Warwick news/rumor

[Cunard Cruiser]

Seachase I agree with you. Where is Mickey? When QM2 was being designed and built he had an obsession with the limelight and now when it really counts he is no where to be found.

[Seachase20]

Let us not forget, he is retiring LATER than originally planned as he DELAYED his retirement in order to command the QM2 in her introductory year. After the nonsense he had to put up with from the passengers (and quite probably HQ) on the delayed Rio leg, I for one would not be at all surprised if he is quite happy to go......and for those decrying the demise of 'Cunard' - of Ron Warwick's 36 year career with 'Cunard' (he joined in 1970) he has spent all of ONE year with 'Cunard' - since 1971 it has been owned by a Property company, an Engineering Company and finally, a Shipping Company. Which do we think best equiped to run ships?

 

Peter

You're quite right on all counts, Peter, except that until Peter Ratcliffe and Princess took over, the other owners either did nothing at all, or at least didn't make every effort to Princessify the ships, and change their character. Most senior officers are now Princess people, and those Cunard officers left have nothing but contempt for most of them and their abilities, so I hear. In this particular case, perhaps a shipping company has turned out to be the worse thing for Cunard.

[guernseyguy]

Cunard officers left have nothing but contempt for most of them and their abilities, so I hear. In this particular case, perhaps a shipping company has turned out to be the worse thing for Cunard.

 

Seachase20,

 

If this is true (and it is at variance from what I have heard from Officers) then it would be a very great pity. P&O/Princess is an older shipping company than Cunard and has at least as an illustrious heritage. It also has a LOT more recent experience of building and running ships. What we may be seeing is the natural resentment of a small (and failing) company being told what to do by a larger, more successful, expanding one. Such is life. The alternative for Cunard was oblivion and the scrappers for the QE2. I'll take what we've got over that.

 

Peter

[bobby1119]

The theme that runs through these threads and in other posts is the negative effect Princess is having on "Cunard Line" and Cunard's image. Princess's advertising/marketing/PR machine is a smug and cynical one. They are selling nothing more than an image "of the bygone days" that is quite far removed from those days gone by and from the reality (horror for some) of the Princess experience in reservations, life on board, customer relations, and, if true, the issues related to Commodore Warwick's "accelerated" retirement as described in other post topics. Queen Mary 2, which I have sailed in twice and have enjoyed and will do so again sometime, is really a prefabricated "Golden Age of the Liners" themepark. My comment is not meant to be mean-spirited, but realistic and especially bittersweet as we witness QE2 working out her final years with considerable grace and dignity. Even though the effects of Princess are taking their toll on Cunard, QE2 still retains much of what they are attempting to recreate on Queen Mary 2 and on Queen Victoria. As a long-time passenger, I am saddened by what has been happening. I feel fortunate, though, as so many others to still have the QE2 to remind me of what it was really all about.

[MollyBrown]

I would also note that it's not the "great American bull-in-a-china-shop corporation" that is responsible for his removal as Master, but Princess, who are doing their all to destroy a company far finer than anything they can claim! Where is Mickey Arison in all this, and why is he allowing this systematic destruction of the venerable Cunard Line!

 

Exactly. I don't know about other US corporations, but I have observed a general attitude and behavior in corporate America that mirrors Princess's actions. It is so frustrating to feel powerless while witnessing this undoing of Cunard, powerless in the face of a dominating force that doesn't give a damn about public opinion, or anyone's opinion, as long as they are serving their own interests---or think they are, because I don't believe there is great brilliance at work here much of the time.

[MollyBrown]

And where do you think Cunard would be now if they hadn't.

 

David.

 

Perhaps bought by another company with more respect for Cunard's values and traditions.

 

Just because Carnival/Princess rescued Cunard financially doesn't mean they have a right to dilute and dismantle it.

