Pride of America - Overnight on the Big Island

[pomgit]

Hi all - we're super-excited just booked a trip of the Pride of America for November this year - first time to HI, second time on NCL. Last year we went on the Star around the Baltics - loved the ports, not so keen on NCL, but we've booked again and have figured that we won't spend that much time on the ship so we've not let our previous experience deter us from this AMAZING trip. However, this year we'll have our new addition to the family, our son Sam, with us - should be fun!

 

Back to my question - does anyone know if we can leave the ship in Hilo and pick her up again in Kona? I've just booked in an overnight one way rental car and we are looking at staying close to the Volcanoes National Park. I assume I just need to okay it with corporate before travel and then confirm when we board so we don't generate a delayed departure from Hilo whilst they try and locate us. Thanks in advance for your help!

[clarkg]

Hi all - we're super-excited just booked a trip of the Pride of America for November this year - first time to HI, second time on NCL. Last year we went on the Star around the Baltics - loved the ports, not so keen on NCL, but we've booked again and have figured that we won't spend that much time on the ship so we've not let our previous experience deter us from this AMAZING trip. However, this year we'll have our new addition to the family, our son Sam, with us - should be fun!

 

Back to my question - does anyone know if we can leave the ship in Hilo and pick her up again in Kona? I've just booked in an overnight one way rental car and we are looking at staying close to the Volcanoes National Park. I assume I just need to okay it with corporate before travel and then confirm when we board so we don't generate a delayed departure from Hilo whilst they try and locate us. Thanks in advance for your help!

 

I think it would be okay. I am sure it has been done before. We almost did it because we got a little carried away sight seeing and almost missed the ship. Just tell the front desk so they don't call your name over the intercom over and over again.

[puddles99]

Do a search / read the Hawaii port of call forum. Several people have reported doing this & shared their experiences, tips, & tricks for making things as easy as possible. Enjoy your adventure!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[GeezerCouple]

We'd LOVE to know the answer to this if it is a "yes" and someone has done it.

 

We tried and tried and tried to get NCL to allow it (rather than claiming we got "left behind"), and NCL was adamant about it violating the maritime laws.

Our TA inquired a few times on our behalf.

 

We fought it, and did not understand how it applied, as it was a US-flagged carrier, already allowed to carry passengers between US ports without also stopping at a foreign port. So we weren't sure why those laws applied.

 

But NCL said that not only would we be fined the normal fines (e.g., for getting "left behind"), but - apparently because we made our intentions known by asking - we would not be permitted to get back on in Kona, and our luggage/belongings would be returned to us a few days later in Honolulu.

 

That didn't sound like a good option...

 

GeezerCouple

[buckeye82]

We'd LOVE to know the answer to this if it is a "yes" and someone has done it.

 

We tried and tried and tried to get NCL to allow it (rather than claiming we got "left behind"), and NCL was adamant about it violating the maritime laws.

Our TA inquired a few times on our behalf.

 

We fought it, and did not understand how it applied, as it was a US-flagged carrier, already allowed to carry passengers between US ports without also stopping at a foreign port. So we weren't sure why those laws applied.

 

But NCL said that not only would we be fined the normal fines (e.g., for getting "left behind"), but - apparently because we made our intentions known by asking - we would not be permitted to get back on in Kona, and our luggage/belongings would be returned to us a few days later in Honolulu.

 

That didn't sound like a good option...

 

GeezerCouple

 

 

Wow! Sounds like a NO! to me.

[GeezerCouple]

Right, that sounded "definite" :(

But we aren't 100% certain that the reason NCL gave are valid.

 

There is a reason that NCL is allowed to transport passengers around ONLY US ports in Hawaii, without making a foreign stop.

(It involves the percentage of US-based workers, the wages, etc., and there's been lots of discussion elsewhere about some of these "differences" on Pride of Hawaii vs other NCL ships.)

 

So we aren't sure that the maritime laws NCL is citing are relevant for Pride of America, even though they *would* be for other NCL ships (and ships of most other carriers).

 

We'd love documentation that NCL's reasoning was indeed faulty.

Or why our thinking was in error, so at least we'd understand better.

 

GeezerCouple

[puddles99]

Here's one of the threads that I was remembering that speaks to doing this: "The somewhat definitive guide to skipping a port on the POA." (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1836504)

 

Good Luck!

[GeezerCouple]

Here's one of the threads that I was remembering that speaks to doing this: "The somewhat definitive guide to skipping a port on the POA." (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1836504)

 

Good Luck!

 

What a great post you directed us to - thanks!

 

I think the lava flow changed, and those views, especially into the water, aren't the same anymore?

 

But I guess the moral to the story here is "DON'T ASK!"

 

We had (naively) sort of assumed it would be "no different than if one missed the shipped by accident". Hey, could happen, right? ;)

 

But we were assured that even in that case, there was a mandatory fine, imposed by powers other than NCL. (I think it was $300 pp.)

 

What we would like to know is whether the maritime laws apply to PoA or not.

 

Our understanding is still that because of all of the special requirements that NCL had to comply with in order to have only stops in the USA without a foreign port, these laws do NOT apply.

