Port of Miami (and others) being taken over by Dubai?

[MollyBrown]

First of all, the whole deal was handled badly. A group of individuals, unknown to the public, pushed this deal through in secret meetings, and then Bush did not even find out about it until just before the rest of us were informed.

 

Secondly, why take chances? If the government of the UAE controls our ports it will be that much easier for terrorists to get through by infiltrating the company, etc. Also, why do we want our ports controlled by a foreign government? This is not a private company, this is a government owned company. The UAE has had ties with terrorism and the Taliban, so why take the risk?

 

It's amazing to me that the will of the people (most Americans are against it) is not given more consideration here. The problem with globalization, as I see it, is that it allows for more and more of this worldwide corporate domination. The Republican Party in the US has certainly proven that it puts business first. To me, this administration is just another corporation, with its secret meetings, and refusal to let the public in on anything.

 

When you allow the corporate machine to dominate, you are allowing the market to dominate, and the market has no soul and no moral compass. The market seeks all that will serve it, and demands that humans subordinate themselves to it. The bottom line always takes priority over people. It is a ruthless tyrant. It seduces the public into living purely for its ends, while wearing away the fabric of society. I'm not a communist nor a socialist, I just believe in balance, and not allowing the corporation to rule the world.

[2moose]

There IS a 45 day review period. Only problem-CFIUS decided this deal did NOT need it. The UAE, on Monday I believe, VOLUNTEERED to submit to the 45 day review. But then they attached various stipulations to the review process, citing "business confidentiality".

 

guernseyguy

 

What has been posted from overseas is almost 180 degrees from what most critics are citing in the US. There are a lot of bills and amendments which could stall this deal indefinitely.

 

I just listened to Mayor Bloomberg on NY tv. He states that P&O, by NOT notifying NY/NJ Port Authority of pending change in managment/ownership BEFORE any papers were signed, violates the 30 year contract PO has with NY/NJ. NJ Governor Corzine is following the same line of thinking with his lawsuit.

i believe the offer of review was made by the ceo of the dubai corp on sunday morning on one of the news shows the ceo or chairman also said they would do whatever necessary to complete this deal!! but thats pr spinning at its best. My opinion george w is feathering his nest down the road!! i use tobe a strong supporter of george w until recently!!!

[phileas]

I have the answer to everyone's security worries. Make the USA a fortress. Ban all foreign businesses from the USA. Ban all foreign people. Send all non indigenous people to the country of origin, including those with ancestors from abroad.

 

Oops, the population of the USA seems to be almost nil, and there is no industry, no money just wide open spaces and lots of now worthless real estate! Also no fortress in history has lasted any long term attack.

 

Religion is used as an excuse for many things, but greed and envy are just as problematic. Without these things, war and terrorists would be a thing of the past.

 

Perhaps there is another solution. But in the real world, I think it may be a very long time before a proper working solution is found and actioned.

 

Phileas

Who hates paranoia biased political discussions:mad:

[greatam]

i believe the offer of review was made by the ceo of the dubai corp on sunday morning on one of the news shows the ceo or chairman also said they would do whatever necessary to complete this deal!! but thats pr spinning at its best. My opinion george w is feathering his nest down the road!! i use tobe a strong supporter of george w until recently!!!

 

The formal offer was made on Monday. I can't find the link right now, but the UAE then attached stipulations on Tuesday, IN WRITING, which nullify about 1/2 of the review being made public. So we are right back to where we started from-lower level people making decisions which stick and THEN letting everyone, including their bosses, know what's going on.

 

I certainly hear your feelings on the last line. Voted for W twice, been a strong supporter (just made a hefty contribution to meet and greet in Phoenix recently). I shake my head at all the stupidity that is going on in the ADMINISTRATION now. Hurricane Katrina, Cheney shooting (a non event), and now this debacle. When our President doesn't find out what's going on until JUST BEFORE, and I do mean just before, it becomes public, what in the heck is going on? Almost like he wants out of the job. I believe he still cares a lot, but has just realized that butting heads 24/7 is truly a futile propostion. I sure hope not.

