Are cruiselines cancellation policies fair IF they rebook the cabin you cancelled?

[stuNYC]

First let me make it clear that I always buy trip cancellation insurance; but I have always thought that it was blatantly unfair for the cruise line to collect, in fact "double payment" if they rebook the cabin that you cancelled.

 

Depending on when you cancel and if there is a waiting list and the extent they have to discount the cabin closer to departure. the cruiseline could get paid twice for the same cabin.

 

If you compare it to cancellation policies on airlines and hotels; you don't forfeit your entire payment in the case of a last minute cancelation. In the case of airlines you may lose $100 on a restricted far; in the case of hotels the cost of one nights accomodation; but in very few cases EXCEPT CRUISES do you lose your entire payment.

 

I presume the TA also gets their full commission.

 

If you have insurance and you meet the appropriate eligibility clause for cancelation you get a refund from the insurance company. Even then, it may take several months for the insurance company to process your claim before you actually get your money back.

 

I would be interested in your opinons about whether the cruiseline should reimburse you the difference between what you paid and what they may have received in payment upon rebooking your cabin.

 

If you thing about it "cancellations" are usually pure profit for the cruiseline!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brn2crz]

Sound simple enough.

 

But then,could you imagine the paperwork nightmare,and time cost that it would take to allow people to just book and drop without penalty?

 

Sorry,there has to be some incentive to keep your reservation.Between trip insurance,and 70 day 100% refund..I think its certainly fair.

[as41shots]

While I agree with your premise, andit does make sense, from the cruiseline's point of view, let's say they have a waiting list of 3, and 8 last minute cancellations. Let's also say that your group of 8 cabins are the only one that cancelled. They fill three of the eight rooms with the waiting list. Imagine the issues they will face when 3 of your group get "refunds" and 5 do not.

 

That is why there is the insurance.

[Cruising89143]

May not be fair to some but it is the rules that we all agree to when we book a cruise.

[springtxbill]

You know the rules going in and I think it is fair. :)

[stuNYC]

I still can't understand why the cruise industry is different from other service providers such as airlines and hotels. If you book a 7 night hotel accomodation or a business or first class seat on a airline the airline is "losing" the same amount of money as you pay for a 7 day cruise.

 

I am not saying that the cruiseline should absorb the loss IF your cabin is unoccupied; but why should they receive double payment IF they rebook it.

 

This is a "fairness" question. I know that we all have accepted the terms and the cruiselines aren't going to change their policies based on what is "fair" to the passenger. It just gets my goat.

 

The incentive is still there to keep your reservation because under my scenario IF your cabin is unoccupied, you don't receive ANY refund from the cruiseline.

[Nliedel]

That is why you should purchase insurance and understand the cancellation policy before you go in. I know it may seem unfair but then what if you get one cabin re-booked and not another. How do you determine who gets the cabin booked and the refund? Just know what you are agreeing to before final payment.

 

As for hotels it is a different industry. If you cancel a 1 nights reservation the hotel is not going to sail away and be unable to re-sell the room. Airlines can have last minute passengers and can oversell seats because they do not sell specific seats. You bought passage in one specific cabin and they cannot oversell.

[bosteph]

Are you sure about the airlines refund policy? :confused:

[Cruising89143]

I still can't understand why the cruise industry is different from other service providers such as airlines and hotels. If you book a 7 night hotel accomodation or a business or first class seat on a airline the airline is "losing" the same amount of money as you pay for a 7 day cruise.

 

I am not saying that the cruiseline should absorb the loss IF your cabin is unoccupied; but why should they receive double payment IF they rebook it.

 

This is a "fairness" question. I know that we all have accepted the terms and the cruiselines aren't going to change their policies based on what is "fair" to the passenger. It just gets my goat.

 

The incentive is still there to keep your reservation because under my scenario IF your cabin is unoccupied, you don't receive ANY refund from the cruiseline.

 

You're missing the point. Could you imagine the nightmare for the cruise line to keep up with who cancels and who doesn't plus trying to fill the cabins at the last minute would have to be done so at cut rate prices. So why should they do it when they don't have to?

[jwlane]

This is a "fairness" question.

 

If you agree to their terms at booking, you concede it is fair. Besides, the 100% penalty is for cruises cancelled 7 days (generally) from sailing. Given the new advance notice requirements for security purposes, their window for reselling that cabin is very small.

[alexkrn46]

A co worker missed flight due to weather, when she boarded her suite was not available. This did not seem right to me especially since she did not "cancel" her cruise.

It seems as a cosumer you should have some rights.

[stuNYC]

No one has addressed the basic ethical issue; if the cruiseline rebooks the cruise regardless of what penalty stage you are in they are making 100% profit. Is that ethical correct, if they rebook the cabin you cancelled

 

Yes, I agree that everyone should have insurance but what the cruiseline is doing is passing the penalty off to the insurance company.

