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Cutbacks and Steward barging in unannounced!


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Reading some of these posts reminds me of something I read here on Cruise Critic entitled "Carnival Conquest, Doublewide of the Seas" in which they refer the the ship as the "Carnival Conquest by Palm Harbor Homes" LOL ! I guess there are times when you go to Wal Mart, times when you go to Nordstroms, and times when you go to JC Penny's. The rule of supply and demand will depend a company's success and the demographics of its patrons.. Such is life !

 

I agree The Conquest is the worst class of ships. I have had sub bar cruises on them. .. Kitty (love your screen name) You are a very rare you actually did something a lot of people don't do.. You admitted you forgot a few things cause you were happy to be on vacation. We have all done that and hats off to you for admitting it.

Your aces in my book.

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Well a lot of thoughts and feeling here.

 

PEOPLE we all have one thing in common we like to cruise and vacation. Lets remember that.

 

Cutbacks are across the board on all lines. I have sailed with carnival for a lot of years (look at the history) Carnival has made a lot of money off of me and yes I have stock. My reason for sticking with carnival was because of price, We could go on a 4 day cruise for 300.00 in the fall. Where else can you get a room and all your meals for that price

 

I have seen the cutbacks and we just learn to adjust and adapt to them

 

In my eyes cruises are still the best bang for the buck .

 

I am a diamond with carnival and the PERKS are not that great..

I have begun to explore other lines cause the over all package when you get to the higher perks is better.

 

Remember a bad day on a cruise is better than a good day at work. Happy sailing. Feel free to call me a CHEERLEADER and beat up my post because I also have a large supply of popcorn

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Just a few things..

First of all, I wish I could "like" posts, especially the one about standing there naked ! Trust me, I am no spring chicken ! I was cruising with my 8 year old grand daughter & we would hear the little ding-dongs when they were making announcements and she would open the door so we could hear what they were saying, then let it close. For the most part I was able to use the dead bolt; but I agree it is all my fault that I didn't lock the dead bolt each and every time the door opened. I didn't even think about using door sign, again, all my fault. Platinum line ? Silly me I completely forgot I could do that ! Yes I just did make platinum.. I was more excited about the laundry than anything else. Yes it is all my fault and also shame on me for commenting about noticing tablecloths were no longer used in the dining room. My fault again. How could I be so silly to even think I could actually put an observation on a message board, that was not complimenting Carnival.. again, MY BAD ! I hope all of you Carnival Cheerleaders can please find it in your hearts to forgive me. I am so sorry I posted something about Carnival when actually everything is all my fault, I did not mean to create so much negativity nor hostility.

LOVE the subtle sarcasm! See post 52 in this thread for my response to many of the comments on here. Your original comment was fine and does not need any "forgiving"... it was a comment on your cruise and with the events that happened. A cabin steward way out of line and tablecloths gone... Again, great "dig" above, love it!

Edited by bobsfamily
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Jdfireman: carnival is t always that inexpensive. I just paid almost $900 for a 3 day cruise to Ensenada in a simple ocean view cabin so they aren't always cheap. That same cruise I used to have 2 cabins with my two kids so double the people and double the cabins so it isn't as cheap as it once was before they started taking those things away. It is more expensive and we are getting less so I have a right to my opinion and why I have been cruising other lines. More bang for my buck.

 

 

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Jdfireman: carnival is t always that inexpensive. I just paid almost $900 for a 3 day cruise to Ensenada in a simple ocean view cabin so they aren't always cheap. That same cruise I used to have 2 cabins with my two kids so double the people and double the cabins so it isn't as cheap as it once was before they started taking those things away. It is more expensive and we are getting less so I have a right to my opinion and why I have been cruising other lines. More bang for my buck.

 

 

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I have tried looking up other cruise lines. 1st of all, we can only cruise when my husband's vacation time is due. And we only want to leave from Galveston. The extra for airfare does not seem to be worth it as mostly same ports are offered. I always book at least 11 months ahead of time. Only balcony, only on the Lido. Our next one is $1440. for 2 for 7 days. Of course, that is before taxes, etc, but sure you get my drift. I am 1/2 way there and I do early saver as have gotten over $900. OBC, but not in the last 3 years, and nothing on this one. But, feel I got the best rate, as now, it is over $100. more for an inside, lowest category. You certainly have a right to your own opinion. I truly wish we could try other options, but, just aren't available in our time frame. Though I must admit Disney would have been an option for us at one time, but, sounds like it would be for people with children. Ours are grown. Best bang for the buck is my frame of mind, too. In fact I check every year for all inclusive vacations, as would like to do something different, but always end up back on a cruise as it has worked out less expensive. :cool:

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So true ! A bad day on a cruise is better than a good day at work !!!

