NCL/NCLA distinction (or lack thereof).

[VegasGreen]

I just wanted to try and throw in my input on all the recent posts stating that NCL/NCLA are totally separate companies, just owned by the same parent like the Carnival Corp. lines.

 

While technically you could make this point, the fact of the matter is that, save the one BIG onboard difference (crew nationality), they are EXACTLY the same company shoreside. NCLA is really not even considered a different line -- it is just a sort of offshoot brand identity. I was a shoreside employee with NCL/A over the past few years, and you can rest assured there is literally ZERO distinction between the products in Miami.

 

When you call customer service or reservations or Latitudes or WHATEVER -- you're talking to the same people in the same building. When you escalate a problem or an issue - same management. Same president, same CEO, same trainers shoreside, same everything. It's completely different from the Mickey Arison "hands-off" model that operates Carnival (in Miami), Princess (in California), HAL (in Seattle), and Costa (US office - Ft. Lauderdale).

 

There are some agents and supervisors specifically trained on the "Hawaii Desk", but that has been in place long before NCLA, and even up until her departure those people covered the Wind as well. They're the same agents that moved over from regular NCL res/customer service to help with call flow and will move back when the calls change. NCL's "Top Accounts" desk is ambiguous, and services Top Account agencies for both NCL and NCLA. Heck, they're all on the same floor in Miami, mixed in together. Revenue Management, Passenger Courtesy, Latitudes, Automated Support -- all the EXACT same people. No difference. There's no NCLA signage on the building, and hardly an acknowledgement that it's a seperate entity at ALL, much less a separate line.

 

I'm not disputing the differences with the onboard product. Yes, the crews are completely different... that's where the "A" in NCLA becomes a LOT more relevant. I'm just stating that NCLA is completely different from the Carnival Corp lines, and even far more integrated than the RCI/Celebrity model. When it comes to SHORESIDE, same ball of wax.

[Deck10 007]

I just wanted to try and throw in my input on all the recent posts stating that NCL/NCLA are totally separate companies, just owned by the same parent like the Carnival Corp. lines.

 

While technically you could make this point, the fact of the matter is that, save the one BIG onboard difference (crew nationality), they are EXACTLY the same company shoreside. NCLA is really not even considered a different line -- it is just a sort of offshoot brand identity. I was a shoreside employee with NCL/A over the past few years, and you can rest assured there is literally ZERO distinction between the products in Miami.

 

NCL and NCLA are a world or a universe apart. Criusers don't deal or care about shoreside staff. Only ship crew matters to them. And you hit the nail on the head when you talk about crew nationality. The parent company of both companies is Star Cruises. If you know that the Star Cruises crew are paid $4000 per year, works 12 hour shift 7 days a week and sleep 6 to a room, then you would know the difference with the American crew on NCLA. Forget about the American pay scale. There is the American labour laws and labour unions to deal with. Do I have to say anything more.

[VegasGreen]

NCL and NCLA are a world or a universe apart. Criusers don't deal or care about shoreside staff. Only ship crew matters to them. And you hit the nail on the head when you talk about crew nationality. The parent company of both companies is Star Cruises. If you know that the Star Cruises crew are paid $4000 per year, works 12 hour shift 7 days a week and sleep 6 to a room, then you would know the difference with the American crew on NCLA. Forget about the American pay scale. There is the American labour laws and labour unions to deal with. Do I have to say anything more.

 

That's what I said. It's just been said on some other posts that these were completely separate operations, and I just wanted to share my experience having been a part of these operations. NCL and NCLA are only a universe apart in one singular way - the onboard staff. Yes, that makes a big impact on the onboard experience for the guest, I'm just stating that from the company's perspective, that's one piece of a very large puzzle. And I would completely disgaree that cruisers only care about shipboard staff.

[shoreguy]

I'm not disputing the differences with the onboard product. Yes, the crews are completely different... that's where the "A" in NCLA becomes a LOT more relevant. I'm just stating that NCLA is completely different from the Carnival Corp lines, and even far more integrated than the RCI/Celebrity model. When it comes to SHORESIDE, same ball of wax.

 

I agree 100% - I just got the 2007-2008 brochure and NCL makes no effort to separate the two products.

 

It is import that people understand there is a difference in the onboard product and perhaps CC is one of the few places that is made clear (even if it is as clear as mud somtimes):D

[tomluvsaida]

The one big difference you didn't mention was the training which occurs off shore in Maryland. Although this is off shore I guess you could argue that it is an on-board product. Doesn't the NCLA crew go through a lot more rigorous training than the international crew? Does the international crew get any on shore training at all?

[mikedw]

The NCLA crews go through 3-4 weeks of training at the Seafarers Intl. Union training facility at Piney Pt., MD. Over half of the training deals with firefighting, first aid, emergency procedures, and boat handling. It doesn't matter what your job is, coast guard requires certain training for everyone. I read somewhere that on the intl. ships they go through 1 day of training on the ship, then they're off to there dept.

