Dance Music QV/QE- Current Situation

[Slow Foxtrot]

Foxy- what do you think? the first time I read the Tom & Carol post I thought it must be an attempt at satire. But now I'm wondering if they're serious.............

 

Well, with all due respect it is obvious that dear Tom & Carol are blissfully unaware of the modus operandi of any social ballroom worth its salt - let alone the much vaunted Queens Ballroom. Expecting the dance-band to play the right tempo for ballroom and Latin dancing has nothing to do with anyone's ability to dance because it is immensely beneficial to both total beginners and good dancers alike. In the last seven months I have spent around sixty days on Cunard's ships and the music has been sometimes very good and sometimes simply inappropriate for the announced dance.

 

Of course, the buck stops with the dance- band leader. Some are fine, others simply lack the necessary knowledge of what is required. They may be good musicians but there is a big difference between a show-band and a proper dance-band. The bottom line (as Tangoll implies) is that these are custom built ballrooms expensively designed for ballroom and Latin dancing. It therefore behoves Cunard to ensure the very simple task of checking that all their dance-band leaders are up to the job, not just for the pleasure of good dancers but for all the casual dancers that venture onto the floor just once in a while. And for those people who think that tempos are not important - well, just ask any experienced dance- band leader!

[BobBranst]

One would think that the Queens Room dance floor would be empty much of the time if the band and the selected dance tempos were as terrible as a few have indicated. Remarkably, that doesn't seem to be the case whenever I'm in the Queens Room. More often than not, it is so crowded that it is difficult to find room to dance on the floor.

 

Bob

[fantasy51]

I am currently on the QV. All the keen dancers prefer the recorded music now, because the band's tempo is wrong, and varies during the dance. We have speeds that are halfway between slow foxtrot and quickstep, so you can't really do either one properly.

 

One passenger tells me that on a previous cruise he told the music director that the band needed to use a metronome. They used one for the rest of his stay. Perhaps we should all turn up with our own metronomes and a list of tempi and hand it over. ;)

[theTom&Carol]

A very interesting thread continues.

 

If the Cunard dance music tempo varies so wildly, curious what cruise line for dancing is a better choice? Your Piper might have to be paid... better music tempo but on a much smaller, more crowded dance floor. What would you much rather have?

 

Also curious, when not at sea what exceptional live music dance venues do you most enjoy where the live dance music tempo is spot-on?

 

Maybe it comes down to dancing to a professionally produced canned-CD-music that meets all acceptable international standards of your choosing. But then, that's not the same fun as a Queens Room live Orchestra, is it?

 

Maybe canned CD music is the way Cunard should go. I recall the Olympic Ice dancers perform effortlessly to 'canned' music, and they have a wide open dance floor.

 

Also curious.... what percentage of dancers aboard any Cunard vessel really stop and question the live music tempo to the degree of scrutiny presented on this blog?

 

I suspect the Cunard Orchestra/Band members read most of this CC dance music stuff. They probably are a dedicated 'try-harder' bunch. Remember, they're on contract. In Cunard's eyes, the musician group aboard is likely the lowest bidder.

 

Who knows. The Cunard 'suits' likely read all this CC stuff from the public. Maybe Corporate will implement "correct-tempo" canned music, and describe it precisely as such in the "Daily Programme". Then, the dancing few will be content and happy, and the other (my guess) 92% of Cunard dancers will say, "What the hell happened in the Queens room!".

 

Remember, "there's no Dance Police" in most circles.

 

Comments? Please.

[BobBranst]

Maybe canned CD music is the way Cunard should go. I recall the Olympic Ice dancers perform effortlessly to 'canned' music, and they have a wide open dance floor.

 

 

Comments? Please.

The day Cunard replaces their bands with canned music will be the day that we stop taking our sea voyages with Cunard.

 

Bob

[DWhit]

In my opinion, I like it when the band and the dancers respond and learn from each other. The band sees what type of songs tend to get people dancing, and should want to increase the play of similar types and tempos of songs to keep the dance floor full. Similarly, the dancers adjust their dance to the beat of what the band is playing. We find a Rhumba or an East Coast Swing will cover a lot of songs and a lot of tempos. I don't know if people in other areas have the same thing, but here in Tulsa there is dance called the night club two step that fits a lot of slower songs. But we have not learned this dance (I don't like it). There is also a lot of West Coast Swing here, which we can do a few basic steps. Also with a merengue or a salsa, you can dance to many latin beats. And we also love to just free-style dance like we did as teenagers.

