DCL with autism

[moki'smommy]

I cannot find the Autism Travel Group on line at all. I can find several other groups related to autism and travel, but nothing with this name.

[KarenR122]

I cannot find the Autism Travel Group on line at all. I can find several other groups related to autism and travel' date=' but nothing with this name.[/quote']

 

The name is not the Autism Travel Group. I was just being generic not stating the actual name of the group as I don't want to keep dragging their name into something that was never proven to be true. Since they still cruise with Disney, do land packages at Disney World and cruise with almost every other line, it just annoys me that people continue to bring up an incident that none of us have first hand knowledge about except a post from a member.

[moki'smommy]

There are several of us here who were around when the "alleged" incident happened and read lengthy posts from the parents of the 14 year old. Those posts, combined with the change in several DCL policies which occurred within 2 weeks of the end of that cruise cause me (and I suspect other long-timers) to believe that the parental posts were as accurate as any post written by an upset, involved parent could be. There was a single post supposedly from the owner of the travel agency involved which was later removed. It was not an inappropriate post in any way, again leading to speculation that it was removed at the posters request.

 

Nuff said. You are right that it was a single incident. Nothing can ever be "proven," except by those who were present, and DCL would not say anything about the policy changes other than that they were for legal reasons.

Edited June 12, 2015 by moki'smommy

[Texas4808]

Thanks :) I have talked to Autism on the Seas, we really are beyond what they offer at this point, and I think I knew more about Carnival than they did LOL I do think they offer a great service for new cruisers though. :)

 

Have you checked with Autism Adventure Travel? We have a large group every year with kids from all points on the spectrum. We have cruised with both agencies an AAT was better fit for us.

[Texas4808]

If this is the agency I'm thinking of' date=' I would advise caution.[/quote']

 

Seconded.

[Texas4808]

What I find sad is that they have taken what would have been a really great way for families to experience a vacation, and with their poor choices ruined their reputation with internet readers and the cruise line. It didn't have to end this way.

 

I personally spoke with the owner of the agency after I read that post to express concern. His position was that the woman was crazy and that it was old news. It was 2 months after the incident when we spoke......

 

That lack of legitimate concern was one of the reasons that they lost my group's business.

[Ex techie]

I personally spoke with the owner of the agency after I read that post to express concern. His position was that the woman was crazy and that it was old news. It was 2 months after the incident when we spoke......

 

That lack of legitimate concern was one of the reasons that they lost my group's business.

 

Well there you go KarenR122.

Someone who HAS spoken to the father and given his response to the incident.

Notice I said incident and not "alleged" incident as the father obviously did NOT DENY THIS HAPPENED.

 

ex techie

[moki'smommy]

Unfortunately, that response is in keeping with all other reported responses--it was always someone else's fault....never the fault or responsibility of the agency owner or his employee.

[KarenR122]

Well there you go KarenR122.

Someone who HAS spoken to the father and given his response to the incident.

Notice I said incident and not "alleged" incident as the father obviously did NOT DENY THIS HAPPENED.

 

ex techie

 

Listen, I never said that I did not believe the parents of the girl. Yes I was around when the incident was reported. All I am saying is that there are two sides to every story and the father of the boy says it did not happen the way it was portrayed. I do not know who was right or who was wrong but all I am asking and have been asking is that the group's name should not be tarnished because of one incident we do not have first hand knowledge of. Maybe the boys father should have been more diligent in supervising his son, Maybe the girls father did not understand some of the social deficits children with autism have and misunderstood. I and no one here knows what truly happened. The group in question serves a lot of special needs parents and I would hate to them not to book with them just because of something said on a message board. Every single time someone brings up autism this group gets bashed. I do not think that is fair. So we can agree to disagree.

[Ex techie]

Listen, I never said that I did not believe the parents of the girl. Yes I was around when the incident was reported. All I am saying is that there are two sides to every story and the father of the boy says it did not happen the way it was portrayed. I do not know who was right or who was wrong but all I am asking and have been asking is that the group's name should not be tarnished because of one incident we do not have first hand knowledge of. Maybe the boys father should have been more diligent in supervising his son, Maybe the girls father did not understand some of the social deficits children with autism have and misunderstood. I and no one here knows what truly happened. The group in question serves a lot of special needs parents and I would hate to them not to book with them just because of something said on a message board. Every single time someone brings up autism this group gets bashed. I do not think that is fair. So we can agree to disagree.