[greatam]

I have the answer to everyone's security worries. Make the USA a fortress. Ban all foreign businesses from the USA. Ban all foreign people. Send all non indigenous people to the country of origin, including those with ancestors from abroad.

 

Oops, the population of the USA seems to be almost nil, and there is no industry, no money just wide open spaces and lots of now worthless real estate! Also no fortress in history has lasted any long term attack.

 

Religion is used as an excuse for many things, but greed and envy are just as problematic. Without these things, war and terrorists would be a thing of the past.

 

Perhaps there is another solution. But in the real world, I think it may be a very long time before a proper working solution is found and actioned.

 

Phileas

Who hates paranoia biased political discussions:mad:

 

 

This was kind of off the wall, wasn't it. No one is advocating anything like you propose.

 

This is NOT paranoia. There are true concerns and as someone who deals with the ports of NY, NJ, Philly and Baltimore every working day of the year, I am concerned.

 

I am counting on Customs, etc. to prevent something "bad" from entering the US.

 

After the containers hit the ground IN THE US is where I see the problems-when the actual port operator has total control. I will not get into the specifics, but believe me, they ARE there.

[guernseyguy]

Send all non indigenous people to the country of origin,

 

I agree! Send ALL the Immigrants home - and do it alphabetically, so in the UK it would go:

 

Angles

Britons

Celts

Danes

English

Frisians

Goths

Hungarians

Irish

Jutes

Korean

Latvians

Moroccans

Normans

Omanis

Poles

Qataris

Russians

Scots (and the Saxons)

Trinovantes

Uraguayans

Vikings

Wallis Islanders

Yemenis

.....and would the last Zimbabwean kindly turn out the lights!:D

 

Of course, where would they all go?

 

Meanwhile....back on topic....for those curious how this gets reported outside the US, here's how Aljazeera has reported it:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CD814693-F96E-486A-835B-990A90956A56.htm

 

Pretty 'Fair and Balanced' I'd say!

 

Peter

[guernseyguy]

There are true concerns and as someone who deals with the ports of NY, NJ, Philly and Baltimore every working day of the year, I am concerned.

 

greatam,

 

Port security is of course important and everyone has a right, and is right to be concerned. What I still don't understand is how change of ownership will affect that. The people in charge of Port Security are not going to change - nor is the responsibility - with your Government. To an outsider this looks like protectionism at best, racism at worst - something Americans themselves noted in the Fox News poll - with 70% reckoning that the fact that it was an Arab company having something to do with the row. Perhaps this is a 'lightning rod' for deeper held (and possibly better founded) concerns about your Government's grip on National Security.

 

Peter

[stowaway2k]

Perhaps this is a 'lightning rod' for deeper held (and possibly better founded) concerns about your Government's grip on National Security.

Peter

 

Bingo!

[phileas]

This was kind of off the wall, wasn't it. No one is advocating anything like you propose.

 

This is NOT paranoia. There are true concerns and as someone who deals with the ports of NY, NJ, Philly and Baltimore every working day of the year, I am concerned.

 

I am counting on Customs, etc. to prevent something "bad" from entering the US.

 

After the containers hit the ground IN THE US is where I see the problems-when the actual port operator has total control. I will not get into the specifics, but believe me, they ARE there.

 

Hi GA,

 

Re "being off the wall" it was just a little attempt at getting people to think a bit harder, and get a bit of perspective. OK and to get things going a bit as well!!

 

You needn't worry about people bringing things into the USA, you've already enough weapons etc there already to worry about! You have a whole variety of groups who have all sorts of arms from simple guns through explosives, to surface to air and surface to surface missiles and heaven only knows what else.

 

Also, don't forget that when it has suited the administration in power at the time, it is your country that has supported and supplied various terrorists over many years.

