My theory on Mandatory "Service Fee"

[sjbdtz]

We are talking about two different things here. The original poster talks about a mandatory "service fee" and in turn, is referring to NCLA flagged ships, not NCL.

 

I stated NCLA in my post and explained how that is different from NCL and the rest of the lines.

 

You can go ahead with your smart remarks about tipping the person wiping down the railings or cleaning the pool, but they do not receive tips anyway. If you would read the posts before mouthing off, you would see that there are two different topics in this thread, one about American flagged ships (NCLA) and one about all the rest of the NCL ships and the rest of the cruise lines in general.

 

Automatic tips collected "for your convenience" (actually it is for their convenience), may be adjusted up or down or removed. The "service charge" or 'resort charge" or whatever you want to call it on an NCLA flagged ship is mandatory so the line can pay for vacation time for their American crew. I have been told that i can not be removed unless it is under extraordinary circmstances.

 

So, when talking about the person cleaning the pool or wiping down the railings, are you talking about an NCL ship or an NCLA ship? It is two different things.

 

You spoke about both NCL and NCLA in the post to which I replied. My reply discussed the tipping component, not the service charge component on NCLA, since I have no experience there.

 

It is my understanding that people beyond the room stewards, waiter, & assistant waiter can benefit from the tip pool on NCL ships.

 

And your flippant comments that tips can be adjusted down if you prefer to tip by envelope is misleading. In order to revise the tip, you need to 'name names', to justify why everybody is making less money.....and people lose their jobs over this.

 

So it's not just a matter of automatic tipping being optional (on NCL)....it isn't. It's an automatic tip structure which REPLACES envelopes, not provides an alternative to them.

 

And I can only IMAGINE just how powerful & mighty you must feel, providing $10 to the omelet maker....is it class, or race that makes this so important to you?:mad:

[bakechef]

You spoke about both NCL and NCLA in the post to which I replied. My reply discussed the tipping component, not the service charge component on NCLA, since I have no experience there.

 

It is my understanding that people beyond the room stewards, waiter, & assistant waiter can benefit from the tip pool on NCL ships.

 

And your flippant comments that tips can be adjusted down if you prefer to tip by envelope is misleading. In order to revise the tip, you need to 'name names', to justify why everybody is making less money.....and people lose their jobs over this.

 

So it's not just a matter of automatic tipping being optional (on NCL)....it isn't. It's an automatic tip structure which REPLACES envelopes, not provides an alternative to them.

 

And I can only IMAGINE just how powerful & mighty you must feel, providing $10 to the omelet maker....is it class, or race that makes this so important to you?:mad:

 

Kinda hostile, don't you think! I don't think, that the omelet poster, was bragging, just giving an example of how to set yourself apart from the crowd, and recieve great service. Some people are generous, for the sake of being generous, not for the sake of bragging. Being so synical must cloud your view of the world and the people who are truly kind and generous, you're missing alot.

[sjbdtz]

Kinda hostile, don't you think! I don't think, that the omelet poster, was bragging, just giving an example of how to set yourself apart from the crowd, and recieve great service. Some people are generous, for the sake of being generous, not for the sake of bragging. Being so synical must cloud your view of the world and the people who are truly kind and generous, you're missing alot.

 

Kinda lost, aren't you? This is the NCL board, and I see you have no NCL experience. The poster in question advised people to ignore the cruiseline's rules, and to tip the way other cruiselines do.

 

They bragged about how grateful the omelet station attendant was, when they deigned to give him $20.00.

 

I take umbrage at those with no experience in the field, giving advice on how best to circumvent the rules.

 

I'm not really a cynic, but the mental image the poster created wrt the omelet station, was rather distressing, and provided yet ANOTHER reason for following the automatic tipping structure put in place by NCL.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

When I was debating on what job with NCLA I would take it was pretty much said that Hotel utility people and deck stewards for example (people who clean inside and outside) do not get any tips unless its from a passenger and thats rare.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

. In order to revise the tip, you need to 'name names', to justify why everybody is making less money.....and people lose their jobs over this.

