Liberty - Venice shuttle incident

[Pokemomma]

I was on the July 18 sailing of Carnival Liberty and was involved in an incident in Venice that could have turned out badly. I'm sharing this only as a head's up to anyone taking a Carnival shuttle back to the ship from Venice. My intention is not to slam Carnival (although I do blame them for not having assistance at hand) but to insure safety. I don't know how other cruise lines handle the shuttle issue in Venice. I hope it's not the same as Carnival.

 

Here it is:

 

Well, after reading your letter, Jef and Arlene, I suppose I should also write Carnival regarding the Venice shuttle incident.

 

For those of you who hadn't heard this story......the last day in Venice, when we were ready to return to the ship (about 1:00 pm.) we went to the designated area at the bus station or train station or whatever it was and began to look for the bus. Of course, there were no Carnival reps on hand to assist us and we watched for about 15 minutes before we saw a bus pull up. Upon RUNNING to where the bus was, we discovered a line of about 150 people waiting to get on the shuttle. It was very, very hot and very crowded and I said to Michael 'let's forget this....I'll manage the walk because I can't deal with the pushing and shoving'.

 

As we began to walk away, another shuttle pulled up and we proceeded to line up at the door of that bus. I was near the front of the line and Michael somehow got shoved back about a dozen people. Suddenly all the people started to push in toward the door....being short, I felt like I was in a mosh pit but could do nothing to stop the crush and just had to let myself be smooshed into this throng of people. Then al hell broke loose. The bus door opened and three men -- grown, adult men -- tried to push me out of the way (which was impossible because I was just one little sardine) and force their way onto the bus....then 2 women started to do the same. The bus attendant kept yelling "Carnival Liberty only -- show me your card". The people shoving were NOT Carnival passengers. As it turned out, they were from the Costa ship....did not speak english (or acted as though they didn't) and they refused to move and just kept shoving until eventually two of the men managed to get on the bus. At that point, I was getting panicky and said to one of the women 'Carnival Liberty only, please let me by' whereby she turned around and slammed her elbow into my throat. Well that was FUN. I don't take kindly to being physically abused and let loose with the 'f'ing b*' and get the 'f' out of my way ....she stood there for about 10 seconds, called me a b**** and walked away -- what the he**? There was a Carnival passenger next to me trying to hang onto her son who seemed to be about 8 or 10 years old but the crowd forced them apart pushing her back into the crowd and pushing him toward the bus. All the time she was yelling...'please help my MINOR child!'. I yelled back that we'd get him and somehow another woman and I managed to get the kid on the bus and eventually his mother and Michael managed to get on along with a few of ya'll here.

 

Once the bus was full, the passengers forced the attendant guy to throw the two couples that didn't belong (and who played dumb) off the bus.

 

What a nightmare. What if something had happened to that child? He**, what if something had happened to me? This can't be the first time this kind of thing has happened.

 

Okay, now I'm pi**ed again.....going to write a letter.

 

J

__________________

Julie

 

Mexican Rivera - Admiral Stardancer - 1988

Hong Kong/China - Ocean Pearl - 6/88

Bermuda - Celebrity Horizon - 10/90

W. Caribbean - RCCL Majesty of the Seas - 4/92

E. Caribbean - RCCL Monarch of the Seas - 5/92

Mexican Rivera - RCCL Viking Serenade - 1995

Alaska - Celebrity Galaxy - 7/00

W. Caribbean - Carnival Triumph - 10/01

Hawaii - NCL Norwegian Star - 4/02

W. Caribbean - Celebrity Horizon - 4/04

Mexico 3-day - RCCL Monarch of the Seas - 10/04

So. Caribbean - Carnival Pride - 1/05

Caribbean - Celebrity Millenium - 4/05

Mexico 3-day - RCCL Monarch of the Seas - 9/05

Europe - Carnival Liberty - 7/06

[serene56]

Scarey-- this is just an accident waiting to happen. Does this happen a lot?

[zaandam_2]

yikes. what a mess.

 

i would've gotten out of that scene ASAP. the ship doesn't leave until 5, and its only a 20 min. walk. glad you weren't hurt worse.

[karenh1127]

What an awful ordeal! I would have been so scared. And if my child was being seperated from me in a stampede of people.......one of two things would happen.