 

I never said that you did not believe the parents of the girl either.

Were you on that cruise when you say "you were around" or on the boards as in around?

 

I have to ask why you are so personally defensive of a private company?

Surely if you feel you have to defend the companies name so vigorously and defensively, the best approach would be for Dennis' Father to comment publicly about what he perceives happened?

This incident was quite a few years ago and yet Autism on the Seas also known as AOTS have not given or published any kind of official statement about what happened? Just to give their side of the story.

 

Doesn't that seem kind of strange to you? Also that Dennis is still a "staff member"?

Or maybe they (AOTS) (Autism On The Seas) would prefer this little incident to go away?

 

And yes, I have repetitively mentioned AOTS and Autism On The Seas so it will generate more Google hits for anyone reviewing who to cruise with.

 

ex techie

[moki'smommy]

Part of the purpose of the boards and the internet in general is to give feedback and evaluations of various groups/cruises/providers, etc. My daughter won't buy a small kitchen appliance without looking up reviews on line. How much more important it is to know as much as possible about an agency that you are entrusting with your vacation.

 

The policy changes that DCL instituted after this incident have impacted every family with children who use the programming. These were not small changes and were certainly not confined to special needs kids. They were instituted to protect children from the actions of legal adults while those children were in the care of DCL programming. NO organization is permitted to place "staff" members in the secure programming. If a child is participating in "open house" hours, their safety is clearly defined as the responsibility of a parent or guardian. Special needs kids have far less flexibility than previously as far as what age group will suit them best.

 

Frankly, I would want to know the track record of any group before I throw my money in their direction. If a google search turns up incidents that cause people to question actions, they are able to do further researching as to what/why/how things happened. Frankly, contacting the agency is a great way to do that research. Their answers will tell the potential client a great deal about the people involved.

 

I LOVE the travel agency I use, and I'm sorry that I can't give them plugs on these boards...but those are the rules I agree to in order to post here. I'm glad to be able to name some other providers of services (such as limo/shuttle/rental car companies, hotels, etc.) who have rendered good service. Ultimately, the company is responsible for the actions of their employees. This applies whether they are a "staff member" supposedly working with their teen clients on a ship or a mentally challenged young lady hired to refill drinks and wipe tables in a casual dining establishment. And if there is a complaint or concern about an employee, not only the action, but how it is handled reflects directly on the employer. Decent handling of this episode and the employer accepting responsibility for the actions of his employee could have provided a totally different outcome and very different press on the boards. Unfortunately, per the reports of those involved, that is not what happened.

 

While this agency is still able to sell DCL cruises, they are no longer able to have their special staff working alongside DCL employees in the kid programming.

 

Part of the problem is that the "father of the boy" is also the employer of the young man. And he was NOT a boy--he was legally of age and wearing a staff shirt when the various actions took place. The responsibilities of the father of a mentally or socially handicapped son are very different from that of an employer of that same individual. And you can't have it both ways--either he IS competent to function as an employee apart from direct supervision or he is not responsible for his actions due to his handicap. (in which case supervision is needed).

[Ex techie]

Part of the purpose of the boards and the internet in general is to give feedback and evaluations of various groups/cruises/providers' date=' etc. My daughter won't buy a small kitchen appliance without looking up reviews on line. How much more important it is to know as much as possible about an agency that you are entrusting with your vacation.

 

The policy changes that DCL instituted after this incident have impacted every family with children who use the programming. These were not small changes and were certainly not confined to special needs kids. They were instituted to protect children from the actions of legal adults while those children were in the care of DCL programming. NO organization is permitted to place "staff" members in the secure programming. If a child is participating in "open house" hours, their safety is clearly defined as the responsibility of a parent or guardian. Special needs kids have far less flexibility than previously as far as what age group will suit them best.

 

Frankly, I would want to know the track record of any group before I throw my money in their direction. If a google search turns up incidents that cause people to question actions, they are able to do further researching as to what/why/how things happened. Frankly, contacting the agency is a great way to do that research. Their answers will tell the potential client a great deal about the people involved.

