I have heard so many conflicting stories about Jamaica and the safety issue

[dyslexic pirate]

I am not looking forward to Ocho Rios. I've lived in the rougher areas of big cities and tend to think I'm pretty street savy. Last time we were in Ocho Rios on a ship sponsored dolpin excursion the cashier at the dolphin gift shop tried to do some slight of hand and tried to pass off my gold visa card to another guy that was standing off to the side of the register area. (I didn't have cash with me and was using plastic to buy a little stuffed dolphin for my daughter, hubby was at the falls with all the cash at the time)

 

I spoke up loudly and told the rest of the large group I was with to wait with me as I tried to find out what the delay and problem was with my credit card. This was after the people at the gift shop had fiddled around and tried to distract me for 10 minutes while they had my card palmed or were passing it back and forth to each other. With the rest of my cruise buddies standing nearby I finally just looked at the guy and told him to hand my card over before I reported their actions to NCL. I told him "No BS buddy and No Worries...right?!" (I got the impression his buddy was trying to write down the numbers from my credit card on a slip of paper and this was after it had been swiped through their machine)

 

The whole experience in Jamaica was weird. I hadn't expected it. I will need to warn my older sons about not acting too macho or making direct eye contact with the local men as I don't want some bizarre challenge thing starting up. (my older boys are patriotic/cowboy types that ordinarily don't back down from a confrontation)

 

If our ship does not dock very near Margarittaville I highly doubt my daughter and I will get off the ship. Hubby and sons will venture to Dunn's River Falls. Personally I think the falls are beautiful but I would rather not face the shopping "gauntlet" on the way out.

BTW the last time we visited the falls it had been held up by robbers with automatic machine guns the day before. One man in the ticket booth was killed. Armed guards were highly visible the day we were there.

[rickcop44]

Well, Chesyrkat, it's a bit of a long story, but if you want it, here it is:

 

At the time we took the western Caribbean cruise that included Ocho Rios, I was still a police officer. Out of habit, I always carried my shield with me. When we arrived in OR, we had not booked any shore excursions but wanted to visit Dunns River Falls. There is a certain comraderie among police officers so when we went ashore, I found a Jamaican police officer, showed him my metal and told him we wanted to catch a taxi to DRF. One of the things you'll hear during the ship's talk about Jamaica (at least on this Princess cruise were were on) is that there are two kinds of taxi's in Jamaica -government licensed (and therefore, supposedly reputable) taxi's and everyone else. In fact, as I seem to recall, the goverment regulated taxis had a specific blue or red license plate - in other words, you would be able to tell the good guys from everyone else.

 

Anyway, when I spoke with the police officer, he pointed out a cab to me then walked me over to the driver and told him he was to give us "special treatment" and that her was personally vouching for us. This cabbie was also displaying a government regulated license plate on his cab. I talked with the driver and we agreed on a price of $20 to drive us to DRF. For that price, he would return 2 hours later and pick us up and return us to the ship. Seemed reasonable for 3 people so we hopped in the cab and off we went. After driving for about 15 minutes, the cabbie turned into a shopping mall unlike any mall I had ever seen before. It had a drop gate across the entrance and the gate was manned by two armed guards. As we drove up, one of the guards raised the gate and we drove in. I asked the cabbie why we were going in and he said it was to change drivers as his shift was ending. I thought this somewhat odd, but went along with him. We parked and got out and the driver led us across the mall parking lot, across the street and up to another car that was supposedly the cab that would take us to DRF. I noticed nothing on the car that would indicate it was a cab and asked about it. The driver produced a taxi license and assured us he was legitimate (keep in mind, I'm leery as all get out by now, but I'm also remembering that it was a Jamaican police officer who started all this). We got in the cab and believer it or not, he took us to DRF. The driver told us he would return in two hours and pick us up and take us back to the ship.

 

Now, we had a blast at the Falls themselves, although there were two things that irritated me. First, when we got dropped off, we were deluged by people trying to sell us things. We even had a woman with a donkey in tow follow us trying to get us to give her money for having our picture taken with her donkey. When I told her no thank you for the umpteenth time, I was hit with a barrage of expletives like I usually only heard from some drug crazed idiot I would arrest on a Saturday night back home. She followed us all the way to the entrance to the Falls screaming at us before turning away to find her next customer.

 

The second thing was leaving the Falls only to find that we were being funneled into a gauntlet of little set up shops selling anything and everything. One man tried to sell us "homemade salt and pepper shakers" for only $10 or two sets for $15. I told him no thank you, my wife told him no thank you and we kept on walking. This guy actually ran up behind me and grabbed me by the arm and asked me what I had against Jamaicans and then started pulling on my arm. Up to this point, I had been the perfect gentleman and my wife will vouch for that and she rarely vouches for me. I asked him politely, twice, to remove his hand and he ignored me each time. I finally told him to move it or I'd break his elbow. He moved his hand and started screaming at me - I don't know what he said as he wasn't speaking English but whatever it was, it didn't sound friendly. Needless to say, we got the hell out of there.