1. Like a momma bear protecting her cub, my fist would have went flying!

or

2. I would have yelled "That guy on the bus has a gun!" Bet they would understand English then! (as they were running away)

 

Definitely write a letter. That needs to be dealt with. Good luck!

[Pokemomma]

Zaandam, yes, I should have listened to my first instinct and walked. Unfortunately, once it was happening, I was trapped and couldn't extricate myself from the crush.

 

Have a great time in October. The weather should be perfect. Suggest you partake of Harry's one night. The food and service are fabulous.

[wwinfl91]

Sounds like Carnival needs to hire some off-duty Venice police to act as security or send some of its own people with the buses to make sure events like this don't happen.

 

If you actually were at the Piazza Roma you were about a 15 minute walk from the ship which I suspect might have been preferable to what you went through.

 

Send your letter to Carnival and encourage anyone else who was on the ship to also send letters in hopes they will do something about this.

[notmartha]

Thanks for the warning, I think I will rather walk the 15 minutes than to go through a mob. We will be taking the 8/23 sailing on Liberty so will make sure to allocate enough time to walk back to the ship.

 

I am confused though. I thought the cruise line will have the water shuttle going straight from the cruise dock to St Mark's. After all they are charging money for it. Now it seems like you have to walk or take the shuttle bus to Piazza Roma, then a water shuttle from the Piazza Roma to elsewhere at Venice?

 

Curious - Is this the option for all cruise lines, or just Carnival and Costa? Are there lines for other cruise ships at dock?

[Pokemomma]

Thanks for the warning, I think I will rather walk the 15 minutes than to go through a mob. We will be taking the 8/23 sailing on Liberty so will make sure to allocate enough time to walk back to the ship.

 

I am confused though. I thought the cruise line will have the water shuttle going straight from the cruise dock to St Mark's. After all they are charging money for it. Now it seems like you have to walk or take the shuttle bus to Piazza Roma, then a water shuttle from the Piazza Roma to elsewhere at Venice?

 

Curious - Is this the option for all cruise lines, or just Carnival and Costa? Are there lines for other cruise ships at dock?

 

No, it IS about a 15 to 20 minute walk. I know because I walked it the day before. It was blazing hot and I was very tired after a full day so I wimped out and chose not to walk. Big mistake. As for the vaporetto 'right next to the ship'....well, that's another of Carnival's untruth's. The vaporetto is about a 7 minute walk to the other side of the port. Once there, you have to buy an 11E ticket to ride the Vaporetto to St. Marks and then get in line. Wait for 30 minutes in the heat and sun with no water or information of any kind from Carnival (no rep, no nothing) finally get on the Vaporetto and be stuffed 'down below' with 100 other miserable, sweaty passengers for the ride to St. Mark's. Now, I've never been seasick in my life, but I truly thought I was going to lose it on this one. After sitting, rocking in pretty rough water for about 20 minutes waiting for the ONE vaporetto dock/slip to become open, my family and I finally ask the driver if we could come UP because I was going to throw up and/or pass out. Although a steaming 97 degrees, the 'fresh' air really helped and once we were off the vaporetto, escaping away from St. Mark's into the back streets of Venice was a huge relief. My suggestion is do Venice early in the morning if at all possible. If not, pace yourself carefully. Carry plenty of water and stop often for beer and gelato :D.

 

Back to the transportation issues, there is a shuttle BUS from Piazza Roma (my mistake) and I believe a vaporetto back to the dock however we didn't find that out until after all this happened. We thought we had to go back to St. Mark's to catch this particular vaporetto.

 

Another issue with Carnival....you can walk to the vaporetto dock (at the port) or you can take a shuttle for 5E........whoa, what? It's a max 7 minute walk. The shuttle bus waits to fill the bus and then drives down the dock past Liberty I'd say 1/4 to 1/2 mile and drops you at the vaporetto dock....all for 5E. Some of our CC friends took this option by mistake. Let me just tell you how angry they were....no, maybe I won't. :D

 

Bottom line. Don't allow Carnival to make your decisions for you and know that they don't tell the truth. Research this all carefully. There are many ways to navigate Venice and Carnival should not necessarily be one of those choices. If you have a larger group, hire a water taxi. Expensive for 2 but not for 8.....ask people to join you....everyone is looking to either get into or out of Venice for a reasonable price. At Piazza Roma you can even hire a car-taxi....just look around and yell 'anyone want to share a cab to the ship'. You'll have no trouble making new friends. Don't forget that the vaporetto's stop running at around midnight or 1:00 and you could get stranded if you're not careful....the same friends that rode the shady-shuttle almost did.