(There is a *reason* that other ships calling at Hawaii with several stops there ALSO call at British Columbia or Mexico, even if just for a few hours.)

 

After all, the purpose of the maritime laws, as we understand them, are to protect USA-based shipping. And NCL complies with that FOR THE ONE SHIP, Pride of America.

(So theoretically, it seems they could run a ferry service around the island, and let passengers get on and off on any schedule, although that would be a bit of a nightmare for reservations and poor housekeeping!)

 

Any attorneys out there?

NOT looking for a legally binding answer, just so we understand whether the maritime laws "probably do or probably don't" apply to PoA - but someone who is more accustomed to reading legalese than we are.

 

Thanks!

 

As it stands, we'll probably make another trip back to the Big Island after the cruise. I'm not sure how the poster in the linked report made it to the volcano at night AND the top of the observatory that same night.

We want to do both, as long as we've flown thousands of miles and are "there" :)

 

GeezerCouple

[Pszaffveauhraunne]

One other little thing to consider: there's the possibility that the seas off Kona will be too heavy for the tenders, and you won't be able to rejoin the ship the next day.

[pomgit]

Thanks everyone, especially to Puddles99 for direction to that super-detailed post. That was exactly our plan - overnight at Volcanoes National Park.

 

Yep, we're fully aware Kona is a tender port and therefore it increases the likeliness of skipping the port. Now to check if that scenario would be covered by travel insurance! Thanks again!

Edited April 8, 2014 by pomgit

[smeyer418]

What a great post you directed us to - thanks!

 

I think the lava flow changed, and those views, especially into the water, aren't the same anymore?

 

But I guess the moral to the story here is "DON'T ASK!"

 

We had (naively) sort of assumed it would be "no different than if one missed the shipped by accident". Hey, could happen, right? ;)

 

But we were assured that even in that case, there was a mandatory fine, imposed by powers other than NCL. (I think it was $300 pp.)

 

What we would like to know is whether the maritime laws apply to PoA or not.

 

Our understanding is still that because of all of the special requirements that NCL had to comply with in order to have only stops in the USA without a foreign port, these laws do NOT apply.

(There is a *reason* that other ships calling at Hawaii with several stops there ALSO call at British Columbia or Mexico, even if just for a few hours.)

 

After all, the purpose of the maritime laws, as we understand them, are to protect USA-based shipping. And NCL complies with that FOR THE ONE SHIP, Pride of America.

(So theoretically, it seems they could run a ferry service around the island, and let passengers get on and off on any schedule, although that would be a bit of a nightmare for reservations and poor housekeeping!)

 

Any attorneys out there?

NOT looking for a legally binding answer, just so we understand whether the maritime laws "probably do or probably don't" apply to PoA - but someone who is more accustomed to reading legalese than we are.

 

Thanks!

 

As it stands, we'll probably make another trip back to the Big Island after the cruise. I'm not sure how the poster in the linked report made it to the volcano at night AND the top of the observatory that same night.

We want to do both, as long as we've flown thousands of miles and are "there" :)

 

GeezerCouple

while Maritime laws do apply the Psva does not as it applies only to non-US flagged vessel. Since the POA is US flagged there would be no fine. The csr's read from rote answers that apply to most of NCL's ships but not the POA. There may be an issue with CBP but that too doesn't apply to the POA. sometimes just gigo-garbage in garbage out.

Edited April 9, 2014 by smeyer418

[GeezerCouple]

while Maritime laws do apply the Psva does not as it applies only to non-US flagged vessel. Since the POA is US flagged there would be no fine.

 

Interesting!

This is exactly what we thought, from our non-expert reading...

 

And is it forbidden to allow passengers off mid-way (from one US port to another), rather than requiring they go Honolulu to Honolulu, for the same reason, it being a US flagged ship?

 

We didn't want to pay an attorney actually to review the regs/laws/etc., given how adamant *everyone* was about this NOT be allowed, and the fine being imposed not by NCL but by some unspecified authorities.

 

Thanks.

 

GeezerCouple

[smeyer418]

Interesting!

This is exactly what we thought, from our non-expert reading...

 

And is it forbidden to allow passengers off mid-way (from one US port to another), rather than requiring they go Honolulu to Honolulu, for the same reason, it being a US flagged ship?

 

We didn't want to pay an attorney actually to review the regs/laws/etc., given how adamant *everyone* was about this NOT be allowed, and the fine being imposed not by NCL but by some unspecified authorities.

 

Thanks.

 

GeezerCouple

 

when NCL started the American flag runs with up to three! ships they in fact allowed people to book less than a week. it became too complicated and they stopped it. I think it just became easier to say "its the law" than "we don't allow it."

[GeezerCouple]

when NCL started the American flag runs with up to three! ships they in fact allowed people to book less than a week. it became too complicated and they stopped it. I think it just became easier to say "its the law" than "we don't allow it."

 

Thanks VERY much.

 

This is what we began to suspect after our own reading of the various maritime laws/regs. We've got limited legalese background, but enough to think the concerns were not relevant to the Pride of America.

