Just talked to Norweigan about udp, ubp

[Project-College]

The only item I did not see listed about the recent decision to add 18% tip to the UDP is:

 

For persons that prepaid or received this package as part of a 'freebee' promo... March 20 is the important date.

 

After that, all UDP have the 18% tip attached.

 

I know that many of you have stated that the Cruise Cons. at NCL are not always 'let's say accurate' but I called three time and spoke to 3 different persons, (asking one to email me with the info) and each stated the above without my identifying it first.

 

If anyone finds out different... let me know as I would be surprised if they would note that in an email, with the cruise consultants signature, if it was inaccurate.

 

PS: To be honest, I would still be taking advantage of the UDP if the 18% WAS added on BUT I would be disappointed... as I asked that question during booking.

[trex-de]

Seems like NCL is giving us a new tipping culture - a mix between some European countries (no tipping, already included in the price and thus salary) and the U.S. (Tipping expected). In either case, I do not know what the server "makes"; I do my best to understand the local practices so I don't stiff anyone.

 

To me, NCL is not marketing this well. I knew how much I tipped stewards, servers, etc before, but I have no clue how much of my DSC goes to each and evidently NCL wants it that way.

 

As previously posted, I would not be surprised if the "salary" is reduced and the balance made up by tips. I understand they can do what they want in international law.

[punkincc]

I just want to know if my gratuity is treated as a tip, or as an "incentive".

 

Well, a "tip" is the same as "incentive". Don't get hung up on semantics. On NCL, the DSC IS the "tip" (incentive). So is the 18% auto gratuity. It was always my understanding that the DSC took the place of "tips" and that was why there was no need to "tip" anyone included in this pool. Now apparently, a lot of people felt it was necessary to add extra to the bill or cash tip in addition to the DSC. I never did. And they were clear on who was not included, like butlers, and we were told they needed to be compensated for service at our discretion. Some will argue all day about the difference between "service charge" and "tip", but to me it is pretty clear NCL considers the DSC as taking the place of the need to tip for service. Otherwise, a service charge is just that and has nothing to do with pay.

 

If you really want to reward a specific person who has just done something extraordinary, then put a cash tip in his pocket, or write up an NCL Hero Card or tell his supervisor.

[swedish weave]

To make this a little more complicated, the servers in the specialty restaurants are serving some who pay per meal, some who get the meal and wine as a platinum perk, some who were given the udp as a booking bonus, some who bought the udp before the 18% was added, and some who bought it after that.

 

Can anyone tell us how NCL is going to sort that out so the servers are compensated fairly ? Also, is the 18% shared with the cooks and other "behind the scenes" workers" ??? Keep in mind that the workers all have duties that fall under both the DSC and the "specialty fees".

Edited March 29, 2015 by swedish weave

[GEORGET]

I just want to know if my gratuity is treated as a tip, or as an "incentive".

 

 

We all hope that the 18% added to your drink goes directly to your server as now we hope that the 18% add in the specialist eatery or UDP goes to your server.

 

As for the DCP this seems to be now for a smaller group.

 

can anybody explain the higher DCP for suite guests as they will be dinning with the UDP,paying extra to the butler and concierge. plus they have paid far more than anybody else on board.

 

If all charges were included in the upfront price everybody would be happy and those that tip more will feel better and those that stiff would be miffed.

 

would love to see ALL TIPS INCLUDED IN PRICES. just like in Australia.

moan over j

[BecT]

If I choose to eat only in the complimentary restaurants and pay the recommended DSC, then I can safely assume the part of the DSC that is used to provide money to those employees who provided services to me for breakfast, lunch, and dinner is used for that purpose. Doesn't seem to be a problem with how that portion of the DSC is distributed because I used the services for all the meals.

 

However, what happens if I purchase the UDP with the 18% auto gratuity and also pay the DSC, but choose only to eat my dinners in the specialty restaurant? The 18% auto gratuity is supposed to go to those employees who provided services to me for dinner. I understand that and not a problem. But who then now receives the amount of money allocated from my DSC for those providing services to me at dinner in a complimentary restaurant that I did not use? It seems I am paying extra DSC than I should since I didn't eat dinner in a complimentary restaurant.

 

I agree with others, something just doesn't sit right with this.

[punkincc]

We all hope that the 18% added to your drink goes directly to your server as now we hope that the 18% add in the specialist eatery or UDP goes to your server.

 

As for the DCP this seems to be now for a smaller group.