 

This idea of how burdensome it would be for the cruiseline in this era of computers is not an issue. In fact, it is quite simple. You book cabin 1010 and pay $5000. You cancel 45 days before departure which puts you a 50% penalty phase for a 9 day cruise; so you lose $2500.. They rebook cabin 1010 within the next 45 days for $5000. The cruiseline has made an extra $2500, which they can refund to you or pass it off to the insurance company to refund to you. If they cannot rebook cabin 1010 or have to discount it to $2500, of course you should not get any refund.. If you cancel and they have rebooked the room they can charge a modest 10% (ie. $500 cancellation fee)

 

The cruiseline knows who initially booked cabin 1010 and therefore they know who they can refund the $2500 to. Just like they know who to return the deposit to if you cancel BEFORE the penalty phase.

 

I am talking about what is hypothetically equitable here, NOT WHAT THE CONTRACT SAYS. All I am doing is questioning the policy but I guess I am in the minority and no one cares about the inequities in the "practice" as long as they get their money back somehow (ie. through the insurance company

[sunshine 229]

I don't think it is fair to have a contract which is almost completely one-sided and gives just about every right and every loop hole to the cruise line. At the same time, I don't think fair is the point. Most business will do what it can get away with.

 

If one cruiseline were trying to do things this way they would probably lose business but since they all got on the same band wagon and use the same type of contract if you want to cruise you sign it. Then whatever they do is 'fair' because you have agreed to it:rolleyes:

[Cruisemom39]

Cruise lines are a for-profit business and it is ethical when the rules are spelled out and followed. There is no sleaziness to following one's contract of carriage, agreed to by both parties. They are in it to make money. They charge several times over their profit margin for drinks and the like. Its business. They pay reservations agents to take the initial booking, service calls and cancellation calls. Their account department has to process refunds. All of this also costs them money. They resell each cabin on each ship multiple times from the time it is originally put into their inventory.

[ilionite65]

Why would anyone think that fair and/or ethical have any place in business? Profit is the bottem line. In the case of a cancellation where insurance takes care of the passenger, noone is out, so what is the problem? Why does it bother you that the cruise line makes more money? If insurance wasn't purchased then the passenger made a poor decision, not the fault or responsibility of the cruise line. Again, each passenger knows the policy when booking.

[FinelyCruising]

Heck they are in the business to fill cabins. Do you really think thier job is to keep tabs on who cancelled so they can make that person feel like the industry is fair to those who cancel? Like many hospitality venues, the job is to look forward, not backward. Is that ethical, yup, I think it is.

[maritimemare]

Great question StuNYC. It's really an issue of market power. The cruise lines can get away with it, so they do it. As long as we agree to buy cruises on their terms, they'll continue to do it. It used to be full payment was due 60 days in advance, then they extended it to 70 days in advance. And, if they can, they'll keep pushing it until full payment is due 90 days in advance, I have no doubgt.

 

I agree that it's not fair that the cruiseline rebooks the cabin and gets paid twice. Also, it's a mistake to think because insurance pays, no one is out anything. Hello -- the insurance company is out the claim amount! I work for an insurer (not a travel insurer), so I have little patience for the "no one lost out on that one" attitude!

 

Further, I agree that the cruise lines have been very cagey in insulating themselves from cancellation risks that hotels and other common carriers bear. Hotels often can't fill a room in the last 24 hours. That doesn't mean they demand (and get!) full payment for a week's stay 70 days in advance! If I book a week at a Disneyworld hotel, full payment is not due until I arrive and I can cancel anytime up until 5 days with no penalty whatsoever. Even if I cancel the day of scheduled arrival, I lose only one night's room cost. Perhaps WDW will fill that room, but it's also quite likely they won't.

 

Airlines now charge a penalty if you cancel, but you get a credit toward a future flight for the refund beyond the penalty -- even if you cancel 5 minutes before the flight leaves. And, if you buy a first class seat, it's completely cancellable with no penalty. It's a pretty sure bet the airline won't be able to sell that seat in the last five minutes -- but they absorb some cancellation risk as a cost of doing business. They can overbook and I agree that helps with the risk, but if they aren't overbooked, the seat will go unsold and will be lost forever.

 

So, I agree cruiselines shouldn't get paid twice for the same cabin. And, I go beyond that. I think they need to be more flexible on cancellations generally. Their paperwork, etc., can't be anymore difficult than it is for the airlines and hotels. Gees!

 

But, as long as we buy cruises on their terms, this will continue. I note that RCCL's no discounting policy is showing some holes now. They are clearly not selling all their cabins in the Caribbean during this hurricane season. So, we're starting to see specials and lower prices. Someone in another thread noted they'd had a couple of price declines since they booked.