 

When we got to the parking lot, lo and behold, there was our original driver waiting for us. We got into the cab and he started driving us back to the ship - or so we thought. As we drove, he would from time to time point out various sights - a sugar factory here, a rum distillery there. We then got to that mall again and he turned into it again. I asked him why we were going in there and he told me we had plenty of time to shop. I told him we didn't want to shop - we just wanted to go back to the ship. Despite my pleadings, he parked his car and got out. Well, my wife told me there were some things she needed and there was a drug store (the legal kind) in the mall, so we picked up some things and then went back to the taxi and waited for the driver to return. After half an hour, he came back and drove us to the ship. When he got about a block from the pier, he stopped. At this point, I was in the front seat with the driver and my missus and my MIL were in the back seat. I asked why we were stopping a block away from the ship and he said it was time to settle up. I reached into my pocket and took out a twenty dollar bill and as well as a $5 bill for a tip. He looked at the money and said, "What's that?" I told him it was the cost of the ride plus a tip. He said that was before he took us sightseeing and shopping. I explained to him that we hadn't asked him to take us shopping and that I wasn't aware of any sightseeing that we had done. Of course, he told us about all the factories he pointed out to us and the coves and the residential areas, yada, yada and that constituted sightseeing. So I asked him how much he wanted and he told me the trip was $25 per person, or $75. I laid the $25 on the seat beside him and told him that was all he was getting and turned to my family and told them to get out. At this point, the driver locked the doors on us and refused to let us out until we paid him the $75 PLUS a tip! I know, it's getting long - I'll skip through it - I refused to pay and he started driving away. I asked him where we were going and he said, "You'll find out what we do with people who stiff taxi driver's in Jamaica." By this time, I'm really pissed and my wife is panicking. At this point, my MIL forked over the money against my protests and after some time, the driver took us to the pier. When we got to the pier, he unlocked the doors and let us out but not before he got out of his cab and started berating us and Americans in general and telling all his cohorts how cheap the American tourists were and that we had tried to cheat him. People started closing in on us as well as two Jamaican police officers (one who was taking out his nightstick as he walked toward us) and if it hadn't been for one of the ship's officers suddenly appearing, we most likely would have found ourselves bloodied and in jail. We latched onto the ship's officer and literally sprinted back to the ship. That isn't easy to do when your 78 year old MIL is with you - I was amazed at how fast she could run, though.

 

That evening at dinner, we were telling our tablemates, who were from Britain, about our little excursion and the man told us that they had hired a cab as well to take them to some attraction on the island that they had wanted to visit. He said he had agreed with a cabbie to pay him $20 to take a party of 3 to this spot. He said the cabbie drove around for about half an hour then dropped them off at their location. Our British friend paid the cabbie his $20 plus a tip. It was only after the cabbie had left and they starting walking that our tablemates realized they had been dropped off about two blocks from the ship. The cabbie had driven them in circles for half an hour and then dropped them off at a spot they could have walked to in 5 minutes.

 

Anyway, that was my visit to Ocho Rios. By no means am I'm saying the rest of Jamaica is similar and I'm not going to judge the country or its citizens by my experience in Ocho Rios. I know better to do that. I have no doubt the vast majority of Jamaicans are a warm and friendly people. But my experience in OR had a profound effect on me. I will never, ever again set foot in Ocho Rios. I got assaulted, damned near kidnapped, shaken down for money and just about tossed in jail by two overzealous Jamaican police officers.

[dyslexic pirate]

Rickcop44

 

It was a 6 foot 5 transvestite with the donkey who was getting money for photos when we were at the Falls. He had on a garish, brightly colored ruffled outfit and a big hat with fruit on it. The donkey would try to bite anyone who got close to it.

 

The stoned rastafarian guys in the shopping area were some pretty scary dudes. I never carry a purse and went through before my husband (he was still climbing the falls and I'd had enough and was on my way back to the ship) and just showed them my empty hands when they hasseled me and we got through the gauntlet pretty quick. But the customer service there was the most unique I've ever experienced.

 

Consider yourself lucky with the taxi ride. A man that I work with was in OR and along with some other couples on their cruise decided to do the independent thing and hire a cabbie to take them on a "locals" tour of the area. They didn't know the guy was drunk. The accident was bad, it was a head on. One woman was killed. At least four others badly injured. My friend sat in the middle of the highway for almost two hours holding his badly bleeding wife waiting for some kind of ambulance to arrive. Finally some sypathetic people stopped and drove them to a hospital.

