Beware- American Airlines in Cunard packages

[bonni99]

Hi- just wanted to share this with the board- we were on the Qm2- 2-16 December and flew out and back with American Airlines. We found them definitely below the standards of BA and Virgin and most interestingly- they reduce the luggage allowances on flights back from the US!! Instead of 32kilos per piece you are only allowed 23 kilos or 50 pounds as their boards stated at Miami airport. Whether this applies to domestic flights in the US I am not sure. Had we known this before we wouldnt have packed so much- but with 6 formal nights and beachwear and daywear we found it hard to pack too light. On the way back- we had to pay excess baggage on one case and on another alothough over, the check in steward didnt seem to notice. I have not heard of BA or Virgin imposing such a restriction on return flights and we found it ridiculous and annoying when other Cunard passengers had return flights booked with BA and Virgin. I intend to write to Cunard to complain and to ask for our $25.00 back as we don't see why we should pay it.

[Kindlychap]

I intend to write to Cunard to complain and to ask for our $25.00 back as we don't see why we should pay it.

 

Is it really worth it for £12.50?

[bonni99]

I would have thought that it would be quite obvious that it is the principle at stake. We had just paid a hefty sum for our cruise and I think Cunard should also be aware of the policy- perhaps they may choose other airlines for future cruises... As I stated we were lucky it wasn't $50.00 for two bags and what of others who may have had 4 cases of 23 kilos- then that's $100.00...easy money indeed for American Airlines but an unnecessary stealth tax in my opinion.

[portsidetraveler]

If you knew you were flying American (or any other airline) it is best to check the airlines web site before you leave on these items. Here is the link for American that spells out the baggage rules and regulations.

http://www.aa.com/content/travelInformation/baggage/baggageAllowance.jhtml?anchorEvent=false.

 

Not all airlines have the same rules and these rules will change if you are a frequent flyer with status.

[Kindlychap]

I would have thought that it would be quite obvious that it is the principle at stake. We had just paid a hefty sum for our cruise and I think Cunard should also be aware of the policy- perhaps they may choose other airlines for future cruises... As I stated we were lucky it wasn't $50.00 for two bags and what of others who may have had 4 cases of 23 kilos- then that's $100.00...easy money indeed for American Airlines but an unnecessary stealth tax in my opinion.

 

Virgin say the following:

 

Two pieces of luggage per passenger, each weighing up to 23kg (51lbs). When added together, the three dimensions of any piece of luggage must not exceed 158cm (62in).

 

That's for cattle class, which I presume is what you went.

 

 

[bonni99]

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately American Airlines own website doesnt state that if you fly from London to the US then you can take 32 kilos and that the limit applies only on return flights- go figure that logic if you buy into their cop out explanation of free baggage.

 

I can understand economy airlines such as Ryanair charging additional fees as you are getting the flight at a bargain but AA is not cheap and their service is noway near as good as Virgin or even BA.

[Kindlychap]

I would have thought that it would be quite obvious that it is the principle at stake. We had just paid a hefty sum for our cruise and I think Cunard should also be aware of the policy- perhaps they may choose other airlines for future cruises... As I stated we were lucky it wasn't $50.00 for two bags and what of others who may have had 4 cases of 23 kilos- then that's $100.00...easy money indeed for American Airlines but an unnecessary stealth tax in my opinion.

 

You've been reading the Daily Mail too much.

 

Cunard book the cheapest possible flights to keep the holiday price down. If you want, they'll knock £150 from the invoice if you make your own flight arrangements. Can you do that for £150? I doubt it.

 

If you want a choice of flight etc., then don't take a Cunard flight. Book your own.

 

I have freedom of choice when I go to New York next month as I've booked sea only. Much easier, and I can fly in the carrier and cabin of my choice.

[travel-to-go]

MOst US airlines have reduced their domestic luggage to 50 pound each, two suitcases. They are also enforcing it, and Fort Lauderdale is one of the worst airports in that respect.

On many airlines, there was always a lower limit international vs. domestic. Expecially around the Caribben where you often had a smaller plane with lower load limits and stricter weight and balance requirements.

 

I rarely am able to fly anywehere, even without having to take formals and extra jewelry and shoes without going over. I have even had them give me a hassle with medical equipment which is not supposed to count for extra carry-on.