 

can anybody explain the higher DCP for suite guests as they will be dinning with the UDP,paying extra to the butler and concierge. plus they have paid far more than anybody else on board.

 

If all charges were included in the upfront price everybody would be happy and those that tip more will feel better and those that stiff would be miffed.

 

would love to see ALL TIPS INCLUDED IN PRICES. just like in Australia.

moan over j

 

As far as the DSC including a smaller group now, I don't think you can assume this, although that was my first thought as well. We all know the specialty waiters are probably not sitting idle all day and are therefore still working some breakfast and or lunch shifts in the MDR. If so, then they are still taking some portion of their incentive compensation from that DSC a pool even though they get some of the Specialty pool as well.

 

As far as the higher DSC amount for suite guests, that is a puzzler to me as well, unless it is for some part of the Haven Restaurant servers compensation as well. They can't add an 18% to the Haven restaurant fee since it is free, but they CAN up the DSC for suites to take it's place.

 

As far as all charges being included in the fare, unless all cruise lines go to this plan it is never going to happen. When people are comparison shopping, they are looking at who's got the lowest fare.

[punkincc]

However, what happens if I purchase the UDP with the 18% auto gratuity and also pay the DSC, but choose only to eat my dinners in the specialty restaurant? The 18% auto gratuity is supposed to go to those employees who provided services to me for dinner. I understand that and not a problem. But who then now receives the amount of money allocated from my DSC for those providing services to me at dinner in a complimentary restaurant that I did not use? It seems I am paying extra DSC than I should since I didn't eat dinner in a complimentary restaurant.

 

I agree with others, something just doesn't sit right with this.

 

The DSC a covers a lot of people, not just restaurant servers. And presumably you eat breakfast and lunch somewhere. I don't think I'd worry about the fraction for those few dinners in the MDR you did not do. The entire pool is somehow divied up and I guess some lucky steward or server will get a few cents more in their incentive pay.

 

You could just as easily ask yourself what happens to the auto added 18% for those who buy the UDP and then end up eating a few nights in the buffet or MDR. It still goes into the pool to be divided. Just like the 18% paid on UBP packages and you end up drinking not nearly as much as you thought, but you have still paid 18% on the full price and those lucky bartenders got tips without having to take your order or make your drink.

 

All the more reason, IMO, to pay as you go rather than packages.

Edited March 29, 2015 by punkincc

[tgmtgm]

Sailing for the first time on NCL, (next March aboard the Epic from Barcelona) and just finished reading through this thread. Needless to say, my head now hurts. Way too much processing and conjuncture for me. :eek:

 

Tony

[punkincc]

Sailing for the first time on NCL, (next March aboard the Epic from Barcelona) and just finished reading through this thread. Needless to say, my head now hurts. Way too much processing and conjuncture for me. :eek:

 

Tony

 

All you really need to know is that between the Daily Service Charge and the 18% Auto Grat in the Specialty Restaurants and the 18% auto grat on drinks, you are covered. No need to think about tipping anyone unless you have a butler and concierge or use the kid's club. Just go and enjoy!:)

[BecT]

AOTE=punkincc;46089614]The DSC a covers a lot of people, not just restaurant servers. And presumably you eat breakfast and lunch somewhere. I don't think I'd worry about the fraction for those few dinners in the MDR you did not do. The entire pool is somehow divied up and I guess some lucky steward or server will get a few cents more in their incentive pay.

 

You could just as easily ask yourself what happens to the auto added 18% for those who buy the UDP and then end up eating a few nights in the buffet or MDR. It still goes into the pool to be divided. Just like the 18% paid on UBP packages and you end up drinking not nearly as much as you thought, but you have still paid 18% on the full price and those lucky bartenders got tips without having to take your order or make your drink.

 

All the more reason, IMO, to pay as you go rather than packages.

 

 

I understand the DSC covers more than restaurant servers as I indicated in the first portion of my post. In all honesty I sail only in suites when cruising with NCL and almost all of my breakfasts and lunches are eaten in the suite dining venues. So now when you factor in the additional DSC for suites and choosing to eat in suite only venues rather than the other complimentary restaurants then more of my DSC that is allocated for those complimentary restaurants is again not benefitting me.

 

I was told a long time ago that if I watched my nickles and dimes then my dollars would take care of themselves. I chose to take that advice to heart and now with retirement around the corner I am in a position to enjoy my hard earned relaxation. And as with most retirees I will still need to pay attention to those nickles and dimes Which equates to the fraction you mention that no one actually knows if it even goes to any of the employees at all. If everyone takes the attitude that it's only a fractional amount then all those nickles and dimes add up for the bottom line that NCL receives and they get to laugh all the way to the bank as they deposit our nickle and dimes because we don't know if NCL even gave its employees a pay or incentive increase with the new charges. NCL could very well just be shifting funds from one place to another.