 

Michael

[tomluvsaida]

The NCLA crews go through 3-4 weeks of training at the Seafarers Intl. Union training facility at Piney Pt., MD. Over half of the training deals with firefighting, first aid, emergency procedures, and boat handling. It doesn't matter what your job is, coast guard requires certain training for everyone. I read somewhere that on the intl. ships they go through 1 day of training on the ship, then they're off to there dept.

 

Michael

Thanks, that explains a lot.

[VegasGreen]

The one big difference you didn't mention was the training which occurs off shore in Maryland. Although this is off shore I guess you could argue that it is an on-board product. Doesn't the NCLA crew go through a lot more rigorous training than the international crew? Does the international crew get any on shore training at all?

 

Yes, the NCLA crew members go through training at Piney Point. This is essentially due to the fact that most NCLA crew members have zero shipboard experience prior to coming aboard, and Piney Point helps them acclimate to what life onboard ship will be. This was instituted AFTER the Norwegian Sky/Pride of Aloha chaos, and has helped to alleviate turnover to a degree.

 

It's not necessarily more rigorous, it's just a basic "know what you're getting into" thing. The International crew is just as intensively trained, it's just that it's onboard ship, and there are FAR more repeat contracts onboard, so operating an entire land-based facility just for the handful of first time int'l employees wouldn't be feasible.

 

I included the PP facility with the "onboard crew" difference between NCL and NCLA because it is much more closely linked to shipboard operations than to corporate in Miami. The folks that set up PP and the employed-by-NCL/A trainers at PP are the same folks who work in NCL corporate and train for NCL as well, in other capacities.

[electricron]

Let's take a quick look at the Gentling Group's Corporate structure.

I. Gentling Berhad.

__A. Gentling International.

____1. London Clubs International

____2 .Maxims Casino Club (London)

____3.Stanley Leisure PLC (UK)

__B. Resort's World Bhd

____1. Genting Highlands Resort

____2. Awana chain of hotel resorts (Malaysia)

____3. Star Cruises Limited

______a. Star Cruises

______b. NCL

________i. NCL

________ii. NCLA

________iii. Orient Lines

______c.Cruise Ferries

__C. Asiatic Development Berhad

____1. Plantation (palm oil)

____2. Genting Sanyen Paper and Packaging

____3. Gentling Power

____4. Genting Oil & Gas

NCL, NCLA, and Orient Lines fall under NCL, but all of NCL falls under Star Cruises Limited. I don't think many will compare a cruise aboard the Orient cruise ship Marco Polo as a sail aboard a NCL/NCLA ship. Neither would I expect many to compare a cruise aboard the NCL ship Norwegian Spirit as a sail aboard the Star Cruises ship Superstar Virgo, although they are sister ships and look very much alike. While NCLA is just a part of NCL, so is Orient Lines. Marketing wise, NCLA and NCL are basically the same. But, although under the same board of directors, Orient Lines and NCL/NCLA are completely different.

[johnql]

I would completely disgaree that cruisers only care about shipboard staff.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I don't care about the shoreside operations at all because I do. However, I would say that the shipboard staff is by far more important to me. After all, the cruise is ultimately the product that I'm purchasing. If I had to express it in terms of percentage, I'd say the shipboard staff/experience is 90% important to me and the shoreside operations is 10% important. This is based on my own experience, which is that I have rarely had the need (or even desire) to deal with a cruise line's shoreside operations, preferring instead to book thru a TA and then deal only with the TA. But I do understand that there is always a chance of that happening if something radically goes wrong with a booking or the cruise itself.

[VegasGreen]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I don't care about the shoreside operations at all because I do. However, I would say that the shipboard staff is by far more important to me. After all, the cruise is ultimately the product that I'm purchasing. If I had to express it in terms of percentage, I'd say the shipboard staff/experience is 90% important to me and the shoreside operations is 10% important. This is based on my own experience, which is that I have rarely had the need (or even desire) to deal with a cruise line's shoreside operations, preferring instead to book thru a TA and then deal only with the TA. But I do understand that there is always a chance of that happening if something radically goes wrong with a booking or the cruise itself.

 

Oh, I agree... generally, you're right -- especially when all goes well. But even in an unseen fashion, shoreside DOES have their hands in everything.

 

I agree that in NCLA's case, it makes a HUGE onboard difference because of the crew. I just wanted to state how the entity "NCLA" is run in Miami.

[VegasGreen]

Let's take a quick look at the Gentling Group's Corporate structure.