 

 

This is a good point that I have always tried to make. I think alot of passengers forget that the daily tip goes to 3 main people. So you have a bad dinner once, and you take the $10 a day off and now you just screwed 2 of the 3 people over when they worked hard and did an excellent job.

[NJBear]

........ Here is my theory behind this.

 

.......

 

Actually a "theory" isn't needed nor necessary. What you refer to is beyond theoretical, it is actively n practice. The cruise lines states what it is and who it is for. We never have to do anything we don't agree to do. If my "theory" is the fares are too high, I can refuse to pay it..and stay home :D :D :D

[shoreguy]

One point lost in this discussion if a passengers manages to opt out any cash tips from that passenger must be reported by the staff. That cash is deduced from their share of the pool. It would not be fair to take a full share and cash from someone who did no contribute to the pool.

 

If you give extra cash and still cover the pool that is the crews to keep.

 

Not sure how they enforce the rule but I do know it is in place. Without this rule you could find crew members saying sure opt out giive me cash and in fact double dipping

[jimc_usa]

I could be wrong but on an American flagged vessel with an American crew I'm sure they are subject to the same minimum wage rules that apply for the rest of us. They are making more money than non-U.S. flagged employees make - by far. So, in my opinion, tipping would be a whole different animal here and would more likely be at the passengers discretion.

 

I assume that you may not know that minimum wage does not apply to waiters/waitress' in the US.

Many beginning or inexperienced workers start earning the Federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour. However, a few States set minimum wages higher than the Federal minimum. Also, various minimum wage exceptions apply under specific circumstances to disabled workers, full-time students, youth under age 20 in their first 90 days of employment, tipped employees, and student-learners. Tipped employees are those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips. The employer may consider tips as part of wages, but the employer must pay at least $2.13 an hour in direct wages. Employers also are permitted to deduct from wages the cost, or fair value, of any meals or lodging provided. Many employers, however, provide free meals and furnish uniforms. Food and beverage service workers who work full time often receive typical benefits, while part-time workers usually do not.

[seamama1]

I assume that you may not know that minimum wage does not apply to waiters/waitress' in the US.

Many beginning or inexperienced workers start earning the Federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour. However, a few States set minimum wages higher than the Federal minimum. Also, various minimum wage exceptions apply under specific circumstances to disabled workers, full-time students, youth under age 20 in their first 90 days of employment, tipped employees, and student-learners. Tipped employees are those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips. The employer may consider tips as part of wages, but the employer must pay at least $2.13 an hour in direct wages. Employers also are permitted to deduct from wages the cost, or fair value, of any meals or lodging provided. Many employers, however, provide free meals and furnish uniforms. Food and beverage service workers who work full time often receive typical benefits, while part-time workers usually do not.

 

Yes, I was aware of the special circumstances with waiters/waitresses, etc. I wonder if NCLA abides by that or if they have to offer more due to the extended work hours. I'm sure that somewhere there must be some DOL regulation concerning working 10 hours a day, seven days a week. There must be an incentive of some sort to attract someone to this type of work schedule.

 

I also wonder about those who are not wait staff. They would probably be subject to minimum wage. Or not. Interesting.

[honestguy]

The NCL America Crew are quite a unique group in the Cruise Industry.

Since they are under the protection of US Labor Laws, they realize many benefits that other cruise line employees do not see.

 

NCLA:

US Minimum Wage and Overtime Laws are followed

Health Insurance is provided

Vacations are paid (after a specified time)

If vacations are not paid, NCLA Crew can collect unemployment benefits

Mandatory Passports are paid for by NCLA (most American applicants have no passport)

If crew get sick onboard, they still get paid for that period

Mandatory US Merchant Marine Card paid for by NCLA (about $800)

Mandatory Medical exam paid by NCLA

Mandatory Drug Test paid by NCLA

Service Training provided by NCLA

Safety Training provided by NCLA

Air Tickets provided by NCLA

Uniforms provided by NCLA

Meals and lodging provided by NCLA

 

Most Everyone Else:

Most service staff are paid US$1 per day plus tips

Most overtime work is not paid at all.