 

For the cruises we have been on (none on Cunard yet), it is a challenge to work in waltzes or foxtrots, as the floors are small and there is little room to travel. The last cruise (Celebrity Eclipse) I waltzed my DW into a stair bannister the stuck out into the lobby area where we pre-dinner dancing was held. At least with a Cunard cruise, I am thinking you will have some decent dance floors.

[theTom&Carol]

And we also love to just free-style dance like we did as teenagers.

 

Hi, DWhit....

 

Bad mistake to mention your "free-style" dancing fun here. The CC dance-police will pull you over straight-away.

 

Yes, NC2S adapts easily. Great many steps/patterns, etc. It's a center of the floor, stay in one place, outta the way of the stream, when the dance floor is crowded, fun dance.

 

NC2S, ECS, WCS, rhumba, the Cha, and adapted FT all work well on the nightclub/disco floor, too. Not into your "free-style", but with sufficient Cunard bar treats, it might work, too. However, we never drink and dance. A lime slice in tonic with a side water chaser keeps one hydrated. A Cunard soft drink package might be a choice here.

 

DWhit, enjoy your "free-style" as I know you've having fun! That's the point, huh? If the dance police arrive, as for their credentials, and demand to be interrogated by the Captain.

 

Bye

[DWhit]

Thanks for the Heads-Up, theTom&Carol. I have found that a couple of toddies does help with the free style, but not so much help with the ball room. If there are dance police, I will probably be in trouble as soon as I take frame.

Edited May 5, 2014 by DWhit

[pepperrn]

... At least with a Cunard cruise, I am thinking you will have some decent dance floors.

Hi DWhit,

Of course! :) :)

 

Queen Mary 2:

 

Queen Elizabeth:

 

Queen Victoria:

 

Do try them out ;) , All best wishes :)

[DWhit]

Awesome photos Pepperrn!

[Tangoqueen]

Pepper, Loved looking through your photos on QE, particularly excited at the cabin photos as our July cruise is going to be next door but one to yours. Our cabin is the grade lower not quite the same but even so made it seem more real. Thank you

[Slow Foxtrot]

In my opinion, I like it when the band and the dancers respond and learn from each other. The band sees what type of songs tend to get people dancing, and should want to increase the play of similar types and tempos of songs to keep the dance floor full. Similarly, the dancers adjust their dance to the beat of what the band is playing....

 

Mr DWhit, the Queens Ballroom doesn't quite work like that but you may find that the G32 nightclub will meet your requirements.

[Slow Foxtrot]

I am currently on the QV. All the keen dancers prefer the recorded music now, because the band's tempo is wrong, and varies during the dance. We have speeds that are halfway between slow foxtrot and quickstep, so you can't really do either one properly.......

 

Madam Fantasy, is it a fantasy of yours that one day you will sail aboard Cunard and find a dance-band that actually knows the basic requirements of playing for dancing? It's not impossible. I danced to such a band on QM2 last year.

[theTom&Carol]

It's not impossible. I danced to such a band on QM2 last year.

 

Hi, Slow Foxtrot.....

 

Do you recall the name of the QM2 band (orchestra?) leader you enjoyed last year? Wonder how long their typical gig lasts with Cunard before the next group of musicians begin?

 

Besides enjoying the QR, the band "Xtasea" performing in G32 was allot of fun. In fact, G32 turned out to be enjoyable beyond our expectations, except for the padded pillar in the small dance floor. Early in the trip, G32 was not crowded so we had plenty of space. No arm flailing here, though.

 

Bye

[Slow Foxtrot]

A very interesting thread continues.

 

If the Cunard dance music tempo varies so wildly, curious what cruise line for dancing is a better choice? Your Piper might have to be paid... better music tempo but on a much smaller, more crowded dance floor. What would you much rather have?

 

Also curious, when not at sea what exceptional live music dance venues do you most enjoy where the live dance music tempo is spot-on?

 

Maybe canned CD music is the way Cunard should go. I recall the Olympic Ice dancers perform effortlessly to 'canned' music, and they have a wide open dance floor.

 

Comments? Please.

 

Hello Tom & Carol, in answer to your queries: the P & O ships Oriana and Aurora have decent size dance floors and they always have strict-tempo dance music at all times. In every social ballroom in England this is a specific requirement and bands or musicians who cannot provide it would not last two minutes. When it comes to dancing, perhaps the Brits are more particular than the Americans. And after all, Cunard ships are British in their ethos.

