Speculation on Maiden World Cruise

[guernseyguy]

.....the following was written before the Iraq war, that has made us all so much safer:

 

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,,651633,00.html

 

Peter

[pnhmrk]

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all the terrorists have been Muslim.

 

What about the IRA? I'm sure that they were a lot of good catholic Muslims! But then I forget - you Yanks supported them so they couldn't have been terrorists.

[mufi]

They do call this the silly season. Yesterday an (American) lady threw a wobbler on a transatlantic flight and had to be escorted to Boston by two fighter aircraft. Over the top? Discuss.

 

Now we have to worry about sailing through the Suez canal.

 

America is a big country and most Americans have not seen a fraction of it. They have less need to travel and have always tended to put up the barriers in troubled times (60% of Americans don't hold a passport) Brits on the other hand live in a small country and have always tended to look outwards.

 

Stop worrying and take that cruise if you are lucky to be able to afford it.

 

David.

[CubsFan1856]

Why is it that nothing on the Cunard board can ever remain on topic?

 

This thread has turned ugly to include people's political views and continued on to blatent stereotyping.

 

Totally ridiculous!

 

As for the OP's question (which was entirely valid considering the state of the world today) I'm sure that any itin changes will be made if areas are deemed unsafe. Go and enjoy yourself on this wonderful ship

[coy860]

How many of you believe that Cunard would inform booked passengers of changes to the World Cruise Itinerary BEFORE sailing?

 

OR would they wait until the passengers are onboard, and then do a few scheduled ports, and THEN inform the passengers of changes?

[guernseyguy]

all the terrorists have been Muslim.

 

For clarity, do you still stand by this assertion?

 

Peter

[travel-to-go]

How many of you believe that Cunard would inform booked passengers of changes to the World Cruise Itinerary BEFORE sailing?

 

OR would they wait until the passengers are onboard, and then do a few scheduled ports, and THEN inform the passengers of changes?

 

Coy860,

It sounds to me like- how can I put this politely that doesn't sound like a slam- you are filled with doubts and misgivings about this trip, including Cunard's honesty and concern for its profits over its passengers, along with the motives and trustworthiness of the host countries and their citizens.

Your mind seems to be made up. Additionally, it appears that you do not have a fondness or affinity for some of the people and cultures you will be visiting. Mistrust of your hosts, both maritime and terestrial is certain to affect your enjoyment of the trip and the countries you will be visiting. Perhaps you might enjoy a segment, or a trip which did not so heavily involve visiting countries with ancient Moslem clutures, dating back centuries. These cultures were the cradle of civilization, but you feel that they are now the cradle of incivility. If I hated oceans, I might not enjoy a trip to the seashore. Likewise, if cold and I were not affianced, perhaps a glacier and I might find more suitable partners in other people/venues.

From all you have said here, perhaps this is not the best choice of vacations for you. Regardless of the safety of this trip, it seems as though it is not the right one for you. How can you immerse yourself in the lives, histories, and cultures of these areas if you truly do not like and trusts its present-day denizens?

 

I would strongly recommend you think long and hard about your choice of holidays, and perhaps consider somewhere less painful for you.

 

Of course I have strong feeling about unthinking condemnation of a whole people based on the over-hyped hateful activities of a few. I work with many fine people from all over the world. Many of them are Muslims. They have taught me much about their various cultures, and shared their traditions, religious and otherwise, with me. I feel blessesd that they have chosen to give me entre and insight into a world different from my own. I am honored by this. These are my opinions, and as such, you may not share them. That is your right.

 

But I would think strongly about how you choose to spend your holiday. It is an awful lot of money to do something it sounds as though you might not really enjoy. Perhaps asking yourself what about this journey is important. What is your goal, might give you better insight into your own values and desires and point you to a direction that would be more pleasing for you, and a bettter use of your (I am sure) hard-earned travel budget.

 

Best Wishes (or as most of my Muslim friends sign their missives, Best Regards,)

 

Karie

[guernseyguy]

Your mind seems to be made up. From all you have said here, perhaps this is not the best choice of vacations for you. I would strongly recommend you think long and hard about your choice of holidays, and perhaps consider somewhere less painful for you.

 

Karie,

 

What a wonderfully tactful, patient, sensible reply - which I heartily concur with.

