Argentina Forces Cunard Cruise Ship to Lower British Flag

[balf]

 

 

As both sides are obvously not willing to compromize I am not able to point my finger to one - and who will?

 

I guess that if France invaded Germany there would be little talk of compromise.

 

David.

[balf]

There are no national borders in Europe - and the UK is part of it :p

 

Thankfully we don't have a United States of Europe yet.

 

Of course there are borders.

 

David.

[cunardaddict]

I guess that if France invaded Germany there would be little talk of compromise.

 

David.

 

Napoleon did...;)

[cunardaddict]

Thankfully we don't have a United States of Europe yet.

 

Of course there are borders.

 

David.

 

Yes, on the continent as noticable as the border between Georgia and Tennessee...

[DDBINK1]

I wonder what would have happened in an Argentine port if a passenger with a larger British Flag had hung it out on their balcony??

[Salacia]

I wonder what would have happened in an Argentine port if a passenger with a larger British Flag had hung it out on their balcony??

 

I imagine the passenger would be told by the captain to remove the flag immediately as it could provoke a response that would endanger the safety of the ship and passengers. I suppose it is even possible that a passenger who attempted what could be viewed as a "provocative act" (albeit it a patriotic one) could find themselves in the brig.

[newjoisey]

cool a new cunard excursion while in an argentina port....man a deck gun. i wanna see the little icon on how hard it is todo. :D

[cunardaddict]

cool a new cunard excursion while in an argentina port....man a deck gun. i wanna see the little icon on how hard it is todo. :D

 

Before this will happen the old tradition of clay-pidgeon shooting has to come back on board of Cunard ships.

[balf]

Before this will happen the old tradition of clay-pidgeon shooting has to come back on board of Cunard ships.

 

They used to have the laser sort on one of P&O ships but axed it because of the pollution of the sea by the clays, can you believe.

 

David.

[cunardaddict]

They used to have the laser sort on one of P&O ships but axed it because of the pollution of the sea by the clays, can you believe.

 

David.

 

I do believe any nonsense in connection with pollution prevention. We have "Muelltrennung" - every household has to seperate some types of garbage -.

[moggi1964]

I was on baord the Sun Princess whilst the Falklands Conflict was taking place (my brother was there with the Army).

 

We docked in Caracas (La Guaira) and were advised not to go ashore. The Pax were shuttled out of there on buses as usual.

 

We had people throwing stones at the ship but they weren't close enough to hit us.

 

When we left the Captain played "Don't cry for me argentina" over the ships speaker system which gave us all a laugh. The following morning I delivered a telegram to the Captain from P&O head office which indicated that his choice of departure music was inappropriate. he said to me "have you read this?" I said "No sir!" and he read it out word for word on the bridge and said it likely wouldn't be the last time he got in trouble. He asked me to take it to the printer on board (a guy we called Caveman as he was tucked away in a small room below decks) and have him frame it.

 

We did not return to LG whilst I remained on board though I left soon after and joined the SS Uganda when she refitted as a troop carrier and returned to the bleak place the people from both sides fought and died over!

 

Pointless waste of life.

[bcscot]

If it wasn't for the fact that people had died over this issue, Argentina's claim to the Falkland Islands would be laughable. The British were among the first to sight these islands and were probably the first to land there. The British did indeed establish a small settlement on West Falkland, a year after the French established one on East Falkland. The Spanish believed that they had a right to the islands because of a papal decree dividing the New World between them and Portugal, so their ally, the French, handed over their colony. The Spanish then militarily chased the British out, resulting in the Falklands Crisis of 1770, when the two nations almost went to war over the issue. An agreement was reached and the British returned.

During the mid 1770s, because of economic pressures resulting from problems in their American colonies, the British withdrew from their settlement but maintained a claim over it. The Spanish did the same during the Napoleonic Wars, as their power began to dwindle. What would become Argentina then gained it's independence from Spain and seemed to think that they had a right to the Falklands, just because Spain had been there. An Argentine commercial venture was established, with British permission, provided that they were answerable to the British. They however decided to take control and in doing so, apprehended several American sealers' ships. The U.S.of A. were non too chuffed, sending in their navy to remove the culprits (and many but not all of the inhabitants). The American ambassador in Buenos Aires stated that it was the American position that Argentina had no political control over the Falkland Islands. The Argentines then tried to establish a penal colony there.

With all this going on, the British decided, in 1833, that it was time to restablish their control over the islands. The Argentine military forces on the island consisted of mainly British mercenaries, so there was no fight. The civilians on the island stayed, but there were very few of them. About 1840 the British began to populate the islands, so for about 180 years, the population of the Falkland Islands has been mainly British in origin.

In the 1840s the United States of America waged an aggressive war of conquest against Mexico and took over California and much of what is now the south west of the USA, which used to be part of Mexico. Now to get this thing into perspective, Mexico probably has a greater claim over those American states than Argentina has over the Falkland Islands.

I really do not understand why they cling to this fantasy.

Edited March 21, 2014 by bcscot

[balf]

 

Pointless waste of life.

 

Hardly pointless.

 

David.

[Olliesmum]

SS Uganda and her companions HM Ships Hydra, Herald and Hecla; "Mother Hen and her chicks."

[Olliesmum]

Hardly pointless.

 

David.

 

I think Moggi means that to lose your life in that situation, rather than in your bed at a great age, was pointless.