 

I LOVE the travel agency I use, and I'm sorry that I can't give them plugs on these boards...but those are the rules I agree to in order to post here. I'm glad to be able to name some other providers of services (such as limo/shuttle/rental car companies, hotels, etc.) who have rendered good service. Ultimately, the company is responsible for the actions of their employees. This applies whether they are a "staff member" supposedly working with their teen clients on a ship or a mentally challenged young lady hired to refill drinks and wipe tables in a casual dining establishment. And if there is a complaint or concern about an employee, not only the action, but how it is handled reflects directly on the employer. Decent handling of this episode and the employer accepting responsibility for the actions of his employee could have provided a totally different outcome and very different press on the boards. Unfortunately, per the reports of those involved, that is not what happened.

 

[b']While this agency is still able to sell DCL cruises, they are no longer able to have their special staff working alongside DCL employees in the kid programming.

 

Part of the problem is that the "father of the boy" is also the employer of the young man. And he was NOT a boy--he was legally of age and wearing a staff shirt when the various actions took place. The responsibilities of the father of a mentally or socially handicapped son are very different from that of an employer of that same individual. And you can't have it both ways--either he IS competent to function as an employee apart from direct supervision or he is not responsible for his actions due to his handicap. (in which case supervision is needed).[/b]

 

Well Said!

 

ex techie

[KarenR122]

I never said that you did not believe the parents of the girl either.

Were you on that cruise when you say "you were around" or on the boards as in around?

 

I have to ask why you are so personally defensive of a private company?

Surely if you feel you have to defend the companies name so vigorously and defensively, the best approach would be for Dennis' Father to comment publicly about what he perceives happened?

This incident was quite a few years ago and yet Autism on the Seas also known as AOTS have not given or published any kind of official statement about what happened? Just to give their side of the story.

 

Doesn't that seem kind of strange to you? Also that Dennis is still a "staff member"?

Or maybe they (AOTS) (Autism On The Seas) would prefer this little incident to go away?

 

And yes, I have repetitively mentioned AOTS and Autism On The Seas so it will generate more Google hits for anyone reviewing who to cruise with.

 

ex techie

 

I mentioned that I was "around" when the story broke because someone mentioned in a previous post about the first reporting of the incident. I was reading the boards at that time and recall the initial post.

 

I have absolutely no ties to this company and I personally have not used them but I have sailed on cruises while they were working and I know a bunch of families that have used them. I am not defending the company because I can't as I was not there and can not say what happened. The reason I get defensive about the constant bashing is only because I know first hand how hard it is to travel with a disabled child and this company, as well as others, help families enjoy a much needed vacation. I know what a great job they do with the families that they are with because I have spoken to quite a few who have used the services.

 

As far as the changes Disney made, I am well aware of them. I actually agree that no adult should be in the children's clubs unless they were personally vetted by Disney themselves. I think that after they incident that happened, Disney realized that they are liable and having unvetted adults in a secured area is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Just because they changed the rules does not mean the situation with the girl was proven true. It just showed a flaw in the services Disney was allowing the group to do and they corrected it.

 

We are not going to agree on any of this so I am not going to comment any more.

[Texas4808]

Part of the purpose of the boards and the internet in general is to give feedback and evaluations of various groups/cruises/providers' date=' etc. My daughter won't buy a small kitchen appliance without looking up reviews on line. How much more important it is to know as much as possible about an agency that you are entrusting with your vacation.

 

The policy changes that DCL instituted after this incident have impacted every family with children who use the programming. These were not small changes and were certainly not confined to special needs kids. They were instituted to protect children from the actions of legal adults while those children were in the care of DCL programming. NO organization is permitted to place "staff" members in the secure programming. If a child is participating in "open house" hours, their safety is clearly defined as the responsibility of a parent or guardian. Special needs kids have far less flexibility than previously as far as what age group will suit them best.

 

Frankly, I would want to know the track record of any group before I throw my money in their direction. If a google search turns up incidents that cause people to question actions, they are able to do further researching as to what/why/how things happened. Frankly, contacting the agency is a great way to do that research. Their answers will tell the potential client a great deal about the people involved.

