Anyone every had this problem?

[justaknucklehead]

Cruisinmax, I am honored that you took the time to review my posts. I didn't think any of them were obnoxious. If you don't want to even do the minimum, like eat dinner with your kids, leave them home. I really believe that and I will argue that till my death.

[Driftwoodgal]

What happened to the good ole days when you could give your kid $20-$40 dollars on vacation and tell them to spend it wisely. I would have never thought to check my bill if I thought that spending restrictions had been placed on the card. After some charges on my own bill that couldn't be viewed on the TV, as we were on a ship that doesn't have that option, I would caution anyone to check your bill before you get your last statement. It looks like some of the blame IMHO is with the cruise line as well as your daughter. The question here is who is the more responsible party and the more mature? If a parent restricts something that should be honored, or at least tell the parents that isn't an option. I know that I have been at ski resorts in Colorado and Nevada and have let my teenager and younger son go off to ski on harder slopes than I cared to go on. I guess you best label me one of the parents that was neglectful. We had places that we would meet up numerous times of the day, but I didn't ski right beside them all of the time. That was 17 years ago so I don't know if that makes a difference, but I would still do it again, if I was taking them there now.

[justaknucklehead]

Were they nine? Nine is still a baby for goodness sake.

[sunshine 229]

What happened to the good ole days when you could give your kid $20-$40 dollars on vacation and tell them to spend it wisely. I would have never thought to check my bill if I thought that spending restrictions had been placed on the card. After some charges on my own bill that couldn't be viewed on the TV, as we were on a ship that doesn't have that option, I would caution anyone to check your bill before you get your last statement. It looks like some of the blame IMHO is with the cruise line as well as your daughter. The question here is who is the more responsible party and the more mature? If a parent restricts something that should be honored, or at least tell the parents that isn't an option. I know that I have been at ski resorts in Colorado and Nevada and have let my teenager and younger son go off to ski on harder slopes than I cared to go on. I guess you best label me one of the parents that was neglectful. We had places that we would meet up numerous times of the day, but I didn't ski right beside them all of the time. That was 17 years ago so I don't know if that makes a difference, but I would still do it again, if I was taking them there now.

 

I assume that those posters who are critisizing the OP for letting her child out of her sight at all while on the ship, are just exceptional parents. I'm sure they never would let their child out of their sight. They no doubt stand beside their child's desk at school, stay in the room all through the boy scout meetings and attend all of sunday school with their child too. After all, I'm sure we have all heard cases of children who have been molested by teachers, boy scout leaders, and priests so I'm sure these parents would not be comfortable carelessly leaving the child in these dangerous situations unsupervised.

 

I assume these parents also never sleep, they must stand by the child's bed all night since I think we have all also heard of a couple of cases where a child has been removed right from their own bed, in their own room, in their own house, so only a negligent parent would sleep when their child might be in danger of being abducted.

 

I'm sure you all feel 9 is too young to ever be out of a parents sight but I'm wondering what age you think my child will have to be before I will be able to leave her alone so I can go to the bathroom or something. I have heard of teenages 14, 15 even 18 who have been molested, abducted or even murdered obviously it would be negligent to let a child of those ages out of my sight too.

 

I'm thinking that maybe, by the time my child is 24 or 25 it might be okay to leave them alone for brief periods of time, but I'm not sure after all, I mean I've heard of people that age being attacked and murdered too and I have to ask myself, what were their parents thinking, letting those 24 year olds out of their sight:rolleyes:

[laughoutloud]

I assume that those posters who are critisizing the OP for letting her child out of her sight at all while on the ship, are just exceptional parents. I'm sure they never would let their child out of their sight. They no doubt stand beside their child's desk at school, stay in the room all through the boy scout meetings and attend all of sunday school with their child too. After all, I'm sure we have all heard cases of children who have been molested by teachers, boy scout leaders, and priests so I'm sure these parents would not be comfortable carelessly leaving the child in these dangerous situations unsupervised.

 

I assume these parents also never sleep, they must stand by the child's bed all night since I think we have all also heard of a couple of cases where a child has been removed right from their own bed, in their own room, in their own house, so only a negligent parent would sleep when their child might be in danger of being abducted.