 

Peter

[PeterB]

Just to return to the original question! We did the QE2 World Cruise this year. The Suez Canal is probably the safest part as the ship was very heavily guarded by troops in light armoured vehicles the whole way. In the seas that were regarded as more dangerous, the parabolic sound transmitters were manned. I wondered why any potential attackers would not just wear ear defenders. THe onboard security get constant updates from the US, UK and Australian governments and follow the current advice. We had to miss Bali, Bangkok and Petra because of this.

 

Regards,

 

Peter

[coy860]

THe onboard security get constant updates from the US, UK and Australian governments and follow the current advice. We had to miss Bali, Bangkok and Petra because of this.

 

Thank you for your response. Were you notified much in advance that Bali, Bangkok and Petra would be passed over?

[PeterB]

Thank you for your response. Were you notified much in advance that Bali, Bangkok and Petra would be passed over?

 

We knew about Bali before the trip started, Bangkok was sprung on us on the day and Petra about a week before. They did manage to offer an alternative to Petra, (Kusadasi) in Turkey. Not easy considering all the logistics and not really a substitute for Petra which was to be one of the highlights for us. Still they have no real choice except to follow the advice given.

 

Peter

[coy860]

Where to begin to your sermonette?

Cunard set the precedent with their honesty after the damage was done to their pod. Surely you didn't miss their posts.

As to your comment "that I feel they are the cradle of incivility", I do NOT FEEL, I THINK.

You have my permission to feel, I will think what I want. I had 4 relatives who suffered on September 11, one in the WTC, and 3 in the Pentagon.

Perhaps your dear friends would be willing to speak out against the murders that took place that day?Logical people have misgivings about travel by any means these days and with valid reason.

 

Coy860,

It sounds to me like- how can I put this politely that doesn't sound like a slam- you are filled with doubts and misgivings about this trip, including Cunard's honesty and concern for its profits over its passengers, along with the motives and trustworthiness of the host countries and their citizens.

Your mind seems to be made up. Additionally, it appears that you do not have a fondness or affinity for some of the people and cultures you will be visiting. Mistrust of your hosts, both maritime and terestrial is certain to affect your enjoyment of the trip and the countries you will be visiting. Perhaps you might enjoy a segment, or a trip which did not so heavily involve visiting countries with ancient Moslem clutures, dating back centuries. These cultures were the cradle of civilization, but you feel that they are now the cradle of incivility. If I hated oceans, I might not enjoy a trip to the seashore. Likewise, if cold and I were not affianced, perhaps a glacier and I might find more suitable partners in other people/venues.

From all you have said here, perhaps this is not the best choice of vacations for you. Regardless of the safety of this trip, it seems as though it is not the right one for you. How can you immerse yourself in the lives, histories, and cultures of these areas if you truly do not like and trusts its present-day denizens?

 

I would strongly recommend you think long and hard about your choice of holidays, and perhaps consider somewhere less painful for you.

 

Of course I have strong feeling about unthinking condemnation of a whole people based on the over-hyped hateful activities of a few. I work with many fine people from all over the world. Many of them are Muslims. They have taught me much about their various cultures, and shared their traditions, religious and otherwise, with me. I feel blessesd that they have chosen to give me entre and insight into a world different from my own. I am honored by this. These are my opinions, and as such, you may not share them. That is your right.

 

But I would think strongly about how you choose to spend your holiday. It is an awful lot of money to do something it sounds as though you might not really enjoy. Perhaps asking yourself what about this journey is important. What is your goal, might give you better insight into your own values and desires and point you to a direction that would be more pleasing for you, and a bettter use of your (I am sure) hard-earned travel budget.

 

Best Wishes (or as most of my Muslim friends sign their missives, Best Regards,)

 

Karie

[OceanLiner]

To come back on point. I began this thread to speculate as to the viability of this segment of the world cruise, and what were the thoughts of the community as to Cunard's options. This was only meant as a logistical question, I wasn't even asking if I should go, it only struck me as a potentialy serious problem for completing the cruise.

 

My opinion is that insurance will probably be the deciding factor. If you own a billion dollar ship that is not insurable if could make you decide on other options. So what would those options be? How would Cunard cope?

 

I think that they would need to send her around the Cape and directly up to Ft Lauderdale. This would complete the voyage, maybe not as intended, but it would be done and she would be safe.