[MollyBrown]

The theme that runs through these threads and in other posts is the negative effect Princess is having on "Cunard Line" and Cunard's image. Princess's advertising/marketing/PR machine is a smug and cynical one. They are selling nothing more than an image "of the bygone days" that is quite far removed from those days gone by and from the reality (horror for some) of the Princess experience in reservations, life on board, customer relations, and, if true, the issues related to Commodore Warwick's "accelerated" retirement as described in other post topics. Queen Mary 2, which I have sailed in twice and have enjoyed and will do so again sometime, is really a prefabricated "Golden Age of the Liners" themepark. My comment is not meant to be mean-spirited, but realistic and especially bittersweet as we witness QE2 working out her final years with considerable grace and dignity. Even though the effects of Princess are taking their toll on Cunard, QE2 still retains much of what they are attempting to recreate on Queen Mary 2 and on Queen Victoria. As a long-time passenger, I am saddened by what has been happening. I feel fortunate, though, as so many others to still have the QE2 to remind me of what it was really all about.

 

Another "Disneyland" themepark, you're absloutely right.

 

As for QE2, I am so grateful and feel lucky to have "discovered" QE2 a few years ago and to have sailed on several of her final crossings, including her last.

[ocngypz]

You also have to remember, first.. that the entire industry has changed.

 

Second, the QE2 is a niche ship.........and the the exception of the upper categories, is priced mass market.

 

I love old ships.. even older than the QE2.....but they are going to go the way of the dodo bird.

 

FWIW, when she first arrived on the scene, QE2, IMHO was uglier than ugly when compared to QM and QE.

 

And whose money has kept the old girl afloat? Carnival Corp.

 

The two alternatives: the beach at Alang or a floating casino in Asia.

[guernseyguy]

Perhaps bought by another company with more respect for Cunard's values and traditions.

 

Molly, thats a nice idea, but realistically, who?

 

 

Just because Carnival/Princess rescued Cunard financially doesn't mean they have a right to dilute and dismantle it.

 

Actually they BOUGHT Cunard.....are you not entitled to do with your possessions what you wish? And if you are, why not Carnival? BTW, I don't for a second buy the 'Princess are trying to ruin Cunard' line...I suspect they are trying to update back of house services and deploy best practice across the fleet.....

 

Peter

[hardastarboard]

I feel really sorry for Ron Warwick here. If it was any other ship in the world, the whole thing would have happened, been investigated by the company, and finished. However, as Cunard have posted QM2 here there and everywhere since before it's 'birth', the worlds media have been waiting for any opportunity to jump on it. There have been many accidents at sea involving pax ships, yet none of them will ever get the same amount of publicity as QE2 or QM2 - the only thing that will get more publicity is loss of life, and even that goes quiet after a couple of weeks (has anyone heard any more about the Al Salam Boccacio 98??) And yet, the world still seems out to get the Commodore and Cunard. We have had RCCL ship's grounding, NCL ship's colliding, Carnival ships on fire, yet we hear no more about them. QE2 ran aground over a decade ago, and yet we are still reminded about it as if it were yesterday.

Just my thoughts on a very large subject area!!!

[harrodsfan]

It is always hard to loose a beloved Captain...

I was on the Royal Viking Sun when it was part of Cunard. Ironically the night that Carnival Bought Cunard was the night our ship hit a reef off of Sharm El Sheik Egypt. The Captain that night was "removed" and i believe he then went on to command the World of REsidensea. We loved him and he was fabulous handling the emergency..getting us to lifeboat stations and avoiding panic. We were told that when a major incident happens according to Maritime law the Captain has to be removed to investigate the incident and deem that he is fit for service...I dont' know if this is true or just pr but that is what we were told.

[travel-to-go]

The theme that runs through these threads and in other posts is the negative effect Princess is having on "Cunard Line" and Cunard's image. Princess's advertising/marketing/PR machine is a smug and cynical one. They are selling nothing more than an image "of the bygone days" that is quite far removed from those days gone by and from the reality (horror for some) of the Princess experience in reservations, life on board, customer relations, and, if true, the issues related to Commodore Warwick's "accelerated" retirement as described in other post topics. Queen Mary 2, which I have sailed in twice and have enjoyed and will do so again sometime, is really a prefabricated "Golden Age of the Liners" themepark. My comment is not meant to be mean-spirited, but realistic and especially bittersweet as we witness QE2 working out her final years with considerable grace and dignity. Even though the effects of Princess are taking their toll on Cunard, QE2 still retains much of what they are attempting to recreate on Queen Mary 2 and on Queen Victoria. As a long-time passenger, I am saddened by what has been happening. I feel fortunate, though, as so many others to still have the QE2 to remind me of what it was really all about.