 

 

I'm thinking that maybe, by the time my child is 24 or 25 it might be okay to leave them alone for brief periods of time, but I'm not sure after all, I mean I've heard of people that age being attacked and murdered too and I have to ask myself, what were their parents thinking, letting those 24 year olds out of their sight:rolleyes:

 

 

I don't think you're being funny. I have an 8yo & 4yo. Every day I walk a tightrope between allowing them to become independent little people & trying to protect them from an increasingly dangerous & disgusting world.

 

Of course things can happen when they're under the supervision of teachers, coaches, etc. Or when they have to use the men's (!) room alone.

 

But I'll try my damnedest to keep them safe as long as I possibly can.

 

"Not on My watch..."

[beachguy]

...I don't think the OP said that her child was roaming around the ship alone. She was probably with other kids her age or a little older for short periods of time....

 

(Beachchick here)

 

But neither we nor her parents know she was with other kids her age (except where the OP mentioned candy charges in the store with a friend). Nor do we know these were "short periods of time," particularly considering that the OP said they were leaving notes in the cabin and not actually seeing each other.

 

This leads me to conclude that her parents didn't always know where she was nor whom she was with and that there may have been significant periods of time where the child was on her own. You are making assumptions that the child was with others and that it was for a short time; I don't assume one way or the other. In any case, she was not under her parents' supervision. Does it really make it okay if it's several young children out on their own with no parents in sight, rather than just one child? I don't think so.

 

And please don't assume that any of us who are concerned about this issue are child haters. Most of us are parents and most of us have no problem cruising with children (ours or others). DH and I raised our DD by giving her small freedoms and increasing them as she showed the maturity and responsibility to handle them. We didn't hover, but we were involved. We didn't keep her by our side 24 hours a day, but we didn't let her go off on her own in a strange environment when she was 9 because we felt, and still feel, that it was not smart nor safe.

 

Two other things: I agree that the minimum age to sign out by themselves from AO should be raised to 12, regardless of what the parent wants--for both safety and as CYA for RCI.

 

Second, to sunshine 229, you've proven yourself an articulate and reasoned person. Is it necessary to use the exagerated (sp?) and absurd "arguments" like "...by the time my child is 24 or 25 years old it might be okay to leave them alone for brief periods of time...."? IMO, this doesn't add to the discussion. No one has said that parents should be with their children 24 hours a day from birth to death. Many have expressed concern, sometimes extreme concern, over a 9 year old being allowed to be out on her own in a strange environment. Please, no more sarcasm (from anyone); it doesn't benefit the debate.

 

And again, I'm glad the OP brought up the Seapass issue. It's a problem that has been addressed before and obviously hasn't changed. (Thanks sueinphilly for posting the link and the text you sent to RCI. I hope they are inundated with this suggestion.)

 

beachchick

[Cruisemom39]

I assume that those posters who are critisizing the OP for letting her child out of her sight at all while on the ship, are just exceptional parents. I'm sure they never would let their child out of their sight. They no doubt stand beside their child's desk at school, stay in the room all through the boy scout meetings and attend all of sunday school with their child too. After all, I'm sure we have all heard cases of children who have been molested by teachers, boy scout leaders, and priests so I'm sure these parents would not be comfortable carelessly leaving the child in these dangerous situations unsupervised.

 

I assume these parents also never sleep, they must stand by the child's bed all night since I think we have all also heard of a couple of cases where a child has been removed right from their own bed, in their own room, in their own house, so only a negligent parent would sleep when their child might be in danger of being abducted.

 

I'm sure you all feel 9 is too young to ever be out of a parents sight but I'm wondering what age you think my child will have to be before I will be able to leave her alone so I can go to the bathroom or something. I have heard of teenages 14, 15 even 18 who have been molested, abducted or even murdered obviously it would be negligent to let a child of those ages out of my sight too.

 

I'm thinking that maybe, by the time my child is 24 or 25 it might be okay to leave them alone for brief periods of time, but I'm not sure after all, I mean I've heard of people that age being attacked and murdered too and I have to ask myself, what were their parents thinking, letting those 24 year olds out of their sight:rolleyes:

