Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[Barky]

No wonder why they liked it so much. LOL

[berwyn]

I can't wait to watch oprah tomorrow.

[tray]

Okay---it's taken a while but I've finally read all the postings on this thread!!! I'm so intrigued~and have some questions:

1. I haven't seen any television coverage of the couple and/or JHS after

this tragedy occured. Has she seemed grief-stricken? Does she seem to

be in shock over the loss of her new husband?

2. Is it possible that she paid the Russians/New York kids to 'off' GS?

Maybe that is why she was conveniently asleep in the hall---and got

up early before they found him missing? Therefore, her whereabouts

during the time of the tragedy were accounted for. My husband and I

were pretty big partiers in our younger days (and there were times I

felt like laying down anywhere just to pass out), but we always made it

back to our own place to crash! I know everyone keeps saying they

drank a lot, but even on my worst drinking nights when I remembered

nothing the next morning, somehow I woke up in my own bed.

3. Just a point: when GS and the guys got back to his room he wanted

to go look for JHS----but she woke up to go to a couples massage

without him? I know some have said she was mad because he wasn't

in the room, but she was the one allegedly dancing/flirting, etc. with

the casino manager earlier. Seems like he was more concerned with

her whereabouts than she was with him.

4. How about this theory? She pays the guys to 'off' GS, passes out in

the hall, the guys throw him over (hence that first big thud), move

furniture back then leave. One stays behind (Josh?) to wait for JHS &

hides on the balcony when security knocks. RCC crew members drop her

off in the room a little while later, Josh enters from the balcony (leaving

the door open a little), exits to go back to his room at 5:15 a.m.?

5. My big question: After so much heavy drinking (heavier than most

previous nights apparently?), how are all these people willingly up at

8:00 a.m. or so and not hung over beyond comprehension? I know they

are much younger than me, but even in my younger 'professional

partying' days, I felt like total crap the next morning if I drank too

much. Just food for thought: too much guilt/adrenaline coursing

through their veins?. Hmmmmmm?

 

Okay---keep those comments/theories coming! I'm lovin them! I've not seen one Greta/Rita/Oprah show yet. So I've got a lot of catching up to do!!:D

[EBFURR]

Here is what I thought about that. There wasn't enough blood on the canopy to suggest a fatal wound. There would have been much more than there was if that was the case. Also, anyone who was staying on that ship, or had been in the Smith's cabin, no doubt had been on the balcony. Wouldn't they have known that there was a canopy below, so if they threw him over, it was not a straight shot to the water? Seems to me if they had basic knowledge of the ship, they'd have known that.

 

I have been operating under the premise that IF someone pushed him over that they either were not aware of the awning or did not think about it at the time. Apparently you have to lean out over the railing a bit to see it, and it was probably pretty dark at the time. It is a good point, though and is one of those things that points to an accidental fall.

 

In watching the TV coverage, I was a little surprised at how wide that thing actually is. One shot showed a crew member walking on it, and it appeared to be at least 7-8 feet wide. In that perspective the pool of blood looks to be pretty large, like maybe GS was laying there for a while.

 

I am still of the opinion that it very well could have been an accident. Something is not adding up with the stories from the 4 others who were in the room with GS, so there is the possibilty of foul play.

 

My thought process is to take what is known to be fact (mainly RCI's timeline based on security records and staff accounts) what is at least semi-credible (the neighbor's "ear witness" account, some of the witness statements from the disco, etc.) and trying to figure out scenarios that would fit that information if foul play was involved. In other words, COULD it have been a murder? Truthfully, there are not very many possible scenarios that do not require ignoring certain facts or contradicting some witness accounts.

 

The FBI seems to be still working on this and probably feels some pressure now that the media seems to have taken a renewed interest. Once the press hounds start snooping, and the lawyers ratchet up the rhetoric, and the opportunity for 15 minutes of fame becomes enticing, there are bound to be leaks. Someone is bound to break the FBI's request for silence. It will be interesting for the next couple of weeks and I would not be surprised if there is a wave of newly released information soon.