 

There are some things I do not understand here about who is running things. Cunard is part of the Carnival Behemoth. So Mickey Arison- whom the Commodore was delighted to have take over the corporation from Trafalgar, is in charge. OTOH, Princess is "running" Cunard LTD. I still don't understand the difference between Princess and P&O. And yet, Carol Marlow is head of Cunard.

Just who IS running the asylum here?

And last year on HAL, I remember with great sadness what I deemed to be the passing of an era. HAL (Also an Arison "property") cut down their staff greatly. Wait staff and room staff are now handling three times the load they used to, even in concierge class suites. There is no way they can give you the relaxed, laid back, yet attentive service that we came to love. Who could be attentive when you have to go vacuum the next room, before it is time to start the evening chores. If you wren't ready when they came by (before you were up) you were like to get your room made up at 3:30, when they had time to get back to you. Not like previous cruises when the steward knew when you were likely to head to dinner or breakfast, or watched for you. They'd rush in, as soon as you left, and it would be sparkling when you got back. This time, we could leave and come back three times and the room still wasn't made up. (And we always hung the card on the door when we left to let him know the room was available to be made up.) And no, it wasn't the steward's fault. He was as solicitous and industrious as ever. He just didn't have time to linger to see when you might leave! He had to move on and come back, and couldn't see when you left. He was doing three times the rooms, and not always in the same vicinity! Dining room staff, I got the same impression. They'd serve bread (not leave it on the table) maybe you didn't have enough butter on the table, or ran out of bread. By the time you saw him again, it was too late. They'd moved on to the next thing. There was no time to give top-notch service. They were handling more tables than they used to. They'd finish their other how-many tables and it would be time to bring the next course. God forbid if you weren't ready! Or had waited to eat your salad because you wanted different dressing (Your salads this time were pre-dressed- no bringing around a server of three choices of dressing each night, like previous.)

 

No. these are the realities of competing in a modern cruising world where Mickey owns so many ships they are competing mainly with themselves. No one will pay what it would cost to get the service we all used to take for granted. If you want that nowadays, you take one of the ultra-exclusive high end small super-yachts. Cunard has become as mass-market cookie cutter (every room the same as every other, practically) as anyone else. In fact, I daresay, If I showed you a room and decor on a HAL ship, a Cunard QM2 an RCCL and a Carnival ship, without any identifying marks, you'd be hard pressed to tell me which line it is from.The dining rooms are becoming more alike, the theaters are becoming more alike. It's like there is one big warehouse they all pick from for furnishings and decor. (Well, except for the neon for Carnival) Actally I was SHOCKED to see QUEEN MARY 2 in bright neon on the side of the ship. My first impression? How tacky! All the glitz and poor taste of a Carnival ship!

 

Karie, there goes that waxy nostalgia again!

[ocngypz]

There are some things I do not understand here about who is running things. Cunard is part of the Carnival Behemoth. So Mickey Arison- whom the Commodore was delighted to have take over the corporation from Trafalgar, is in charge. OTOH, Princess is "running" Cunard LTD. I still don't understand the difference between Princess and P&O. And yet, Carol Marlow is head of Cunard.

Just who IS running the asylum here?