Karie,

who is glad airlines no longer charger PASSENGERS by the pound! :eek:

(Except Southwest, whom I understand will make you buy two seats if they deem you too fat. Hmmm, I wonder if you get half off for being skinny!)

[stowaway2k]

who is glad airlines no longer charger PASSENGERS by the pound! :eek:

(Except Southwest, whom I understand will make you buy two seats if they deem you too fat. Hmmm, I wonder if you get half off for being skinny!)

 

Next up...pay toilets. :o

[dougnewmanatsea]

Actually, British Airways is apparently Cunard UK's "first choice" airline, and last I checked, Cunard US said their first choice was Virgin.

 

Their contracts allow them to book into certain fare classes only. If those fare classes are sold out on one flight, they have to move on to a different flight.

 

When all the fare classes are sold out on all the flight, they stop selling air on that date altogether.

 

If you got on American it was probably because the fare classes they use (the discount fare classes) were full on the British Airways and Virgin flights.

 

Given that a full-fare seat can cost several times what a discount one does, I doubt you'd want them to book you into one of those classes - they'd have to charge you a lot more money.

 

If you want, you can deviate your airfare from what they chose. If their fare classes are sold out on the flight you want, then you'll pay the price difference to whatever the cheapest fare is. I find that usually either there is no difference (because their fare classes are open) or it's a huge difference (because you have to move up to a full-fare/unrestricted ticket). There's not much in between.

 

Of course you can decline their air altogether and go on your own, which I usually do, unless it is prohibitively expensive. Then you choose whatever you want.

 

As for baggage allowances, lots of airlines have different baggage allowances and yes they do vary by where you're flying to and/or from, what class you're travelling, what your frequent flyer status is and so on. If you normally travel on one or two airlines, I can certainly see why you might not realize that lots of other airlines may have different rules. Consider it a learning experience.

 

As for American's service levels, just be glad you don't have to deal with them all the time! Living in New York, flying to the West Coast takes me about as long as flying to Western Europe. At least when flying to Europe I can choose a foreign carrier and if I do wind up on a US airline (which I try to avoid), it's an international flight so they will feel obligated to at least make some sort of attempt at competing with the rest of the world's airlines. On domestic flights you can't choose a foreign airline and the American ones provide service that makes their already-poor international service look downright luxurious!

 

At this point I would say the very best domestic airline in the US is probably JetBlue - a budget carrier! It's not that they're really so great - but the planes are not as old and filthy as most of the other airlines', there's more legroom (that is, the seats are merely designed for the very short and very thin, whereas their other seats are clearly suitable only for malnourished five-year-olds and/or masochists) and they have personal TVs to make up for the lack of food. Can you imagine if somebody suggested that EasyJet was the best airline in Europe? You (and I) would think they were out of their minds! But in the US the budget airlines are probably the best - at least they don't pretend to be "full-service"! (Last time I flew to California I had over five hours to ponder what made the flight I was taking in a rather worn 757 with a ridiculously outdated entertainment system and a food service consisting of, I kid you not, a single individually-wrapped biscuit about the size of my thumb "full service". What a joke!)

 

And to make matters worse, American and most other US airlines insult their passengers by treating even flights to Hawaii and Alaska as identical to any other domestic flight! This means that in essence, if I want to fly from New York to Hawaii, I will get the same amount of service on my first flight from New York to Chicago as the second one from Chicago to Honolulu! Keep in mind that a flight from Chicago to Honolulu is longer than one from Chicago to London! That is, most likely, a packet of about five mini-pretzels and a tiny plastic cup filled with ice and a very little bit of soda... The same exact service whether I'm flying 400 miles or 4,000 miles!

 

Anyhow, sorry for that rant, but as I said, pity those of us who do most of our air travel within the US! I have become accustomed to the experience of air travel being about as pleasant as taking a city bus, except the bus is more often on time and probably cleaner!

[travel-to-go]

Kyle,

I do not want to imagine how they will make the pay scale if they switch to pay toilets!