I. Gentling Berhad.

__A. Gentling International.

____1. London Clubs International

____2 .Maxims Casino Club (London)

____3.Stanley Leisure PLC (UK)

__B. Resort's World Bhd

____1. Genting Highlands Resort

____2. Awana chain of hotel resorts (Malaysia)

____3. Star Cruises Limited

______a. Star Cruises

______b. NCL

________i. NCL

________ii. NCLA

________iii. Orient Lines

______c.Cruise Ferries

__C. Asiatic Development Berhad

____1. Plantation (palm oil)

____2. Genting Sanyen Paper and Packaging

____3. Gentling Power

____4. Genting Oil & Gas

NCL, NCLA, and Orient Lines fall under NCL, but all of NCL falls under Star Cruises Limited. I don't think many will compare a cruise aboard the Orient cruise ship Marco Polo as a sail aboard a NCL/NCLA ship. Neither would I expect many to compare a cruise aboard the NCL ship Norwegian Spirit as a sail aboard the Star Cruises ship Superstar Virgo, although they are sister ships and look very much alike. While NCLA is just a part of NCL, so is Orient Lines. Marketing wise, NCLA and NCL are basically the same. But, although under the same board of directors, Orient Lines and NCL/NCLA are completely different.

 

I agree as far as what you're saying -- the onboard product IS completely different. However, guess what -- OLI is in the EXACT same boat. It's the same people on the same floor and the same departments in the same building with an NCL logo on it. The supervisor you might escalate a NCL or NCLA issue to is the very same one to take your OLI issue.

 

I'm simply talking shoreside here -- but Orient is even MORE of a blip on the radar. There are 4 or 5 reservations agents and a couple of supervisors trained on OLI, and they also deal with either the Hawaii itineraries or standard NCL stuff. The exact same managers, same passenger services departments, etc.

 

The group trained on OLI gets smaller and smaller all the time. When a new shoreside hire goes through the training/acclimation process, it is ALL "welcome to NCL". They do spend a considerable amount of time on NCLA, but it is not explained as a separate line at all -- just as "our U.S. flagged ships in Hawaii"...some agents are trained on NCLA right out of the gates, some get it a little down the road. That being said, OLI is mentioned maybe for ONE minute on their second or third day at work. There are no signs, no pictures, no nothing -- 95% of NCL/A agents couldn't tell you the tonnage of the Marco Polo... the handful of people trained to take OLI calls are literally it. Otherwise, your documents, air/sea tickets, past passenger stuff, everything -- all comes from the same folks who send your NCL or NCLA stuff.

 

OLI will probably be a total thing of the past within a couple of years. I can't TELL you what an afterthought it is as far as emphasis and publicity.

[Checkmate1955]

I am happy to see this discussion and hope it clears up the position that several C.C. posters has taken.... That position being that NCLA is a totally separate cruise line and that if you are unhappy with NCLA then you should not take it out on NCL... The O.P. has explained that very well... What is NCL is NCLA is NCL.... A rose by any other name is still a rose.... I for one would like NCL to take the credit for the good and the blame of all of the many complaints that NCLA has received with the three ships in Hawaii and the many start up problems that occurred... I sailed on the Pride of Aloha and had a nice cruise.... Not special and not terrible... They did a good job overall but failed in several ways... That was in the forth month of the start up.... You all remember the many concerns and problems that the P.O. Aloha went through... I understand that the next two ships, the Pride of America and the Pride of Hawaii suffered the same start up problems.... Those problems were the responsibility of NCL... NCL planned, developed and managed those ships and the conversion to being U.S.A. flagged ships... Give NCL both the credit and the blame... They were responsibile then and now...

[Shawnee Indian]

Hey..........

 

As a Simple "Polish Guy" who loves to cut through the Clutter...

 

Why on cruisecritic.com - Is NCLA NOT A SEPERATE BOARD FROM NCL????

[Retired not Expired]

Using a couple of you alls logic, since I own and drive a Chevy, I have driven a Caddy. Afterall, they are both a product of the same company.

 

Use all the logic you want to justify, NCL to NCLA is still apples to oranges.

[shoreguy]

Hey..........

 

As a Simple "Polish Guy" who loves to cut through the Clutter...

 

Why on cruisecritic.com - Is NCLA NOT A SEPERATE BOARD FROM NCL????

 

It should be and has been suggested.

[Cosmopolitan]

Hey..........

 

Why on cruisecritic.com - Is NCLA NOT A SEPERATE BOARD FROM NCL????

 

Great idea:)

 

I agree!

[VegasGreen]

Using a couple of you alls logic, since I own and drive a Chevy, I have driven a Caddy. Afterall, they are both a product of the same company.

 

Use all the logic you want to justify, NCL to NCLA is still apples to oranges.

 

No one's justifying anything, I don't think anyway... just sharing what I know about NCL/A - I don't think any of us said the onboard experience wasn't different... just that corporate is exactly the same...