 

Sorry...my thoughts are kind of all over the place. At any rate, enjoy....Venice is wonderful even with all the craziness.

 

If you have questions about other ports or Liberty, feel free to email me at jeatonca@yahoo.com

 

Julie

[Capsu78]

Not to CYA for Carnival. but there are some cultural aspects at work here. Some other cultures simply believe in survival of the fittest over orderly que's. I have noticed it at places like Disneyland/world where some groups from other countries simply "mob up" when transportation arrives. Won't name names, as I get accused of not being "sensitive" enough (...which hurts my feelings... Hey, maybe Im the victim now!)

Anyway, along other cultural lines, friends just got back from Greece where it is apparently in vouge for well dressed travelers from certain Middle East countries to taunt Americans by walking up behind them saying "Jihad... Jihad". At first he didn't know what they were saying, but then it happened again, and then again. He was into avoiding conflict, especially when on vacation, but it may be important to wear your thick skin when traveling abroad in current times.

[zaandam_2]

pokemomma - rant away. at least you're not b***hing about smoking :D

[voyagerfl]

You have to be very careful.......guess it's the difference in culture.......wonder where those Costa Pass. were from. On our Cruise this year on MSC cruise lines there were certain (hate to profile...But..) groups of foreign pass. that were very rude (from certain countries) and exhibited similar behavior.....

They would just as soon knock you down and walk on your body !

 

Thankfully you or that kid were not hurt !

Guess those other Pass. figured they did not care if the bus was for Carnival as long as it was going to the Port.....:(

[redskin80]

[i am confused though. I thought the cruise line will have the water shuttle going straight from the cruise dock to St Mark's. After all they are charging money for it. Now it seems like you have to walk or take the shuttle bus to Piazza Roma, then a water shuttle from the Piazza Roma to elsewhere at Venice?

 

Curious - Is this the option for all cruise lines, or just Carnival and Costa? Are there lines for other cruise ships at dock?

 

When we did this trip last summer, we took a water taxi, which is a short walk from where the ship is. This is less than 5 min, it cost 6 Euro , get onthe Vaparetto and gone to St Marks Square.

 

We never took a bus, and that evening, we took a late vaparetto which left us off at a point where we walked back to the ship. It was about 15 minutes and very easy.

[lghgh]

We had a problem with the shuttle service in Dubrovnik on our May Liberty cruise. We did have a young CC rep trying to help with the busses. Bless his heart I bet he was glad to get back to the ship that day people were screaming, cussing, pushing and were packed around each bus. He was doing his best to get control but he was lost in a sea of people. I just knew someone was going to get hurt and I was praying that it was not going to be me and mine. As a bus would arrive (they were marked with signs in the windows) people would cover it I think even the bus drivers were afraid the bus we were able to get on left before it was full. If you have ever seen one of those movies where the rats or bugs surround what they are going to eat before the lights go dim then you kind of have a picture of how it was. Very scary! Even with the problems it was a GREAT CRUISE!

[LRene]

Well, it doesn't sound like they've gotten their act together this year either. We experienced the same crowds, pushing, shoving, sense of panic last year when we took the shuttle ONCE.

 

There is a line called Alliguna that runs from the port to St. Marks - straight shot - no stops and is a 5 min. walk from the ship. The ticket booth is right there on the dock clearly marked "Alliguna" and if I remember correctly, it's 10E round trip. We used them on the first day since we had no particular schedule or tours booked. I echo what's been said about doing St. Mark's square earlier in the day for less crowds if nothing else.

 

The CCL shuttles take you to Piazzale Roma where you can catch the ACTV line. Or you can walk there in 15-20 min. Catch the #1 or #82 which has several stops on the Grand Canal including San Marco. If you plan to ride numerous times, buy the 24 hour pass - it's a lot less expensive - a little over 9E I believe. I recommend catching one of those and riding the entire canal at least once. P.Roma is near one end of the canal.