 

Doug,

I rue the demise of Song- The crew seemed to genuinely adore their work, you could buy, reasonably, a snack 3- 5$ usually (salad, sandwich, wrap, doritos and nacho sauce, good'n plenties or Ike 'n Mikes or something) , from a menu, or even order in advance over the web. The airships were newer, had great entertainment system (including trivia which kind of made it like a family, competing against others on your flights by their name they chose and seat number)

<sigh>

Delta had to put me on a Continental flight coming back from my father's funeral, which was a hastily arranged set of flights, in the middle of summer, to and from Florida. I had not flown Continental in a long time (before the days when - was it Icahn bought them?) I was pleasantly surprised. Great flight attendants, full "meal" albeit a sandwich and cookie or something, and if you ask, they will always give you the entire soda can.

 

Karie,

who truly hates to fly commerical these days. Not worth the hassle.

[transat_jon]

Instead of 32kilos per piece you are only allowed 23 kilos or 50 pounds as their boards stated at Miami airport.....I have not heard of BA or Virgin imposing such a restriction on return flights...

Guess what : They Are!

 

From Feb07 BA are changing their policy and are cutting their luggage allowance down to the 23 kilo, 50lb. The maximum allowable weight for any one bag is 23kg so if you are over, the additional must be in another bag.

 

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/bgpolicy/public/en_gb

 

The number of bags you get is based on the class you are flying in. Economy is 1 bag, economy plus gives you two bags. Business+ allows three bags.

 

Here is the catch : If you're over the limit, you need to pay a flat rate for the additional bag : £30 domestic, £120 long haul.

 

This puts BA from being the best airline for luggage to amongst the worst.

 

They claim (bizarrely) the reason is for the change is to make things better for their passengers with Heathrow Terminal 5 coming on line. Funny how marketing departments can come out with this these lines : "We have made things better for you by charging you £120 for being a couple of lbs over your luggage limit."

 

I have done a recent survey of all major UK airlines and on the luggage front, http://www.flybe.com is going to be the best option from next year based on luggage allowance (25kg/55kg). Shame they are a joke when time keeping and customer service is concerned.

 

[cunardqueen]

Away back in 89 when Dan Air was on the go l decided to fly off to join my beloved QE2 Flew from Orkney to Aberdeen with BA then onto Dan Air and return air fare to Stanstead at only £79. Enjoyed a super 15day Canadian cruise and when the time came to fly home from Stanstead l was a tad over my allowance and they hit me with a charge of £99 excess baggage!!!!:eek: Of course l had no choice but pay up. There was no excess charge from BA on the homeward flight. Mindyou l was about 80 kilos over my allowance.

 

Hence since then l always use good old GNER and get a good deal on my 1st class ticket and make sure the guards van is reserved for the suitcases.

Of course in the good old days Cunard used to include "free" First class return rail fare anywhere within the UK to Southampton and you could pay the small £12.50 supplement and catch the boat train from Waterloo direct to the docks and really get into the cruising mode. Makes you wonder why they ever stopped the boat train service, it was such a good idea!!!!

 

I mean how can airlines impose such a tiny baggage allowance and expect people to cruise for 2 weeks on 20 kilos... absolutely impossible :mad: :mad:

Im that in hand luggage alone

Cheers Myles

(Who packs for a cruise with gay abandon and with what he wants)

[guernseyguy]

Can you do that for £150? I doubt it.

 

If you know where to look, at around $280 - quite easily. And I do. That said, disembarking from Miami, there are only 4 direct flights to London - but the first, BA, does leave at 17.05 vs American at 20.20.

 

Peter, Sydney

[travel-to-go]

 

I mean how can airlines impose such a tiny baggage allowance and expect people to cruise for 2 weeks on 20 kilos... absolutely impossible :mad: :mad:

Im that in hand luggage alone

Cheers Myles

(Who packs for a cruise with gay abandon and with what he wants)

 

Myles,

How you can be so cruel as to abandon gays, I am not so sure, You should rethink that.:rolleyes:

With all of these changes, the outrageous fee which Cunard charges for their White Star (or whatever it is) luggage delivery option is looking cheaper and cheaper all the time! Those BA charges are worse than the US domestic! At least you only needed to pay $25 for slightly over with most airlines- At this rate, they are putting one more nail in the coffin of commerical airlines. If just 1/10 of one percent decide it is one more reason not to fly (and train ridership is already up in the US) how much more do they lose, and then come running to the government (and the already strapped unions for more cutbacks in people's livelihoods) for another bailout. And they'll blame it on 9/11 and the fuel crisis. :mad:

 

I'll believe it when I see CEOs living in doublewides! (trailer homes)

 

Karie,

who is sympathetic to airlines, but only so far. When they cease to provide a service, folks will no longer consider it worth using.