 

If the ports do not have sufficient controls in place if there is a change of ownership, then the controls are already useless. remember, its not so much who owns what, but who is carrying out the work and any checks that matters. Of course, why use a US port? The last time I looked at a map, the USA was not an island but had a fair few miles of land border over which just about anything may be brought. Drugs are being imported in vast quantities, so what makes you think other things cannot come in the same way? The world is a dangerous place. Unfortunately, made far more dangerous by homo sapiens!

 

I know this is a simplistic view, but I have neither the time nor inclination to discuss this fully, especially on what is meant to be a cruise forum! If you feel so strongly, shouldn't you be directing your protest in more productive directions?

 

Phileas

Who tries to keep things light, but who is struggling at the moment!:cool:

[phileas]

I agree! Send ALL the Immigrants home - and do it alphabetically, so in the UK it would go:

 

Angles

Britons

Celts

Danes

English

Frisians

Goths

Hungarians

Irish

Jutes

Korean

Latvians

Moroccans

Normans

Omanis

Poles

Qataris

Russians

Scots (and the Saxons)

Trinovantes

Uraguayans

Vikings

Wallis Islanders

Yemenis

.....and would the last Zimbabwean kindly turn out the lights!:D

 

Of course, where would they all go?

 

Meanwhile....back on topic....for those curious how this gets reported outside the US, here's how Aljazeera has reported it:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CD814693-F96E-486A-835B-990A90956A56.htm

 

Pretty 'Fair and Balanced' I'd say!

 

Peter

 

Hey Peter,

 

Don't forget the Italians. After all, that is where the Roman Empire began. They may have designs on starting another! They are probably a bigger threat than the potato eaters!

 

Phileas

Who certainly seems to have struck a sore spot with some people and also has some great Irish friends whom fortunately also have a great sense of humour!:rolleyes:

[greatam]

 

The people in charge of Port Security are not going to change - nor is the responsibility - with your Government.

 

Peter

 

INTERNAL port security will most definitely change. It is currently handled by the port operator. Stevedoring, shagging (moving trailers), and internal security is EXACTLY what DPW is buying. Cargo security INTO the US and external, physical plant security (the waterways and ships and crew) will be handled by the US government/Homeland Security/Coast Guard.

 

It is the internal security that I have a problem with.

[greatam]

Hi GA,

If you feel so strongly, shouldn't you be directing your protest in more productive directions?

 

Phileas

Who tries to keep things light, but who is struggling at the moment!:cool:

 

I sit on the food security council for private industry and will be in Washington DC next week to meet with various members of our council, our lobbyists and probably testify in one of the committees. Is that productive enough???

 

Don't want this thread to get nasty, but there is a lot that goes on in the ports, especially with imported food, which a large portion of the public and even segments of the government know NOTHING about. We are trying to enlighten them about specific dangers and when our industry feels that those problems are addressed, we will have no more complaints. But first the problems MUST be addressed.

[guernseyguy]

INTERNAL port security will most definitely change. It is currently handled by the port operator. Stevedoring, shagging (moving trailers), and internal security is EXACTLY what DPW is buying. Cargo security INTO the US and external, physical plant security (the waterways and ships and crew) will be handled by the US government/Homeland Security/Coast Guard.

 

It is the internal security that I have a problem with.

 

greatam, thanks for clarifying - but if it can't get INTO the port from outside the US (since US government/Homeland Security/Coast Guard are STILL handling that) - what is the problem? Or are you concerned about stuff getting into the Port from INSIDE the US?

 

Yours, rather confused,

 

Peter

[greatam]

Or are you concerned about stuff getting into the Port from INSIDE the US?

 

Yours, rather confused,

 

Peter

 

EXACTLY. DPW has not agreed to the protocols for vetting new employees that are currently in place. The protocols are NOT in writing currently. They are not in the management agreement with NY/NJ Port Authority. They are unwritten and a handshake. However, the protocols have been in place for almost 17 years and they were upgraded with all parties agreement and compliance after 911. DPW has not agreed to protocols allowing FBI and Interpol security checks for employees or allowing law enforcement (local or federal) to check employee records.

