Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[kenf333]

No offense taken, but I think you need to go read some of the other blogs on the net before you say it's only RCI suporters saying that. Lots of people are saying that, not just here...;)

 

Lol so they jump board to board.

 

Never mind this is too much, lol

[stanford's girl]

Listen you have been on here a while and you know that people have different points of view, at this point some guess what the answer is or grab it from there gut, my comment was not attacking you, but why on earth would you say the things you have against her when everything points at the four men that last seen him?? I know if I was in there shoes that I would raise all hell until I had answers of were my spouse or son is and what happened. The family, his family said that last night.

I know that you weren't attacking me Ken.

I have never said that I thought JHS did it but I will stand by the fact that I think she knows more than she is saying.

And I also would be raising hell if it was my son. The only difference between me and his parents is that I would make sure I knew the facts before I opened my mouth. And you can bet that it JHS was my DIL, that she better be talking to me about what happened that night.

[kenf333]

I know that you weren't attacking me Ken.

 

I have never said that I thought JHS did it but I will stand by the fact that I think she knows more than she is saying.

 

And I also would be raising hell if it was my son. The only difference between me and his parents is that I would make sure I knew the facts before I opened my mouth. And you can bet that it JHS was my DIL' date=' that she better be talking to me about what happened that night. [/size']

 

Based off of the DIL I'm sure you can understand that no matter what she said to them it would not be good enough.

[stanford's girl]

Oh no doubt, and they maybe up the FBI's but when they are not on tv, and I think the only support they have lost has been of loyal RCCL people. If people would post with something that backs there feelings then het im all for it, but if every other post is slamming a person that is not here to defend herself (that would be nice) that is very wrong, and if people think I'm rude for saying what I said then fine, jump on the bandwagon. corona I think you know me well enough by now that its not a personal attack.

I do believe that you are talking about me Ken. Let me tell you I have only sailed with RCCL once and am not loyal to them.

And is it me who you think is slamming JHS "every other post"??

[FinelyCruising]

And here we have the entitlements that in-laws think they have.....I recall one family incident where the 'family' thought they could overrule the wife in detrmineing where the husband ought to be burried. Th wife has the ultimate say-so as a reult mof marital priviledge which freaked the 'family' out, so I imagine GAS'S parents feel a bit helpless....

 

Heavens....for JHS, imagine the conflict of the Honeymoon events and the In-Laws. I might rather disappear than fight this fight!:rolleyes:

[stanford's girl]

Based off of the DIL I'm sure you can understand that no matter what she said to them it would not be good enough.

But my point was she hasn't talked to them at all, which I find very strange.

[kenf333]

I do believe that you are talking about me Ken. Let me tell you I have only sailed with RCCL once and am not loyal to them.

 

And is it me who you think is slamming JHS "every other post"??

 

Nope not about U

[kenf333]

But my point was she hasn't talked to them at all' date=' which I find very strange.[/size']

 

Not sure about the at all part, I assume they would like to know more.

[FinelyCruising]

Glad we are clearing this up. I'd like to make sure this thread stays on the board...

[stanford's girl]

Nope not about U

Thank you.

[stanford's girl]

Glad we are clearing this up. I'd like to make sure this thread stays on the board...

Me too!!:D There is too much good info on this thread.

[FinelyCruising]

Good. Now that that's out of the way let's move on.;)

[stanford's girl]

Does anyone know what show will be handling this on Monday? I have to believe that after Dr. Lee and the family get their 2 hours on the ship, that someone would cover it.

[1corona4u]

Does anyone know what show will be handling this on Monday? I have to believe that after Dr. Lee and the family get their 2 hours on the ship' date=' that someone would cover it.[/size']

 

Greta invited him on, and he agreed, but I bet he will be doing many.

[FinelyCruising]

I remember Greta from Court TV. She has such an objective position in this story IMHO. I am glad she is up first.

[kenf333]

What country does the last name mazza come from?

[1corona4u]

What country does the last name mazza come from?

 

Italy....

[kenf333]

Italy....

 

Dang, thought so.

[stanford's girl]

Greta invited him on, and he agreed, but I bet he will be doing many.

Good because I'm not sure if I can stand to listen to Nancy or Rita anymore.;)

[FinelyCruising]

I'll listen to them all...each one will have a turn.

[stanford's girl]

BTW Corona~~I thought you did a good job on putting your theory together. :) Your attention to detail is amazing.

[Kaibigan]

When I lost my mother years ago, I felt like I was living some surreal nightmare that I couldn't wake up from. Thankfully, time helps to heal that feeling. For the family of George Smith, they still haven't been able to bury him or know what happened to him. I simply cannot imagine the horror they are feeling.