 

My friends story, like yours, is the stuff that movies of the week are made of. But to make it short and sweet after three months in the 3rd world hospital with basically ransoms being demanded for his wife's release my friend hired some ex green berets to smuggle her out of the hospital in the dead of night. They got her to some airstrip and a flew her the heck out of there. My friend tells the story much better than I do. Before I visited Jamaica I was like yeah sure whatever...but it really is as bad as they say it is and much worse in some cases.

 

If you are traveling with naive, sheltered, doe eyed individuals stick with the ship excursions and make sure they go to the island speech and take it seriously. The folks in Jamiaca don't screw around.

[rickcop44]

Geez, my experience pales in comparison to your friends' experience. I wish her the best. I actually left out some of the "minor" encounters we had - like the woman who was selling hand-made necklaces out of straw and plastic braid for $5 each. She insisted on putting one on my wife's neck and then demanded the money after she'd put it on her. My wife took it off, thanked her and tried to hand the necklace back to her. The woman insisted my wife had bought the necklace and demanded the money. When my DW was finally able to return it, the woman called my lovely lady a "lady of the evening" although not in those words. She told my MIL she hoped she fell down and broke her hip. Lovely woman. The other story I didn't include was the guy who tried to sell drugs to the 10 year old son of our British dinner companions.

 

What is ironic about this is that the cruise lines pretty much bagged St. Croix because of the high crime rate. I've been to St. Croix three times and loved every minute of it. St. Croix is the safest place in the world compared to Ocho Rios yet the cruise ships still stop there while bypassing St. Croix. Go figure.

[cheshyrkat]

Jeez...Thanks for sharing your experiences, rickcop. It's really scary how things work in other countries sometimes. Makes me even more certain in my decision to stick with a tour and not go shopping. :eek:

[waterbound]

I think if anyone goes to Jamaica and stays on the ship then you will be missing a wonderful experience.. The island is beautiful.. Not saying that anyones experiences didnt happen and I dont mean to downplay what has happened but it is truly magical there.. Fortunately we have nothing but good things to say about Jamaica and I plan on taking a land trip there in the future so we can spend more time there experiencing the island.. The locals have been nothing but nice and friendly.. I take into perspective that alot of locals depend on tourist money to get by so sometimes they may seem a little overwhelming but for the most part I dont think they mean any harm.. Im sure there is drugs and crime there, but heck we have that right here in Texas..

[Ripley]

It would be a shame to be docked in Jamaica and miss experiencing the island. It has great natural beauty, wonderful music and some very charming people. Use the same precautions you would in any big US city, ie. keep valuables close, be aware of your surroundings and on alert for scams. I suggest booking a private tour guide. Trevor Hudlin and Peat Taylor are highly recommended, also Marva somebody. They know how to avoid problem areas, and can shelter you from potential hassles. Prices are reasonable.

[Host Caroline]

Jamaica is beautiful when you get out of the towns but in over 15 years of cruising with probably 8 port calls in Jamaica (most recent 9/.05) I can honestly say that the hassling is worse than it was before. We did a private cab to the falls this year and had to run the gauntlet.. were almost assaulted when we didn't want the video the guide took at first (others ended up getting paying for it..).. I was delighted to get back to the Island Village and Margaritaville where here WAS no hassle. I used to be a TA and I can't tell you how many honeymooners love Sandals but didn't like feeling like they were a prisoner here.. Unfortunately the government has yet to figure out a way to convince many of the people that they need to stop hassling tourists and being difficult... it's not the island that's the issue and it's not even "most" of the people.. the proverbial 10% of the total giving the rest a bad rap.

[melika091900]

we were in jamaica on the conquest..

it is a beautiful place.. but.... i didnt feel safe neither... not just offering drugs and weapons.but everything about it...

the best thing i recommend to anyone is to do an excursion through the cruiseline, we did a shopping and highlights tour and it was worth it,, and at least we were in a group...

ive heard its safer at the resorts. but ive also heard that locals scale the walls stealing food and stuff, its sad really...

[dyslexic pirate]

While I was watching my daughter do the dolphin thing a very well educated young local man started up a conversation with me. He was a teacher who worked part time at the dolphin park.

 

I asked about everything, politics, religion, crime etc.

 

To sum most of it up he said there is resentment among the locals regarding the cruisers who seem to have alot of money to just toss around. He said not only do people make only about 70 bucks on average a month but the government is constantly changing the way they tax people (it changes day to day with no warning) and they can never get ahead. Also he said it's darn near impossible to get a visa just to visit another country. He personally had applied for a visa ($$ plus discreet but expected bribes) several times and the government would toy with him and always just tell him to apply again in a year. The main resentment the locals have against the cruisers is that they have the choice and can LEAVE and travel the world and have dreams and opportunities.