 

They also are not agreeing to only US or British employees handling internal security, as is now the case. This becomes a two edged sword-unions looking to protect American jobs and Al Queda affiliates inflitrating the "looser" than normal security checks. Who better to be a "port security guard" than a low level Al Queda affliate, with no known ties and not on any watch list? The US cannot keep employees of a foreign owned company out of the US, if they meet all the normal H1 (or similar) visa requirements.

 

Currently, the largest problem our company has at the ports is theft. A case of cheese here, a case of wine there, a month ago it was 3 barrels of Italian olives. They had to work for those, as they weigh 130 pounds each.

 

When we discover a theft, we report it to local law enforcement (NYPD or NJ State Police). If it is large enough in dollars (usually over $10,000) it gets reported to the FBI interstate theft task force. Law enforcement then contacts the hiring authority and get employment records, after they determine who was on duty and who had access to the container. Who had what seals, who signed seal record, etc. DPW has not agreed to allow law enforcement to check employee records if the employee is from overseas.

 

Now visualize someone putting stuff in a container, not taking it out. Most notably biologicals. I posted my very simple scenario before-

cheese/sarin/detonators/cruise ship. Yes, we have a right to be concerned.

 

Those containers are open to anyone that has the seals and access to the manifests. All large ports have 24 hour security guards and I'm sure it doesn't take a whole lot of education or experience to get one of those jobs. It only will take one person with bad intentions or "fuzzy thinking" to cause another disaster.

[2moose]

The formal offer was made on Monday. I can't find the link right now, but the UAE then attached stipulations on Tuesday, IN WRITING, which nullify about 1/2 of the review being made public. So we are right back to where we started from-lower level people making decisions which stick and THEN letting everyone, including their bosses, know what's going on.

 

I certainly hear your feelings on the last line. Voted for W twice, been a strong supporter (just made a hefty contribution to meet and greet in Phoenix recently). I shake my head at all the stupidity that is going on in the ADMINISTRATION now. Hurricane Katrina, Cheney shooting (a non event), and now this debacle. When our President doesn't find out what's going on until JUST BEFORE, and I do mean just before, it becomes public, what in the heck is going on? Almost like he wants out of the job. I believe he still cares a lot, but has just realized that butting heads 24/7 is truly a futile propostion. I sure hope not.

i watched the interview on sunday the ceo was willing to do any thing to get this deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[travel-to-go]

Wow! Where to start! (Oh yeah, that's right, I started this didn't I? <G>)

Molly B- I thought I rememberd hearing W didn't know til he read it in the paper! Now THAT's scary!
BTW, What do you do for a living? No big deal, just curoious, You said you travel a lot. and I think internationally. You oon't have to answer here. B/C is parrothead-av8r AT mindspring DOT com. Just curious.

Great Am, Do you know exactly what they WILL be in charge of at various ports? I mean, they won't own the ports. Will they be iin charge of getting ships in safely, tug boats and harbor pilots? logistics, getting cargo loaded/unloaded, handling cruise ship passenger check-in, What aspects of the ports are they likely to be in charge of? Will they be mostly cargo? Parking? crane work? passenger operations? Food, like you said? I really don't know what the extent of their "control" will be.

Peter- you are right. We, here in "the colonies" tend to be very ego-centric. We want everyone else to be like us. We go to foreign cities and expect them to speak English and have a Mc Donalds. So much for soaking up culture. Most Americans could not name three soccer clubs or who took (or even played in) the world cup last year. Or where the last volcano eruption was, or how many died in the mudlslides in Mexico last year from Hurricane -uh oh, I don't remember which one! See what I mean? And I actually pay attenion to who is running for pres in Peru, Ecuador, Brazil, etc. Speaking of which, if you don't mind, all of you over here who are not directly descendent of the original people here- I'm part Cherokee *Eastern Band"- btw, the Commodore's wife is from Western band Cherokees. She was not BORN in Hawaii! We were joking we may be related! Anyway, would y'all all mind leaving? And take your guns and firewater with you! Just leave us our beaver pelts. (Gee, I could trap the ones across the street in the pond. I've watched them swim under to enter their lodge!) Or how 'bout the racoon under my deck? But I digress. Thought they might be tasty with Phileas' pheasant!