 

Yes, it seems like they are hostile. And it seems to me that there is so much gossip flying around. How could the Smith family be in contact with so many witnesses? (Has anyone ever noticed that when something bad happens to someone, suddenly some person who has never even spoken to the victim jumps up and says they were their best friend and so on?) Does anyone know if any of these witnesses are for real? If they are in it for the limelight, it would be a terribly sick thing to do to a grieving family; to give them hope of finding answers.

 

As for them lashing out at RCI, I can understand that as a grieving family, they need to point the finger at someone, anyone, just because it might give them a sense of finding truth, having power, something they lost along with their loved one. And I don't think they can think rationally right now. If they could think clearly, they would understand that RCI are not investigators. They take people on vacation. The FBI is still investigating and they also had the local people come on the ship. I'm not sure why they think RCI "handled" anything wrong, since they weren't the ones in charge, except that they are hurting and desperate and grasping at any tidbit of information that is tossed at them. Too bad their lawyer isn't keeping them out of the spotlight. (Or is the sister their lawyer?) :confused:

As for someone seeing RCI employees washing & scrubbing the blood off before authorities came onboard, it didn't look like anything had been tampered with in the pics I saw. (And really, if you saw someone removing evidence, wouldn't you take a picture of that??) Why would anyone torment these people with stuff like that?

 

I also read where the family said the ship shouldn't have been allowed to leave port since it was a crime scene. With all of the blood, it doesn't seem probable that it was an accident, and to allow anyone off the ship could be setting free the killer(s). Thinking that way makes sense to me. But of course, they can't hold thousands of people hostage for months either. What were they to do? I'm sure the port has rules on how long a ship can stay in port before being fined, and I'm also sure that rule would be waived in a possible homocide investigation. But since the investigation was finished & the ship cleared, I'm wondering if the port made them leave on time anyway.:confused:

 

As for Jennifer, I think it's possible that once the alcohol wore off, she couldn't sleep anymore (happens to me whenever I drink; I want to sleep, but can't, so I just get up no matter how I feel.) She might have still been disoriented and thought it was later than it was & rushed off to the appointment. (If they argued, whether it was because either of them was flirting with another or not, she could have still been mad at him & didn't feel like waiting.) In which case she would feel incredibly guilty for not staying with him. How many of us would want to come out and say "Yes, I was flirting with so & so so we started fighting" especially if she didn't have anything to do with his dissappearance? A lot of people have said she knows more than she's saying. But maybe that's all she is hiding, (if anything.) And how would admitting that help solve anything? I'm sure she feels embarrassed enough knowing that the whole world knows she was found passed out in the hallway while something awful was happening to her husband. Either way, she'd try to wash away all of that guilt by blaming anyone else possible, (in this case, the only one around is the cruiseline) not thinking that it is making her look greedy.

 

Of course, maybe the whole family is simply greedy & looking for $$ from RCI. But somehow I think there's more to it. They lost their son, brother, husband and nothing will ever be the same for them.

[kenf333]

Ok, here is my theory;

(quotes from Dateline, whom I trust)

At 2:30, they go to the Lounge. According to witnesses, they drink absinthe, they fight, she leaves at 3:30.

 

George and the guys get to the cabin between 3:30 and 4:00. Found out that Jennifer was not there. I'm guessing that between 3:30-3:45-4:00, they were off looking for Jennifer. They don't find her, so they head back to the cabin. Now it's 4:05.

 

"The deputy chief was awakened by what he thought were at least six loud voices, at the exact same time that — as Josh’s lawyer told the story— George and his drinking buddies had returned from a fruitless search for Jennifer who’d gone missing."

 

“A little after 4 o’clock in the morning, we were awakened by what I’d call loud cheering, something like a college drinking game,” says Hyman. “This happened two distinct times.”

 

They start to drink again, maybe doing shots of Absinthe, and challenging each other to do more. For all we know, part of this challenge might have been to "walk the rail". The sound of moving furniture may have been them jumping back off of the railing, to the balcony. (hey, guys do stupid things, like lighting their farts ;) )

 

 

Hyman: The voices continued. They weren’t as loud as they were during the drinking games. But then after a couple of minutes we heard voices outside the door of the Smith cabin. I don’t recall hearing the door open. I assumed they were leaving the party. But that was just my impression at the time.

 

For a few minutes the next door cabin quieted down, male voices in normal conversation, the chief couldn’t for the most part make out words or subjects.

 

This is where I think Jennifer came back to the cabin. That's why it got quiet. Just because she was not heard, doesn't mean she wasn't in there. I don't think, given the tight timeline, she was there for long.

 

Hyman: This went on for a period of time. And then we heard what sounded like arguing out on the balcony.

 

Murphy: Arguing?

 

Hyman: Yes. Several couple of male voices arguing. It wasn’t a physical confrontation. It was just like they were arguing over some type of point.

 

I think this was the guys & George. Jen probably had left at this point, and the guys & George were arguing over what had happened hours before, with Jen.(because he thought she was with another man) I think Jen, having nowhere else to go, found that out of the way dead end, and just sat down and passed out.