 

I LOVE the travel agency I use, and I'm sorry that I can't give them plugs on these boards...but those are the rules I agree to in order to post here. I'm glad to be able to name some other providers of services (such as limo/shuttle/rental car companies, hotels, etc.) who have rendered good service. Ultimately, the company is responsible for the actions of their employees. This applies whether they are a "staff member" supposedly working with their teen clients on a ship or a mentally challenged young lady hired to refill drinks and wipe tables in a casual dining establishment. And if there is a complaint or concern about an employee, not only the action, but how it is handled reflects directly on the employer. Decent handling of this episode and the employer accepting responsibility for the actions of his employee could have provided a totally different outcome and very different press on the boards. Unfortunately, per the reports of those involved, that is not what happened.

 

While this agency is still able to sell DCL cruises, they are no longer able to have their special staff working alongside DCL employees in the kid programming.

 

Part of the problem is that the "father of the boy" is also the employer of the young man. And he was NOT a boy--he was legally of age and wearing a staff shirt when the various actions took place. The responsibilities of the father of a mentally or socially handicapped son are very different from that of an employer of that same individual. And you can't have it both ways--either he IS competent to function as an employee apart from direct supervision or he is not responsible for his actions due to his handicap. (in which case supervision is needed).[/quote']

The last paragraph is exactly what I told the owner on the phone. The owner is not the father of the boy. The boy and his father no longer work for the travel agency. The owner no longer needed their services when he left his day job and did cruising full time. They were not let go over the incident, it was strictly a business decision by the owner to make cruising his primary source of income. As the owner of the business, it was his prerogative to make that decision.

[Texas4808]

I mentioned that I was "around" when the story broke because someone mentioned in a previous post about the first reporting of the incident. I was reading the boards at that time and recall the initial post.

 

I have absolutely no ties to this company and I personally have not used them but I have sailed on cruises while they were working and I know a bunch of families that have used them. I am not defending the company because I can't as I was not there and can not say what happened. The reason I get defensive about the constant bashing is only because I know first hand how hard it is to travel with a disabled child and this company, as well as others, help families enjoy a much needed vacation. I know what a great job they do with the families that they are with because I have spoken to quite a few who have used the services.

 

As far as the changes Disney made, I am well aware of them. I actually agree that no adult should be in the children's clubs unless they were personally vetted by Disney themselves. I think that after they incident that happened, Disney realized that they are liable and having unvetted adults in a secured area is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Just because they changed the rules does not mean the situation with the girl was proven true. It just showed a flaw in the services Disney was allowing the group to do and they corrected it.

 

We are not going to agree on any of this so I am not going to comment any more.

 

You kinda glossed over how bad an idea it is to have an Autistic kid looking over other Autistic kids.....

[Ex techie]

I mentioned that I was "around" when the story broke because someone mentioned in a previous post about the first reporting of the incident. I was reading the boards at that time and recall the initial post.

 

I have absolutely no ties to this company and I personally have not used them but I have sailed on cruises while they were working and I know a bunch of families that have used them. I am not defending the company because I can't as I was not there and can not say what happened. The reason I get defensive about the constant bashing is only because I know first hand how hard it is to travel with a disabled child and this company, as well as others, help families enjoy a much needed vacation. I know what a great job they do with the families that they are with because I have spoken to quite a few who have used the services.

 

As far as the changes Disney made, I am well aware of them. I actually agree that no adult should be in the children's clubs unless they were personally vetted by Disney themselves. I think that after they incident that happened, Disney realized that they are liable and having unvetted adults in a secured area is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Just because they changed the rules does not mean the situation with the girl was proven true. It just showed a flaw in the services Disney was allowing the group to do and they corrected it.

 

We are not going to agree on any of this so I am not going to comment any more.

 

Very odd in my opinion that you would decide to defend a company that you have no personal experience with, but only reviews/here-say, but yet when the tables are turned everyone else is wrong?

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

The last paragraph is exactly what I told the owner on the phone. The owner is not the father of the boy. The boy and his father no longer work for the travel agency. The owner no longer needed their services when he left his day job and did cruising full time. They were not let go over the incident, it was strictly a business decision by the owner to make cruising his primary source of income. As the owner of the business, it was his prerogative to make that decision.

 

Either their website is outdated or it still shows Jamie Grover (Father to Dennis) as a "Special Consultant"

 

http://www.autismontheseas.com/about-us/advisory-team

 

Special Consultant

 

Jamie Grover, Founder & Executive Director of S.N.A.P.