Greatam, if one of those cases of cheese falls off a truck, let me know. Of course it's funny someone also stole a case of wine to go with it? <G>
I have strongly mixed emotions. I don't like the idea of judging someone because they happen to be from an Arab country And of course, we have ticked off half the world with our haughtiness! And BTW, Dubai capital has also just bought the Doncaster companies- makers of numerous defense industry parts, such as fan (turbine) blades for aircraft. Just down the road from me a piece.

Karie, Who wouldn't take the stolen cheese, but thinks she'll send the Colchester CT state police down there, as they recovered her bras she ordered for the cruise, but were stolen out of her mailbox. While we were gone, they did a sting and caught the person responsible. Unfortunately, they are being held as evidence. I'm not sure I want people to see evidence of what size I wear! <LOL>

[greatam]

[quote name='travel-to-go']

Great Am, Do you know exactly what they WILL be in charge of at various ports? I mean, they won't own the ports. Will they be iin charge of getting ships in safely, tug boats and harbor pilots? logistics, getting cargo loaded/unloaded, handling cruise ship passenger check-in, What aspects of the ports are they likely to be in charge of? Will they be mostly cargo? Parking? crane work? passenger operations? Food, like you said? I really don't know what the extent of their "control" will be.



Karie, Who wouldn't take the stolen cheese, but thinks she'll send the Colchester CT state police down there, as they recovered her bras she ordered for the cruise, but were stolen out of her mailbox. While we were gone, they did a sting and caught the person responsible. Unfortunately, they are being held as evidence. I'm not sure I want people to see evidence of what size I wear! <LOL>[/QUOTE]

Cargo handling (loading and unloading all containers and bulk freight and and moving trailers to and from ships)

Co-ordination between custom brokers, trucking companies, warehouses, etc.

All "in-bond" warehouses IN the facility ("in bond"-freight is riding under a custom brokers bond-usually done when freight is shipped into the US and then transhipped out of the US, although it is also used for freight which moves in the US)

Any cargo handling needed for cruise ships, including food and luggage at NON cruise only terminals, (which includes Bayonne). Food is usually handled by the food provisioner. However, the food industry does NOT know at this point in time whether this will change or NOT. Port companies have the right to provision themselves, but they usually don't mess with it, as it is a specilized field and there are companies who do nothing but. Those are the companies who contract with the cruise lines, NOT the port operators. But they could refuse the provisioner rights to loading the food on the ship-just have provisioner get it to the dock (ship) and then the port operator takes over. NOT likely, but could happen.

No passenger services like check-in, etc., although if DPW is the port operator for the cruise ship facility, they would be in charge of port facilities (the building, utilities, maintenance, etc). Currently, I don't believe any of the TRUE passenger ship terminals are included in the agreement. But no one knows yet about Red Hook. Red Hook has commercial AND the new cruise ship terminal. Supposedly, the agreement is just the container and bulk facilites. That is one thing the lawyers are looking into. And does it even include Red Hook or just the Brooklyn piers?? How about the Brooklyn Navy yard? Until someone gets a look at the ENTIRE agreement (other than CFIUS), industries are left in the dark.

There are a lot of questions that our industry needs answers to. A lot of things at the ports have been on handshake deals FOR YEARS. Remember, the East Coast piers were run by the mob for a lot of years and even with the graft and corruption, things ran smoothly. A lot of trust and cooperation has gone into running the ports. Can we still deal the same way or do we have a problem? We don't know. Hopefully, some of those answers will be forthcoming this week when I go to DC.