 

Not true for all of us. A bad day on a cruise would be much worse than a good day at work for me. In fact, a bad day on a cruise could conceivably be worse than a mediocre day at work for me. I realize I'm probably in the minority on this.:)

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Not true for all of us. A bad day on a cruise would be much worse than a good day at work for me. In fact, a bad day on a cruise could conceivably be worse than a mediocre day at work for me. I realize I'm probably in the minority on this.:)

 

Not necessarily, I make light of the cruise we took that my husband had a slip and fall beside the water slide. 1st day of cruise. $40K later for surgery, and 3 months not being able to work and living off our savings-Hummm, not such a great cruise. So, as you said, a bad day on a cruise......You are the 1st person that I have seen that has been honest about this. Yet, we do continue to cruise, knock wood, hope never have one that bad again!:)

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Not necessarily, I make light of the cruise we took that my husband had a slip and fall beside the water slide. 1st day of cruise. $40K later for surgery, and 3 months not being able to work and living off our savings-Hummm, not such a great cruise. So, as you said, a bad day on a cruise......You are the 1st person that I have seen that has been honest about this. Yet, we do continue to cruise, knock wood, hope never have one that bad again!:)

 

Oucchhh! That sounds really bad. I'm sorry that happened to your DH and you.:(

 

I don't think others are necessarily being dishonest when they say "A bad day on a cruise....". I think it's their truth. I just chalk it up to different people feel differently about their lives, jobs, and vacations. I am blessed, I know it.:o There are people that have lives much less pleasant and much more stressful than mine, and they might take vacations to escape the stress of their lives for a little while. I take vacations to experience a kind of joy that is different from my everyday kind of joy.

 

My life hasn't always been this great, I have had rough times, and lived hand-to-mouth, and had very hard, stressful jobs. Thankfully, I am in a much better place in my life now. I know this all sounds a little corny, I'm sorry.:o

 

I think it's also this love I have for my "normal" life that also makes me want more out of a cruise than some others require - those that say "As long as I'm on a ship, it's all good" and "As long as I don't have to cook it, serve it, or clean up after it, I don't care what my dinner on the cruise is like, or how it's served to me" and so on. Because I don't need a vacation from my life, I want my vacations to be very enjoyable.:)

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Jdfireman: carnival is t always that inexpensive. I just paid almost $900 for a 3 day cruise to Ensenada in a simple ocean view cabin so they aren't always cheap. That same cruise I used to have 2 cabins with my two kids so double the people and double the cabins so it isn't as cheap as it once was before they started taking those things away. It is more expensive and we are getting less so I have a right to my opinion and why I have been cruising other lines. More bang for my buck.

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Carnival has virtually no competition on the West Coast, especially on short cruises, which is why the prices have gone up. Princess has a few short cruises out of San Pedro (Carnival is still slightly cheaper). NCL does 7 day cruises only. HAL sails 7 day cruises out of San Diego.

 

We take advantage of casino offers when we can, which helps.

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Carnival has virtually no competition on the West Coast, especially on short cruises, which is why the prices have gone up. Princess has a few short cruises out of San Pedro (Carnival is still slightly cheaper). NCL does 7 day cruises only. HAL sails 7 day cruises out of San Diego.

 

We take advantage of casino offers when we can, which helps.

 

 

Princess did 3/4 day cruises out of LA couple of years ago. The days of the week were odd. Something like 3day cruises M-Th, 4day cruises Th-M. Princess could barely give them away. They were offering the whole cruise fare as payment towards future longer cruises.

 

 

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Oucchhh! That sounds really bad. I'm sorry that happened to your DH and you.:(

 

I don't think others are necessarily being dishonest when they say "A bad day on a cruise....". I think it's their truth. I just chalk it up to different people feel differently about their lives, jobs, and vacations. I am blessed, I know it.:o There are people that have lives much less pleasant and much more stressful than mine, and they might take vacations to escape the stress of their lives for a little while. I take vacations to experience a kind of joy that is different from my everyday kind of joy.