[travel-to-go]

Coy860.

I live in CT. Don't think that I was not affected by 9/11. I also own a plane which is tied down at an airport where, apparently, two Kuwaiti nationals also attempted to take flying lessons, wanting only to learn how to steer the plane in the air, not wanting to know theory, nor take-offs and landing. I understand your consternation. and I am sorry for the suffereing of your loved ones. Having recently lost my father, I can imagine the fear, the anger, and the uncertainty. Such an event strips us of some very basic feelings of security that we may never know again. I do sympathize. But continuing the cycle of hatred and/or mistrust does no one any benefit. It robs you further of your feeling of security and that the world is basically a good place. It robs those millions of individual citizens of those countries and muslims in general of the innocence that they possess. Most Muslims I know are peaceful, moral, loving people, and disavow the kind of hatred that led to these acts. The Unabiomber, Ted Kascynski, was a mathemetician. I'm sure I can find other examples of mathemeticians who did whacko things. Shall I assume all methmeticians are evil (well, sometimes I do think so, but only becasue math seems to win any fight I have with it! <G>) You understand my point. Not only does it further distrust on BOTH sides, and cause those who already feel we hate them, and are aiming for our demise, to feel they have just cause to hate us and some to feel they must attack us to keep themselves safe (hmm, where have I heard that sentiment before?) it also implants in your mind that you are unsafe as long as there are those out there who are cut of the same cloth. It is a self-perpetuating circle, which does NOT further your safety and security, nor does it afford you peace of mind.

 

My wish for you, is that you find personal peace. You are obviously troubled by this- by these "thoughts" and that is not good. It has to be discomfiting to have such thoughts constantly reminding you that you could be in danger. That is no way to live, and I truly hope you can come to peace with those "thoughts" I am not saing this applies to you, but I have always felt that people who "hate" (Sdivorcing couples, race relations onBOTH sides, differing political or religious factions, families of murder victims) are often obsessed with these thoughts to the exxtent that they permeate the consciousness and push more pleasing, happy, peaceful thoughts to the perimeters. If you are haboring such obsessive thoughts, you need to let it go, and get back your life, happiness, security, and sense of normalcy, such as it were, and to the extent possible. I refuse to let these events rule my life, and take over the better side of my nature. then, as they say, "they" will have won, if they cause me to become less than the person I know I can be, with hatred and mistrust in my heart where love once ruled.

How much more peaceful it is to forgive, or to learn acceptance, or in the case of entire "cultures" learn about other aspects that are more positive. Surely you know that positives exist in all human beings. and yes, your enemies are human beings. I'm sure some of them feel the same about some of us. Good luck to you, and may you find peace. It won't be found through wars, or creating more barriers between peoples, or learning to hate those who are different.

 

Ocean Liner: I am not sure I understand the path you are supposing. are you saying that she would go round the horn of Africa? (as opposed to the horn of South America) and continue up the Atlantic to Ft Lauderdale? Perhaps I should drag out a brochure to be sure of the planned path. These days with upheavals in various states in Africa, there is no guarantee , with the lead times reqired to plan this, that we wouldn't run into problems elsewhere. and face it, if someone wanted to attack her, there is no place on earth that would be safe. As Coy860 has suggestd, NYC and Washington DC were not safe. We all know that London was not safe, nor Spain. We can live our lives constantly in fear or we can defy those who would do us harm by continung (carefully, but continuing nonethless) on with our lives as best we can. If "their" purpose was to disrupt our economy, they have succeeded. If it is to cause pain, that has happened. If it is to cause chaos and change in certain aspects of our lives, then we have given them that victory in spades! Unless there is a credible threat to the Suez, I think Cunard is right to plan to go there. Thousands upon thousands of ships a year pass through those locks. Not one (to my knowledge) has been attacked. I would take my chances. Now. If anyone wants to bankroll that ttrip for me so they can hold me to my words.....<G> We might as well skip all stops in London (Southhampton) Spain, and other places which have known strife. And of course, that path would take her right to the bedding grounds of many hurricanes at the start of hurricane season- the Cape Verde Islands. (No stranger to strife in past centuries themselves.)

 

Karie,

Who tries to live the words I have set before you. and no, they are not inspired of a relgious belief. I hold no religious belief as my own at present. I only know of what I believe to be my moral values.

'Nuff said.