 

 

Hyman: Well, then I heard a voice just repeatedly say "goodnight" and my first assumption was that someone was trying to usher these people that were arguing out of the cabin. In fact, you could hear the progression through the cabin...

 

Now it was about 4:15 in the morning. Chief Hyman heard the adjacent cabin door open and voices receding in the hallway.

 

Hyman: So, I waited for a couple of seconds and then opened the door and looked out.

 

Murphy: What did you see?

 

Hyman: I saw three younger males walking down the hallway.

Young males — but only three of them — leaving George's cabin. Then through the wall, Chief Hyman heard a single male voice moving about speaking in a conversational tone though, oddly, no one replying. Then there was more loud noise.

 

This is where I think George has a tantrum. I don't think there were ever 4 guys and George. I think there were 3 and George. 2 accented, maybe 2 of the Russians, and Josh.

 

"Unbeknownst to Clete Hyman, Pat and Greg Lawyer on the other side of the Smiths, say they had been awakened not by the noise from the cabin but by three soft male voices— two of them accented— in the hallway before the commotion all started. They heard the cabin door open.

 

Pat Lawyer: I figured that this young man was drunk or inebriated. And they were calmly bringing him back to his room. In my mind, there was a young person who was saying, ‘Settle down, calm down, George."

--------------------------------

 

Hyman: And then for the last, maybe, couple of minutes it appeared to be concentrated out on the balcony area. The chairs on the balcony are metal so they make a different type of sound. I heard that noise and then there was silence. It got very quiet. Heard no voice. It was just very quiet.

 

 

Murphy: Silent for how long?

 

 

Hyman: Yes. Maybe three minutes, approximately, and at that point that’s when I heard what I described as a “horrific thud.”

 

Murphy: Tell me in detail...

 

Hyman: The first thought in my mind was somebody fell on the balcony because it was the last place I had heard anyone. However, I quickly dismissed that because the noise was just too loud. There was actually a reverberation to the noise. And somebody just falling you know off their feet to something on a balcony would not cause that much noise.

 

I think George scooted the chair to the rail, climbed up on it, closing the door to the cabin, because it was hot in the cabin, since the door had been open most of the night. We all know after the door is open for a while, it gets hot in there. Maybe he just went out to get some air, and wait for the cabin to cool off. This was probably about the same time Jennifer was found.

 

I think George lost his balance sitting on the rail, fell backwards onto the canopy. The blood shows a small pool, which to me means that he had to lay there for a second or two, maybe passed out, then woke, and either stood up, sat up, or rolled over, falling off the ship.

 

Now, here is something I can't reconcile.

 

If Clete Hyman looked in their cabin at 7:00am, and saw that the bed had been slept in, why didn't he see Jennifer sleeping in it?

 

Where was Jen at 7:00 am if the bed was empty? We know she didn't shower, or change clothes, so she wasn't in the bathroom. And she didn't get to the spa until 8:30.

 

At 7 a.m., the chief went out on his balcony to take some snapshots of the Turkish port and peeked around the partition to the Smith cabin next door. He saw cigarette butts, and the metal chairs and coffee table moved.

Hyman: I noticed that the drapes had been pulled back. That was allowing me to see in that the bed appeared to have been slept in. The sheets were in disarray.

Murphy: Did you notice if the furniture in the room had in fact been moved around?

Hyman: I didn’t want to sit there staring in the room, they could have been in there and this was just literally a quick glance. I couldn't see that far into the room.

 

After going through all of this, I'm not sure it even makes sense to me anymore, LOL, but I've spent an hour doing it, so I'm going to post it, and we can pick it apart from here, LOL...

 

Very nice Corona, I missed this!

 

Just a few thoughts.

JHS ahd never entered cabin otherwise seapass/RCCL would have caught that and the others were partying so they would not have opened door. Originally it was said that there were only three men that took him to his room, however that changed to four. (unsure which one to believe) But lets go with four. Three leave, the fourth is the voice in the cabin frustrated that he cannot find the money that was said to be there. At this point GS had been knocked out or killed.(the loud thashing noise) The person has a hard time lifting him (the noise on the balcony) and finally pushes him over. (the thud) Now GS lay on the canopy (the pooling of blood) The person looks down and around trying to figure out how he can get him off. He notices at the front of the ship the service ladder indicating there must be a crew passage way located on deck 7 (see rccl site for plan) goes through and walks along the canopy to GS and pushes him over. (he stayed along balcony railing to avoid the camera's) The blood spot seemed to smear out like a sliding action occured.

[stanford's girl]

Kaibigan (Kim),

Your post was very well written and covered a lot of good points. Nice job!! :)

[Kaibigan]

We know she didn't shower, or change clothes, so she wasn't in the bathroom.

 

...drinking all night... other reasons to use a bathroom...;)