 

My life hasn't always been this great, I have had rough times, and lived hand-to-mouth, and had very hard, stressful jobs. Thankfully, I am in a much better place in my life now. I know this all sounds a little corny, I'm sorry.:o

 

I think it's also this love I have for my "normal" life that also makes me want more out of a cruise than some others require - those that say "As long as I'm on a ship, it's all good" and "As long as I don't have to cook it, serve it, or clean up after it, I don't care what my dinner on the cruise is like, or how it's served to me" and so on. Because I don't need a vacation from my life, I want my vacations to be very enjoyable.:)

 

I agree with you on this on so many levels. Hopefully, you and I will both have very enjoyable vacations from now on. I, as you said, don't need one from my life. Just truly, expect one to be pleasant and truly enjoy it. The last time we went to Vegas, the plane messed up my sinuses so bad. We were there for 6 nights. The 1st night I was so miserable, I kept thinking, are you kidding me? I have 5 more nights of this? Never let on to my husband how bad I felt, and thankfully it passed. Just an example of how vacations can turn out not how we expect it. I am really not that hard to please. Just sitting on my balcony, reading a book and watching the water is a thrill to me. I don't have time to read as much as I would like to at home, so it is really a treat. May you have many happy cruise, oh mother of the china doll.:)

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I do not think many on this thread have said it ruins heir vacation at all....in fact more the opposite. Most have simply said a preference and noted it as a "downsizing" move..or noted it made no difference and enjoyed looking at it as a perhaps a generational thing...:).

Exactly, You hit the nail on the head !!

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I agree with you on this on so many levels. Hopefully, you and I will both have very enjoyable vacations from now on. I, as you said, don't need one from my life. Just truly, expect one to be pleasant and truly enjoy it. The last time we went to Vegas, the plane messed up my sinuses so bad. We were there for 6 nights. The 1st night I was so miserable, I kept thinking, are you kidding me? I have 5 more nights of this? Never let on to my husband how bad I felt, and thankfully it passed. Just an example of how vacations can turn out not how we expect it. I am really not that hard to please. Just sitting on my balcony, reading a book and watching the water is a thrill to me. I don't have time to read as much as I would like to at home, so it is really a treat. May you have many happy cruise, oh mother of the china doll.:)

 

Aw, thanks.:o All the best cruises to you, too.:)

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Not true for all of us. A bad day on a cruise would be much worse than a good day at work for me. In fact, a bad day on a cruise could conceivably be worse than a mediocre day at work for me. I realize I'm probably in the minority on this.:)
Actually is was said in jest, truth be told, I miss my coworkers. We are like family. wherever I am at work I joke a lot and keep everyone laughing in what is otherwise considered a very stressful job. I always get comments when I get back about how quiet and boring it was without me :D
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I have tried looking up other cruise lines. 1st of all, we can only cruise when my husband's vacation time is due. And we only want to leave from Galveston. The extra for airfare does not seem to be worth it as mostly same ports are offered. I always book at least 11 months ahead of time. Only balcony, only on the Lido. Our next one is $1440. for 2 for 7 days. Of course, that is before taxes, etc, but sure you get my drift. I am 1/2 way there and I do early saver as have gotten over $900. OBC, but not in the last 3 years, and nothing on this one. But, feel I got the best rate, as now, it is over $100. more for an inside, lowest category. You certainly have a right to your own opinion. I truly wish we could try other options, but, just aren't available in our time frame. Though I must admit Disney would have been an option for us at one time, but, sounds like it would be for people with children. Ours are grown. Best bang for the buck is my frame of mind, too. In fact I check every year for all inclusive vacations, as would like to do something different, but always end up back on a cruise as it has worked out less expensive. :cool:
I am with you on a lot of things ! I also am mostly confined as well by school vacations, in which the prices nearly double ! I also love the Lido as it cuts down on all the "elevator time." I also have been only cruising from Galveston. I can usually get there in 5 hours. Right now RCI has a 30% sale that makes the pricing very competitive. I guess you just have to look around for sales. I really hate that everything gets so expensive when kids are out of school. As far as Disney, everything I wouldconsider STARTS @ 1500.00, and that's for ONE PERSON !
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I am with you on a lot of things ! I also am mostly confined as well by school vacations, in which the prices nearly double ! I also love the Lido as it cuts down on all the "elevator time." I also have been only cruising from Galveston. I can usually get there in 5 hours. Right now RCI has a 30% sale that makes the pricing very competitive. I guess you just have to look around for sales. I really hate that everything gets so expensive when kids are out of school. As far as Disney, everything I wouldconsider STARTS @ 1500.00, and that's for ONE PERSON !

