Princess Auto-Tipping????? Yes/No?

[Pam in CA]

I was talking with our room steward on RCI. He was responsible for 50 rooms. He had to pay for his assistant. $3.50 x 2 to a room x 7 days x 50 weeks in a year, would be $122,500. Many rooms have 3 or 4 beds, so he would make more. If 10 rooms a week had a 3rd person he would get another $12,250 which totals $134,750. If he paid his assistant $34,000 he would have $100,000 tax free in us dollars. Not bad compared to what they could make in their home counties.

That sounds like a lot of money but I believe they work for 6 or 9 months and then are off for 3 months. On Princess, I also don't think they're responsible for 50 cabins; not sure how many. Plus, you have people who remove the auto-tipping and forget to leave something as well as people like me who often cruise single in a cabin. The stewards (and other crew) work VERY hard for their money. Except for a few hours off, they work 24/7, 7 days a week during their contract.

 

While on the Royal Princess this past Spring, I was talking to the guy in the Photo Dept. He was saying that he is paid in US$ but that with the devaluation of the $, he's making about half of what he did a year or two ago in Pounds Sterling.

[debbieuk]

I can only echo Debbie and Kevins reply and congratulate them on a posting clearly setting out why we Brits sometimes have a moan about auto-tipping.

 

My original posting was really more a swipe at Princess etc. who dont pay their staff enough to compensate for tipping. However, I have come to the conclusion that tipping will always be a bone of contention for some, particularly non US citizens, and great convenience for others. As it is my first cruise, maybe I will feel differently after experiencing the level of service, being waited on hand and foot does sound like heaven! And please let me assure you all, I in no way will 'stiff' my steward etc. we are eating stale bread and gruel as we speak so I can save up for it! Thank you all for such a lively discussion and please dont refuse to get to know us moaning old misers on your cruises, we are very nice really!

[donna5]

Thanks for the info.

 

You all should get together and start your own travel agency over there for cruises.

[coiran]

I was talking with our room steward on RCI. He was responsible for 50 rooms. He had to pay for his assistant. $3.50 x 2 to a room x 7 days x 50 weeks in a year, would be $122,500. Many rooms have 3 or 4 beds, so he would make more. If 10 rooms a week had a 3rd person he would get another $12,250 which totals $134,750. If he paid his assistant $34,000 he would have $100,000 tax free in us dollars. Not bad compared to what they could make in their home counties.

 

50 rooms is hard to believe - they could not do that many every day and do a proper job - Princess stewards have 16 -20 cabins to tend to. I am not questioning your numbers, but I certainly would not want to be in one of his cabins.

 

Ron

[Brad1185]

He said 50 rooms. He also said he was quitting because of overwork. So if he made $100,000 as my calculations suggest, its still not enough.

[phillipahain]

UK Lady has very clearly stated all the reasons we get stiffed in the UK by Princess , Celebrity etc etc

 

If only we could get together and start our own travel agency

 

Unfortunately thats not an easy task in the UK and theres all kinds of rules and regulations foinsted on them by our government etc

 

But one thing is certain Princess is making mega mega bucks at the expense of UK passengers

[spongerob]

I think the idea that Brits are overcharged is a convenient overgeneralization. The couple from Wales we dined with on Golden Princess told us that they booked the cruise because it was cheaper for them than any comparable land-based vacation in the UK. For a minisuite, they paid about 75 pounds per person per day. That definitely is not 4 times what we paid - in fact, it was a better price than we got, and I thought our price was fair.

 

Oh, and tipping in the UK was rather common, and appreciated. No one ever refused a tip.

[coiran]

He said 50 rooms. He also said he was quitting because of overwork. So if he made $100,000 as my calculations suggest, its still not enough.

 

OK - I don't know your circumstances - but - $100,000 per year, per your post tax free - 6 months on and 2 months off - no expenses - room and board furnished - no higher education - you can't do that anywhere that I know unless you rob banks for a living.

