Did NCL make a big mistake using the NCLA brand

[shoreguy]

I was going to add this to the end of another thread but thought it was a good subject to debate on it's own.

 

 

I think the biggest mistake NCL made is the branding of the US Flagged ships. No matter how good things get (and we all hope they do) the experience will always be different on these ships.

 

All the bumps in this bold effort are in my view hurting the whole brand. How many have posted here after a poor experience on a NCLA ship and stated flat out they will never cruise NCL again not NCLA. The average person sees no difference. They are in fact two very different products.

 

This would be like Carnival branding all the Costa ships Cunard. I have to believe the problems in HI are hurting NCL in both pockets.

 

Customer satisfaction is based largely on expectations. If they are met all is good. Customers do not get on EZ Cruise expecting Seaborne.

 

They don't have to rely on Freestyle to differential since they are the only fleet in town. Freestyle is far more labor intensive. Requires greater complexity in the galley to get food out on a continuous basis.

 

They could still offer all the dining options but set seating in the main dinning room if this could help improve the speed of service.

 

Forget all the pomp of cruising, market it as Island Casual Cruising - shorts are fine anytime any place. "Hang loose as you move with our US crew from one Island Paradise to the other"

 

Like any product they need to look at the raw material available (labor) and determine the best use of them in build a product. You can not build a stone house from wood.

 

I was thinking - American Casual Cruise line - ACCL

[smarterman64]

The problem is that Jones Act, saying that ships have to dock foreignly which extends the time a cruise must be or decreases port time. As hawaii is a beautiful state, it requires a lot more, which NCLA has been able to provide. What i'm sure has happened with NCLA is that the legislators from Hawaii and NCLA have certainly buddied up and will keep that law in tact for a while to protect NCLA as i recall hearing of a deal, but currently NCLA is the only company that can do a 7 day with very port intensive stays which not only brightens to most people but also is 7 days instead of 10/11 day wind sailings or 2 weeks out of Los Angeles or San Diego.

So the question is, what if the Jones Act (at least that's what i think it is) is repealed, what happens then? well.... Then we have canada primarily loosing money on alaskan cruises. but it'd hurt NCLA the most because they have year round cruises in hawaii with american branded vessels.

My opinion is since hawaii is so port intesnive, you shouldn't even be on the ship that much, only to sleep and eat really.

[dwrist]

"I was thinking - American Casual Cruise line - ACCL" quote from shoreguy

 

ACLU= American Cruise Line Union:rolleyes:

[ute_fan]

You bring up some very good points, as usual. I've been thinking the same thing -- NCL and NCLA are 2 different lines, but the average consumer isn't going to understand that. I think there needs to be more differentiation -- including a separate website for NCLA and very possibly a different name. Those of us who spend time frequenting these boards may understand the difference, but the majority of the passengers won't. Hopefully things will work out, but if they don't, I agree that NCLA may drag NCL down.

[honestguy]

Shoreguy: I think it is hurting NCL, but how bad is up for debate. Fact is other than these last few cruises on board the Aloha(virus issues) close to 80% leave happy. Now it might be lower on board the Hawaii, but in a month or two, it will be improved as well. I don't know if NCL is that unhappy with the results, fact is the aloha has been running for 2 years now, and not much has changed since it's debut.

 

I still think the problem is in the retention of workers. Does everybody really believe that every international crew member that signs on a cruise ship is a hard worker, and sticks with it? Well I don't. I think the retention is two fold. First off alot of people lose their jobs becuase of the Alcohol policy on board. the limit is set by the coast guard, and is .04. Blow over this and your gone. Put this limit in effect on board international ships, and you will start losing good workers as well. Second part is NCL'S upper managment. NCL remains the worst ran company I've worked for. It was the main reason I did not go back. That reason was the same for my roommate on board, and many of my friends who completed their one contract and went home. If most of the staff was lazy then they wouldn't complete their contract, but quit soon fter reaching the ship. This just isn't the case. Oh and all these reports of 30 40 people quiting in one week, it just don't happen. You get 5 people quiting and bam its 50. I know I've been there.

[DaisyL]

Shoreguy, I agree with you totally. I have cruised on the NCL Dawn three times and absolutely love freestyle cruising especially when it applies to dining. We will be on the PoAm in Oct. and really expect the same excellent service and meals, in the dining rooms.

 

After reading all the threads so far, I realize the dining service may not be up to par with the Dawn. I think most people will take this negative opinion of a NCLA ship and NOT cruise on a NCL ship because of it.

 

They really need to change their dining strategy on the NCLA ships to conform with the port intensive itinerary and very casual lifestyle of a Hawaiian cruise.

 

Since the cruises are 7 nights, maybe they can offer the same menu every night with 1 or 2 specials changing daily.... Like they do for breakfast. Unfortuantely they may need to discontinue lobster night, which seems to be the worst night for waiting time.