As noted in several of my posts, I have 4 kids ages 7, 7, 8 and 9 years old. I drive them to school in the morning, I pick them up in the afternoon. During many days of the week I will volunteer in their class, have lunch with them occassionally, and always volunteer on field trips (usually there are few other parent volunteers). After school they play with children whose parents I have met and feel comfortable with, at my home or theirs. We ride bikes and do many things together. They do not run freely around the neighborhood, certainly not at this age. When they have an athletic event/practice, I drive them there and remain until the event has finished (I actually enjoy watching them participate). And if only one is participating, the other three come along with me and we all watch together. When our kids were much younger and we wanted to have a night out, we would have two babysitters at a time (to watch four kids in diapers!). We give them liberties as they mature (i.e. sleepovers). They are not allowed to ride bikes off my cul-de-sac (four houses in each direction from my garage) unless I walk/ride with them. Some might say that's extreme for a 9 yo. I don't trust her ability to defend herself in the myriad of situations that could present should she be blocks from my house and not in eyesight of a responsible adult. If she were with another 9 yo, for instance, what is that kid going to do except give a description of the freak that abducted her? Physically intervene on my daughter's behalf? We live in a scary world. So I guess I must be the parent you are describing here, to some degree.

[sunshine 229]

As noted in several of my posts, I have 4 kids ages 7, 7, 8 and 9 years old. I drive them to school in the morning, I pick them up in the afternoon. During many days of the week I will volunteer in their class, have lunch with them occassionally, and always volunteer on field trips (usually there are few other parent volunteers). After school they play with children whose parents I have met and feel comfortable with, at my home or theirs. We ride bikes and do many things together. They do not run freely around the neighborhood, certainly not at this age. When they have an athletic event/practice, I drive them there and remain until the event has finished (I actually enjoy watching them participate). And if only one is participating, the other three come along with me and we all watch together. When our kids were much younger and we wanted to have a night out, we would have two babysitters at a time (to watch four kids in diapers!). We give them liberties as they mature (i.e. sleepovers). They are not allowed to ride bikes off my cul-de-sac (four houses in each direction from my garage) unless I walk/ride with them. Some might say that's extreme for a 9 yo. I don't trust her ability to defend herself in the myriad of situations that could present should she be blocks from my house and not in eyesight of a responsible adult. If she were with another 9 yo, for instance, what is that kid going to do except give a description of the freak that abducted her? Physically intervene on my daughter's behalf? We live in a scary world. So I guess I must be the parent you are describing here, to some degree.

 

You do what you feel you should to safeguard your children. It maybe that your schedule for giving them freedom to be on their own is a bit different than mine was with my children but if you came on this board to warn other posters about a cruise related issue, I wouldn't dream of accusing you of being an overprotective mother or telling you of all the dangers of not letting your child learn to be independant, just because your time table for independance differed from mine.

 

I don't see why others should have been critisizing this OP for her parenting decisions. Even if they were very concerned about her child's safety a comment about the diverse population on the ship and how easy it is to feel overly secure in such an environment should do the trick. Comments of the sort:

July 13th, 2005, 07:55 PM

justaknucklehead vbmenu_register("postmenu_4206789", true);

Cool Cruiser

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 209

 

 

These are a perfect example of people who don't watch their kids. They didn't realize what she was doing in AO and didn't really care, probably. I think they got what they deserved.

 

And several others in that vein, to my mind were completely uncalled for.

 

 

As another poster said, parents walk a tightrope. Every day they try to balance between protecting their children from unneccessary risk and harm while at the same time allowing them to live life and avoid turning them into timid and fearful people who will have trouble functioning in the world independantly. It is a tough and scary job and no-one needs to be flamed for doing it in a slightly different way than another poster might.

 

Second, to sunshine 229, you've proven yourself an articulate and reasoned person. Is it necessary to use the exagerated (sp?) and absurd "arguments" like "...by the time my child is 24 or 25 years old it might be okay to leave them alone for brief periods of time...."? IMO, this doesn't add to the discussion.

 

I'm sorry if you are offended by sarcasim or hyperbole. I find that they are often good tools to help people see the flaws in their position on an issue. Sometimes when we are fixated on one small incident it is hard to see wider effects of what we are saying. Extending those posters approach to a wider area and yes, sometmes even extending it to a ridiculously example can help people understand the weaknesses in their position.

 

I realize that using sarcasim sometimes comes off as condescending but that is I think because it is usually used when someone is frustrated with the other party's inability to grasp a point when it is explained in a more straightforward manner. I don't think that the use of sarcasim is forbidden on the board since the administrators have kindly provided us with the corresponding emoticon.:rolleyes:

[justaknucklehead]

Just because someone else's opinion is different from yours, doesn't mean their opinion is "flawed" as you like to call it. Better to be safe and flawed than have something happen to your kids because the parents want to have fun.