 

Ron

[sultan_sfo]

Yep -- unless you are Bill Gates! /Sultan

 

OK - I don't know your circumstances - but - $100,000 per year, per your post tax free - 6 months on and 2 months off - no expenses - room and board furnished - no higher education - you can't do that anywhere that I know unless you rob banks for a living.

 

Ron

[Murphey]

He said 50 rooms. He also said he was quitting because of overwork. So if he made $100,000 as my calculations suggest, its still not enough.

 

Brad...we surely misunderstood your post???

[phillipahain]

Spongebob

 

Your couple from Wales must have been lucky and "got a deal" because I have yet to see Mini suites being sold at that price in the UK

 

As for comparable accomodation in the UK ............i agree that a top class hotel would be more expensive .

 

I can still tell you that tipping in service industries across the UK has generally declined quite severely in recent years

 

One still cant escape the fact as has already been pointed out by others the costs of living in the UK are very high yet our salary levels do not match it nor are they higher than the USA

 

Even Walmarts in the UK does not match the cheap prices they sell for in USA !!

[MissLioness]

Auto tipping is just easier. You don't have to make sure you have a lot of cash at the end of the cruise and don't have to carry all the envelopes around. If you want to tip more we can still get an envelope or just hand it to them. It is no different than tipping in a rest. Actually the amount tipped per day for meals is probably quite low compared if you were tipping in the U.S. at each meal. If the travel agents in other countries are not informing their customers about the tipping policy, then you need to complain to the cruise lines, that they need to make sure the T.A.'s are letting you know what is expected. I know our first cruise, we had read up on cruising and did research(not much of an internet at that time) and I remember the T.A. telling us about tipping and other items.

 

The Princess booklets that we get in the U.S. have pages in the back of the booklet that tells things such as tipping, travel ins., cancellation fees etc. I would hope that they have something like that in the U.K. for you cruisers.

Auto tipping is a scam! You should tip for good service, not because there is some standard tip rate. Might as well just make it another fee rather than a 'tip'.

[SunnyCosmo]

Auto tipping is a scam! You should tip for good service, not because there is some standard tip rate. Might as well just make it another fee rather than a 'tip'.

First off, I had no idea the differences from those outside the U.S. So there is no way to be upset w/anyone from UK inquiring like they have. regarding the last post...that's what I believe Dan was referring to. "Auto" concerns me sometimes but tipping does not. Tip for good service...well guess what it is. It's ALWAYS good, usually great. Vacation or not if ya had breakfast in a restaurant it's about $15...lunch is say $20 and dinner is $50. Now I couldn't afford that everyday in my life but on vacation or when my wife & I go out that's what it costs..approximately. If you are "cheap" and tip 12% that's $10.20 PER DAY yet doesn't even cover someone making up and cleaning your room twice a day..plus all the behind-the-scenes help that person gets.

 

$10 per person per day isn't "some standard tip rate" It is a bare bones MINIMUM amount any reasonable person would tip. If you're the sort who orders a pizza delivered to you home and the bill is $17.25 and you give the guy $18.00 and say keep the change YOU ARE CHEAP and stop trying to rationalize that you're not...not good service ar whatever. Give that same pizza guy a $20 and you're decent.

 

For those unsure of auto/tip, I felt the same way. If you're bitchin about the amount..please do me and yourself a favor by stop talkin about it and making youself look bad, and CHEAP. After you understand it there is no reason to turn off auto/tip EXCEPT TO TIP LESS. If that's you, I feel sorry for you.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Auto tipping is a scam! You should tip for good service, not because there is some standard tip rate. Might as well just make it another fee rather than a 'tip'.

 

At the end of the day it's a wash. Whether it's included in the cruise price or is added on you credit card as a tip one way or another you're paying it. At least with the auto tip you can adjust it if you get bad service.

 

Bill

[MissLioness]

If you're the sort who orders a pizza delivered to you home and the bill is $17.25 and you give the guy $18.00 and say keep the change YOU ARE CHEAP and stop trying to rationalize that you're not...not good service ar whatever. Give that same pizza guy a $20 and you're decent.