 

There are literally hundreds of live-music social dance venues throughout the UK. Occcasionally there is dancing to 'big bands' but mostly the music is provided by organists/keyboards etc. Blackpool's Tower Ballroom with its mighty Wurlitzer is the world's Mecca of Ballroom Dancing and you will hear no tempo variations there.

 

Of course, many venues operate with just CD dance music and, as Madam Fantasy has pointed out, many experienced dancers prefer this. However, I agree that a competent dance-band enhances the ambience of any venue.

But please note the adjective 'competent'.

 

Carry on dancing - it's the most enjoyable exercise known to man - and woman!

[DWhit]

Mr DWhit, the Queens Ballroom doesn't quite work like that but you may find that the G32 nightclub will meet your requirements.

 

Excellent, I will be sure to try both if I am fortunate enough to take a trip.

[pepperrn]

Excellent, I will be sure to try both if I am fortunate enough to take a trip.

G32 dance floor...

So, what's stopping you? ;) Come, dance and see for yourself :)

Best wishes,

Edited May 6, 2014 by pepperrn

[Slow Foxtrot]

Hi, Slow Foxtrot.....

 

Do you recall the name of the QM2 band (orchestra?) leader you enjoyed last year? ...Early in the trip, G32 was not crowded so we had plenty of space. No arm flailing here, though.

 

Bye

 

Hi Tom & Carol, one of the best leaders of the Queens Room Orchestra/Band was Maurice Williams. He was an extremely knowledgeable musician who had no problems with correct tempos. However, I understand that he left the ship last Sep/Oct to teach music. His successor was Andrew Hillier and he also ensured that the tempos were correct for the relevant dances. Not sure who is in charge now as our last voyage this year was part of the World Cruise on Queen Victoria. Beautiful ship but dance-floor not quite as big as QM2.

 

Incidentally, the arm flailing that you refer to in G32 has now been made a criminal offence in all British dance venues.

 

Carry on dancing.

[BobBranst]

In every social ballroom in England this is a specific requirement and bands or musicians who cannot provide it would not last two minutes. When it comes to dancing, perhaps the Brits are more particular than the Americans. And after all, Cunard ships are British in their ethos.

To say that Brits are more particular than Americans is rather like comparing Apples and Oranges. Brits are taught (the rather rigid) Internation Style of dance while American are generally taught the American Smooth Style of dance. However, I have never had a problem dancing along side of our European friends in the Queens Room on any of our Cunard voyages. Perhaps it should be said that American dancers more adaptable. And after all, Cunard ships are owned by Americans. :)

 

Bob

[Dancer Bob]

If we're talking metronome, we need to remember to specify beats or bars (bpm/BPM- I've seen it both ways). It's my understanding all modern keyboards have some kind of a metronome function. If Cunard wants music with traditional instruments, there's an implication that I'm sure Southampton is completely clueless about.

Oxford English Dictionary defines “to dance” as “move rhythmically to music, typically following a set sequence of steps”. Sounds about right to me. Not necessarily doing the “right” figures, but clearly excluding the navigation buoys and drunken flailers. The “right” steps are just a convenient way of not re-inventing the wheel, and keeping track of what each partner can do.

I definitely agree about orchestras playing to suit the passengers. I don't know exactly how royalties work, but I've come to believe that Cunard chooses music because the copyright is expired, not because passengers like it. When the only people left in the Queens Room by 11 PM are the hosts, what do you conclude?

I do put my money where my mouth is. As much as I like QV, my Black Sea trip last year, it finally came down to “is Cunard's unreliable music worth paying a 40% premium?”. I'm now Gold Pearl (the highest level) with Costa and my two friends who tangoll met, will be next winter. How many other people are voting with their feet, and how much money is Cunard losing?

[BobBranst]

I definitely agree about orchestras playing to suit the passengers. I don't know exactly how royalties work, but I've come to believe that Cunard chooses music because the copyright is expired, not because passengers like it.

 

You may find this of interest. Music copyrights are very complicated, and no large company like Carnival or it's Cunard subsidiary are going to risk a lawsuit from ASCAP, BMI or the composer/author for not paying royalties. This applies to every music performance on the ship. Music copyright fees are just another item that fall under the category of deductible business expenses on the tax forms.

When the only people left in the Queens Room by 11 PM are the hosts, what do you conclude?

This has certainly not been my experience in the Queens Room on my previous Cunard Voyages. More often than not, the dance floor is packed through out the night. I anticipate that will be the case when we board the QM2 next Friday.

 

I do put my money where my mouth is. As much as I like QV, my Black Sea trip last year, it finally came down to “is Cunard's unreliable music worth paying a 40% premium?”. I'm now Gold Pearl (the highest level) with Costa and my two friends who tangoll met, will be next winter. How many other people are voting with their feet, and how much money is Cunard losing?