 

Okay, since you understand my loving the Lido deck, you will understand that when I have looked up cruises on some other lines, that sometimes the Lido deck doesn't have rooms. Would not be a deal breaker for some. We, personally, have booked the exact same balcony room on the Lido, on Magic, 3 cruises. I love to grab a meal, snack, drink, etc... and my room is just steps away. I am spoiled to it and find it hard to consider any other deck. In fact my parents, recently had to cancel a cruise and I could have gone for just the $50. they would charge for the name change. Did not even consider it as it was not where I wanted to be. I usually book about 11 months ahead so I can pick just where I want, plus be able to get FTTF. We lived in Florida before moving back to Texas 2002, 50 miles from the Disney parks. Loved them! But, would I want to hear. "It's a small world" for 7 days. NOT! Plus, as you said, Very expensive!

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I am with you on a lot of things ! I also am mostly confined as well by school vacations, in which the prices nearly double ! I also love the Lido as it cuts down on all the "elevator time." I also have been only cruising from Galveston. I can usually get there in 5 hours. Right now RCI has a 30% sale that makes the pricing very competitive. I guess you just have to look around for sales. I really hate that everything gets so expensive when kids are out of school. As far as Disney, everything I wouldconsider STARTS @ 1500.00, and that's for ONE PERSON !

 

Since you mentioned the elevator time issue, I'll propose some food for thought, not that I insist that you change your mind to my way of thinking. I totally love staying down on the low decks, because of cutting down on overall elevator time. The question would be: when you stay on lido deck, when do you need elevators? For going to/from the dining room, going to/from entertainment, getting off/on the ship when in port, & debarkation. Provided, of course, that you do those things. Those are the times that the elevators are totally slammed, and you might have very long waits when coming from/going to the lido deck. Meanwhile, people like me who are staying on deck 2 just take 1-2 flights of stairs, and we're where we want to be in seconds. For me, to get to lido deck, I do indeed take the elevators. However, there is hardly ever any wait for elevators at those times, because the crowds are very scattered for going to & coming from the lido deck when deck 2 people need them. I only need elevators from about 8am-5pm (sea days), & maybe after 10pm. Never much wait at those times. I should mention that I'm not needing to go back & forth to my room 30 times during that 8-5 timeframe. I go back 1 or 2 times during that time.

 

Again, just food for thought. I despise spending tons of time on elevators, which is the exact reason that I totally love deck 2. I have stayed up around lido deck twice before, & deck 1 or 2 seven times (including my last 4), so I have had experience with both. I found that the convenience of being up high wasn't as good as the convenience of deck 2. Just simply my opinion, not shared by all. (One more note about deck 2--I never stay below the noisy galley/kitchen; below the dining room is perfect.)

Edited by k2excursion
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Since you mentioned the elevator time issue, I'll propose some food for thought, not that I insist that you change your mind to my way of thinking. I totally love staying down on the low decks, because of cutting down on overall elevator time. The question would be: when you stay on lido deck, when do you need elevators? For going to/from the dining room, going to/from entertainment, getting off/on the ship when in port, & debarkation. Provided, of course, that you do those things. Those are the times that the elevators are totally slammed, and you might have very long waits when coming from/going to the lido deck. Meanwhile, people like me who are staying on deck 2 just take 1-2 flights of stairs, and we're where we want to be in seconds. For me, to get to lido deck, I do indeed take the elevators. However, there is hardly ever any wait for elevators at those times, because the crowds are very scattered for going to & coming from the lido deck when deck 2 people need them. I only need elevators from about 8am-5pm (sea days), & maybe after 10pm. Never much wait at those times. I should mention that I'm not needing to go back & forth to my room 30 times during that 8-5 timeframe. I go back 1 or 2 times during that time.