 

For those unsure of auto/tip, I felt the same way. If you're bitchin about the amount..please do me and yourself a favor by stop talkin about it and making youself look bad, and CHEAP. After you understand it there is no reason to turn off auto/tip EXCEPT TO TIP LESS. If that's you, I feel sorry for you.

If the pizza place automatically adds in the tip to the cost of the pizza, then I have a problem with it---because it's 'setting a standard tipping rate' --believe what you want, but that's what they are doing. might as well call it a service fee. I give my pizza guy a good tip if he gets there within the time stated (of course within reason and situation taken in consideration) and if he is pleasant. With your 17.25 example--my pizza guy would get 21 or 22 bucks - 2.75 for a pizza guy is cheap in my book. And, a good tip to my pizza guy generally means that he will rememer me the next time he delivers to me. Let me decide the tip - -a tip is not a guarenteed bit of cash they get. I think that auto tipping practices will evenually lead to poorer service. I treat tipping as my chance to show the customer's satisfaction or dissatisfaction of the service. Auto tipping removes that--sure you can adjust your 'tip' but that is not likely going to happen...

[MissLioness]

At the end of the day it's a wash. Whether it's included in the cruise price or is added on you credit card as a tip one way or another you're paying it. At least with the auto tip you can adjust it if you get bad service.

 

Bill

The problem is that it turns into a service fee, not a reward for doing a good job.... Actually, some lines are starting to charge a service fee instead of an auto tipping policy.. I think NCL started something similar--don't quote me--I don't remember all the details--

[donna5]

A service fee cannot be adjusted. If for example you had really bad service and you talked to the waiter or room steward and it didn't improve then you could go to the pursers office and reduce it and include a letter, why it was reduced. We have not had to do that and don't expect to do so, but I always like the option. I think the service would suffer if the employees knew they were getting the service fee no matter what the service is. And most people also add more. And of course there are those that make demands and treat the employees with no respect and don't leave anything.

 

I can understand people in other countries that don't have a choice after booking(finding out about auto tipping or plain old tipping) getting upset, since they can't cancel. But for the rest (U.S.) if you don't like the auto tipping, there are other cruise lines and vacations you may take that do not have auto tipping.

 

Misslioness just got her panties in a bunch, when she posted about the free ipod and I called it a scam. I won't take it personally. Be happy. Don't worry.

[MissLioness]

A service fee cannot be adjusted. If for example you had really bad service and you talked to the waiter or room steward and it didn't improve then you could go to the pursers office and reduce it and include a letter, why it was reduced. We have not had to do that and don't expect to do so, but I always like the option. I think the service would suffer if the employees knew they were getting the service fee no matter what the service is. And most people also add more. And of course there are those that make demands and treat the employees with no respect and don't leave anything.

 

I can understand people in other countries that don't have a choice after booking(finding out about auto tipping or plain old tipping) getting upset, since they can't cancel. But for the rest (U.S.) if you don't like the auto tipping, there are other cruise lines and vacations you may take that do not have auto tipping.

 

Misslioness just got her panties in a bunch, when she posted about the free ipod and I called it a scam. I won't take it personally. Be happy. Don't worry.

Dear Donna, you've got me all wrong! - feel free to say what you want....

 

I agree with you that if you get really bad service, you should by all means reduce your tip---I don't necessarily think a letter is necesary--I've been in the hospitality industry long enough to know that waiters and other service personell know when they.. when they suck, to be frank. Most of those rely on people tipping the traditional standards... And you know, that's not too far from what happens... many people tip because they feel obligated to tip, and they tip what 'society' as deemed the norm (12-18%).