 

As another example, I just recently purchased an RV from a well known camping store. I was strongly urged to purchase their extended warranty plan that was good for only 5 years for only 1, 500. I was told it would only cost $7 more a month. Sounded like a good deal until I read the paperwork and the actual cost amounted to $9, 600 because of deceptive financing practices. Hmmm...

 

No one should ever feel uncomfortable about questioning how they are spending their money before it is handed over to any business or individual. Truly legitimate businesses are transparent in their dealings with its customers. It's a shame that NCL in this case is not, especially since I love their product so much.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

As far as the DSC including a smaller group now, I don't think you can assume this, although that was my first thought as well. We all know the specialty waiters are probably not sitting idle all day and are therefore still working some breakfast and or lunch shifts in the MDR. If so, then they are still taking some portion of their incentive compensation from that DSC a pool even though they get some of the Specialty pool as well.

 

As far as the higher DSC amount for suite guests, that is a puzzler to me as well, unless it is for some part of the Haven Restaurant servers compensation as well. They can't add an 18% to the Haven restaurant fee since it is free, but they CAN up the DSC for suites to take it's place.

 

As far as all charges being included in the fare, unless all cruise lines go to this plan it is never going to happen. When people are comparison shopping, they are looking at who's got the lowest fare.

 

And if they included it in the fare they'd also have to pay TA's commission on that money.

 

Bill

[trex-de]

 

 

 

If you really want to reward a specific person who has just done something extraordinary, then put a cash tip in his pocket, or write up an NCL Hero Card or tell his supervisor.

 

 

NCL agrees with your statement. Directly from their website:

**********

While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to “go the extra mile,” so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them

 

***********

I would think that a vast majority of the service employees feel they "go the extra mile", so aren't we at the same place we were before DSC? The more I read and digest, the "salary" (whether in the form of one combined check or two - one salary and one portion of DSC), that's their base pay. Then "extra" cash is their true tip.

 

The above statement from NCL tells me that they have simply raised the price of the cruise to help THEM pay staff.

 

I still tip extra (but not as much as before DSC). I just hope the staff is not getting less net because the cruise line's practice. We will never know.

[kcfoxy]

Well, a "tip" is the same as "incentive". Don't get hung up on semantics. On NCL, the DSC IS the "tip" (incentive). So is the 18% auto gratuity. It was always my understanding that the DSC took the place of "tips" and that was why there was no need to "tip" anyone included in this pool. Now apparently, a lot of people felt it was necessary to add extra to the bill or cash tip in addition to the DSC. I never did. And they were clear on who was not included, like butlers, and we were told they needed to be compensated for service at our discretion. Some will argue all day about the difference between "service charge" and "tip", but to me it is pretty clear NCL considers the DSC as taking the place of the need to tip for service. Otherwise, a service charge is just that and has nothing to do with pay.

 

If you really want to reward a specific person who has just done something extraordinary, then put a cash tip in his pocket, or write up an NCL Hero Card or tell his supervisor.

 

We will continue to make note of crew that were clearly above and beyond, because our expectations of NCL staff, in general, have been consistently met, and met to the point that we always feel almost an immediate let down when faced with Real Life interactions with service persons back on land :cool:

 

Perhaps the UDP increase will go toward the cooks, servers and hosts in each Specialty venue. And I can always hope they bring back grilled asparagus, Ahi and Brown Sundaes...

[insanemagnet]

the notion that there is no way to separate out compensation for employees who might work shifts in specialty and non-specialty dining is just flat wrong.

 

The point was not that it couldn't be done, but it couldn't be done easily, as you demonstrated in your post, requiring a clocking in system and algorithms to evaluate what each employee is due.

 

Seems like NCL is giving us a new tipping culture - a mix between some European countries (no tipping, already included in the price and thus salary) and the U.S. (Tipping expected).

 

They are just moving to the legal but sneaky approach used by many restaurants in London, but not the rest of the UK. Advertise a price on the menu, but hide away in small print that an 'optional' service charge applies.

 

We all hope that the 18% added to your drink goes directly to your server as now we hope that the 18% add in the specialist eatery or UDP goes to your server.