 

Glad to hear you found a line that satisfies your "needs".

 

Bob

[Slow Foxtrot]

?... I don't know exactly how royalties work, but I've come to believe that Cunard chooses music because the copyright is expired, not because passengers like it.....

 

Although music copyright can be an international minefield I think you will find that major entertainment venues, concert halls, dance-halls and similar establishments usually pay an annual fee which covers the playing of virtually every kind of music. In the UK the Performing Rights Society is one of the organisations which collects and distributes the fees to artists and suchlike.

 

It seems therefore inconceivable that Cunard only chooses music for which the copyright has expired. Indeed, with the exception of the classical concerts, you will find that most of the dance music is subject to copyright of one sort or another. So, if the band tells you that they can't play your request because of copyright restrictions you can be assured that they are having you on. Or, more likely, that they don't know it !!

[fantasy51]

This time last night I was in the Queen Victoria ballroom. We had a larger contingent of dancers than I have seen before. There were so many single women (most of them good dancers - better than three of the Hosts) that we only had 1 or 2 dances per night with each Host. People stayed until late.

 

Someone asked who complains about the music. I heard complaints from the Hosts, both the excellent British one and a knowledgeable American one, that the tempo often changed during a song and that the tempi were not really suited to the advertised dances. I heard complaints from British dancers (and remember that they made up at least 90% of those in the ballroom), both experienced and beginners. One poor beginner dancer thought that he was making mistakes and then realised it was the singer changing tempo.

 

One passenger arranged an interview with the musical director who was surprised to hear all this. She was also surprised to hear that people complain about the tempo on the internet. 'Why don't they write in?' she asked. So much for our belief that Cunard reads all of these threads. If someone in Cunard does read it, it's not filtering down to those responsible on the ships.

[Slow Foxtrot]

This time last night I was in the Queen Victoria ballroom............

 

Someone asked who complains about the music. I heard complaints from the Hosts, both the excellent British one and a knowledgeable American one, that the tempo often changed during a song and that the tempi were not really suited to the advertised dances. I heard complaints from British dancers (and remember that they made up at least 90% of those in the ballroom), both experienced and beginners. One poor beginner dancer thought that he was making mistakes and then realised it was the singer changing tempo.

 

One passenger arranged an interview with the musical director who was surprised to hear all this. She was also surprised to hear that people complain about the tempo on the internet. 'Why don't they write in?' she asked. So much for our belief that Cunard reads all of these threads. If someone in Cunard does read it, it's not filtering down to those responsible on the ships.

 

One of the problems with Cunard is that most of the staff who organise the dances know next to nothing about dancing. That would not be a problem if some of the band-leaders did not suffer from the same malaise. Sometimes dancers are lucky when the bands get it more or less right but very often, as you have just experienced on Queen Victoria, they don't.

 

This has been an on-going problem with Cunard for the last ten years as countless passengers will testify. If they have not got it right after ten years then the chances are they never will. Maybe one day some of the bands which play on P & O's Oriana and Aurora will put them in the picture.

As for the vocalists drifting in and out of tempo; it happens all the time. Some of them think they are at Carnegie Hall instead of singing for the requirements of ballroom and latin dancers.

 

It would certainly be a bonus if the dance music was as impressive as Cunard's ballrooms and surroundings.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Slow Foxtrot

[theTom&Carol]

You may find this

This has certainly not been my experience in the Queens Room on my previous Cunard Voyages. More often than not, the dance floor is packed through out the night. I anticipate that will be the case when we board the QM2 next Friday.

 

Bob

 

Hi Bob.....

 

When you board the QM2 later this week, you'll be our official undercover QR dance music tempo sleuth. Pack your metronome, sit adjacent to the orchestra up front, smart phone record the music and the metronome video action. Wear dark glasses to blend in.

Of course, you must promise not to dance a beat as this serious incognito assignment requires a Pulitzer-level of tempo investigation.

 

If by chance the QM2 internet service is reliable, you can post nightly CC 'thumbs-down' tempo dispatches from the front.

 

Have a great voyage as a our undercover Queens Room 'wall flower' investigative reporter. Pack an extra metronome battery. We're all counting on you, Bob.

 

Interview quotes from the band leader, musicians, the foot-worn dance hosts, up-front single lady dancers, and Cunard's musical director will bring life to your reporting. Now, get to work, cub-reporter Jimmy Olsen.

 

Have fun and enjoy the music.