 

Like you, I always like the option-- and auto tipping can be seen as the first step in taking away that option. It failed for NCL---they were planning a fleetwide move from 'an automatic gratuity being added to shipboard accounts to what the company called a "service charge"'. This obviously blew up and they reverted back to 'the old fashioned way. You're right, that if you don't like auto tipping, cruise elsewhere, but that doesn't let the cruisline know how you feel. You need to speak up as did the folks on NCL's ship. If all those folks just sucked it up and cruised with another line, NCL might still have the auto tip turned service charge--and what's to stop the industry from moving to service charges??

[bdjam]

Just some observations. I understand the differences as described between booking in the US and booking in the UK. But the bottom line is that those who work on board the ships depend on tips. Just because the full extent of tipping isn’t disclosed to those who live in the UK is no reason to short those who work on board the ships. And right – the culture in the UK and US is different – in the US, service jobs are low paid because the management knows that tips will make up the difference. When dealing with a US company, one should understand this as the norm. It would seem to me that Travel Agents, whether in the UK or the US would have the information on auto-tipping handy and could convey it to their customers. It’s not like they haven’t dealt with Princess before. Maybe the issue is there…?

Second, auto-tipping is not compulsory and it is not a way to remove the ability to tip as you please. Right, the service charge at NCL didn’t work. That doesn’t mean that auto-tipping will become a service charge. And frankly, given the work that those on board do – and only occasionally is that work not exceptional – I think the auto tip is warranted. What some of you don't understand about working on these ships is that there's a lot of abuse handed out by two to three thousand passengers each week. If those tips help to cushion that a bit, I'm all for them.

[dan40]

OK, I tried to be nice and leave this thread. I posted that I now understand that things are very different in the UK. And that its not unreasonable for them to be upset by "the suprise tipping" since they are purposely uninformed about tipping by their travel industry. That post vanished into the board problems ether.

 

Now there have been some new complaints about auto-tips being a fee or the same as a service fee. Its not, it is a convience and can be removed by the customer [or increased]. TO THE CHEAPOS, its a major hassle and embarrassment to remove. Thats a good thing.

In a perfect world there would be no need for auto tips. Does anyone not know its NOT a perfect world? As many times previously stated, I have cruised over 40 times over more than 30 years [maybe 40 years]. Regretfully I had to observe the need for auto-tipping grow. 2 things happened. One, cruising became more and more mainstream instead of just for the newly wed and nearly dead. As that transition occured, attendence at the final dinner fell off [TIP TIME]. The second thing that happened is that minor snack bars morphed into full buffets and alternative dining. Then the main dining rooms became ghost towns on tip night. Because the cheapskates could now stuff their bellies and not face the waiters they were stiffing [hmmm, stuffing and stiffing?...oh well]

I'm talking about dining rooms being MORE than half empty, meaning more than half the pax were not tipping ATALL. For those that claim service has declined since auto-tips, I remind you that this cheapness was happening in the "good old days" of service.

Meanwhile the number of cruise ships was increasing geometrically and hence the need for new service people increased at the same rate. But the lines knew they could not attract or keep good people when they weren't being paid. So increase their expense buy paying higher saleries [meaning higher cruise rates] or FORCE the deadbeats to tip by making it difficult for them to stiff the help.

So we have auto-tips which makes it easy for me to do what I was going to do anyway and if someone is really outstanding I can give that person more in cash.

So I make the blanket statement: If you're against voluntary auto-tipping its because you want an easier way to be CHEAP and stiff the crew.

If you're the 1 in 1000 where I'm wrong, I apoligize.

 

Dan

[English Tim]

On my last two cruises tipping was still in envelopes. After giving the tips on the final evening, the service standards dropped considerably, as the restaurant staff seemed to be looking forward to their next clients. If this is the case with auto tipping, when is the final time that this can be removed from the on-board account?

 

I appreciate that removing the tip would penalise all the other crew who had worked so hard, so what is the best solution?

[OnTheRocks]

Botham, I've noticed that some crew seem to change their attitude a little after tips were delivered, but those were in the minority. One thing to consider is that the crew has a very long night and day ahead of them with turning the ship around. Luggage has to be collected, everything needs to be cleaned, all the room linens changed, and so on. Most crew members get very little sleep due to all the extra work.

