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MollyBrown

By MollyBrown,
in Cunard Line

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travel-to-go

travel-to-go

Posted
Posted
I've only been on these boards for a couple of months, but it hasn't taken that long to read travel-to-go's (Karie's) posts and work out that she is usually right, interesting, non-confrontational and, most importantly, has a sense of humour.

 

It may be a hard concept to grasp, but she was joking.

 

Mary

 

Mary,

Thank you, The people on this board are so gracious, Despite my obvious brashness, it still makes me blush (and grin a bit) when I get compliements. As an old cartoon dog I once knew always said, I call 'em as I see 'em!

As for the QUOTE (sorry, I should have put it in quotes, Molly, Mybad)

I thought it was rather quaint and somewhat hysterical (in a reserved, grill-class sort of, tittering behind-the-oh-so-proper-gloves way:rolleyes:) that the New York Post, which is not exactly known for being a high class paper, I think- the term yellow journalism comes to mind? Along the lines of- is it the Star in England that has the buxom young ladies always on page 2? Not exactly the paper of choice for the erudite crowd- started their article with that paragraph. Those were their words, not mine! My laugh was, gee- did some one (no one in particular- a composite of many) from this board write that article? I just thought it was rather funny!

And of course we've spent the last 5 or 6 months worrying about the indiginity and affrontage (Is that a word?-well, I just made it up! I like it! and since I made it up, no one can say it is wrong! but you get my drift!) and got our collective selves all worked up about having such an elegant ship be relegated to the second-class citizenry of having to pull up to that WORKING CLASS CARGO PORT AREA WHERE DRUG DEALERS AND PROSTITUTES HANG OUT AND CARS GET TORCHED AND LEFT TO BOTHER THE STREET CLEANING CREWS- HORRORS! The indiginity of it all, and to a QUEEN, no less!

What most people know about Brooklyn is from bad sterotypical sitcoms going for the cheap laugh and 1950's "On the Waterfront." which showed a gritty dank, dark working cargo port area, with violence and people who give unionism a bad name. But this is 55 years hence! Brooklyn is less a working town and becoming more of a bedroom town, from what I can tell. There is new life, with new art galleries, a renaissance of foodie places, some chichi townhouses going in, and that magnet to all who shop trendy and "just so," an Ikea!

 

So here we are, looking down our noses at <gasp> BROOKlyn for the past half a year, and lo and behold, they gave us some of our own hautiness (reverse hautiness, I suppose) right back at us! It was as if they had been listening in on our whining and caviling and carping about the horrors of docking in BROOKlyn! and made a preemptive strike, tweaking us for being snobs!

 

Molly, sincerely, I really do think you are a bit too sensitive in this matter. I say that most sincerely and with love in my heart. A reaction this strong and continued leads me to think that there is some hurt there somewhere, whether due to past treatement or perceptions, or struggles to succeed and be thought of as successful in a world where it is not always easy to be a strong confident businesswoman traveling alone. I am a maverick in my world, and have earned my stripes (and the bruises that came with them) one step, one begrudging admirer at a time. My job is constantly on the line, and I fight the good-ol-boys network every day. Mostly, I just keep my head high and do my job to the best of my ability. I'm not afarid to say I don't know, but I'll find out if I can, and not afraid to kiss up a little to those more knowledgeable in an attempt to get them to share that knowledge. And once I have it, I remember that I did not get here alone, and try to help those behind (and beside) me. I am grateful for those things I have, work hard for what I desire and strive towards, and never forget where I came from. Life has, in some ways, been particularly hard for me. So I have learned (thorugh much agony and self-doubt) to look forward and keep a positive eye open. I give people the beneift of the doubt. Few people are truly mean or nasty. They are usually reacting to something within themselves, and we all should remember that when we judge others harshly. I have skeletons in my closet which are not particularly well-dressed (and dumb as five legged frogs- they'd probably wear jeans AND a black and white denim hat to the Ascot ball!) (Did you know that frogs are often harbingers of deadly pollution, showing deformities and extra limbs before anyone realizes there is a problem? Not so dumb, after all, I guess!)

 

Anyway- sorry to go on so (I do tend to get wordy (who, ME?!?)