 

Again, just food for thought. I despise spending tons of time on elevators, which is the exact reason that I totally love deck 2. I have stayed up around lido deck twice before, & deck 1 or 2 seven times (including my last 4), so I have had experience with both. I found that the convenience of being up high wasn't as good as the convenience of deck 2. Just simply my opinion, not shared by all. (One more note about deck 2--I never stay below the noisy galley/kitchen; below the dining room is perfect.)

 

I can see where you are coming from. When I responded to HelloKitty I did not mention elevators, also I do realize that your post is to her and not me. I like Lido as to get to the room easily, without having to use an elevator. As my hands are always full. Other decks we go to, we take the stairs, to try to work off some of that food we are just walking steps to pick up, from our balcony room.:eek:

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I can see where you are coming from. When I responded to HelloKitty I did not mention elevators, also I do realize that your post is to her and not me. I like Lido as to get to the room easily, without having to use an elevator. As my hands are always full. Other decks we go to, we take the stairs, to try to work off some of that food we are just walking steps to pick up, from our balcony room.:eek:

 

True. And also, if you want a balcony, only Dream class & Vista have balconies on deck 2. I'm happy with interiors/portholes/OVs. I stayed on deck 7 on the Valor, and basically used the stairs for everything, except for getting off/on the ship. I enjoyed that spot too. 1-2 flights of stairs feels like nothing to me.

Edited by k2excursion
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I am with you on a lot of things ! I also am mostly confined as well by school vacations, in which the prices nearly double ! I also love the Lido as it cuts down on all the "elevator time." I also have been only cruising from Galveston. I can usually get there in 5 hours. Right now RCI has a 30% sale that makes the pricing very competitive. I guess you just have to look around for sales. I really hate that everything gets so expensive when kids are out of school. As far as Disney, everything I wouldconsider STARTS @ 1500.00, and that's for ONE PERSON !

 

We are platinum on Disney and are about to embark on our first Carnival cruise. The reason we booked Carnival was the itinerary on the Vista in Europe. Disney was only offering 7 day med cruises. They did have one 12 day, but the price was outrageous, and it hasn't sold. We homeschool so we are able to take offseason cruises and book last minute. They do have off season discounts especially out of Galveston. I have absolutely loved every Disney cruise and I will continue to sail on them despite the price. Contrary to what people think they do have a great adult area. If your looking for a party cruise Disney is not the cruise for you, but it's a great family environment with a great staff. They do not play "It's a small world"for 7 days straight like one poster said. They do play the same music you would hear on any top 40 music station. Your not going to see fights or drunken belligerent people on a Disney cruise. At least I never have. I'm sure there is the rate occasion. I'm really nervous about trying Carnival. It doesn't have the best reputation. I going in with an open mind. The Vista looks beautiful and fun. I hope my kids enjoy, but I think I have set the bar pretty high by starting them off on DCL.

 

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this post because this seems to be the nature of the Carnival boards which is another reason I'm getting nervous about this cruise.

Edited by sm3ds
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We are platinum on Disney and are about to embark on our first Carnival cruise. The reason we booked Carnival was the itinerary on the Vista in Europe. Disney was only offering 7 day med cruises. They did have one 12 day, but the price was outrageous, and it hasn't sold. We homeschool so we are able to take offseason cruises and book last minute. They do have off season discounts especially out of Galveston. I have absolutely loved every Disney cruise and I will continue to sail on them despite the price. Contrary to what people think they do have a great adult area. If your looking for a party cruise Disney is not the cruise for you, but it's a great family environment with a great staff. They do not play "It's a small world"for 7 days straight like one poster said. They do play the same music you would hear on any top 40 music station. Your not going to see fights or drunken belligerent people on a Disney cruise. At least I never have. I'm sure there is the rate occasion. I'm really nervous about trying Carnival. It doesn't have the best reputation. I going in with an open mind. The Vista looks beautiful and fun. I hope my kids enjoy, but I think I have set the bar pretty high by starting them off on DCL.

 

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this post because this seems to be the nature of the Carnival boards which is another reason I'm getting nervous about this cruise.

 

Remember 2 things....1)these boards are the smallest percentage of cruisers on each line. And 2) an even smaller percentage are folks that have or exhibit problems to degree you see here....a small group in a small group.

 

I am so very happy my mothers last good days were on a Disney Cruise with their last 12 year old grandchild to do a special trip with...she only had 2 cruises in her life and what a great one for that...and they had adult time too...perfect cabin set up for one child etc.