 

Does anyone have anything to document that any of the NCL ships EVER allowed passengers to come aboard and leave at other than Honolulu (or whichever port the ship began the 7 cruise, if it was not Honolulu for any of the other original ships sailing Hawaii)?

 

NCL could just state "these are our rules" (perhaps adding it just gets too complicated otherwise), rather than hiding behind irrelevant "maritime laws".

After all, they have no competition with the 7-night Hawaii circuit...

 

Thanks again.

 

GeezerCouple

[hateswaterloves2cruise]

Several years ago 16 of us made this trip. One couple had family in Hilo. They disembarked (with overnight luggage) and stayed with the family and rejoined the ship in Kona the next afternoon. NCL was aware of this prior to it occurring. I didn't read the thread quoting law but why would it be any different than when the ships used to move around Bermuda. We didn't have to be onboard when they did that either.:confused:

[GeezerCouple]

Several years ago 16 of us made this trip. One couple had family in Hilo. They disembarked (with overnight luggage) and stayed with the family and rejoined the ship in Kona the next afternoon. NCL was aware of this prior to it occurring. I didn't read the thread quoting law but why would it be any different than when the ships used to move around Bermuda. We didn't have to be onboard when they did that either.:confused:

 

Thanks!

 

The situation (or so claimed by NCL) is specific to sea transportation of passengers (goods, too, I think?) between 2 US ports (passenger getting off at port other than where starting). So anything at Bermuda wouldn't be relevant.

 

However, what you are reporting about your friends at Hilo --> Kona is EXACTLY what this is about (but it could be SF and LA, also, etc.).

 

The US maritime laws require that NO foreign carriers (that is *FOREIGN* ships, the issue here) can transport between different US ports without also making a stop at a foreign port.

For some reason, Vancouver or Mexico "work", but IIRC, most/all(?) Caribbean ports do not work.

 

NCL had to get ships flagged as US carriers, with US workforce and wages/labor laws/etc., for the Hawaii circuit. Originally there were 3 such ships, but the others were renamed and moved to other routes.

 

It's precisely because of all the steps NCL had to go through for PoA - now a US-flagged ship - that means those laws should NOT apply.

 

Anyway, that's how we understood our reading of the actual maritime law, but we aren't attorneys.

 

Thanks again!

 

GeezerCouple

[smeyer418]

T

The US maritime laws require that NO foreign carriers (that is *FOREIGN* ships, the issue here) can transport between different US ports without also making a stop at a foreign port.

For some reason, Vancouver or Mexico "work", but IIRC, most/all(?) Caribbean ports do not work.

 

..

 

GeezerCouple

 

No, to start at one US port and end in another on a foreign flagged requires a stop at not just any foreign port but one that is defined as a distant foreign Port(which is not North America or the Caribbean). South America and the ABC islands qualify.

But this has nothing to do with an American flagged vessel. BTW since Bermuda is a foreign port changing there isn't a problem BUT Cunard won't transport passengers when it ends one cruise in Bayonne and starts another in Brooklyn. It makes the b2b passengers go by bus.

Edited April 9, 2014 by smeyer418

[GeezerCouple]

No, to start at one US port and end in another on a foreign flagged requires a stop at not just any foreign port but one that is defined as a distant foreign Port(which is not North America or the Caribbean). South America and the ABC islands qualify.

But this has nothing to do with an American flagged vessel. BTW since Bermuda is a foreign port changing there isn't a problem BUT Cunard won't transport passengers when it ends one cruise in Bayonne and starts another in Brooklyn. It makes the b2b passengers go by bus.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I thought that was why some of the ships make a very brief stop in Mexico, for example.

Must be another reason for that(?).

 

It's still difficult to figure out precisely what is legally mandated, and what NCL has selected to do in Hawaii (possibly claiming it's legally mandated when it isn't - that's the real question here).

 

Thanks again for the correction.

 

GeezerCouple

[smeyer418]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I thought that was why some of the ships make a very brief stop in Mexico, for example.

Must be another reason for that(?).

 

It's still difficult to figure out precisely what is legally mandated, and what NCL has selected to do in Hawaii (possibly claiming it's legally mandated when it isn't - that's the real question here).

 

Thanks again for the correction.

 

GeezerCouple

the brief stop allows them to return to the same US port(San Diego) that they left from. The fly by technical stops have ended for the most part they now at least allow the passengers to get off and they stay for a few hours more. If you can round trip to the same US port with at least one stop at any foreign port(distant or nearby) Mexico is a nearby one.

 

There may be some rules not in the PVSA that apply only to that NCL ship. I don't know of them but I do know they are not allowed to make regular stops at other US State ports. Its in the enabling legislation that allowed NCL to complete the Pride Of America in a German shipyard. Its not only being American Flagged and built but the ship has to be American maintained too. Its a long story but the POA was bought out of bankruptcy of an American cruise line and an American shipyard. No US shipyard would complete it and NCL sought and got an exemption to allow it to be completed in Germany. It came with some strings. I don't know all of them.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_of_America

 

http://www.gao.gov/assets/250/241568.html

Edited April 9, 2014 by smeyer418