And last year on HAL, I remember with great sadness what I deemed to be the passing of an era. HAL (Also an Arison "property") cut down their staff greatly. Wait staff and room staff are now handling three times the load they used to, even in concierge class suites. There is no way they can give you the relaxed, laid back, yet attentive service that we came to love. Who could be attentive when you have to go vacuum the next room, before it is time to start the evening chores. If you wren't ready when they came by (before you were up) you were like to get your room made up at 3:30, when they had time to get back to you. Not like previous cruises when the steward knew when you were likely to head to dinner or breakfast, or watched for you. They'd rush in, as soon as you left, and it would be sparkling when you got back. This time, we could leave and come back three times and the room still wasn't made up. (And we always hung the card on the door when we left to let him know the room was available to be made up.) And no, it wasn't the steward's fault. He was as solicitous and industrious as ever. He just didn't have time to linger to see when you might leave! He had to move on and come back, and couldn't see when you left. He was doing three times the rooms, and not always in the same vicinity! Dining room staff, I got the same impression. They'd serve bread (not leave it on the table) maybe you didn't have enough butter on the table, or ran out of bread. By the time you saw him again, it was too late. They'd moved on to the next thing. There was no time to give top-notch service. They were handling more tables than they used to. They'd finish their other how-many tables and it would be time to bring the next course. God forbid if you weren't ready! Or had waited to eat your salad because you wanted different dressing (Your salads this time were pre-dressed- no bringing around a server of three choices of dressing each night, like previous.)

 

No. these are the realities of competing in a modern cruising world where Mickey owns so many ships they are competing mainly with themselves. No one will pay what it would cost to get the service we all used to take for granted. If you want that nowadays, you take one of the ultra-exclusive high end small super-yachts. Cunard has become as mass-market cookie cutter (every room the same as every other, practically) as anyone else. In fact, I daresay, If I showed you a room and decor on a HAL ship, a Cunard QM2 an RCCL and a Carnival ship, without any identifying marks, you'd be hard pressed to tell me which line it is from.The dining rooms are becoming more alike, the theaters are becoming more alike. It's like there is one big warehouse they all pick from for furnishings and decor. (Well, except for the neon for Carnival) Actally I was SHOCKED to see QUEEN MARY 2 in bright neon on the side of the ship. My first impression? How tacky! All the glitz and poor taste of a Carnival ship!

 

Karie, there goes that waxy nostalgia again!

 

 

It's really quite simple. Mickey is the chairman of Carnival Corporation.. think of it as an umbrella , if you will. Each cruiseline owned by Carnival Corp. has it's own President. Think of them as divisional presidents. By and large Corporate has been very good in granting each division their autonomy.

 

P&O (before the merger) was a huge corporation with various cruiselines, ferries, container ships, etc. The cruiseline division (P&O, Princess, Swan Hellenic, etc. )was sold to Carnival Corporation... and now Carnival Corp has dual listings on both the NY and London exchanges.

 

Now, Cunard/Princess. Well Cunard couldn't hold it's own as a division, so now it's become a hybrid division... ultimately reporting to the President of Princess. Everything back of the house was antiquated. To be successful, Cunard needed to adapt new business matrixes. Princess for years has had the best revenue management practices in the industry. They maximize revenue potential on each and every sailing.

 

As much as I love her, the QE2 is antiquated. She is what she is, and there just are not that many people willing to sail her. QM2.. she is a very difficult sell in the marketplace. Her perfect demographic.. are HAL Mariners.. though they are reluctant to sail because the ship is too big. Princess past pax....too stiff..........the luxury end of the market.......goodness.. they laugh.... to big and impersonal.. even in grill class.

 

Both Cunard ships are in individual niches.......and they are tough sells in the marketplace. My former Grill class passengers are now sailing with RSSC and Silverseas. Many former QE2 clients have gone on to their "Final embarkations". Today's ocean voyagers are different.

 

When plans for the QM2 were announced, the first thing I thought: they are never going to fill the ship without severe discounting. I was pooh-poohed by many..... but it looks like I was correct.

 

If and only if, Cunard can bring an aura of exclusivity and true premium/luxury service standards to the new QV, I can see the QV as being the lead ship in the fleet, although not the flagship. I don't expect to see her in regularly schedule transatlantic service, but rather the world explorer.. similar to HAL's Prisendam.

 

Speaking of HAL, you would never confused their staterooms now with any other cruiselines. Truly magnificant.. and in all categories. And service has been top notch... staterooms and throughout the ship.. dining room, too.