 

So, three customers ordering drinks. One is paying per drink, one has paid for UBP, and one has free UBP. Each receipt will show an 18% gratuity, but do you think that the server will get the same from each? If so, where does the 18% come from for the person that had the free UBP?

 

can anybody explain the higher DCP for suite guests as they will be dinning with the UDP,paying extra to the butler and concierge. plus they have paid far more than anybody else on board.

 

Simple. Suites cost more, so suite customers can afford to pay more.

 

It doesn't take any more effort to pour a $10 glass of wine than a $20 glass of wine, but the $20 customer will pay twice the 18% gratuity.

 

All you really need to know is that between the Daily Service Charge and the 18% Auto Grat in the Specialty Restaurants and the 18% auto grat on drinks, you are covered. No need to think about tipping anyone unless you have a butler and concierge or use the kid's club. Just go and enjoy!:)

 

Exactly.

 

Pay whatever is on the receipt and don't worry.

[backsbanny]

Yes just pay all on the bill..if you open a 300usd bottle its sure that you must tip 54usd because itd too difficult to open this bottle..it needs hard work..i dont believe at all that this 18% goes to the crew...a very small portion of it might go but if all this money went to the crew then the bartenders would be rich at this time making more than the captain!!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[sparkinator]

The point was not that it couldn't be done, but it couldn't be done easily, as you demonstrated in your post, requiring a clocking in system and algorithms to evaluate what each employee is due.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow! That sounds complicated. If only there was something already available and in use.

 

http://www.fideliocruise.com/Products/Crew-Management-System

 

Welcome to the information age.

 

Crew Payroll management is designed to handle all components of earnings, including wages, overtime, bonuses, incentives and allowances, as well as storing deductions. Multiple payroll cycles and frequencies are supported. Temporary or permanent pay changes are tracked. Standardized pay scales and ranges are incorporated and seniority scale points are maintained.

[punkincc]

I understand the DSC covers more than restaurant servers as I indicated in the first portion of my post. In all honesty I sail only in suites when cruising with NCL and almost all of my breakfasts and lunches are eaten in the suite dining venues. So now when you factor in the additional DSC for suites and choosing to eat in suite only venues rather than the other complimentary restaurants then more of my DSC that is allocated for those complimentary restaurants is again not benefitting me.

 

I was told a long time ago that if I watched my nickles and dimes then my dollars would take care of themselves. I chose to take that advice to heart and now with retirement around the corner I am in a position to enjoy my hard earned relaxation. And as with most retirees I will still need to pay attention to those nickles and dimes Which equates to the fraction you mention that no one actually knows if it even goes to any of the employees at all. If everyone takes the attitude that it's only a fractional amount then all those nickles and dimes add up for the bottom line that NCL receives and they get to laugh all the way to the bank as they deposit our nickle and dimes because we don't know if NCL even gave its employees a pay or incentive increase with the new charges. NCL could very well just be shifting funds from one place to another.

 

No one should ever feel uncomfortable about questioning how they are spending their money before it is handed over to any business or individual. Truly legitimate businesses are transparent in their dealings with its customers. It's a shame that NCL in this case is not, especially since I love their product so much.

 

 

I like to watch my money too, which is why I don't throw away good money for a Beverage Package I know I might not even break even on. But you can drive yourself crazy over analyzing this whole thing. Ask yourself, if they had not upped the DSC for suite guests would you have even given a thought to where the DSC went and if you were truly getting full benefit from it?

 

When I go to a restaurant at home, do I worry that it didn't take my waiter any more effort to carry out my $50 steak than it did for him to carry out the $15 chicken at the next table, yet he will get a much bigger tip from me based on the total of the bills for the same amount of work? The bartender makes a martini for me and opens a beer for my husband. We tip a dollar for each drink. Fair for the bartender? These inequalities don't even cross our minds.

 

The only reason the pay of a NCL cruise ship worker is any of our business at all is that they have told us, basically, that a portion of the crew's wages comes from "incentive" programs that our Daily Service Charge supports and that there is no need to tip beyond this except for certain staff which are spelled out.

 

None of us have any way of knowing, nor does anyone know for the other lines that have DSC and 18% auto grats that the crews are getting what's due them. We just have to trust that they are doing what they say they are doing. The crews seem happy, so I am not going to drive myself crazy over this.

[insanemagnet]

Wow! That sounds complicated. If only there was something already available and in use.

 

http://www.fideliocruise.com/Products/Crew-Management-System

 

Welcome to the information age.