[EBFURR]

Hey, Tray, welcome to the amateur sleuths club. Some of what you say is valid, but I have a hard time believing that JHS was directly involved. If she was, she would probably be keeping a much lower profile at this point. She seems to be pressing for an arrest. If it is as you specuate, someone is bound to "roll" on her, as they are not going to take the rap while she skates. Her behavior the next morning is a little strange - showing up so early, not changing clothes or taking a shower before a massage appointment, etc. - but can possibly be explained. If the couple did have an argument, it is possible that she just assumed that GS was just "blowing her off" and was staying with his new friends. Most of the big question marks surround the 3-4 men who were with GS and the time period between 4:05 and 4:47 AM. If they can be accounted for during that time, it was almost certainly an accident.

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Ya knows, I would have thought that the spa staff would have asked about the DH, as it was a couple's appointment....I don't recall if DW was asked or what the answer was...the first time I've heard her asked was by the officer who was trying to find who was MIA due to the blood splatter.

 

Also, if Josh was familure with the awning below the cabin, and given that he was stopped from leaving the ship, taken to where the DW was, etc. it may be that it was a logical question to ask if there was blood outside the ship...keeping in mind that folks stated taking photo's of the splatter as early as 7AM. The grape vine might work a lot faster than we have given it credit.

[stanford's girl]

I have a question about Rita Crosby. I watched her for the first time last night. Is that her real voice or does she have a cold? Her voice was like fingernails on a chalkboard to me!!:eek:

[cruzfiend]

Rita's voice is different- i'll give ya that.

[kenf333]

Hey, Tray, welcome to the amateur sleuths club. Some of what you say is valid, but I have a hard time believing that JHS was directly involved. If she was, she would probably be keeping a much lower profile at this point. She seems to be pressing for an arrest. If it is as you specuate, someone is bound to "roll" on her, as they are not going to take the rap while she skates. Her behavior the next morning is a little strange - showing up so early, not changing clothes or taking a shower before a massage appointment, etc. - but can possibly be explained. If the couple did have an argument, it is possible that she just assumed that GS was just "blowing her off" and was staying with his new friends. Most of the big question marks surround the 3-4 men who were with GS and the time period between 4:05 and 4:47 AM. If they can be accounted for during that time, it was almost certainly an accident.

 

The only one that can account for them are themselves!

[flatwallet]

I don't remember reading this anywhere..just might have missed it, but:

What if the husband went to his cabin and went out on the balcony and the door closed behind him? As I recall, once a cabin door closes you can't get back in. Maybe he pushed the chair next to the rail thinking he could stand on it and perhaps get to a balcony on either side and knock on the balcony door. If he did this he could have slipped and fell to the canopy.

[EBFURR]

The only one that can account for them are themselves!

 

Ken, agreed, but I was thinking along the lines of video cameras or reliable eyewitness acounts placing them somewhere else during the time in question. My statement is along the lines of "if it can be determined for sure that none of these people had access to GS during the period, then it was almost certainly an accident". It is pretty apparent by now that it is not possible to determine this, so they are remaining under suspicion.

 

pirate, I had the same thought about Josh hearing rumors about the blood. After all, it was after 10:00 when he saw JHS as reported by Marie, and the ship had been "buzzing" for a couple of hours about the blood sighting and the constant paging. This is according to some information on a blog from some passengers. But then..... could it be more sinister than that?? (suspenseful music here).

 

You know, there is one thing that sticks in my mind about the staff captain's interview with Greta. He says that the first time he asked JHS if she knew where her husband was, she said "he is probably in the room". Only after she was told that they had checked the room did she say he might be with friends. Not pointing a finger at JHS, just pointing out more strangeness. She obviously knew he was not in the room when she left.

[zotzer]

As I recall, once a cabin door closes you can't get back in. .

 

You can get back in, unless someone actually locks you out there.

Tracy

[rcicruiser]

Accident or murder. Is the cruiseline at fault no, coverup no. What ever happened that night George and Jennifer where partial to blame. They where drinking and partying. They had a fight and where mad at each other. Let me ask you this if they where not drinking and everything else and went back to the cabin together would anything have happened to George. I doubt it. It is the time blame be placed correctly by the Smith family instead of blaming the cruiseline and the people who's cabin was by the canopy. Why didn't they hear anything and report Smith's father said. Not everyone who hears a noise will report it. I believe one person said something because they thought the ship had hit something.

 

Some people hear something and they are not going to look. Some people are heavy sleepers. The Smith's can keep it in the news but they should not be blaming everyone in the world. They even attack people who are trying to help them..Cut of communications with the cruiseline and now critcizing Dr Lee.