 

i.e., to get or service a Caddy, you go to a Caddy dealership or call cadillac directly. Likewise with Chevy. NCL & NCLA are the same thing... it would be more like the early 90's with Chevy and Geo -- there weren't any Geo dealerships (at least around me), but you could buy Geo at Chevy dealerships... they were built on Chevy platforms, but were totally different cars. Only difference with the analogy is NCL and NCLA are even more similar than that. Just saying how it is at corporate, that's all.

[honestguy]

vegas what is your personal opinion of NCL after working for them?

[VegasGreen]

vegas what is your personal opinion of NCL after working for them?

 

Generally positive. Of course, there are several things that I think could be done more efficiently, but for the most part the problems are no greater than any large company. Things CAN get caught up in red tape hell at times, and information could be shared between departments much more freely, but most companies could say that... I will say that past all the little hiccups I witnessed, the vast majority of folks there (esp in management) really do care about the customers and try to do as much as they can... and I can tell you that upper management is nothing if not BIG thinkers, all about innovation. It's a good group of people, it really is. A lot more of a family vibe than what I've experienced elsewhere. There tends to be some occasional disconnect and turnover at the lowest levels, but that happens everywhere... unfortunately, at NCL those are the folks who answer the phones most of the time.

 

Long story short (too late), it's a good group who try hard. I still have a lot of good friends there.

[Checkmate1955]

Good solid info from a previous NCL employee and some insight into the corporate interworkings of NCL.... Thanks... When NCLa has it's own web page, offices, etc and stops using the same exact management of NCL then you can call NCLa a free standing cruise company.... It is a division of NCL and is run daily by NCL.... What happens at NCLa is directly connected to NCL and NCL is responsible for the good and bad that NCLa has experienced.... Long live NCL!

[Jim Gallup]

NCL President is Colin Veitch, based in Florida

NCLA Managing Director is Robert Kritzman, based in Honolulu.

 

NCL Human Resources is based in Florida.

NCLA Human Resources is based in Honolulu.

 

NCL Marine Operations is based in Florida.

NCLA Marine Operations is based in Honolulu.

 

NCL and NCLA share Public Relations in Florida.

NCL and NCLA share Call Center and Reservations in Florida.

NCL and NCLA share Legal and Finance Offices in Florida.

 

If it's the ship and the crew that matter to you, they all work for a separate company- NCLA - in Honolulu. If you are concerned with Legal, PR, or Finance, then you will be talking with NCL in Florida.

[Jim Gallup]

NCL President is Colin Veitch, based in Florida

NCLA Managing Director is Robert Kritzman, based in Honolulu.

 

NCL Human Resources is based in Florida.

NCLA Human Resources is based in Honolulu.

 

NCL Marine Operations is based in Florida.

NCLA Marine Operations is based in Honolulu.

 

NCL and NCLA share Public Relations in Florida.

NCL and NCLA share Call Center and Reservations in Florida.

NCL and NCLA share Legal and Finance Offices in Florida.

 

If it's the ship and the crew that matter to you, they all work for a separate company- NCLA - in Honolulu. If you are concerned with Legal, PR, or Finance, then you will be talking with NCL in Florida.

By the way, it was not NCL's idea to set it up this way. US Law requires that NCLA be owned and operated by a US Owned company. They are legally forced to operate as an independent entity.

[VegasGreen]

NCL President is Colin Veitch, based in Florida

NCLA Managing Director is Robert Kritzman, based in Honolulu.

 

NCL Human Resources is based in Florida.

NCLA Human Resources is based in Honolulu.

 

NCL Marine Operations is based in Florida.

NCLA Marine Operations is based in Honolulu.

 

NCL and NCLA share Public Relations in Florida.

NCL and NCLA share Call Center and Reservations in Florida.

NCL and NCLA share Legal and Finance Offices in Florida.

 

If it's the ship and the crew that matter to you, they all work for a separate company- NCLA - in Honolulu. If you are concerned with Legal, PR, or Finance, then you will be talking with NCL in Florida.

 

NCLA isn't a separate company, by definition or otherwise. Kritzman was a NCL VP who was simply moved to Honolulu a couple of years ago to oversee NCLA operations. The buck stops at Colin Veitch (prior to T.K. Lim, of course) with both.

 

NCLA human resources in Honolulu are, as i have said, for shipboard/port crew and staff. Most of the hiring is done from job fairs on the mainland, and all shoreside support (besides the obvious marine ops that have to be local in HI) is in Miami.

 

All I have said here is that in Miami, NCL and NCLA are completely integrated and that management is the same. I never disagreed that shipboard it's an entirely different experience.

[Checkmate1955]

Thank you VegasGreen for your postings... You are correct and you have the background and experience to back your position.... Thanks for explaining the organization of NCL and their Hawaiian operation known (AKA)as NCLA...