 

Yes, that sounds much easier than just telling a waiter in the MDR to pop over and help out in another restaurant for the remainder of their shift.

[CubsFanRS23]

Why does everyone even care so much? They include the DSC and auto gratuity. You're done. Want to give more? How generous of you! Worried NCL (and other cruise lines) aren't paying their people a fair wage? Write the company and start a movement. And offer to pay a lot more to make things "fair." Ask the people working on the ship if they'd rather be working there or something else back home for a fraction of the amount.

 

Of course they would like to make more - that's why they're even there, to make more than they could back home. Wouldn't you like to make more than you do now? I sure know I would.

 

#FirstWorldProblems

[sparkinator]

Yes, that sounds much easier than just telling a waiter in the MDR to pop over and help out in another restaurant for the remainder of their shift.

 

Norwegian is already is using it. Looks easy enough, and much more valuable and makes for a better prepared staff. You're running out of excuses as to why moving/tracking employees is doable/easy on a cruise ship. The tools/software to do so have been developed and are in place. All they have to do is query the data and pay them accordingly. Not even that, I'm sure someone just approves time and payroll takes care of the rest.

 

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/fideliocruise

 

Norwegian Getaway..another amazing ship launched and equipped with state-of-the-art Fidelio Cruise systems

'Want to know more about Norwegian Getaway? Tune in for the latest updates and share some of your favorite photos for a chance to see them re-posted! #UltimateGetaway'

 

[ChiCruzr]

Not to mention suite and Haven guests were raised to $14.95. that's not so paltry!

 

Has anyone heard or read about NCL's explanation for the difference between the regular DSC and the suite/Haven DSC?

 

All I could find on the NCL website was along the lines of "Suite guests enjoy the services of a butler and concierge." But the butler and concierge aren't included in the DSC pool.

 

What does the extra $2.00 per person per day go to?

[rvsullivan]

I've stayed out of the couple of thousand posts running on this topic up till now. If you tally up the number of posters on CC that are raising some much noise about all this, I don't think you could come up with 3 dozen. Of the tens of thousands of cruisers on NCL every week, we make up a small insignificant number. And of that an even smaller number are making noises about this.

My opinion, every server on every NCL ship places their orders on the computer, it knows where they are, what they're doing and how much money they are taking in. The computer can track everything. I, like some of the others here don't much care where the money goes or how it gets there. I want a happy crew! If they're happy, so am I. I didn't care how much of the DSC they got before all this, and don't much care how much they get now. If they are not getting enough to satisfy themselves, they will go to another cruise line.

Why this agitates some if beyond me. If your tight with your money, perhaps the few dollars a day this is costing more than before rules out cruising and some other options might be better. If NCL wants to raise more revenue and it costs me $1-20 more per day, I'm ok with that. If it's too much for some, try something different.

There are some posting here saying they are going to go to another line. Saying it and doing it are two different things. If you can find a better and cheaper deal elsewhere, why not go now, that would send a huge message to NCL if thousands do it. But guess what, no one has left yet.

All this talk and it hasn't changed a thing. NCL know exactly what they are doing. I'm staying with them!

[triptolemus]

Why this agitates some if beyond me. If your tight with your money, perhaps the few dollars a day this is costing more than before rules out cruising and some other options might be better. If NCL wants to raise more revenue and it costs me $1-20 more per day, I'm ok with that. If it's too much for some, try something different.

 

There are some posting here saying they are going to go to another line. Saying it and doing it are two different things. If you can find a better and cheaper deal elsewhere, why not go now, that would send a huge message to NCL if thousands do it. But guess what, no one has left yet.

 

All this talk and it hasn't changed a thing. NCL know exactly what they are doing. I'm staying with them!

 

What is beyond me is why some people cannot seem to grasp that this really isn't about the extra couple of dollars. It's more about the somewhat underhanded way NCL went about implementing the recent changes. As stated previously, a clear and simple explanation is all that was really needed. Instead, NCL chose to offer nothing more than a cryptic reply here, leaving some customers confused and upset.

 

And I would disagree with your second point. People are looking elsewhere, and people will compare product offerings, and some may decide that the FDR changes aren't something they care for and switch lines altogether. I pointed out in another thread that Princess, which home ports a ship or two about 20 minutes from me has some VERY compelling options for me.

 

For you to assert that nothing as changed and no one has booked another line is bizarre. I don't understand how you could know that.

Edited March 29, 2015 by triptolemus

[amyrene89]

So the ultimate drink package includes the tip? Sorry, i'm very new to this website and norwegian.