 

We took the Alliguna in to St. Marks, went to the ACTV booth there and bought the 24 hour pass and rode as much as we wanted that day AND the next. When we were ready to go back to the ship on the first day, we caught the Alliguna at St. Marks back right to the dock. The second day, we did the shuttle....pretty much a nightmare as described.

[seamama1]

I was on the July 18 sailing of Carnival Liberty and was involved in an incident in Venice that could have turned out badly. I'm sharing this only as a head's up to anyone taking a Carnival shuttle back to the ship from Venice. My intention is not to slam Carnival (although I do blame them for not having assistance at hand) but to insure safety. I don't know how other cruise lines handle the shuttle issue in Venice. I hope it's not the same as Carnival.

 

Here it is:

 

Well, after reading your letter, Jef and Arlene, I suppose I should also write Carnival regarding the Venice shuttle incident.

 

For those of you who hadn't heard this story......the last day in Venice, when we were ready to return to the ship (about 1:00 pm.) we went to the designated area at the bus station or train station or whatever it was and began to look for the bus. Of course, there were no Carnival reps on hand to assist us and we watched for about 15 minutes before we saw a bus pull up. Upon RUNNING to where the bus was, we discovered a line of about 150 people waiting to get on the shuttle. It was very, very hot and very crowded and I said to Michael 'let's forget this....I'll manage the walk because I can't deal with the pushing and shoving'.

 

As we began to walk away, another shuttle pulled up and we proceeded to line up at the door of that bus. I was near the front of the line and Michael somehow got shoved back about a dozen people. Suddenly all the people started to push in toward the door....being short, I felt like I was in a mosh pit but could do nothing to stop the crush and just had to let myself be smooshed into this throng of people. Then al hell broke loose. The bus door opened and three men -- grown, adult men -- tried to push me out of the way (which was impossible because I was just one little sardine) and force their way onto the bus....then 2 women started to do the same. The bus attendant kept yelling "Carnival Liberty only -- show me your card". The people shoving were NOT Carnival passengers. As it turned out, they were from the Costa ship....did not speak english (or acted as though they didn't) and they refused to move and just kept shoving until eventually two of the men managed to get on the bus. At that point, I was getting panicky and said to one of the women 'Carnival Liberty only, please let me by' whereby she turned around and slammed her elbow into my throat. Well that was FUN. I don't take kindly to being physically abused and let loose with the 'f'ing b*' and get the 'f' out of my way ....she stood there for about 10 seconds, called me a bitch and walked away -- what the hell? There was a Carnival passenger next to me trying to hang onto her son who seemed to be about 8 or 10 years old but the crowd forced them apart pushing her back into the crowd and pushing him toward the bus. All the time she was yelling...'please help my MINOR child!'. I yelled back that we'd get him and somehow another woman and I managed to get the kid on the bus and eventually his mother and Michael managed to get on along with a few of ya'll here.

 

Once the bus was full, the passengers forced the attendant guy to throw the two couples that didn't belong (and who played dumb) off the bus.

 

What a nightmare. What if something had happened to that child? Hell, what if something had happened to me? This can't be the first time this kind of thing has happened.

 

Okay, now I'm pissed again.....going to write a letter.

 

J

__________________

Julie

 

Mexican Rivera - Admiral Stardancer - 1988

Hong Kong/China - Ocean Pearl - 6/88

Bermuda - Celebrity Horizon - 10/90

W. Caribbean - RCCL Majesty of the Seas - 4/92

E. Caribbean - RCCL Monarch of the Seas - 5/92

Mexican Rivera - RCCL Viking Serenade - 1995

Alaska - Celebrity Galaxy - 7/00

W. Caribbean - Carnival Triumph - 10/01

Hawaii - NCL Norwegian Star - 4/02

W. Caribbean - Celebrity Horizon - 4/04

Mexico 3-day - RCCL Monarch of the Seas - 10/04

So. Caribbean - Carnival Pride - 1/05

Caribbean - Celebrity Millenium - 4/05

Mexico 3-day - RCCL Monarch of the Seas - 9/05

Europe - Carnival Liberty - 7/06

 

What a cattle call! I wonder why ya just didn't fergit it and take a taxi. Mob rules!

 

Actually, Carnival subcontracts with ground operators all over the world. They have no say in how the tour/transfer/excursion is handled. You can't really blame Carnival for this. Carnival employees are not permitted to work for these ground operators.