 

If they went to more traditional dining times in the dining rooms but maintain casual dining, I certainly would not mind. We have never, on any cruise, dined in the buffet for dinner and don't intend to, on the PoAm also.

 

Hopefully some changes will take place before Oct. and I'll be sure to review after that cruise.

 

One thing's for sure, it will probably not deter us from cruising NCL out of NYC .... the best!

[dwrist]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/04/AR2006070401119.html?referrer=email&referrer=email&referrer=email

 

Caught this and thought interesting.

[honestguy]

 

They really need to change their dining strategy on the NCLA ships to conform with the port intensive itinerary and very casual lifestyle of a Hawaiian cruise.

 

Since the cruises are 7 nights, maybe they can offer the same menu every night with 1 or 2 specials changing daily.... Like they do for breakfast. Unfortuantely they may need to discontinue lobster night, which seems to be the worst night for waiting time.

 

This is what they did when the aloha first came out, and most people hated it so they went with the traditional cruise menu style you have on all ship's with it changing nightly

[shoreguy]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/04/AR2006070401119.html?referrer=email&referrer=email&referrer=email

 

Caught this and thought interesting.

 

Think this statement hits home here:rolleyes:

 

"As the Internet becomes more ad-supported, it's questionable if consumers and users will have any real clout," he said. "Will a Fortune 500 company hear the sound of one angry blogger in the digital forest?"

[shoreguy]

This is what they did when the aloha first came out, and most people hated it so they went with the traditional cruise menu style you have on all ship's with it changing nightly

 

I agree with almost everything you post. I was thinking it is much easier to get a diverse menu out with set seating times. After a few months there are clear trends of the percentage of each item that is ordered when. Speeds up the kitchen making the wait staff appear more responsive.

 

Passengers only expect Freestyle because that is now part of the brand.

 

I had folks from my office on the POAL "virus cruise" they were on of the 80%+ that were satisfied with their cruise.

 

If any ship in the NCL fleet only had an 80% sat. rating the Hotel Director would be fired.

 

I go back to my original position - it is all about expectations. A crew of young Americans will always provide a different feel then seasoned international workers. Why not turn that into an advantage and market the more relaxed island experience. You don't market Club Med the same way you do The Four Seasons.

 

In any case NCLA has to cover the basics. They do need to make sure every cabin is clean and serviced correctly. It appears from the small sample here that may not be the case for everyone. Motel 6 or the Waldorf an expectation is your room is cleaned daily.

 

Set correct expectations and met them :) Same should be said to NCLA when they hire new US workers.

[JunPOA]

Would a drop in NCL/ Star's quarterly stock reports be an indicator of a failing (growing losses on profit) NCL from an econmic standpoint?

 

TA's could be surevyed now as an indicator of a recution on NCL bookings as well number of cancelled bookings on previously reserved NCL & NCLA cruises.

What do you all think?

[Zeno]

I agree with almost everything you post. I was thinking it is much easier to get a diverse menu out with set seating times. After a few months there are clear trends of the percentage of each item that is ordered when. Speeds up the kitchen making the wait staff appear more responsive.

 

Passengers only expect Freestyle because that is now part of the brand.

 

I had folks from my office on the POAL "virus cruise" they were on of the 80%+ that were satisfied with their cruise.

 

If any ship in the NCL fleet only had an 80% sat. rating the Hotel Director would be fired.

 

I go back to my original position - it is all about expectations. A crew of young Americans will always provide a different feel then seasoned international workers. Why not turn that into an advantage and market the more relaxed island experience. You don't market Club Med the same way you do The Four Seasons.

 

In any case NCLA has to cover the basics. They do need to make sure every cabin is clean and serviced correctly. It appears from the small sample here that may not be the case for everyone. Motel 6 or the Waldorf an expectation is your room is cleaned daily.

 

Set correct expectations and met them :) Same should be said to NCLA when they hire new US workers.

 

Good topic! I am inclined to agree that maybe it was not such a good idea to "brand" NCLA as NCL America because it does lead one to expect the very good service levels and atmosphere of the NCL ships. From all I have read the experiences do not sound comparable. I loved my 3 NCL cruises but I am still waffling about planning an NCLA cruise in 2008. I would not go expecting the same level of service that I got on my NCL cruises but I do expect "the basics" ( a clean, properly serviced cabin, access to edible food and clean public areas).

For NCL's sake I think it would be better if they distanced themselves from NCLA - maybe a new name for NCLA, maybe a casual dress code, maybe set dining room seatings (I love Freestyle dining but I know the logistics are more challenging than traditional) .