[travel-to-go]

Thanks for your insightful explanation, Greatam. I appreciate your position. You certainly know more than most of us about how this works, and the pros and cons. I am still not comfortable wholly with either position. But it does merit close attention, just as any other merger or acquistion does.
On a related yet unrelated note: (Don't worry, I'll bring it back around)
The two parent companies of my company announced today they will be "merging" Well, SBC, which just bought AT&T and took the AT&T brand name just announced they will buy Bell South. Primarily to have 100% control over my company, which is Cingular Wireless. This will get a lot more scrutiny, no doubt, than has the Dubai World Ports acquisition of the P&O port service compnies. The Bell System which was broken up in, I believe 1984 (I'm getting old- the memory isn't what it used to be! <G>) One of, by all accounts, the greatest corporations in the world, is almost back together. (Judge Green, who broke it up in the anti-trust settlement, must be positively spinning in his grave! All else that are left are Verizon- itself composed of several former "Baby Bells" and Quest) There are so many parallels to some of our discussions here. The Bell System was known as one of the oldeest and most innovative companies in the world, with more inventions and patents than you could shake a stick at. They had a lot to do with the world as we know it, including, I dare say, a lot of what makes our modern cruises ships tick. They invented (through Western Electric and Bell Labs) for instance, the transistor! Without which there would be no microchips, no computers as we know them today, and who knows what else. Their stocks were reliable and steady- Known as "widows and orphans funds" for their reliablility. They were benevolent employers, pioneering some of the workers' rights the we all take for granted today. My own parent company, SNET, which actually pre-dates the Bell system, and was long ago swallowed up by SBC, was the first in this country to offer paid sick leave, strongly supported the rights of minorities in the workplace long before it was fashionable or enforced. (I'm talking 20s and 30's!) Now? They're like any other "big business" I have been threatened with being surplused from my job 4 times in 5 years. I am highly technical, knowledgeable in my field, and very experienced (27 years) I work about 60 hours or more each week, yet someone, somewhere, to whom I am just a name and number thinks they can save money by getting rid of me. They see that I make more money than a lot of people with similar titles, who are not really "technicians" but are customer service people trained to use decision trees and don't, for the most part, know how things actually go together and make things work. (I'm the last left of my former group of eight of us who served only the state of Connecticut- And I get calls from all over the country, because I am really the last of my kind in the company, and the only one who does ALL that I do, and not just piecemeal- As soon as people find out I exist, I get called on as a resource "from the old days" that you just can't find any more, because upper management, in its infinite wisdom, decided it wasn't needed for 98% of problems. (and the hell with the other 2%- See any parallels here?) It's those 2% that find me, because not everything fits in neat little pigeonholes. And I hear the same things over and over. "Thank God,. I didn't know someone like you was still around! I'm keeping your number!", and from customers- "Thank God, someone who actually understands what I am talking and actuall gives me their call back number so I don't have to call back and start all over with another person from across the country in some call center- People treated me like I was nuts and said, 'Oh, that can't be happening-You must be doing something wrong!'" Again- sound like anything we've discussed here? Blame the customer, the unresponsiveness, lack of communication and lack of ability of employees to have to tools (and information) to do their jobs fully and see the big picture and have the time to do it right! ) And no matter how much all the kings horses and all the kings men work to put the Bell System back together, just like Cunard, it will never be the Bell System again

You can market Cunard's tradition of white glove service, with posters of young boys in red bell-boy hats, You can tout the food, the service, the tradition of afternoon tea, You can ask Captain Warwick to not retire when he originally intended, because it would be a great marketing ploy to have him not only be the only father son Captains of the QE2, but also the Captain and Commdore (By all accounts from these boards, a "fake" rank, bestowed at will, not an actual nautical ranking in the merchant marines or such) of both the QE2 and the QM2, then throw him away when his usefullness to the corporate PR mill is done, You can put out advertsiing with the look of 1950s papers, put up sepia-toned murals with historical line drawings and sell the books on the history and bring on the lecturers on the history, you can toot a rebuilt horn on the QM2 which came from the QM at the fake horn (the other two were not in working order, and missing many parts, so those on the QM now were fabricated whole, thought they may have copied the one working one, which cannibalized parts from the other two to make one whole horn) of the QM and call it historical meeting of the Marys, You can talk of service, call a cruise ship a liner, and a passenger a guest, and claim all sorts of stuff. But you cannot recreate for real., the golden age of travel, as described by my friend Ellen Williamson (RIP) when she wrote her book, "When We Went First Class" about the Pullman Porters, the Cunard ships (her aunt and uncle were on the Titanic) and other luxury travel.