 

On the other hand, I have had crew members approach me after we delivered tips and thank us, and in those cases where we have run across the same crew member in later travels, they have always welcomed us back with smiles and hugs.

[MissLioness]

So maybe restaurants should start auto-*tipping for all customers. Just another service industry, right. Take away any inititive to please customers--after all they need to get paid. It's not like they chose that job, right. Working in the hospitality industry was forced upon them. And I'm sure they had no other choice but do this. Come on--get real.

 

I tip well because I choose to--rather, I tip because I choose to. I tip more for better service, and much less for poor service. Those people who don't tip at all- -well, that's their choice, and nothing you can do or say to change their minds.

 

There is nothing that says that tipping is required. To say that these people rely on tips is a touchy subject. Sure, the tips help improve their income, but remember, it was their choice to work in that industry. Most of the world doesn't even believe in tipping to the extent the U.S. does.

 

If someone is going to say that people who are against auto-tipping are cheap, then I say companies that 'force' employees to rely on tips are cheap. Raise their wages, and raise the cruise price a hundred bucks or so a week to cover it. Then don't encourage/pressure tipping.

[dan40]

MissLioness,

You amaze me, you say you tip well for good service and less for poor service [i agree] and you don't care about the waiters circumstances. [again I agree, tips are for service not need]

Then you say cruiselines should raise prices and not require tips. WHAAAATT?

That would be forced tipping with no recourse for poor service. AND as I have stated before, tips would still be given and expected on top of the forced tips. Of course that's only for the excellent servers, the lousy ones would still get your money for poor service.

 

Auto-tipping in restaurants? By all means, YES, in select restaurants. All restaurants that have their patrons eat breakfast lunch and dinner in one of their dining rooms for 3, 4, 7, 10 or more days in a row and then tip at the end of that time. [a few hundred $ by then] Would either have to have very high menu prices to cover the salaries or auto-tips to cover the deadbeats.

Why are you against something that is a convience to you as a tipper and you may add to or subtract from at your whim? And its way more fair to the excellent servers.

Dan

[MissLioness]

MissLioness,

You amaze me, you say you tip well for good service and less for poor service [i agree] and you don't care about the waiters circumstances. [again I agree, tips are for service not need]

Then you say cruiselines should raise prices and not require tips. WHAAAATT?

Please be careful. That's not quite what I said. I didn't say anything about them not 'requiring' tips. I understand that tips are NOT required---a tip or gratuity is defined as something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service. This is why I don't like auto tipping--they take away the voluntary part of it and unless you go out of your way, your now obligated to this 'tip'. The intent of my thought was that if a company raises prices, and pays the employee better, the company would not have to encourage tipping to supplement the employees income. Bad service, you say... well, fire the employee. There are plenty of people who ar looking for jobs. ---in a perfect world, this would work wonderfully.

Auto-tipping in restaurants? By all means, YES, in select restaurants. All restaurants that have their patrons eat breakfast lunch and dinner in one of their dining rooms for 3, 4, 7, 10 or more days in a row and then tip at the end of that time. [a few hundred $ by then] Would either have to have very high menu prices to cover the salaries or auto-tips to cover the deadbeats.

Again, what you describe, I still see in reality as a service charge. If a restaurant raises prices and pays higher wages, and patrons don't tip - for most people, the bill at the end is the same. For the deadbeats, well, they won't eat out.

Why are you against something that is a convience to you as a tipper and you may add to or subtract from at your whim? And its way more fair to the excellent servers.

It's principal. Don't tell me what I'm going to tip--rather don't assume this is what I should tip.

 

Perhaps we can agree to disagree on the auto-tipping. I think we can both agree that tipping for good service is a good thing, and cheap patrons and deadbeats should be given a lesson on tipping--perhaps even given poor service to 'help' them better understand how the hospitality industry works.

 

I hope I haven't offended you with anything I've said--that is not the intent.