 

Knowing this helped my perspective on Jaimca. There IS a sense of hopelessness and desperation that I think the government perpetuates. Keep an ear on the news and every once in a while you will hear tidbits about little revolts going on there. However, you won't hear much as the Jamaican government doesn't want the bad press to hurt the tourism market.

 

If you ever get the chance to have a straight forward conversation with a local or a ship employee from Jamaica take advantage of it!

[Suesan Jean]

We will be going to Jamaica on our NCL Dawn cruise next month. I do have a reservation with Marva Shaw to drive us around and show us the sights.

 

But, I really am quite concerned about our safety. Besides my DH and I, we have two 13 year old girls. SHOULD I BE concerned?????:confused:

 

Reading SO MANY stories is VERY, VERY, VERY disconcerting....:o

 

Suesan:) :) :)

[wibeachbum]

I am very concerned reading these stories too. We visited Ocho Rios in 1984 on a cruise and my husband, who was in his mid twenties at the time was approached by a guy selling pot and a hooker as soon as we walked off the dock. (and he was with me an my mom). I thought maybe things have changed but now I don't know. We will have our two daughters with us (15 and 18) and I worry about their safety if some local takes a liking to them!

[mew1]

Yes there is bad things to worry about, that's why I took a private tour with Mark Morris, see his site, www.markstours.com, it was the BEST experience I have ever had on a tour or any excursion, write with any questions smdwade@aol.com. Truly it was the best experience. Mary:)

[TheWog]

That's a horrible story and I am disturbed just reading it. I have to wonder if it was the flashing of the badge that did you in though?

 

I have never had anythin, but good experiences while in Jamaica.

[rickcop44]

Wog, I seriously doubt my showing my badge to a "follow officer" did me in. Reading the threads basically reinforced what I already felt about Jamaica. No question, the island itself is beautiful. No doubt, the vast majority of the people of Jamaica are good folks. It's always the small minority that ruins it for everyone else. I felt it for years in law enforcement. One bad cop gave the entire profession a bad image. And yes, that is grossly unfair. As for some of the Jamaicans resenting the cruise tourists because we have money and we can go where we want, I find that to be a feeble excuse. I have cruised throughout the Caribbean, in the South Pacific, Australia and New Zealand and have never, ever felt any resentment nor have I been treated the way we were treated in Ocho Rios. On the contrary, the people I've met have been friendly and most helpful. I've found cruise tourists to be friendly, outgoing people who are generous to a fault and if the citizens of Jamaica, or any other country for that matter, would simply stop and realize what we do to help their economy, they would end up winners all the way around. Many of the islands in the Caribbean depend almost exclusively on tourism dollars to bolster their economy. In my case, I was hoodwinked, no question. I should have been smarter than that. But generally, when I make an agreement with someone, I expect that both parties will honor that agreement. I'm from the old school. I still believe that people can come to an understanding and agree on a handshake. We live in a scary world right now, but I still like to give my fellow human being the benefit of the doubt until he/she proves otherwise. But based on my experience in Ocho Rios, I will never again travel to that part of Jamaica. I may visit other parts of the island, but OR is bye bye.

[TheWog]

THank you for your response. You just never know what someone's intentions are and if he was trying to show you this is "his" country and give you the "special" treatment for being American and coming down and trying garner favors. Just a curiosity. Again, thanks for responding.

[cheshyrkat]

Interesting point, Wog...In some countries they don't take well to displays of machismo and that could lead to some issues.

[sea_breaze]

Those are very disturbing stories Rick & Pirate have. Unfortunately there are many more. Everytime I've been to Jamaica (3X) there has been an incident though minor compared to some of the stories. Sure it is a beautiful island but so is Haiti and I have no desire to visit there.

 

No doubt the people are desperate here but it's not our fault and to be berated and hated because we are tourists that won't spend our money @ a specific time with a specific person is unacceptable.There is poverty of this level @ almost every other Carribean Port both east and west and I've never had the issues I've had in Jamaica (both OR and Mo Bay). I'm sure it is a small percentage of the people that give Jamaica a "bad rap" but this percentage needs to be reduced to make tourists more comfortable if they want to continue receiving our business.

 

There are many, many cruisers that do not like this place and the cruiselines should take notice and completely eliminate this "Port of Call" until things change. Spend more time on what to do in Jamaica safely then I care to do on vacation. After reading this thread and many just like it previously, I for one have decided not to book any future cruises with Jamaica on the itinerary. Just not worth the aggravation.