[travel-to-go]

It's really quite simple. Mickey is the chairman of Carnival Corporation.. think of it as an umbrella , if you will. Each cruiseline owned by Carnival Corp. has it's own President.

P&O (before the merger) was a huge corporation with various cruiselines, ferries, container ships, etc. The cruiseline division (P&O, Princess, Swan Hellenic, etc. )was sold to Carnival Corporation...

Now, Cunard/Princess. Well Cunard couldn't hold it's own as a division, so now it's become a hybrid division... ultimately reporting to the President of Princess.

 

So Carol is pres of Cunard, reports to (who?) as pres of Princess, reports to Mickey as CEO of Carnival Corp?

Speaking of HAL, you would never confused their staterooms now with any other cruiselines. Truly magnificant.. and in all categories. And service has been top notch... staterooms and throughout the ship.. dining room, too.

 

Have you been on HAL in the past year or so? Big changes! That is who I was referriing to with the three times as many cabins/tables. This was told to me by more than one person. I was in concierge class- deluxe verandah suite. We were set to sign up for inaugural or thereabouts on the Noordam. It would have been a medal cruise for us, when the December and January specials on QM2 came out and were too good to pass up! We hadn't cruised Cunard in nearly ten years. It was a tough choice, but we were also shocked at the changes in service levels at HAL, and heard the same from other longtime passengers! One night at dinner, we never even got drink service at all, other nights it was iffy, table service was a mess, and we could tell, not our waiter's fault. They were simply overworked, overextended! We felt bad for them. My parents,too, have been surprised at HAL's changes in service levels. Mind you, they are still good, just not what they were!

 

I'm open to differences in particular experiences, but from what I heard repeatedly from various inside and outside sources, there seems to be a commonalit to reports and experiences, including my own!

 

Karie,

Who never thought she'd hear herself say she missed the good old days!

 

P.S. I DO love the new upgrades in bedding and such on HAL. We were on the first such upgraded ship/class. WOW! I wanted to take that duvet home, and now you can actually buy the beds and bedding online!

[hardastarboard]

So Carol is pres of Cunard, reports to (who?) as pres of Princess, reports to Mickey as CEO of Carnival Corp?

 

Carol Marlow, new Cunard Managing Director, with Peter Ratcliffe of P&O Princess, but to confuse things even more, there is also David Dingle at Carnival UK, who I believe is higher up than Ratcliffe.....An asylum is quite a good word for the 'Management'.

On another note, it has been said that Cunard was 'antiquated'. When Princess charged in, they found quite a few things which were of a better standard than Princess, yet because Cunard were a smaller company they had to swallow up the Princess ideas. Thats life I suppose...

[ocngypz]

So Carol is pres of Cunard, reports to (who?) as pres of Princess, reports to Mickey as CEO of Carnival Corp?

 

 

Have you been on HAL in the past year or so? Big changes!

 

Yes, I have. Three times, as a matter of fact. And all were terrific.

[MollyBrown]

Molly, thats a nice idea, but realistically, who?

 

 

 

 

Actually they BOUGHT Cunard.....are you not entitled to do with your possessions what you wish? And if you are, why not Carnival? BTW, I don't for a second buy the 'Princess are trying to ruin Cunard' line...I suspect they are trying to update back of house services and deploy best practice across the fleet.....

 

Peter

 

If I bought a thoroughbred horse, would I have a right to beat it? Would I have a right to starve it to death?

 

A company involves people, and, despite what the corporate powers-that-be believe, the wishes of those people are important also.

 

Unfortunately, the only people corporations care about are the investors (didn't do me much good to be an investor, when the stock market tanked---no more financial freedom for the individual, and total enslavement to a mortgage for 30 years if you want a place to live...hmm...)

[MollyBrown]

So Carol is pres of Cunard, reports to (who?) as pres of Princess, reports to Mickey as CEO of Carnival Corp?

 

Carol Marlow, new Cunard Managing Director, with Peter Ratcliffe of P&O Princess, but to confuse things even more, there is also David Dingle at Carnival UK, who I believe is higher up than Ratcliffe.....An asylum is quite a good word for the 'Management'.