[newjoisey]

note to self...DO NOT cruise with any cruise line that goes to any active/semi active war zones or ports.waiter i ordered le flambe...not le flamebomb. :D

[moggi1964]

I think Moggi means that to lose your life in that situation, rather than in your bed at a great age, was pointless.

 

Pointless from the perspective that the these types of disagreement should be sorted out without sending men and women to thier deaths.

 

I blame Galtieri, of course because, he initiated it, Maggie (love her or hate her) did what she should have done.

 

My brother spoke of the terrible condition in which he found the majority of the Argentinian conscripts. He gave his old boots to one guy whose shoes were waterlogged and falling apart. Most were happy to get the chance of warmth and hot food.

 

I walked on the decks of one of our ships that were hit, saw the disfigured metal and the impact the intense heat had had. I saw that and knew that young me (and women?) had died on that vessel. Terribly sad. It puts this petty 'lower your flag' stuff into perspective IMHO.

[Jimsgirl]

Had I been the Captain, I would have asked the band to play ON DECK beside the pool "as entertainment when the ship left" and asked them to play such songs as "There will always be an England" "Land of Hope and Glory" etc and had the Public address system turned up to the maximum.

 

If there were flags on board I would have issued them to passengers to wave at the same time.

 

At the time of the Falklands conflict I was living in MA and my neighbours asked "Why fight over such piddling islands " My reply was "For the same reason we fought The Battle of Britain when most Americans (especially the Kennedys) expected us to surrender".

(I was living in the East End of London , beside the docks , and yes I do have a very long memory of the 30's and 40's)

[pmb1]

Had I been the Captain, I would have asked the band to play ON DECK beside the pool "as entertainment when the ship left" and asked them to play such songs as "There will always be an England" "Land of Hope and Glory" etc and had the Public address system turned up to the maximum.

 

If there were flags on board I would have issued them to passengers to wave at the same time.

 

At the time of the Falklands conflict I was living in MA and my neighbours asked "Why fight over such piddling islands " My reply was "For the same reason we fought The Battle of Britain when most Americans (especially the Kennedys) expected us to surrender".

(I was living in the East End of London , beside the docks , and yes I do have a very long memory of the 30's and 40's)

Well said, Lynn. Good for you! All the best, Paul.

[balf]

note to self...DO NOT cruise with any cruise line that goes to any active/semi active war zones or ports.waiter i ordered le flambe...not le flamebomb. :D

 

Black Sea out for you then.

 

David.

[newjoisey]

Had I been the Captain, I would have asked the band to play ON DECK beside the pool "as entertainment when the ship left" and asked them to play such songs as "There will always be an England" "Land of Hope and Glory" etc and had the Public address system turned up to the maximum.

 

If there were flags on board I would have issued them to passengers to wave at the same time.

 

At the time of the Falklands conflict I was living in MA and my neighbours asked "Why fight over such piddling islands " My reply was "For the same reason we fought The Battle of Britain when most Americans (especially the Kennedys) expected us to surrender".

(I was living in the East End of London , beside the docks , and yes I do have a very long memory of the 30's and 40's)

 

great....this action should make it easy for the next cruise ship:rolleyes:

[newjoisey]

Black Sea out for you then.

 

David.

 

not too long ago we opted not to sign up for a med cruise when i saw the security teams that go on the tours of the pyramids. :eek:camels and AK,s:rolleyes:. i guess we will keep sailing in the safer carib. until they require flakjackets and kevlar dresses on formal nights:D. wadda world

[pmb1]

If it wasn't for the fact that people had died over this issue, Argentina's claim to the Falkland Islands would be laughable. ...

See Post #24 above for a bit more history on the subject.

[Jimsgirl]

Check the history of the 30's, the world (including Britain) did nothing to stop Hitler from 1933 on, he marched into one country after another, he built concentration camps, and the rest of the world wore "blinkers"

 

Until l939, then it was Britain and France who said "this is where it stops" , by l940 the French Government gave in, and Britain stood alone.

Joe Kennedy insisted Roosevelt send transport IMMEDIATELY to take him and his family back to the safety of USA.

Churchill ordered the little "weekend" river boats to go over the 30 miles of the channel and bring off 300,000+ men from the beaches of France. Some of these boats were only 16ft long never meant for the sea, and the men who sailed them were CIVILIANS

 

Yes we could have sued for peace , we were so tiny compared to Germany and the lands it controlled. Instead we fought back, for 2 years we fought alone, bombed , our towns and cities in ruins, short of food, short of weapons , and not only the military but civilians , women as well as men. Working day and night , during raids, putting out fires, tending to casualties, queuing for food , we did not lower the flag then and I will not do it now, that goes for the Stars and Stripes as well as the British Flag.

 

BTW The people of Falkland Islands have said they wish to remain "British" . Also I have not forgotten it was Argentina that provided a safe haven for ****'s like Eichman and Mengel and their like.

[balf]

not too long ago we opted not to sign up for a med cruise when i saw the security teams that go on the tours of the pyramids. :eek:camels and AK,s:rolleyes:. i guess we will keep sailing in the safer carib. until they require flakjackets and kevlar dresses on formal nights:D. wadda world

 

Americans largely stopped overseas trips after 911, Europeans largely didn't.

 

Not sure why the difference.

 

David.