[ilionite65]

sunshine, I believe that those of us who have expressed our concern for the child's safety have also stated that we understand that the card usage policy is a problem. In most posts, if a reader sees content that concerns them they take the opportunity to address those concerns. Some of us have done just that in regard to reminding people that a cruise ship isn't an entirely safe environment. I could use the same sarcastic approach that you used, ie- maybe as soon as my child is out of diapers she is old enough to go to the mall on her own. Now, did that make you see the flaws in your stance? I'm not saying that these parents are bad parents, I just feel that they made some questionable choices and am glad that we are not reading a much worse post about this child!

[sunshine 229]

I could use the same sarcastic approach that you used, ie- maybe as soon as my child is out of diapers she is old enough to go to the mall on her own. Now, did that make you see the flaws in your stance?

 

No, because it was never my stance that I should be telling another poster that all children of nine should be allowed to roam freely all over the ship at any time of the day or night, and that if they did not allow the child that freedom she might turn out terribly warped by over-protective paranoid parents. If I had been claiming that, perhaps your sarcasim would have had some point.

 

I feel it is up to the parents to decide when it is right for her to give her child a certain amount of freeedom. That is a decision that is made by the parents based on their knowledge of their child and their parenting style. To imply that the parents don't care about their child :

 

These are a perfect example of people who don't watch their kids. They didn't realize what she was doing in AO and didn't really care, probably. I think they got what they deserved.

 

 

 

because they made a different decision than I might make is out of line. To suggest that it is a parent's job to keep their child beside them every minute of the time on a cruise ship because there is a possibility that something bad might happen to them fails to realize that 'something bad' MAY happen to anyone in any number of places. None of us can protect our kids from every risk and to flame this poster because they assesed the risks of this situation differently is again IMO out of line, especially as this was not a post from someone asking for parenting advice or opinions but only someone trying to warn others so they could avoid having problems with their childrens' cards.

[terri23]

Sunshine, some people obviously don't agree with you and some don't appreciate the tone of your posts. This endless barrage of yours isn't going to change a thing! And NOBODY suggested that parent and child need to be together 24/7. You're making sweeping, going-to-the-extreme statements to suit your own purposes, whatever they are:rolleyes: . How 'bout spreading a little of that "sunshine" instead???????

[sunshine 229]

Sunshine, some people obviously don't agree with you and some don't appreciate the tone of your posts. This endless barrage of yours isn't going to change a thing! And NOBODY suggested that parent and child need to be together 24/7. You're making sweeping, going-to-the-extreme statements to suit your own purposes, whatever they are:rolleyes: . How 'bout spreading a little of that "sunshine" instead???????

 

Your right that some obviously don't agree with me (or don't get my point). It doesn't bother me if they don't appreciate the tone of my posts, heck, I didn't appreciate the tone of many of justaknuckleheads posts but that didn't change them!:)

 

The endless barrage? Well, they respond to me,I respond to them, yadda,yadda... I don't think I'm the only one guilty of going on endlessly however; I see that anyone who hasn't seen my point yet isn't likely to and it is nice weather outside here today so I'm off. Have a great day everyone.

 

No promise that you won't see me on another thread sometimes though and no promise that I won't be sarcastic if I think it is called for.

 

Thanks for the warning RoanokeVACruzin. I hope you get those charges cleared up to your satisfaction and enjoy many more cruises with your family in the future.

[ilionite65]

First off, in sunshine's post #161 she lists a second quote without saying who she was quoting, possibly leading the reader to believe that it was from my post. It was not, and I don't want people to think that I ever said that the parent's didn't care about their child. Sunshine is still of the opinion that some of us are being too harsh on the parents, and that is her right! Her implication that she won't be back on this thread leads me to believe that she may be finally seeing some points other than her own, but is reluctant to admit that.

[sunshine 229]

First off, in sunshine's post #161 she lists a second quote without saying who she was quoting, possibly leading the reader to believe that it was from my post. It was not, and I don't want people to think that I ever said that the parent's didn't care about their child. Sunshine is still of the opinion that some of us are being too harsh on the parents, and that is her right! Her implication that she won't be back on this thread leads me to believe that she may be finally seeing some points other than her own, but is reluctant to admit that.