Salaries (and sometimes auto-tips) are required to be sent home through the crewmembers Agent, who takes a cut for "handling" charges.

Cruise Ships self-insure for medical while the crew is onboard. At home they have no insurance coverage.

If crew are sick onboard, they receive no pay or tips for that period

There are no paid vacations

There is no unemployment benefit to collect

Crew pay for their own passports and required work visas

Crew pay for their own service training

Crew pay for their own safety training

Crew pay for their own mandatory medical exams; some cruise lines rebate part or all

Crew pay for their own mandatory drug tests

Most crew pay a very high recruitment fee to their agent back home

Some cruise lines provide air tickets; some provide 50%; some require crew to pay

Some cruise lines provide uniforms; some require crew to pay

Meals and lodging provided by the cruise lines

 

Well lets see how many things are wrong here.

 

Health insurance is provided! Wrong you have access to the ship's doctor, and thats about it unless something serious is wrong then you might get to go offshore to a hospital, when your on vacation, there is no health insurance, after a certain time period the union will cover u for a fee. You get full paid vacations, after 2 years. Passports arn't needed on board..

If you get sick while on board you do not get paid. If you heard of this it is false. I spent 3 days in bed (doctor's order) for code brown, and recieved nothing.

 

As for the training, and the drug tests every other us company pays this as well. When you get into the nuts and bolts of it, its a very undesirable job.

[shoreguy]

Yes, I was aware of the special circumstances with waiters/waitresses, etc. I wonder if NCLA abides by that or if they have to offer more due to the extended work hours. I'm sure that somewhere there must be some DOL regulation concerning working 10 hours a day, seven days a week. There must be an incentive of some sort to attract someone to this type of work schedule.

 

I also wonder about those who are not wait staff. They would probably be subject to minimum wage. Or not. Interesting.

 

Go to NCLs website employment details are there. Wait staff have to be paid like any other US crew member. Everything over 40 hours at time and half. So a bar wait staff starts at about $6.50/hour for the first 40 hours and about $9.75/hour for all hours over that.

 

Every job pays well over minimum shore based wages and includes room and board.

[LaRee1L]

I copied the info below from the NCL site. The $10 service charge supports "incentive programs." The crew is encouraged to work together as a service team and is compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs.

 

My question is "How do the incentive programs work?" It doesn't sound to me like everyone that you normally tip gets a piece of the pie - do they base it on the comment cards that you may or may not find on your dining table and should there be comment cards in your cabin for the room stewards, etc.

What I find as excellent service, someone else may find deplorable - I would be PO'd if I found out that someone that I thought did a great job didn't get an "incentive payout" because more people thought they gave terrible service. Personally, I'd like to just pay the tips directly - let me decide who to tip and who not to tip.

 

Maybe my interpretation of the policy is flawed and welcome any feasible explanation that might change my mind.

 

 

SERVICE CHARGE

A fixed service charge of $10 per person, per day will be added to your onboard account. For children ages 3-12, a $5 per person per day charge will be added to your onboard account; there is no charge for children under the age of three. Our crew is encouraged to work together as a service team and is compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that the service charge supports. It is our earnest wish that you enjoy your Freestyle Cruise experience and that our entire crew in all areas of the ship will provide you with the standard of service for which NCL is known. Therefore, if you have any concerns about the service you receive during your cruise, please bring them to the immediate attention of our reception desk staff on board so that we can address any issues in a timely manner before the cruise is over.

 

Both NCL and NCL America have a structured guest satisfaction program on board designed to handle any concerns raised by our guests relating to the service or on board product quickly and efficiently. In almost all cases we are able to come up with a satisfactory solution to any issues which are raised and make sure our guests can focus on enjoying their cruise vacation. In the unlikely event we cannot satisfactorily resolve the issue through our guest satisfaction program, guests will be able to adjust the service charge according to the level of inconvenience they feel they have experienced. Our clear priority is to have the opportunity of resolving the issue, when it happens, to everyone’s complete satisfaction.

 

GRATUITIES

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on NCL America or Norwegian Cruise Line ships. Guests should not feel obliged to offer a gratuity for service that is generally rendered to all guests.