 

Please take our witty ripostes with a grain of (pure natural sea) salt. It's easy to say something that appears offensive when you are not looking someone in the eye and seeing their hurt, We can be anyone we make ourselves out to be on these boards, until we meet in person. Most of us are who we are. Some of us put on airs, either because its fun, (like dressing in your mommie's high heels when little or playing princess-who among us hasn't done that- Okay guys, admit it! <LOL>) HEY! IT's A JOKE! A BENNY HILL (oops low class) or DAME EDNA KIND OF THING! or maybe they are reacting to poor self-esteem and building themselves up, or maybe they really feel that way. Most do not. I've been delighted with the (many, I think) people I have actually met live from these boards! Molly, I'd love to meet you some day I think I would admire you, your gumption and your tenacity. Those are traits I do so admire. Spirit! It can carry us through. Don't worry so much about appearance or who claims to be what or claims anyone else is. It really doesn't mean a dandlion's whisper in the wind! Honest. Just be yourself and proud of who you are. The food is grand in the Britannia as is the service, company, and decor! (and passenger's clothing- not that I notice! <G>) It sure beats Mc Donalds!

 

Karie, who remembers seeing the Unsinkable Molly Brown at the drive-in, but has never seen the Titanic

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MollyBrown

MollyBrown

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Molly, sincerely, I really do think you are a bit too sensitive in this matter. I say that most sincerely and with love in my heart. A reaction this strong and continued leads me to think that there is some hurt there somewhere, whether due to past treatement or perceptions, or struggles to succeed and be thought of as successful in a world where it is not always easy to be a strong confident businesswoman traveling alone. I am a maverick in my world, and have earned my stripes (and the bruises that came with them) one step, one begrudging admirer at a time. My job is constantly on the line, and I fight the good-ol-boys network every day. Mostly, I just keep my head high and do my job to the best of my ability. I'm not afarid to say I don't know, but I'll find out if I can, and not afraid to kiss up a little to those more knowledgeable in an attempt to get them to share that knowledge. And once I have it, I remember that I did not get here alone, and try to help those behind (and beside) me. I am grateful for those things I have, work hard for what I desire and strive towards, and never forget where I came from. Life has, in some ways, been particularly hard for me. So I have learned (thorugh much agony and self-doubt) to look forward and keep a positive eye open. I give people the beneift of the doubt. Few people are truly mean or nasty. They are usually reacting to something within themselves, and we all should remember that when we judge others harshly. I have skeletons in my closet which are not particularly well-dressed (and dumb as five legged frogs- they'd probably wear jeans AND a black and white denim hat to the Ascot ball!) (Did you know that frogs are often harbingers of deadly pollution, showing deformities and extra limbs before anyone realizes there is a problem? Not so dumb, after all, I guess!)

 

 

You seem to be a kind, intelligent person. Sure, like everyone, I've had my difficult experiences in the past, perhaps some harsher than most. At the same time, my standard of living, materially, growing up was very high, and therefore, a lot to live up to. Or perhaps the memeory of it, and not being able to "go home again", is just very painful. Then again, one can always generate more money and recreate it eventually if one is determined to do so.

 

I am also a "feminist" (without the stigma, just the reality of plain and simple human rights), and have been from birth. It is a struggle to be an independent strong woman in this world, because there are many who seem to think independence and power are only rightfully male traits. I can also certainly sympathize with what you say about being a professional woman in today's world.

 

But the real reason I was upset by this whole topic was because I don't think it is kind to put other people down, no matter who you are talking about. It is not kind nor is it gentlemanly (or -womanly) to imply anyone or any group is "lowly", even in jest.

 

I feel humans may have a kind "Lord of the Flies" tendency, and because political correctness does not permit certain behaviors now, will look for an "allowed" opportunity to put another or others down. Alfred Adler believed that it is human beings' primary motivation to feel superior to others. One-upmanship and putting others down to feel better about one's self are a little too common.

 

That is why I think some cultures that emphasize politenes and courtesy, such as France or Japan (used to be the UK, but I've heard rudeness is becoming rampant), work better to keep an atmosphere of calm, kindness, and civilized refinement.

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stowaway2k

stowaway2k

Posted
Posted
Do you mean you have always sailed steerage or you have not sailed steerage? The double negatives have me confused. I have never not been so perplexed. Steer me in the right direction please.

 

I am a victim of the California public (U.S. definition) schools. :(

 

I have always sailed steerage. ;)

(according to Webster's...)

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KenC

KenC

Posted
Posted
"steerage"

a section in a passenger ship for passengers paying the lowest fares

 

According to Webster's, I have never not sailed steerage! :rolleyes:

 

According to the Oxford Dictionary ..... 'the accommodation to which lower class passengers are restricted in ship'

 

Ken

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guernseyguy

guernseyguy

Posted
Posted
According to the Oxford Dictionary ..... 'the accommodation to which lower class passengers are restricted in ship Ken

 

"steerage" a section in a passenger ship for passengers paying the lowest fares According to Webster's,

 

Typical, the Brits focus on class, the Yanks on money!;)

 

Peter

 

PS - The S.O.D. now defines steerage as 'The part of the ship allocated to passengers travelling at the cheapest rate' - and notes that the term is archaic......so perhaps the Brits are becoming more £££ focussed too.......