[electricron]

Would a drop in NCL/ Star's quarterly stock reports be an indicator of a failing (growing losses on profit) NCL from an econmic standpoint? TA's could be surevyed now as an indicator of a recution on NCL bookings as well number of cancelled bookings on previously reserved NCL & NCLA cruises. What do you all think?

 

Yes, and no. One must be able to read between the lines when looking at quarterly reports on profits and losses. For example, the company I work for three years ago had a large one time loss that drove it's stock price down below $11 per share. Today, after a stock split, the stock goes for $60 per share ($120 per share before the stock split). The point being, the core business of the company was unaffected. When looking at cruise line reports, make sure you read the reports carefully and look at year to year same quarter sales and expenses. After all, the cruise business is cyclic, with huge profits when the schools are out, and small profits and loses when schools are in session.

[Goldryder]

Colin Veitch should dump the US flagging idea, he's tried it and its doing more harm than good for the Star Cruises/NCL brand.

 

Incase people forget that US flagging does not work...

 

http://www.maritimematters.com/americanhawaii.html

 

Veitch can put all the best ships he wants on the routes but they aren't worth wotsit if the crews don't perform well as a team. The bad ones maybe in a minority but lets be brutal here, bad apples are always the first to be noticed, especially on a cruise ship where people are in a confined space for a week at a time.

 

NCLA has failed. I do admire Veitch in trying to rekindle US flagging, but now its time to call it a day, before any more damage is done to the brand as a whole. Time to give up on NCLA, there is no point splitting the companies as the NCLA name/trademark is tainted...and considering the number of companies that have done this in the past and failed, no-one with any sense would touch the idea of taking over NCLA in any form with a 40ft bargepole.

[shoreguy]

Colin Veitch should dump the US flagging idea, he's tried it and its doing more harm than good for the Star Cruises/NCL brand.

 

NCLA has failed. I do admire Veitch in trying to rekindle US flagging, but now its time to call it a day, before any more damage is done to the brand as a whole. Time to give up on NCLA, there is no point splitting the companies as the NCLA name/trademark is tainted...and considering the number of companies that have done this in the past and failed, no-one with any sense would touch the idea of taking over NCLA in any form with a 40ft bargepole.

 

I think that is a bit extreme - It has not failed yet in fact in this little corner of cyberspace that attracts maybe 2% of the cruising public many more have posted good reviews rather then the cursing public "nightmare" threads. Normally you are more likely to hear from those that have problems.

 

Things got pretty good and very quiet here before they had to dilute the limited labor pool again with the addition of the POHI. The rumors of NCLA's demise are a bit exaggerated;)

 

Do they have work to do, yes. Do they have to get to a point where this enterprise makes money, yes. Can they maintain 4 ships in HI, who knows. Is it perfect. no way.

 

The past is not always the future. Nobody has put quality ships in HI before, nobody has invested in training like NCL, never has there been such a large market of potential cruise passengers.

 

I don't think anyone went into this not knowing it would be hard. Get it right over time and the payoff could still be huge.

 

The fact is if you are looking for a traditional cruise experience stay away from NCL and further away from NCLA.

 

If you want to see 4 islands in 7 days there is only one good option NCLA.

[JAM810]

:confused: What is the difference between NCL and NCLA? Is it NCLA ships are American/USA registered and NCL ships aren't? Please clarify. :)

[shoreguy]

:confused: What is the difference between NCL and NCLA? Is it NCLA ships are American/USA registered and NCL ships aren't? Please clarify. :)

 

Thus the reason for my concern with the Brand

 

NCL - international crew and staff like most other lines

 

NCLA - American Flagged and must be staffed with almost all US workers at US wages.

[JAM810]

Thus the reason for my concern with the Brand

 

NCL - international crew and staff like most other lines

 

NCLA - American Flagged and must be staffed with almost all US workers at US wages.

 

Shoreguy -- Thank you so much for the clarification.

 

It seems as I read thru this thread that the NCLA ships aren't up to par as compared to the NCL ships. And, since the NCL name is tied to the NCLA ships, it is bringing the NCL name down.

 

I've never been on an NCLA ship; however, I've been on NCL ships. Is it true that the NCLA ships don't have their act together? And, can we truly say that the American labor and wages that is mandated is what is making NCLA not equal to NCL? And, other than NCLA cruising just the HI islands and having mostly America staffing, what else makes them different than other NCL ships?

[TikiMeekie]

Forget all the pomp of cruising, market it as Island Casual Cruising - shorts are fine anytime any place. "Hang loose as you move with our US crew from one Island Paradise to the other"

 

I love this idea. One of the things that has kept me away from cruises in the past is formal nights. I don't like dressing up, and I also really *really* hate "dress codes" of any sort - the whole feeling of having to dress a certain way, then get looked up and down when you arrive to see if you meet someone's standards *really* annoys me. I don't dress like a slob, but then again I don't see a problem with wearing a nice pair of jeans or shorts to dinner.