 

I also still think that Jennifer Smith caring now and playing the grieving widow is a little too much too late. She may not have done anything to her husband but her actions on the ship before she was told he was missing where a little strange. They where not the perfect honeymoon couple that the family wants people to believe.

[Barky]

Accident or murder. Is the cruiseline at fault no, coverup no. What ever happened that night George and Jennifer where partial to blame. They where drinking and partying. They had a fight and where mad at each other. Let me ask you this if they where not drinking and everything else and went back to the cabin together would anything have happened to George. I doubt it. It is the time blame be placed correctly by the Smith family instead of blaming the cruiseline and the people who's cabin was by the canopy. Why didn't they hear anything and report Smith's father said. Not everyone who hears a noise will report it. I believe one person said something because they thought the ship had hit something.

 

Some people hear something and they are not going to look. Some people are heavy sleepers. The Smith's can keep it in the news but they should not be blaming everyone in the world. They even attack people who are trying to help them..Cut of communications with the cruiseline and now critcizing Dr Lee.

 

I also still think that Jennifer Smith caring now and playing the grieving widow is a little too much too late. She may not have done anything to her husband but her actions on the ship before she was told he was missing where a little strange. They where not the perfect honeymoon couple that the family wants people to believe.

 

Personally from the reading I have done I don't think the Smiths are criticizing Dr. Lee. I believe they are trying to provide information they supposedly received back in the beginning of this thing that there was, in fact, a dent in the canopy. This is good since the canopy is to be the primary source of info. for Dr. Lee and he has said he will focus most of his attention to it.

[berwyn]

She always talks that way.

[AFT_LOVER]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10892399/

[Barefoot_Pirate]

rci, there was at least one call about the thud...folks thought the ship had struck something...iceburg I guess.

 

I think think the dumbest criticism of RCCL todate is the "why didn't they turn around and look for him....yea they are in port for several hours and they are going to use a cruise ship to do a search and rescue...ya gotta wonder about some of the "news" people.

 

This Dr. Lee does a great Mr. Moto imitation I think (1930's movies). I think I read somewhere that he was a OJ defense team expert....oh, that gives me a lot of confidence in what he has to say.

[wolfganghowell]

ok - watched Rita and Greta on tape at lunch (ha - the video room here used for personal gain!) The family now just annoys me - no perspective - blame everyone. Now they are critical that other passengers are not rallying around them to provide information? they are critical that people can actually sleep? I'm a great sleeper and when I'm awakened by a noise I usually wait for another one to follow it - if not, I go back to sleep. They also want a passenger list? Perhaps the lawyer daughter needs to be apprised of privacy laws. I would imagine there is not a court that would approve a 2500-3000 potential witness list. I'm sure that legitimate passenger witnesses would go to the FBI with all this coverage. The only people they seem to approve of are the people who back them up unconditionally. I think the Sandler couple may be well intentioned but I also believe it is REASONABLE to allow that they MIGHT have the rooms mixed up.

 

Greta is doing excellent coverage now - fair balance, not attacking anyone but sticking to known facts, clear interpretation and keeping away from the sensational.

 

Rita lost ground with me on the whole Tara Reid thing. Good grief - they were on vacation, they saw a "celebrity" and they got a picture with her. JHS probably took the stinking picture. It has nothing to do with the story.

 

Based on the behavior of these young men, it could very well have been foul play, an accident once they left or an accident while they were present and they panicked. How the FBI can't "break their story" is the missing piece of the puzzle right now.

[Maryfrei]

IMHO, if anyone has info, give it to the FBI, not Rita or anyone else. Rita seems to like to stir it up and play on emotions, her job, I guess.