 

PPS.....where do the Trolls travel......;)

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phileas

phileas

Posted
Posted
I have skeletons in my closet which are not particularly well-dressed (and dumb as five legged frogs- they'd probably wear jeans AND a black and white denim hat to the Ascot ball!) (Did you know that frogs are often harbingers of deadly pollution, showing deformities and extra limbs before anyone realizes there is a problem? Not so dumb, after all, I guess!)

 

Although we may prefer travelling steerage (oops!), we five legged frogs can actually be quite erudite! I am glad that you noticed our efforts re pollution etc.!

 

Phileas

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travel-to-go

travel-to-go

Posted
Posted

At the same time, my standard of living, materially, growing up was very high, and therefore, a lot to live up to. Or perhaps the memeory of it, and not being able to "go home again", is just very painful. Then again, one can always generate more money and recreate it eventually if one is determined to do so.

 

But the real reason I was upset by this whole topic was because I don't think it is kind to put other people down, no matter who you are talking about. It is not kind nor is it gentlemanly (or -womanly) to imply anyone or any group is "lowly", even in jest.

 

I feel humans may have a kind "Lord of the Flies" tendency, and because political correctness does not permit certain behaviors now, will look for an "allowed" opportunity to put another or others down. Alfred Adler believed that it is human beings' primary motivation to feel superior to others. One-upmanship and putting others down to feel better about one's self are a little too common.

 

Molly, You are probably right in regards to human's tendency to find someone lower than themselves to hold themselves up. It is too common a trait. I refuse to listen to radio shows or watch TV that does these things- Pitting people against each other in ways that cause them to willingly humilitiate themselves for money or fame. Worse, I cannot understand the people who would willingly do those things! It takes me back to the Ringo Starr thing- Money- and what people would do to get it- (It was in one of the movies) In fact, I generally do not watch Televsion at all. I find it too "lowest common denominator"

 

Politically acceptible? Take weight- You all know I am plus sized. Well, it seems fat is the new acceptible joke- acceptible to put people down, make fun of them, treat them as less than humans. I had hopes that the "Obesity epidemic" would ease that some. (and get some decent looking clothing out there!) Instead, there seems to be a race to see who can hate the fatties and deride and berate the obese first! I'm not fat because I up and decided to eat myself into a coma and become obese just for the hell of it! In fact, I was underweight (due to Crohn's disease) when the downhill (or is it uphill!) slide started. (Thank you, prednisone!) and I have been recently putting off seeing a doctor about something for weeks,because I knew he would put me on prednisone again (and he did- yesterday) which would only damage my already non-existant metabolism more. <sigh>

 

but hey! I am getting on my soapbox about one of my sore spots.

I just have to deal with my issues as best I can, and not pay attention to what others think .Only I know (I think) my own truth.

 

But you are right about human nature for the great part. I suppose it is one reason we like Cunard. Because there is less of that raunchy put-down type of humor like morning radio DJs seem to love. Like the Howard Stern types. (BTW, Marc's brother worked with him, and taught him the boards, when he started in radio, In Hartford CT (WCCC) in the 70s. I hated him then, when he's was a nobody and I refuse to listen to him now. Marc's brother left the radio biz and is now a carpenter.) And yes, it is true, as some replied, that no matter where you go in this world there are people who will be rude to one class (and I don't mean as in classism, but type) of person or another. Yes, even the Japanese, known for allowing face-saving can be extremely rude. It is everywhere.

 

As for trying to replicate what you grew up with? Why try! Create your own standards. Don't try to adopt what you thought was good, but instead what you actually enjoy. It has been said many times, a good wine is one you enjoy. It doesn't matter if it came from the "the right vineyard, with the right grapes from the south or north of France" or Boone's Farm (American soda-pop wine from the late 60s which has made a recent resurgence. It is what many American teenagers got their first bad sugary drunk on) So make your own path, establish your own standards. I used to ask my Dad if he wanted to go back "home" to Tennessee, where we are originally from, when he retired. I never used to understand his answer, but I do now. He said, "Karie, home is where you live; you make it home"

I don't have to live up to anyne else's standards. I have my own. And I've found that I do not agree with some of what my parents thought was good and right. So I live with what *I* think is good and right!