 

The best thing you could have done is complete the comment card and in the area designated for "comments" give a brief run down of the transfer mess. Then, upon arrival home, write a letter to Carnival Customer Service and, in a civilized tone, using names you may recall, advise them of this. Carnival does review all comment cards and reads professionally written letters. If they get enough complaints about a ground operator, they have been known to drop them.

[longislandfamily]

 

Curious - Is this the option for all cruise lines, or just Carnival and Costa? Are there lines for other cruise ships at dock?

 

Just got back from the Princess Med Cruise. Princess had a water shuttle to a pier near St. Marks after you checked in to the ship, or $10 per person unlimited use. However, if you had not purchased a Princess transfer for arrival, there was no assistance getting to the ship with your luggage for check-in. That was a costly nightmare, that ended up costing the 8 of us around 220 euros. We took a water taxi from our hotel, that could only go to Piazelle Roma, they charged us extra for the luggage. Then we had to hire 2 taxis to get us and our luggage down to the pier. 8 people, 2 were grandmas, 16 pieces of luggage, we weren't walking.

[notmartha]

Just got back from the Princess Med Cruise. Princess had a water shuttle to a pier near St. Marks after you checked in to the ship, or $10 per person unlimited use. However, if you had not purchased a Princess transfer for arrival, there was no assistance getting to the ship with your luggage for check-in. That was a costly nightmare, that ended up costing the 8 of us around 220 euros. We took a water taxi from our hotel, that could only go to Piazelle Roma, they charged us extra for the luggage. Then we had to hire 2 taxis to get us and our luggage down to the pier. 8 people, 2 were grandmas, 16 pieces of luggage, we weren't walking.

 

Maybe that's why I got confused. Must have read it on the Princess board as I was considering taking Princess a while back, and assumed that all cruise lines does the same thing. I guess this is probably where Carnival's lack of experience in the European ports hurts them.

 

Thanks for the info!

[notmartha]

Pokemomma -

 

THanks for the additional info. I just assumed that if Carnival takes the money, the least they will do is to get you from point A to point B in a safe manner.

 

Will look into other options. I think someone posted recent changes to policy for the water taxi at the maritime station that makes that option not very convenient either.

 

Guess will either hoof it to Piazza Roma and walk or take ACTV from there, or see if we can catch an Alilaguna water bus.

 

Venice in July/August is probably one of the prime tourist times, so I imagine that with the heat makes it unpleasant.

 

Well, I am booked mostly with Carnival for the tours, so I sure hope they do a better job taking care of the passengers.

[notmartha]

Not to CYA for Carnival. but there are some cultural aspects at work here. Some other cultures simply believe in survival of the fittest over orderly que's. I have noticed it at places like Disneyland/world where some groups from other countries simply "mob up" when transportation arrives. Won't name names, as I get accused of not being "sensitive" enough (...which hurts my feelings... Hey, maybe Im the victim now!)

Anyway, along other cultural lines, friends just got back from Greece where it is apparently in vouge for well dressed travelers from certain Middle East countries to taunt Americans by walking up behind them saying "Jihad... Jihad". At first he didn't know what they were saying, but then it happened again, and then again. He was into avoiding conflict, especially when on vacation, but it may be important to wear your thick skin when traveling abroad in current times.

 

Saying "Jihad" is more an act of intimidation nowadays with all the terriorists activities than just being obnoxious and expressing dislike for US.

 

We've encountered some milder form of expressions of displeasures with Americans about 10 years back at a Paris subway station when we were visiting. Guess the guy can tell we are Americans. So it can happen in somewhat 'friendlier' countries.

 

On cultural differences, people in countries or cities with high population density are just used to being jammed like sardines into trains/busses, and pushing/shoving is pretty common. Personal space is unheard of, and niceties goes out the window. NYC was like that, and so was Hong Kong. Cutting in line is the norm in some places, and unacceptable in others.

 

But jabbing at a person's throat and pushing a young kid around is a bit extreme.

[AustinSooner]

Not to CYA for Carnival. but there are some cultural aspects at work here. Some other cultures simply believe in survival of the fittest over orderly que's. I have noticed it at places like Disneyland/world where some groups from other countries simply "mob up" when transportation arrives. ....

