and did a trial with my instructor before my first dive with it....But all I'll be able to dive in California until I go to Hawaii in October....my point is this....While CaptBJ had/has great info and I'm learning from what you wrote, but truthfully, you scared the hell out of me...... I'm still new at this and still learning and now concerned about messing with someone elses dive.... The only way to not be new is to dive but I'm still new as I dive... Any other tips? It's a work in progress....I'm still taking classes and taking my adv. course...... But I'm apprehensive about when I dive in Hawaii.... What can you suggest?

[sea-jay]

cruzegirl

I'm still taking classes and taking my adv. course

 

If you are really a newbe, should you be taking adv. course? My local instructors wouldn't allow me to take advanced open water certification courses until I had at least 20 dives. This indicated to them that I had at least a basic understanding of what diving was all about and was ready to go on to the next step. I would not like to dive with someone that is certified advanced open water and only had done checkout dives with an instructor near by to keep them safe. Once you are really on your own, (albeit with a buddy) you can get both of you in trouble because he (buddy) is expecting you to be a "real" advanced open water diver.

 

As for being new. Just let some one else on the dive boat know you are new and need someone to buddy up that doesn't mind sheparding you around. There will always be someone that is more than willing to help out a newbe to have them feel comfortable.

 

Happy bubbles.

[Capt_BJ]

Ok, lot's of good information here.... But I have a comment/question.. We were all newbie's once upon a time....I still am.... I have new equipment and did a trial with my instructor before my first dive with it....But all I'll be able to dive in California until I go to Hawaii in October....my point is this....While CaptBJ had/has great info and I'm learning from what you wrote, but truthfully, you scared the hell out of me...... I'm still new at this and still learning and now concerned about messing with someone elses dive.... The only way to not be new is to dive but I'm still new as I dive... Any other tips? It's a work in progress....I'm still taking classes and taking my adv. course...... But I'm apprehensive about when I dive in Hawaii.... What can you suggest?

 

You ask great questions! It is not my intention to scare you but face it.....you are talking a very dangerous sport here. Just recently a very experienced dive master and another diver drown at a major resort in Roatan. You can't take this lightly.

 

Equipment failure is a very very bad thing. Failure can be "I didn't know how to work it." Same outcome.

 

My suggestion - is get as many dives under your belt as possible - but don't dive beyond your limits. Is the Hawaii trip going to be the first time you 'go deep'? Or the first time doing a boat vs a shore dive? First time with new equipment, or rented equipment? Each of these factors increases risk. Two or more???? Are you going to be nervous or relaxed?

 

I did probably my first 20 dives on the same patch of reef in the Keys. Something new to see every dive, but I became very comfortable with the geography and could concentrate on other things besides not getting lost. Later did same thing with shore dives at Sunset House in CI. Then when I started nite dives the first ones where in places I knew well. I had landmarks. Knew where I was. Anxiety level was much lower. I still remember a nite dive on a place I'd never dove in day time. I've never repeated that one.

 

I sometimes wince when reading this board and see folks heading to Cozumel for their first time. Coz' is great diving. Usually a drift dive with a pretty good current. The current can shift 180 degrees during a dive. Are you experienced @ drift? Gonna be unsteady getting back on the boat in the current...comfortable ascending on your own if you are first to hit limits..while every one keeps drifting and the boat is chasing you.... Risk factors...

 

Know your limits....gain experience...know what you are getting into. A wall dive is not a good time to discover you are too heavy having misjudged the weight req'd for that rented wetsuit you never needed b4 cuz you didn't dive in the Pacific. A deep dive is a bad time to discover your new wet suit leaks; you might be thinking too much about cold and not enuf about depth and time.

 

Be concerned about the experience of those around you. They can hurt you too.

 

Remember the best purpose of a dive knife - fending off a panicing buddy :eek:

 

Just kidding....on the knife part.

 

On group dives I'm always the one at the end of the pack...bringin up the rear. And therefore far away from all the excited ones.....

 

Last comment - if it don't feel right...don't get wet. That's a good way to increase the odds of a good dive tomorrow.

[cruzegirl]

Wow.......more good points to consider.......

Sea-jay,

for my adv. class there aren't a minium number of dives required.. Have to admit that surprised me... I have done some dives between the open water class and the adv. class... But I wanted to go into the adv. class to get more experience....Plus they teach us deep dives (which I can't do without the adv. class), Night dives (which I would never do without a teacher), but expands on my knowledge for buoyancy and navigation. I think it's good for me for experience......