 

 

Still, I think the term steerage has taken on too much (Pardon the term) baggage. I have never intended it as a put-down, nor have I ever really perceived it as a put-down. Others' experiences may differ. Obviously, for some reason, your experience has made you equate that with a put-down. It is not thus for me. Of course, while many on this board from the left side of the pond had ancestors who travelled here by one class on a boat or another, many of mine were here to meet the boat! (Okay, I also have some English, Dutch, Scottish, Irish, possibly Welsh, and who-knows-what else in me! But at least some of my ancestors were probably Cherokee!)

hey, speaking of the dreaded "S" word., You should see how the Pilgrims travelled. I have been to Pilgrim Rock and the Mayflower replica with the people acting in character. Now that was truly steerage. You slept down near the rudder of the ship (How steerage got its name). Dank, and with vermin, no light, horrible smelling, miserable, (remember there was no really fresh water for bathing on board) So all of thise who proudly trace their lineage to the Mayflower as is common in old yankee families, did not ride in "first class" as there was no first class.I do truly think that most people do not define the term the with the same negative connotations as you, Many are proud of ancestors who came over here quite poor and struggled and made something of themselves. And of course,it does tend to take on a life of its own. Just don't sweat it. No one is literally trying to put anyone down, unless it is to make fun of folks who somehow think they are better than others. Those who place themselves above others will always be met with attempts to knock them off their high horses. So quite the opposite is likely peoples' feelings here. I think most people do not in any way feel that "lower class accomodations" are a measure of the man (or woman) Everyone has their own reasons for what they do. I would think myself an idiot to spend $50.000 or more for a status symbol luxury car, when a $20,000 one more than meets my needs. I can use that 30K for a lot of other things, and still ride in comfort (and probably spend less on gas) Others may HAVE to have that car. I have things I will spend money on that others might think me quite nuts for! Each to his own.

I guess what I am saying is, I probably will thoughtlessly continue to use the term, it does not apparently mean the same to me as it does to you, and I don't intend it in a mean-spirited manner. However, I will try to be sensitive that others may feel differently about the use. I don't wave the confederate flag. It means something different to me, but I recognize it symbolizes something abhorent to many. Still, I may make mistakes or slip. Forgive me in advance. But take it in the spirit intended (and yes, I do sometimes act like a twit and do or say things I am ashamed of) but please don't take it personally in a mean way. I think many folks are saying things to get a reaction, a cheap laugh. (me too!) It doesn't pay to be highly reactive. Others are exasperated that someone takes offense where none was intended. Just as it is frustrating for you that folks don't get what you are trying to say, it is frustrating for others that perhaps you aren't hearing what they are trying to say.

So maybe we all just agree to disagree on this one and mostly, ignore it.

 

Karie,

who (it has been said) talks too much

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Jeanne S

Jeanne S

Posted
Posted
I gather from another thread that there is a string quartet that plays in the Britannia during dinner.

 

On the assumption that this is NOT the case in the Grills, then that would be reason alone not to use the Britannia, assuming the option of the grills is realistic.

 

The Quartet alternates with the Harpist.

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Jeanne S

Jeanne S

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Posted

 

Did you know that in her day Margaret Brown was NEVER known as 'Molly Brown' - that was an invention well after she died, and another innaccuracy (among the many) of James Cameron's Titanic - in fact the term traces to the play, then Debbie Reynolds movie.....of 1964

 

I read the book entitled: Molly Brown, Unraveling the Myth, a biography of Margaret Tobin Brown. Her nickname was definately not Molly but Maggie, they usual nickanme for Margaret.

 

 

In April of 1912, while on an extended trip in Europe with her daughter Helen, Margaret received word her grandson, was very ill which caused her to shorten her trip and return to the United States, so she booked the first available ship.

 

She was a well known socialite and friend of JJ Astor, not the social climber portrayed in that ridiculous movie.

 

I quote from the book:

 

"The Carpathia docked at New York's pier 54 where it was met by a crowd of 30,000 people. Margaret was surrounded by reporters and was asked to what she attributed her survival. "Typical Brown luck," she replied. "We're unsinkable."

 

Upon hearing that her grandson had recovered, Margaret decided to stay in New York. She continued the work begun on the ship and became president of the survivors committee. The Titanic disaster made Margaret a national hero. By the time she arrived back in Denver, the media was clamoring to interview the "Unsinkable Mrs. Brown."

 

She was not referred to as Molly, you are right - it was Hollywood!

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Jeanne S

Jeanne S

Posted
Posted
Do either play in the Queens Grill? Can I avoid the quartet and/or harpist by buying my way out of steerage? ;)

 

I would imagine they might alternate, although I can never remember any music in the Princess Grill on QE2.

 

They are wonderful entertainment.

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Kindlychap

Kindlychap

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Posted
I would imagine they might alternate, although I can never remember any music in the Princess Grill on QE2.

 

They are wonderful entertainment.

 

I know that I'm safe in the Queens Grill on QE2.

 

But sooner or later we're likely to see what the Mary is like. And I can't imagine anything worse than sitting near a quartet or harpist for six nights.

 

Hence my query about the Queens Grill on QM2. Someone must have been in the QM2 Queens Grill?????

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