 

However, all of our staff are encouraged to "go the extra mile", and so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities entirely at the discretion of our guests who wish to acknowledge particular staff members for exceptional or outstanding service. In other words, there is genuinely no need to tip but you should feel free to do so if you have a desire to acknowledge particular individuals.

 

Also, certain staff positions provide service on an individual basis to only some guests. We encourage those guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. For example, for guests purchasing bar drinks the recommended gratuity is 15 percent. Similarly, for guests using concierge and butler services, we recommend they consider offering a gratuity commensurate with services rendered.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

Thanks Honest guy. Its nice to see someone talk who actually knows what they are talking about!

[sjbdtz]

My question is "How do the incentive programs work?" It doesn't sound to me like everyone that you normally tip gets a piece of the pie - do they base it on the comment cards that you may or may not find on your dining table and should there be comment cards in your cabin for the room stewards, etc.

What I find as excellent service, someone else may find deplorable - I would be PO'd if I found out that someone that I thought did a great job didn't get an "incentive payout" because more people thought they gave terrible service. Personally, I'd like to just pay the tips directly - let me decide who to tip and who not to tip.

 

Maybe my interpretation of the policy is flawed and welcome any feasible explanation that might change my mind.

 

You have most of it down...just missing one small part....if you want to tip directly, you're welcome to.

 

But it's in addition to the service charge, not instead of.

[NJBear]

I worked in the restaurant/hospitality industry for years and as I read the threads about tipping/service charges/incentives and how the $$$ is divided up it makes me wonder why we even think any of that is any of our business really. IF the cruise line sayd that is what they want..and the employees are told when they are hired how it works..then THEY are the ones that matter.

 

There are many restaurants that have all the wait staff and bartenders pool their tips and divide them up at the end of the shifts. There are also hotels that have the maids pool their tips as well (even though most travelers don't even think of dropping a $5 or a $10 on the dresser at a hotel. I don't recall anyone ever asking what happens to their $$$$ after they tip in a restaurant..you know the person that seemed to be the worst waiter in the world on Monday gets the same share as the person who appears to be the best.....Guess what?? On Tuesday night the best may be the worst and vice versa..we all have very good days and unfortunately very bad days no matter what job we do.

[bakechef]

[quote name='sjbdtz']Kinda lost, aren't you? This is the NCL board, and I see you have no NCL experience. The poster in question advised people to ignore the cruiseline's rules, and to tip the way other cruiselines do.

They bragged about how grateful the omelet station attendant was, when they deigned to give him $20.00.

I take umbrage at those with no experience in the field, giving advice on how best to circumvent the rules.

I'm not really a cynic, but the mental image the poster created wrt the omelet station, was rather distressing, and provided yet ANOTHER reason for following the automatic tipping structure put in place by NCL.[/quote]

Hello, I am not lost, I commented on a gratuity not about ncl, my post did not claim to know anything about ncl, just your cynical view of generous people, I will tip people above and beyond if I choose on ANY cruiseline. I will pay the mandatory service charge, but will also tip extra when I see fit. I never claimed to be an expert on NCL or NCLA, but was commenting on your attitude.:(

[seamama1]

[quote name='shoreguy']Go to NCLs website employment details are there. Wait staff have to be paid like any other US crew member. Everything over 40 hours at time and half. So a bar wait staff starts at about $6.50/hour for the first 40 hours and about $9.75/hour for all hours over that.