Karie,
Who is feeling rather stressed and grumpy, and like an alien from another time right now. And hoping I will still have a job so I can book the labor day cruise with my brillliant trivia partner Maria! Even if it isn't the "Old Cunard" <sigh>

[dougnewmanatsea]

[quote name='greatam']Currently, I don't believe any of the TRUE passenger ship terminals are included in the agreement.[/quote]
P&O Ports run the New York Cruise Terminal.

If DPW are not (planning on) taking that over, who does it go to?

[2moose]

[quote name='guernseyguy']2moose, I wasn't suggesting you;) - just your source - but there is a difference between 'taken control' (original post) and 'observer' (most recent post).

Peter[/QUOTE]
You may be correct however THE FOX IS IN THE HEN HOUSE as we speak

[2moose]

[quote name='Host Doug']P&O Ports run the New York Cruise Terminal.

If DPW are not (planning on) taking that over, who does it go to?[/QUOTE]
how about the PortAuthories which is who i thougth was running the ports and are empowered to do so!!

[greatam]

[quote name='Host Doug']P&O Ports run the New York Cruise Terminal.

If DPW are not (planning on) taking that over, who does it go to?[/QUOTE]

Hi Doug,

Another one of those questions my industry does not have the answer for. And we need the answer.

The West side piers, as you well know, years ago handled cargo also, with the passenger part of the piers kind of an afterthought (they weren't THAT busy, especially in the 80's). That was the basis of the NY/NJ Port Authority operating agreement. And since the agreements are signed for 20-30 years at a time, as containers took over and the old cargo piers fell into disrepair and weren't used anymore, the agreements still stood. Now, no one knows until we see the ENTIRE sales agreement. Hopefully, I will have some answers by the end of the week.

Thanks once again for your EXCELLENT organization on the "Cavalcade of Cabins". Right at the top of my list for "best cruise experiences".

Gina

[guernseyguy]

The High Court in London has rejected Eller's appeal against the sale - basically exhausting their recourse in the UK:
[URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4780288.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4780288.stm[/URL]

Peter

[greatam]

This government stuff is REALLY boring and frustrating. There are 8 government lawyers meeting with 5 industry lawyers. "no, you can't see that page", "oh, we have to redact that paragraph", "sorry, we have to call someone about that".

What in the h*** did these guys (gov) think we came here to see??? They could have been prepared.

I am tired and grumpy and we are getting the runaround. Hope it gets better after lunch. At least I have my laptop with aircard, so I can surf the net and answer emails. I think I will volunteer to testify before every committee that is looking into this deal (about 8, I think). At least it would not be so boring.

OT-Anyone taken the train from Washington, DC to NYC? How long, how easy, can I buy a walk-up ticket??? I need to be at my NYC office (the South Bronx) by noon on Friday. I can have one of my drivers pick me up or take a car service to the office. The train goes into Penn Station, correct???
Just thought it might be an alternative to the plane.

[stowaway2k]

[quote name='greatam']
OT-Anyone taken the train from Washington, DC to NYC? How long, how easy, can I buy a walk-up ticket??? I need to be at my NYC office (the South Bronx) by noon on Friday. I can have one of my drivers pick me up or take a car service to the office. The train goes into Penn Station, correct???
Just thought it might be an alternative to the plane.[/quote]

Yes,
try [URL="http://www.amtrak.com"]www.amtrak.com[/URL]
Amtrak is the most convenient way for travel between DC and NYC. What with airport transfers and waiting, flying does not save time and is more trouble.
The train on this route can be crowded, but you can probably walk-up and purchase a ticket.
There are two services;
The regional service takes about 3hrs. 15min.
The Acela Express is quicker by about 30 min, but is more expensive.