On another note, it has been said that Cunard was 'antiquated'. When Princess charged in, they found quite a few things which were of a better standard than Princess, yet because Cunard were a smaller company they had to swallow up the Princess ideas. Thats life I suppose...

 

And turn the Cunard tradition into a Disneyland theme park---in essence, a parody of British culture.

 

By the way, did anyone think it was odd that the entire cast of Sex and the City was invited to the reception of Charles and Cammila in New York City? Was that naivete, or to show that they consider the British Royal Family to be nothing more than tacky celebrities? I thought it was tasteless.

[patwell]

From what I've read here it seems an awful lot of Brits are fans of QM2 and sail her frequently. I don't remember reading that any of them consider her a parody of "British culture". The world is evolving and perceptions changing...as my son tells me, "deal with it"...not bad advice.

 

Perhaps Charles and Camilla are fans of Sex and the City and asked to meet them. I would imagine that any guest list is previewed for suitability prior to an event. And no....I didn't think it was tasteless...they are all good actresses aside from their success with that show. It might be helpful to lighten up a bit here......and what's this got to do with this thread topic anyway???? Penny

[guernseyguy]

Race Horses...Disney, Coroprate Greed...Capitalism.....oh yes - this thread is about the alleged treatment of Ron Warwick.......so returning to the topic - here's some shocking revelations from USA Today:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2006-03-06-qm2-hawaii_x.htm

 

I was shocked and disgusted to read that "Commodore Ronald Warwick said it has been an honor to guide Cunard Line's flagship for the final two years of his three-decade maritime career"

 

Its a Disgrace! Have these people no principles! I am appalled. Western civilization as we know it is ending.......

 

Peter

[Jeanne S]

 

The Commodore returned to the ship when we were in Costa Rica, but we did not see him or hear from him during that time.

 

It is a sad state of affairs, and I met a number of people on the ship who had been there since NY and were highly critical of the Commodore.

 

QUOTE]

 

What was said about Commodore by those on your sailing?

[Bollinge]

I have very few principles in life.

 

One, however is: "If I don't know, I don't say"

 

So has Ron Warwick been relieved of his command of QM2, prior to his scheduled retirement date or not?

 

Please respond, all of you who have posted comments to that effect.

[dougnewmanatsea]

there is also David Dingle at Carnival UK, who I believe is higher up than Ratcliffe.....

No, Peter Ratcliffe is David Dingle's boss.

 

Ratcliffe reports directly to Micky Arison.

 

I think Dingle and Marlow would be at the same level on the Carnival organizational chart.

 

Yes, I have. Three times, as a matter of fact. And all were terrific.

Well, in the past year I was only lucky enough to take one HAL cruise but I must say it was really superb from start to finish... One of the best cruises I have taken on any line. I am not a very easy person to impress, but I was impressed ;) .

 

I agree with Karie that there have been big changes on HAL recently but as far as I am concerned they've been for the better. On my most recent cruise with HAL I noted marked improvements in virtually every area over the cruise I had taken on HAL two years before. Food, service, condition of the ship... Everything was better.

 

HAL acknowledged that during the run-up to and introduction of the Vista-class ships there had been a bit of a slide in quality and in 2004-2005 they made a lot of big changes to address this. The physical improvements of the Signature of Excellence programme (including those wonderful beds) were just a part of this effort which also included significant management changes among other things... And if my cruise this past August was any indication, they have really succeeded.

[Seachase20]

I have very few principles in life.

 

One, however is: "If I don't know, I don't say"

 

So has Ron Warwick been relieved of his command of QM2, prior to his scheduled retirement date or not?

 

Please respond, all of you who have posted comments to that effect.

 

Yes, I'm afraid he has.

[travel-to-go]

And if my cruise this past August was any indication, they have really succeeded.

 

Well, I hope you are right, Doug. We exspecially felt bad for the crew having to deal with that~

 

And Definitely wanted to take those beds home with us!

They were so marvelous!

 

Karie,

Who needs another cruise NOW!