 

I would love the main dining room and some restaurants to be more casual, go ahead and keep Le Bistro and Cagneys as places you need to dress up for if people feel the need.

 

I also wonder about the buffets. I go to Vegas quite often, and the buffets there are amazing now - Bellagio has things like Beef Wellington and Wild Boar, in addition to amazing desserts and all sorts of things. While I don't expect quite that level on a ship, if it did have some more gourmet options, I would think it would be a lot busier - therefore taking a lot of the pressure off the other dining rooms. Heck - include lobster night here too - give each person a ticket for one lobster tail when they enter that they can turn in for a tail. I'd probably eat at the buffet 5/7 nights if it was pretty nice. (I'll find out in a month!) Seems like it would be that hard to go to vegas and get some ideas. Buffets can also serve so many more people in a shorter amount of time - table turnover is so much quicker when people don't have to wait to order, then wait for their food to be cooked that even with just 200 seats, they could probably serve 50-60% of the ship in 4-5 hours.

[snowman]

Let me see.........It takes you longer there (8hr)....., the food is bad...., housekeeping stinks..., its more expensive..., and service is lousy.........duh its a no brainer.

[johnql]

I agree with Shoreguy's assessment - the pairing of the two brands (NCL and NCLA) does nothing to differentiate between the two cruising experiences. And it's fairly clear that the experiences are different. It's also clear that the cruising public has trouble differentiating between the two lines. In fact, most of the time, I would guess that prospective cruisers don't recognize that NCLA even exists separate and apart from the NCL fleet. On the other hand, there are people who don't realize that Princess, HAL and Carnival are all owned by the same mega-corporation. That's because Carnival Corporation was smart enough to keep the brands separate and distinct. Star Cruises (parent company of NCL and NCLA) should rebrand NCLA and figure out a way to market the two cruise lines separately.

[Don Haynes]

I say give NCL another year or two before running up a white bedsheet. Its the same with every American business, weeding out those who won't work and live aboard cruise ships. Its one thing to keep American entertainers and cruise directors, its another thing to keep good American housekeepers and dish washers.

 

It seem just when NCLA has gotten some control over the weeding out process, they have introduced another ship. In a year or two, after the weeding out process, NCLA should be a great success.

 

If not, it would be time to run up the white bedsheet.

[seahorse]

In one word.........YES.........I know hindsight is a wonderful thing and I don`t think that they thought it through, especially adding more ships so fast. I think that they overestimated the American workforce:rolleyes:

 

It has been a tough row to hoe for NCL and they finally were getting out of the ditch with Freestyle. Now, I think they are going back down with NCLA.

 

I know many agencies that will not sell NCL (not mine:) ) or if they do, they make the client sign a waiver stating that they were told about the negatives.

 

IMO I think that Star should take over and re-brand if that was at all possible. The downfall of NCLA is the American crew.....I am sad to say:o

[Bagbklyn]

My parents went on the POH 6/5. My parents have been cruising since I can remember. They were totally disappointed with the POH. They said it felt more like a ferry. Mind you, they have been on cruises from the QE2 down to the Dolphin cruise that ferries out of Ft.Lauderdale to Bahamas. I recently went on the Dawn 6/24. My girlfriend and I loved the experience, we loved it so much that I said just so my parents can see the difference between NCL and NCLA i'm sending them on an NCL cruise at the end of September.

 

On the POH the freestyle portion isn't what bothered them, they were more bothered by the non-cohesiveness of all the employess on board. This may have been since it was a new crew, but they said they didn't believe so.

 

As an example my father asked 2 different waiters for Tobasco sauce at the dinner buffet, my father said the 2 waiters never came back, and that they must have went to ask the captain where it is?

 

 

Hopefully by either going on the Dawn or the Spirit don't know which one yet, I hope they will have a better experience and start praising NCL.

 

To answer the question in the threadI do believe they made a mistake by naming it so close to their core NCL brand. Also on a side note an employee on the Dawn said that the NCL employees don't like the NCLA employees. The employees consider it a totally different company. I believe NCL should have named it so. Star didn't change NCL's name when it purchased NCL. I think if NCL wanted to spin-off NCLA is should have named is Hawaiian Cruise Line Or Alaskan Cruise Line or something since that is the only place it will likely sail to take advantage of the Jones act.

[Goldryder]

There is one possible stumbling block to re-branding.

 

Sun.

 

She is due to do Hawai'i/Fanning Island next year, she is international with international crew.

 

If NCLA was rebranded and kept as a seperate entity, would that not mean that Sun would have to be formally chartered to the NCLA rather than just 'borrowed'?

 

If chartered, would that mean staffing would be changed to all US or could it legally stay international.