Jamie worked for the University Center for Developmental Disabilities at California State University - San Bernardino for 12 years and was the programs Project Coordinator and Editor of the centers quarterly publication. Jamie has written and published many articles relating to the needs of children on the spectrum and their families. Jamie was also a parent group counselor and taught a variety of workshops including positive parenting techniques, parent communication and wellness, and IEP planning & strategies, ect. Jamie also served as the West Coast Representative for the North Star Foundation, an organization which pairs children with autism and other developmental disabilities to quality trained assistance dogs.

Jamie founded Special Needs Ability Program, Inc., (S.N.A.P.) and is currently their Executive Director. S.N.A.P. provides opportunities to the special needs communities around the country that are not always funded through Local, State & Federal programs, including Community Resource Education, Workability Programs, Respite Care, and Recreational Opportunities. The inspiration for S.N.A.P. was derived from Jamie's adopted son Dennis, who has special needs. Visit their Website.

Jamie was extremely instrumental in the development of many of the Autism on the Seas services, as he was the AotS Group Director from 2008 until 2013. Jamie's passion and unending devotion to serving the AotS families helped pioneer what AotS is today.

 

ex techie

[moki'smommy]

I apologize for the incorrect information and stand corrected that the named individual was not the OWNER of the agency, but only the GROUP DIRECTOR and senior member of the organization on board DCL at the time the incident occurred.

[KarenR122]

Very odd in my opinion that you would decide to defend a company that you have no personal experience with, but only reviews/here-say, but yet when the tables are turned everyone else is wrong?

 

ex techie

 

Well I find it odd that you keep harping on every single word I say. My information is not here-say. It is directly from people who have used the service that are my friends. Real life friends that I interact with daily. You are bashing the company on here-say relying on a post from a person you do not know. I have never said that anyone was wrong. Not one of us on this thread were involved and were there and like I said multiple times I am not defending or saying what was told was untrue, I'm just saying that I do not think it is fair to bash a company based on here-say which is exactly what is happening.

 

And to answer another question from a different poster....I am not glossing over the issue of a person with autism overseeing children with autism. I have no problem with it at all as long as the person is capable. I also fully agree with peer led groups and I feel it helps children with autism to have role models who are also autistic. Before everyone jumps all over that, this is my general opinion on the matter and has nothing to with the man/boy this issue is about. I do not know him and can not say if he was capable or not to lead a group.

[lucigo]

Did your son like DCLs chicken nuggets?

 

No, and we have yet to find any that he will eat other than Walmart Deli and McDonalds. He ate cheese and bread sandwiches on the cruise.

[Texas4808]

Well I find it odd that you keep harping on every single word I say. My information is not here-say. It is directly from people who have used the service that are my friends. Real life friends that I interact with daily. You are bashing the company on here-say relying on a post from a person you do not know. I have never said that anyone was wrong. Not one of us on this thread were involved and were there and like I said multiple times I am not defending or saying what was told was untrue, I'm just saying that I do not think it is fair to bash a company based on here-say which is exactly what is happening.

 

And to answer another question from a different poster....I am not glossing over the issue of a person with autism overseeing children with autism. I have no problem with it at all as long as the person is capable. I also fully agree with peer led groups and I feel it helps children with autism to have role models who are also autistic. Before everyone jumps all over that, this is my general opinion on the matter and has nothing to with the man/boy this issue is about. I do not know him and can not say if he was capable or not to lead a group.

 

The boy and his father have moved on and are doing some good things. God bless both of them. To me, a person who has had multiple first hand experiences with the owner, it has always been about how the owner handles things.

 

With this incident, the owner chose not to make a public response and therefore put himself in the predicament of having 1 side of the story out there for the public to form an opinion on. No one should feel bad for him now or defend someone who won't defend himself. It's paramount that we are able to trust this man's judgment when his company is caring for our special needs children. Silence says a lot....

 

There are other controversial incidents that he chose not to respond to. Some were appropriate for him not to comment on and others not so appropriate to not comment on.

 

I actually like the owner from personal standpoint. I was his single largest customer having booked over 75 reservations with his company I just couldn't trust his word or judgment any longer. I know him as well as any of his customers.