Capt. BJ,

You have good information... I am like a sponge right, so into education and learning.... I know it's dangerous and I have a healthy respect for it. When I got my new equipment, I made an appt. with my instructor to do a weight/equipment check before my first dive with my buddy on my own. I don't do things I don't feel comfortable with ..... and I don't have a false sense of security.. I won't do deep dives until my class, or night dives, or wall dives or drift dives until trained with them... I have done open water boat dives since certification.... very fun...But did dive with 2 very experienced friends and one is like a dive master. He should be.....lol... I am booked on the Valor Scuba Cruise and looking forward to getting as many dives in as poss. so I can dive as much as poss. But I will back out of what I'm not comfortable with...In Hawaii I will take my own BCD, regulator set and contemplating the wetsuit. I have one, a 3mm but I don't know if I'll have a place to rinse/dry it. So considering renting.... Probably won't though.. I like my own equip. I understand what you are saying about limits.... experienced that on my first boat dive without class.... We did 3 dives and I just felt so tired that I didn't do the 4th.. Would have loved to but it didn't feel right for me........ So I sat back on the boat doing my dive tables....lol.... I will listen to all that the experienced ones put out there......

[NM_Eman]

cruzegirl,

 

If you haven't already go to http://www.scubaboard.com/forums.php and take a look and ask lots of questions. Lots of friendly people and the usual few a**holes.:eek:

Kent

[Capt_BJ]

Sounds like you had a decent instructor who's instilled a sense of respect for this sport.

 

First, while I applaud your desire to get extra training via the ADV course....you might not be ready. True, instructors will tell you that the ADV card shows tour operators you are serious about diving. But let's see: Open water means you did 4 dives (is that still right?) And a store will happily, IMMEDIATELY take your $$$ for the adv course. ADV says you did a deep dive with an instuctor holding your hand, same for a nite dive, and ran a compass course my dog could pass. (ya, I took the course) I went adv after about 50 logged dives. What am I saying? Level of certification may not mean much... I've never taken a class beyond ADV. Am I a safe diver? Got several hundred under the belt and I'm still here.:rolleyes:

 

Here's a few tips in no order of priority and with no more 'justification' than an old timer's experience.

 

These really apply to a your/boat dive.....

 

1. WATCH: sit back and watch other folks get ready starting from the first minute on the boat. You will quickly determine who knows what's up and who doesn't. (Which side are you on?)

 

2. ASSEMBLE YOUR OWN GEAR: Wanna know why on many boats the crew sets up all the gear? Trolling for tips? Maybe. Don't want to wait for those who can't remember how they did it 7 years ago when they made their last dive? Probably. a) you show the dive crew you know what you are doing. b) U KNOW IT IS RIGHT. {if U kneed them to set up ur gear you should have taken the city tour}

 

3. KNOW YOUR GEAR: heard this before? Believe it or knot, you can be pretty damn comfortable with rented gear. That happens with EXPERIENCE, then you can tell when the rented stuff is crap. Whoops, there's that experience thing again. For a long time I carried everything....I'm pretty comfortable with rented stuff now. I know what to check....experience. Not bragging; what I'm saying is that now, rented gear doesn't raise my anxiety level } which is a risk factor.

 

If you are doing your own shore dive, no one knows how screwed up you might be...at least that's my experience in Bonaire and Cayman........:)

 

If you are going on the 'dive special cruise' you need to be very keen to the possibility that you will be sucked into situations beyond your experience/skill level.

 

:eek: DANGER WILL ROBINSON....DANGER (did I just highlight my age?):eek:

 

This is the same logic behind why I tell new divers knot to even THINK ABOUT a "live aboard" dive trip. A newbe trying to keep up with hard core folks is a BAD MIX.

 

enuf preaching.

 

I've been diving for a LONG time - ost of it with the same buddy (spousal unit). We're just getting ready to get our dau' into cert' classes.

 

Dive on!

[cruzegirl]

Lot's of good information Capt. BJ...... I do watch the more experienced dives on the boats and pay attention....I also watch the showoffs and ignore them.. I know my own gear well.... I will probably always take my own gear as much as I can.... Mainly because of my BC....I would be comfortable with a weight integrated BC but I can't use weight belts so that would be a problem if not weight integrated.....I will be careful of dive trips....... I'm pretty cautious... If I'm not sure or comfortable with what I'm doing or going to do, I don't do it... Nothing is worth my safety....... So, with that said, I'm going to rack my instructors brain tonight and learn as much as I can on my adv. class this weekend..... Then go apply it....... Have a great weekend.......

[cruzegirl]

Ok, I did my adv. class this weekend and while I learned alot and feel much more comfortable, I will agree with Capt. BJ/others & say, "they shouldn't let you do the adv. class without at least 20 dives under your belt"...... Partially because it's the label attached, "advanced", which in reality, I'm still not an adv. diver.. But I am learning alot and my buoyancy is tons better..... and less air useage..... big accomplishment....