 

I did attribute that quote in post #158 and didn’t realize I needed to do it again in post #161 my apologies for any confusion.

 

“

 

…she may be finally seeing some points other than her own, but is reluctant to admit that.”

 

 

I have seen some other points raised by other posters on this thread all along. I agreed all along that a ship is not an entirely safe environment, I never said it was. From her post it sounds to me as if Cruisemom39 is a bit more strict in the amount of freedom she allows her kids than I was with mine, but I understand her concerns and certainly saw her point in mentioning how much care she exercises to keep them safe. Seeing that did not change my opinion that some of the posts on this thread were rude or out of line.

 

 

One of the nice things about having an intelligent discussion is that sometimes someone does raise a point that you hadn’t thought of or brings new information that causes you to change your original opinion. I haven't changed my opinion so far in this discussion but if I had, I certainly wouldn’t be “reluctant to admit that.”

 

Sorry about posting again. I did imply that I may not be back to this thread and at the time I didn't mean to post here again however, when I see someone attributing completely incorrect motives to my leaving, I did want to come back and set the record straight.

[ilionite65]

Usually when people quote someone they make it clear who they are quoting. People have stated that they haven't read the entire thread so one cannot expect them to realize who you are quoting without it being stated. Since this was the second time you were done with this thread, see post #119, I wonder if you truly are done with it.

[Cruzntime]

When I receive my cruise document there is a form in it authorizing who has charge privileges and the forms must be signed by each person who is to have charge privileges. I submit this form to RCI's staff when checking in at the cruise terminal. If RCI fails to perform their duties correctly and they authorize my DD's seapass then it should not be my liability. I do not go on vacation to micro manage or do book keeping. However, I do save all my receipts in case there are discrepancies and I occasionally check my seapass account if I have time. If one boards the ship with written documents expressing who has charge privileges and RCI messes up then it is RCI's mistake and loss.

 

I want to clarify that my belief listed above is more of a tip to make sure your desires are in writing and that the statement is not to imply the OP did or did not board in the manner described. I do not know the actual and complete circumstances of the OP's boarding procedure, conversation, or other means of conveying their charge desires (other than it is implied their desires were verbal).

 

One thing about it - as active as this thread has been everyone cruising should be well aware of this issue thanks to the OP.

[cruznut]

The problem would happen once and that would be the last time junior went on a cruise we paid for.

[PhoenixCruiser]

Hmmmm, did you hear about the 12 YO that was assulted in a hotel elevator in Orlando :confused: I bet her parents are beating themselves up for giving her way TOO much freedom :eek:

 

###

[Tra4]

isn't it time for his post to die yet???????? Geeezzzz

[PhoenixCruiser]

isn't it time for his post to die yet???????? Geeezzzz

 

Absolutely NOT, remember the OP wanted to *warn* all of us :eek:

 

###

[Flacruiser123]

I recall that in 2003 my 8 year old neice was very upset when my sister wouldn't give her her card right away - she and her sister collect plastic cards of any sort (gift cards, expired cards, etc.) just to play with. She really wanted the cruise card right away because it had her name on it...so cool...

 

Anyway, it seems RCCL told my sister that the they couldn't de-activate the card when presented at the terminal. I don't remember but I'm sure my sister decided she would not give my neice the card until after she deactivated it at customer services. I do remember that she said it was her first cruise and she wasn't sure what my neice might do with the card!!

 

Later that evening she gave my neice the card and eveything was fine. No charges.

[cruzelovr]

While I've noticed that the OP hasn't chimed in in awhile, I just thought that maybe she and her DD could go on the Dr. Phil show to see the proper way to handle this situation, and what the OP could have done to prevent it.

 

He'd probably say some good ol' boy saying like "Who's watching the mice while that cat's nappin'" or something like that...

 

That would be good TV!

[2br~2b]

wow - that's some mistake. I hope they will do something! Wasn't your daughter told that she can not charge? Never happened to me as I only cruised once but it's still some mistake.

 

Why SHOULD RCCL "do something"? This is due to the parents' carelessness. We had this happen in the past with our children too, but never to that extent because we monitor it closely.

 

Be aware - we have found errors on our Seapass account too. If you don't bother to check it daily you may well be charged for something that you did not buy.

[cruzincurt]

Dr. Phil would probably give them another cruise to "straighten out" the problem.