[wolfganghowell]

Pirate - I liked that they accused RCI of deliberately going to Turkey because they knew the investigation would be shoddy. Really - these people need to be told to be quiet - they are hurting their own investigation. I'd love to know if the FBI has asked them to be quiet and if they are ignoring that request. I know they are in pain but they have lost any credibility with me. Maybe I'm naive - I would trust the official FBI investigation and then if I disagree with its merits, then I might speak out. And no one appears to challenge them on their "fact finding". No one asked them about the drinking, the fighting, the personal responsibility aspect of this. Oh - right. If they do, they might not get them as their "exclusive story." UGH

[ts01854]

ok - watched Rita and Greta on tape at lunch (ha - the video room here used for personal gain!) The family now just annoys me - no perspective - blame everyone. Now they are critical that other passengers are not rallying around them to provide information? they are critical that people can actually sleep? I'm a great sleeper and when I'm awakened by a noise I usually wait for another one to follow it - if not, I go back to sleep. They also want a passenger list? Perhaps the lawyer daughter needs to be apprised of privacy laws. I would imagine there is not a court that would approve a 2500-3000 potential witness list. I'm sure that legitimate passenger witnesses would go to the FBI with all this coverage. The only people they seem to approve of are the people who back them up unconditionally. I think the Sandler couple may be well intentioned but I also believe it is REASONABLE to allow that they MIGHT have the rooms mixed up.

 

Greta is doing excellent coverage now - fair balance, not attacking anyone but sticking to known facts, clear interpretation and keeping away from the sensational.

 

Rita lost ground with me on the whole Tara Reid thing. Good grief - they were on vacation, they saw a "celebrity" and they got a picture with her. JHS probably took the stinking picture. It has nothing to do with the story.

 

Based on the behavior of these young men, it could very well have been foul play, an accident once they left or an accident while they were present and they panicked. How the FBI can't "break their story" is the nmissing piece of the puzzle right now.

 

If you think he met with foul play, then why not let them have the pax list.everybody on it could be a witness or suspect.

 

The more they know about the pax list the easier it can be to solve the crime. i.e. what if JHS ex boyfriend happened to be on the list

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Well, the only good thing about Rita is that she is on MSNBC, which has been at the bottom of the ratings for a such a long time that people have forgotten it is there. IMHO

[Barky]

After seeing and listening to the Smith family, if I had any information on this case, I would be very hesitant to contact them. Perhaps that is why they aren't hearing from more passengers. Sheesh.

[azbirdz]

I completely agree with you --- Even in a transcript, without any facial input, this family is grasping at straws. If we are to believe that GS and JHS behavior wasn't a contributing factor BEFORE 'it' occurred (and therefore, they aren't responsible)-- then why does the family want to hold other people responsible for not reacting to 'it'? (fairly rhetorical question -- they are in pain, and I feel for them.) One other thing -- All three of the Smith family speak in the first person, as if they have firsthand knowledge of what happened at various points -- and then this gets repeated as fact -- when in fact, it's hearsay.

 

One more thing -- I completely agree that Greta is far more balanced and even lucid! Rita reminds me of a neighborhood gossip!

 

Anyway --- I love reading this thread and appreciate how well thought out everyone's postings are --- Keep it up!

 

ok - watched Rita and Greta on tape at lunch (ha - the video room here used for personal gain!) The family now just annoys me - no perspective - blame everyone. Now they are critical that other passengers are not rallying around them to provide information? they are critical that people can actually sleep? I'm a great sleeper and when I'm awakened by a noise I usually wait for another one to follow it - if not, I go back to sleep. They also want a passenger list? Perhaps the lawyer daughter needs to be apprised of privacy laws. I would imagine there is not a court that would approve a 2500-3000 potential witness list. I'm sure that legitimate passenger witnesses would go to the FBI with all this coverage. The only people they seem to approve of are the people who back them up unconditionally. I think the Sandler couple may be well intentioned but I also believe it is REASONABLE to allow that they MIGHT have the rooms mixed up.

 

Greta is doing excellent coverage now - fair balance, not attacking anyone but sticking to known facts, clear interpretation and keeping away from the sensational.

 

Rita lost ground with me on the whole Tara Reid thing. Good grief - they were on vacation, they saw a "celebrity" and they got a picture with her. JHS probably took the stinking picture. It has nothing to do with the story.

 

Based on the behavior of these young men, it could very well have been foul play, an accident once they left or an accident while they were present and they panicked. How the FBI can't "break their story" is the missing piece of the puzzle right now.

[wolfganghowell]

ts - I would be livid if RCI gave out a passenger manifest. The only people it should be given to are the FBI (which apparently has it) and once this thing actually goes to court - if it does - then the slimy lawyer can subpoena it. This family has no legal reason to demand a passenger manifest. Apparently this family sees everything as a grand conspiracy and coverup and if I were a passenger I would not want to be contacted by them. That is the job of the investigating authority which leads us back to the FBI.