Now with that said, any advice on beach diving or surface teaching? Meaning, I am fine once I'm below the ocean.... And getting in on the beach isn't as bad though trying to coordinate putting on fins is crazy but coming out, not good.........I have fear on the surface..... more with beach diving than boat diving.... but even my first boaat dive of the day, I'm a little anxious and then the other dives were fine...... But also in strength... Any recommendations for that? I feel so weak coming out of the ocean on the beach and with Scuba and trying to avoid the waves I feel like I can't walk......And I workout, ride horses....I'm pretty physical.......

[cruzegirl]

No advice huh? I was looking forward to reading advice about beach diving here... I'm doing a night dive this coming Saturday.... We'll see how I do......

[sea-jay]

I have a bad back and sometimes trying to stand up in the surf is tough. Try getting to as shallow water as possible by swimming, then simply sit up and take off your tank and BC. It isn't going to sink if you have air in your BC. Then, stand up, pick up your gear and walk out. Keep your regulator in your mouth, with your mask on until you have the ability to stand up. You don't want to drop your regulator, and have a wave knock you over before taking off your gear.

 

 

I assume you will have very experienced divers with you on the night dive. Its an entirely different world at night and without reference points, its easy to get lost. If you do get lost, follow your bubbles to the surface being careful to go slow. Make sure you have a good light with a small emergence light. Also, tie a light stick to your tank/regulator so others can see you and make sure you have your emergency whistle so the boat can find you in the dark if you have to surface. Otherwise, enjoy that night dive. My first one was out of this world.

 

Check out my photos of the Key Largo dive in April 2005 at the link in my signature. My nite photos are there also.

 

 

Happy bubbles.

[Capt_BJ]

I've done a ton of shore dives and would consider them easier than boat dives. 'course they were in conditions where the waves were about 1 to 2 inches....ya sit in the sand and put on your fins yada yada. Maybe we need to initiate a new term....surf dive. That's a west coast thing and I have little west coast experience....cuz I said, "why?" No 'dis' intended....I just like an 80+ degree water temp and seas under 6 inches

 

I've had the luxury of looking at big swells and saying....let's have a beer and dive TOMORROW.

 

Good luck m' girl. But thanks for the comment re' the adv class.....

 

break

 

nite dive.... I have one suggestion: the best thing to do on a nite dive is to sit in 1 place and see what comes to you....there's a lot more activity down there @ nite. Second, and this isn't original at all, park yourself and turn out the light.... Plus, less movement means less chace of getting lost...

 

last note wrt being tired....if on a boat dive, ask the crew if you can take your BC/tank off in the water. No, they don't like it....cuz u loose the vest. But, my wife/and primary dive buddy, has done this for 20 years cuz of a back that doesn't need the stress.

 

Again....if your poise has convinced them you know what you are doing then this will be a non-issue, just ask.

 

Experience Experience Experience

and if u don't have it

Careful Careful Careful

[Chevdiver]

I am a west coast diver with many beach exits. The first and foremost thing that will determine how you exit are the surf conditions. If they are smooth, you have options. If rough, then you have one... crawl out, hands and knees, until you clear the surf. then sit down, take off your fins and Bc, and carry them farther up the beach to make sure you have cleared that possible rogue wave. on a smooth day, you can swim in until you are in about 2 feet of water, then use your buddy as a leaning post and take off you fins. then, have your buddy do the same and walk out together. don't ever turn your back on the ocean though. Other options are to have your buddy swim up behind you and remove your fins. then you buddy lays back while you take off your buddies fins. then, walk out together.

 

I have used all three of these methods depending upon the conditions. The main thing to remember is that the ocean can sneak up on you. Try to keep an eye on it at all times. Keep a firm grip on your fins after removing them. a big wave could knock them out of your hands and sweep them away in a blink of an eye. Keep you reg or snorkel in your mouth until you have cleared the surf. once you get your fins off, exit the surf area before taking off the rest of your gear. waves can be very unpredictable. Oh yeh, never put your mask on your forehead. If you need to take it off, pull it down. I have seen several divers get knocked over and lose their masks.

 

There really isn't anything graceful about a beach exit, so you just have to pick the right exit for the conditions, always anticipate a wave, and have your buddy help you. And yes... that includes having your buddy check your face for nasal discharge caused by the salt water. better you buddy sees it than everyone else on the beach. That was something our dive master always drilled into us.