 

Supply and demand -- it's simple economics! And it applies not just to price, but to other contract terms as well.

[wrp96]

I think it is fair. Imagine if they didn't have the cancellation policies. One could conceivably book a trip for the same week on several lines. Then just wait until they see which one is going to have the lowest fares and cancel all the other ones at the last minute without any penalty. The cruise lines would be left searching for somebody to fill the cabin at a cut rate. Not only would they be out the fare that you should've paid, but say you were holding a cabin that was really popular for that trip. Somebody else who wanted a balcony cabin but couldn't because you were holding it just to see who had the lowest fares is also out the cabin they wanted - maybe they even decided to not go because they couldn't get that cabin, so the cruiseline has lost that fare. Yes, maybe they can resell it and do, but it is usually at a much lower rate than you booked at.

 

Also, cruising is different than an airline or a hotel. With a cruiseline, the passenger list has to be cleared by Homeland Security 72 hours before they leave. It's not like a hotel, which doesn't have to clear their customers at all or an airline that does it at the last minute. Both hotels and airlines can get people that need to travel at the last minute. Cruise lines can't. And a cruise is at least a 3 night trip, so if somebody cancels and they can't fill the space they are out 3 days and nights worth of revenue (in addition to just the fare), but because of the nature of hotels, a hotel can recoup at least part of the revenue lost if somebody with say a weeklong reservation cancels at the last minute because they have the opportunity to let the room out a night at a time if somebody else comes in.

[ilionite65]

And just how is the insurance company out when they have paid the passenger for a justified claim? If the passenger buys insurance, cancels and is covered, then the insurance company is just keeping their part of the bargin! What the cruise line does or does not do with the cancelled cabin has nothing with the insurance!

[cruiseco]

Alright, for those that think the cruise lines are unfair, how exactly would you handle it? Like the airlines with a $100 penalty with the rest as a future credit? Or like the hotels with a one night penalty with the rest refunded? Or something completely different.

 

Take this hypothetical scenario: We (two adults) are both lawyers and never know what our schedule will be. A trial can run long or be postponed -- anything can happen and we might have to cancel at the very last minute. Even up until the day prior we won't know if we can make it. If the trial we're on runs long and we cancel the day prior to departure how much of a penalty should we pay?

[FinelyCruising]

Good question since someone may argue that if you have a primo cabin the cruiseline can book that at the pier as an upgrade and mitigate their losses. ;)

[sunshine 229]

originally posted by maritimemare

I agree that it's not fair that the cruiseline rebooks the cabin and gets paid twice. Also, it's a mistake to think because insurance pays, no one is out anything. Hello -- the insurance company is out the claim amount! I work for an insurer (not a travel insurer), so I have little patience for the "no one lost out on that one" attitude!

 

 

 

I agree with this, but would like to add that the insurance company is not going to put up with lower profits for long, so they will turn right around and slide the cost back onto the public with increased ratesso in the end it will be you and I who lose out on that one.

 

But, as long as we buy cruises on their terms, this will continue.

 

Right on. But the cruiselines so far are presenting a united front on the issue of the very one-sided cruise contract so unless everyone is ready to give up cruising there is no way around it. The only things that I think will change this are if one cruise line breaks ranks and offers a more equitable arrangement ( not INHO likely to happen.) Or if enough people get burnt with cancelled cruises or cruises which are not at all what they were supposed to be ( missed ports, delayed departures etc.) decide that cruising is not for them and switch to landbased vacations.

 

The bottom line considerations, not any concept of fairness, is the only thing that is going to change the present policy.

[cruiseco]

Here's a few more scenarios:

 

I booked a cabin for $1500 and have to cancel at the last minute. Luckily the cruise line is able to resell the cabin but they only get $1000 for it. What's my penalty?

 

I've booked a Cat(G) cabin on a guarantee basis. At the time I cancel no specific cabin has been assigned yet. At the time of cancellation there's still five Cat(G) cabins available for sale. When the ship sails all but two are sold. Was my cabin resold?

[beachguy]

(Beachchick here)

 

Not all airlines offer the opportunity to rebook (for a fee) if you cancel non-refundable fares.

 

In more than one instance, hotels or similar accomodations we were considering had a policy of charging for 100% of the nights if you cancelled after a certain time.

 

As for the insurance companies, I do agree that they have some legititmate complaints (and I would never say that "nobody is out any money"), but travel insurers are well aware of the cruise lines (and others) cancellation penalties (and the fact that they can rebook the cabin for an additional fare) before they offer the insurance to customers. If they have a complaint with how this works, they need to work it out with the cruise lines, not their customers.

 

beachchick

[Croozin Soozin]

My feeling is that once you cancel, the cabin is no longer yours.