Every job pays well over minimum shore based wages and includes room and board.[/quote]

[B]Well, I sorta thought along these lines. Can't imagine one would take a job like this without a decent pay scale. Plus it would seem being a U.S. flagged carrier that DOL laws would apply. Thus my questions. [/B]

[B]The only reason it came to my mind at all is concerning the "service fee" as opposed or in conjunction with the "gratuity" issue. It makes sense now - thanks everyone![/B]

[B]In response to the "none of my business" remark; I know it is none of my business...just trying to get it straight. I wouldn't cruise it anyway...I remember American Hawaii Cruises and what a dreadful cruise experience that was. NCLA is having the exact same issues AHC had. Hope NCL lasts longer than they did.... [/B]

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='bakechef']Hello, I am not lost, I commented on a gratuity not about ncl, my post did not claim to know anything about ncl, just your cynical view of generous people, I will tip people above and beyond if I choose on ANY cruiseline. I will pay the mandatory service charge, but will also tip extra when I see fit. I never claimed to be an expert on NCL or NCLA, but was commenting on your attitude.:([/quote]

The interesting thing is that my 'attitude' was a response to a specific poster who said they wanted to do away with the mandatory service charge.

The last gratuity I extended was a few days ago, dinner bill for family was $801 including tax....and the tip was $174....so I will not stand for being told I'm not adequately generous.

[steveaaaa]

[quote name='Host Cecilia'] And again, the tip is added to your bill as a convenience and not a mandatory charge. You may remove some or all of it at any time on NCL ships. A tip is indeed to insure prompt service and if you don't get that...take it off.[/quote]

If it were that easy to take it off.
Stand in line at the pursers
Request it be removed
My favorite now.......
WHY?

That is a question that should not be asked.That is the reason many don't do it.They are embarrassed to even ask.

Steve

[steveaaaa]

[quote name='sjbdtz']The interesting thing is that my 'attitude' was a response to a specific poster who said they wanted to do away with the mandatory service charge.

The last gratuity I extended was a few days ago, dinner bill for family was $801 including tax....and the tip was $174....so I will not stand for being told I'm not adequately generous.[/quote]

WOW! Was that in US dollars or Canadian?:D

That was very generous and I wish I could be your waiter.
Steve

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='steveaaaa']If it were that easy to take it off.
Stand in line at the pursers
Request it be removed
My favorite now.......
WHY?

That is a question that should not be asked.That is the reason many don't do it.They are embarrassed to even ask.

Steve[/quote]

Why is a great question. If your actions are going to affect the income of several people, and presumably your status as a prospective return customer, then the cruiseline has every reason to want (need) to know why.

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='steveaaaa']WOW! Was that in US dollars or Canadian?:D

That was very generous and I wish I could be your waiter.
Steve[/quote]

They're almost worth the same, now! :cool:


It's about 20%. The thing is that I just signed it to the credit card....I didn't peel off $50s and hand them to him. He wouldn't have realized how much he got, until we had left the premises.

Besides...it's about 20%...not completely outlandish, considering he probably shares it with the dishwasher, the busboy, the bread boy, the wine steward, the hostess, the bartender, etc.

This is the thing about people who think they know better....they usually don't. I owned a restaurant...which, while it eventually cost me a lot of money, taught me a lot about the inner workings of the hospitality industry.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

[quote name='steveaaaa']If it were that easy to take it off.
Stand in line at the pursers
Request it be removed
My favorite now.......
WHY?

That is a question that should not be asked.That is the reason many don't do it.They are embarrassed to even ask.

Steve[/quote]

Actually I really get mad when people talk about how they should be able to take this off easier then they currently can. I think you should have to do alot more then just say "i waited too long for my meal" considering your taking a hunk of the weekly pay away from 3 people, and maybe even getting them in big trouble.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

[quote name='steveaaaa']
That is a question that should not be asked.That is the reason many don't do it.They are embarrassed to even ask.

Steve[/quote]

Good! They should be! They just sound really cheap. I think people dont realize that doing this just wont affect the one person that made them mad. It will have an impact on 2 other workers also.

[NJBear]

[quote name='steveaaaa']If it were that easy to take it off.
Stand in line at the pursers
Request it be removed
My favorite now.......
WHY?

That is a question that should not be asked.That is the reason many don't do it.They are embarrassed to even ask.

Steve[/quote]

IF something is not right on a cruise that a person feels they need to cancel all participation in the service charge, the cruiseline should know what that is so they can correct it.

If it isn't any fault of the people who would benefit from the $$$$ then...:D

I guess the answer to WHY could always be "I'm a cheap sucker and I don't want to tip anyone for anything..ever" *shrug*