 

Most of the people will be just like you on this ship; traveling different lines for the same reason you do, they will be putting their best foot forward on it and so will Carnival..making a budget choice be great on this kind of cruise..Budget conscious...but NOT a trashy choice...even with the "cutbacks" and differing opinions here.

 

Also some things change to better because of here and I would not worry...especially on this kind of longer special cruise. Ask about 2 times daily service if you want and this kind of situation go to guest services/security pronto ...this is very rare but just life and much more often a game play deal mostly with single women or women traveling alone and most snoopers not truly dangerous people, just checking their options pathetically, that dangerous group also is a small group within a group.....just a bad fact....to be aware of but not worry about. And not immune to this on any level of ship or travel...no matter what the star level.

 

Prayers for a fabulous cruise on the new Vista...it will be wonderful on a trip that is maybe a bit more about the ports that the ship...and still a new family oriented ship.

Edited by sjn911
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Well just off the Magic last week and noticed no more tablecloths were used in the main dining rooms except for the 2 formal nights ! Call it "first world problems" but it felt like I was in a Cheddars or a Chilis. Also the steward walked into our cabin unannounced at least 5 times; I had been changing, sleeping, watching TV or in the restroom. I tried to use the lock every time but whenever I didn't, it never failed, he would walk in... WTH ! Who knows how many times he tried when the door was locked. The guy didn't even knock. I told him the last 2 days "you need to knock" and he claims he did.. I even opened the door and knocked hard and said "YOU NEED TO KNOCK LIKE THIS !" but he just calmly said "sorry." I would see the other stewards knocking loud and announcing housekeeping multiple times before attempting entry to other cabins, and wondered why he was not doing the same. I was so mad I considered removing gratuities but there were 2 reasons why I did not do that: 1. Why penalize all the other workers for this guys creepy behavior, and 2. I did not have time to spend standing in the mile-long line at the guest services desk. (Just being honest)

 

I get nauseous thinking about what lurks on a table top that has no tablecloth, always seeing that filthy rag from the gray plastic tub that goes from table to table touching everything in its path.

 

My utensil can never touch that table top,so I pad it with napkins and such. By the time I'm done, my table top looks like it was constructed with a game of Tetris.

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I love a freshly pressed tablecloth (yes, I still iron!) on my table at special family gatherings and enjoy the whole ritual of it. After the meal is over, the tablecloth goes into the laundry where it is washed, dried and folded and put away until the next gathering.

 

Now, when I imagine 3000 guests sitting down at tables each night and all the tablecloths used, and then all of those tablecloths being washed and dried day after day, the glamour of the tablecloth is replaced by the shame of what is being done to our environment just for a simple aesthetic pleasure. :mad:

 

I'm all about going green and I applaud Carnival for addressing the issue that is most relevant in today's world.

 

The food still tastes the same and the company and socialization just as wonderful.

 

Just my two cents :D

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I love a freshly pressed tablecloth (yes, I still iron!) on my table at special family gatherings and enjoy the whole ritual of it. After the meal is over, the tablecloth goes into the laundry where it is washed, dried and folded and put away until the next gathering.

 

Now, when I imagine 3000 guests sitting down at tables each night and all the tablecloths used, and then all of those tablecloths being washed and dried day after day, the glamour of the tablecloth is replaced by the shame of what is being done to our environment just for a simple aesthetic pleasure. :mad:

 

I'm all about going green and I applaud Carnival for addressing the issue that is most relevant in today's world.

 

The food still tastes the same and the company and socialization just as wonderful.

 

Just my two cents :D

Do you think the "laundry" stops ever? Really? with 3000 passengers and 2000 or staff???? The tablecloths were just a "drop in the bucket" so to speak of the laundry done on a cruise. I doubt those machines (and the people running them) even noticed.... PLUS Carnival has a closed environment, anything going out to sea from the ship is water that was reclaimed from the sea first (reverse osmosis), filtered, used, then filtered prior to being released IF it is "greywater"... which is what would be from the laundry. The water going back out would be cleaner than the water taken in by the ship... so yes it would be "green".

 

You can enjoy tablecolths, clean towels, etc. and not worry about the "environment" on a ship, at least not the water part. As for the power and the energy being used, the power plants onboard make the same amount of energy regardless of whether it is used or not.

Edited by bobsfamily
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