[cruzegirl]

Ah, so much good advice..... I knew you guys would have it...lol.....Your right that there's nothing graceful about most beach exits.. I literally feel like I've been beaten up when exiting...... and yes, don't turn your back...That I learned early on.... On this particular dive I got my fins off (with difficulty of being thrashed by the waves) and hung on for dear life.... However when I was exiting there was a "step" in the sand, missed it, hit by wave and down I went... lost my flashlight and couldn't get up.....got my bc off and then got up..... crazy....So we are repeating our night dive this Saturday... Hopefully it goes better than the last.. You do see alot of stuff down there though...very cool....Saw an Octopus, crabs, so many diff. fish, and a scorpionfish.... wild....

I'm good getting out of the boat....got my own little routine...... lol.... speaking of, I'm diving off Anacapa tomorrow....yeah..... Thanks guys for the info.. Lot's of experience speaking here..... And Capt. BJ, your welcome on the Adv. class comment.... It's true.... They shouldn't let you do that class without general diving experience of many dives... And I have noticed that some of the divemasters are getting certified without alot of experience too. Kind of worries me...... hmmmm

[Chevdiver]

Sorry to hear that you lost your flashlight. I have learned to attach all my gear to my bc. flashlight, camera, etc... My BC has many clip points so I picked up a couple of the coiled lanyards and secure everything. I was on a photo dive one day, took a picture, then had to help my buddy with some kelp. I reached back for my camera and it was know wehre to be found. I looked up and there it was floating on the surface. luckily the housing made it positively bouyant. from that day on, everything is secured. sometimes I feel like a christmas tree exiting the water, with stuff hanging everywhere, but I haven't lost anything since.

 

At night, you might be better off just crawling up the beach on your exit. Since you can't see the waves, it would be much safer and easier for you and your buddy to just crawl out together, then help each other with the fins and BC's. It may feel kinda funny, but you will have a much safer and graceful exit.

 

On our last dive we had the same experience with the step up in the sand. my wife went down with one fin on and one off. she got rolled and took a wave to the face. luckily she still had her mask on and reg in. As I was helping her up, I tripped over a submerged rock and we both did the tumble again. it was quite comical. I already had my fins off and luckily had a death grip on them. my wife lost hers but it washed up on the beach. needless to say, the 10 dive classes standing on the beach got the "this is not the best way to exit" speech from their dive instructors. And I am sure that comment was immediately followed by, "try not to do it that way". The surf that day was rather calm, except for the occasional 2-3 foot tumbler that came about every 15th wave. We thought we had it timed ok, but when my wife had trouble, the show was on. we are diving the same spot on Saturday so I am sure the beach crawl will be the order of the day. it is funny to think that after 50+ dives that you can still get humbled by the ocean on a routine beach exit.

[sea-jay]

Chevdiver says:

 

you might be better off just crawling up the beach... may feel kinda funny..... graceful exit

 

Sorry, Chev. Just couldn't resist quoting you out of context. Crawling will certainly feel funny and no way can you consider an adult crawling as graceful. Have you ever seen the backside on some adults.:rolleyes:

 

However, I agree that crawling may be the easiest thing to do.

[Chevdiver]

ya know, you're right. there really isn't anything graceful about a diver "out of the water". we are kinda like fish out of the water. we just flop around, bang into things, stumble, and yes, sometimes crawl, until we get that all that darn gear off. then, we can relax and feel human again as we reflect on all the cool stuff we just saw.

 

 

Out here we call it the Monestary Crawl. In Carmel, Ca there is a dive spot called Monestary Beach. the breakers and undertoe can be quite severe. it is also and awesome dive spot. after watching divers get rolled up the beach over and over, losing masks, fins, and everything else that isn't tethered, you learn to do the crawl. you crawl up, then dig in as the water tries to pull you back out, then crawl more. repeat. until you clear the surf. It really can be quite a site somedays.

[cruzegirl]

Chevdiver,

You had me cracking up with your description... As I can see it so well.... I did my night dive on Redondo last night.... The waves weren't crashing but BIG rolly waves... And trying to get in at night when you can't see, that's an experience.... lol... But once again it was cool once down there.... Tons of crabs, lobsters, sand dollars, scorpion fish, horned shark....Very cool...and I was able to exit in the vertical position this time.....lol... had a little help but still was vertical...... I will be on the beach again soon....I will conquer it....the surface that is....lol....:D

[Chevdiver]

well, we dove again this weekend and managed two very smooth "vertical" exits. we were quite pleased with ourselves as there were many watching us. we also navigated underwater, surfacing in 4 feet of water, exactly at our exit point. that was cool. we had really bad vis the first day 2-3 feet max, then about 10 on day 2. we dove the kelp forest in Monterey Bay and had two good refresher/tune up dives. We are going next weekend to a Point Lobos State Reserve, then we are off to the crystal blue waters of Cozumel and Grand Caymen. I am so jazzed that I can hardly stand being around myself.