 

Yes I can say this is true for Germany and many places in ASIA. It is very stress for some of us orderly people...

 

Yes... yes... I know Germans and some of the ASIA's are the most orderly when it comes to business, mechanical systems, etc but when it comes to line management they can't cut it. I have seen people just walk up to what appears to be an orderly line and start their own branch. Once one person does it, it because madness...

[carlmm]

some groups from other countries simply "mob up" when transportation arrives .....

Yes I can say this is true for Germany

 

Oh, thank you very much. Of course I need to take objection against this bashing.

I am sorry if you had negative experiences with Germans but please note that it would be inaccurate to generalize this.

 

Maybe bad behaviour like that one in Venice has more to do with which individual people you encounter, what their social and educational background is etc.

[popcorngal]

I have encountered this type of mob mentality in places all over the world. The nationality shall remain nameless, but suffice it to say that whether it be a shuttle or an elevator, they gangpile as many people on as they can. I understand this is normal in their everyday life, but not in mine! I actually had to close an elevator door on several people who were trying to pack into an elevator that was already unsafe! I thought, "sorry, I'm not dying so your sorry butt can get in here!"

 

We also have seen the anti-American sentiment as far back as the late 60's. We were on a cruise and stopped at a French port. Right on the dock there was a huge handwritten sign that said "Yankee go home". So we did, taking all of our tourist dollars with us. Didn't spend one franc in that port, nor at any of the other ports in that country. And believe me, neither did the vast majority of the other passengers. Don't like us? Then you won't like our money either!

[winewanderer]

Sorry this incident happened to you. I'm really glad you're ok. Horrible to hear. Carnival obviously needs some personnel there at the bus pickup to keep things organized.

 

We were on the Liberty May 19th and walked to/from the ship to Piazelle Roma to catch the vaporettos or just continued to walk. It's an easy walk. We generally avoid the cattle calls.

 

I didn't hear of any incidents like this on our sailing.

[Mrsosci]

We were on the June sailing of Liberty. We heard the same comments about the shuttle in Venice - long lines, pushing, etc. We avoided it by walking to stop. It is about 20min. We purchased an 24 hour pass at the tourist info booth in bottom of parking garage - lower case i on sign. The cost was 12E each. We caught #1 and went right to St. Mark's. It took about 15 min and arrived around 3:30PM. Walked right into Palace and St. Mark's Church. No line. Stayed in St. Mark's area until midnight and caught #1 back to Plaza Roma. There were a bunch of us from ship on water bus and we all walked back together for safety. (Lots of laughing and fun) Next day we used the same line and jumped off and on water bus at various stops. Not trouble at all. It was very hot but stood on water bus by entry ways. There was always a breeze. We are over the hill in age and had no problem making the walk - even carrying bags.

[seamama1]

Pokemomma -

 

THanks for the additional info. I just assumed that if Carnival takes the money, the least they will do is to get you from point A to point B in a safe manner.

 

Will look into other options. I think someone posted recent changes to policy for the water taxi at the maritime station that makes that option not very convenient either.

 

Guess will either hoof it to Piazza Roma and walk or take ACTV from there, or see if we can catch an Alilaguna water bus.

 

Venice in July/August is probably one of the prime tourist times, so I imagine that with the heat makes it unpleasant.

 

Well, I am booked mostly with Carnival for the tours, so I sure hope they do a better job taking care of the passengers.

 

Carnival has nothing to do with the operation of the tours or transportation in ports, etc. They offer pre-purchase of shore excursions and the like "for the convenience of the guest only". All providers of these services are outside contractors and operate solely independent of Carnival. This also includes all the onboard sites such as the spa, beauty salon, excercise room, gift shops, photographers, etc. Carnival will not have any participation in "doing a better job taking care of the passengers".

 

If a shore tour or excursion or, in this case, transportation is not up to expectations, you should reflect it on the comment cards and a follow-up letter to Customer Service. If Carnival receives enough "bad" reviews of a particular company, they have been known to drop them and contract with someone else.

 

Carnival has really explicit information in their terms and conditions, which many don't read. They are not responsible for anything other that the cruise itself, the ship and services in which Carnival employees directly participate. Read the contract. It is interesting stuff and would certainly be an eye-opener for those who complain and don't do anything about it.