[lexxity]

$25 for a few pounds excess is actually quite a bargain. United tried to get me for six pounds out of O'Hare. They said $50 please. I said no way and offered to move the six pounds into another case. They took the bag.:D

 

FYI AA do charge for excess out of the UK and the allowance is 23kgs/50lbs.

 

23kgs is about to become the standard. These are the days we live in. Unfortunately.

 

The obvious answer is fo Cunard to put more T/A on and then we can all take what we like.:D

[greatam]

As a very loyal AA flyer (107,000 miles in 2006 so far), AA and BA transatlantic baggage allowance has been 50 pounds (23 kilos) since October 2005. 70 pounds per bag, 2 bags was allowed in First and business on BA and on some AA flights (Flagship service).

 

The new BA policy means that you can take THREE bags of 50 pounds in First and business, two of 50# in all other classes TRANSATLANTIC ONLY. This is a royal pain-who wants to drag three bags?

 

And the real killer-if you are US based, you cannot earn ANY AA FF miles on a BA transatlantic, NO MATTER what class you fly. There is a nonstop out of Phoenix to LHR every day about 7:00PM. I would love to fly the BA flight-better timing and a nonstop. But no miles. And I sure am not going to give up over 10,000 miles + my EXP bonus, which amounts to a total of 20,000 miles.

 

Same thing applies to UK pax flying BA transatlantic. If you fly AA, NO MILES. The only way you can get the miles on either airline is to credit them to a Qantas account.

 

The no miles part is in the tariff agreed to between AA and BA and part of the OneWorld alliance rules.

 

And just for the record, it was BA that started the initial process to reduce luggage weight on the AA/BA transatlantics. The luggage handlers at LHR had too many back injuries and the Unions and company wanted to put a stop to the injuries. American went along with the agreement, and IIRC, if you purchased a ticket before October 2005 and flew in 2006, you were still allowed 70 pounds per bag. Any ticket issued after October 2005 had the 50#, 2 bag restriction.

 

$25.00 is a bargain for overweight bags. I just came back from South America. 4 suitcases were all at 70 pounds each. That 80 pounds of extra "stuff" in the luggage would have cost about $300.00 on normal air freight (AA cargo or FedEx, UPS, DHL) or I could have sent it through the post office, waited 3-4 weeks, and hoped it made it through Customs. I gladly paid the $100.00.

[dougnewmanatsea]

The no miles part is in the tariff agreed to between AA and BA and part of the OneWorld alliance rules.

This was a government-imposed restriction, part of the Bermuda II Agreement between the US and UK. You can read more about it here.

 

Note that this restriction applies on flights to London only. AA codeshares on BA's JFK-MAN service and you can earn AA miles on those flights.

[judy&steve]

MOst US airlines have reduced their domestic luggage to 50 pound each, two suitcases. They are also enforcing it, and Fort Lauderdale is one of the worst airports in that respect.

 

Given a preference, we always would choose American Airlines when flying anywhere. They have direct flights to Miami from Baltimore and we are usually able to get one of those flights for our cruises. For our last trip, we had to fly AirTran (the worst of the worst, INHO) for our FLL-BWI flights for the 11/25/06 QM2. Horrible. The worst part (besides having to give up our "business class" seats for a medical emergency, was the fact that the ticket agents actually solicit bribes for overweight luggage. Don't even get me started on the mixing up of items from the checked (and I do mean checked and picked through) luggage with someone's items winding up in our suitcase.

We let AirTran know about the bribery. It happened to a woman on our flight and also to my cousins a few weeks prior to our trip.

Ironically, our flight was overweight and they kicked off two people.

 

--Judy

[bonni99]

From Feb07 BA are changing their policy and are cutting their luggage allowance down to the 23 kilo, 50lb. The maximum allowable weight for any one bag is 23kg so if you are over, the additional must be in another bag.

 

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/bgpolicy/public/en_gb

 

Thanks for this information- that is really interesting to know! I shall avoid BA in future if possible. When we go to the states we love to go shopping and buy things that you can't really get here in the UK- and that are a lot cheaper than in rip-off Britain!

 

Does anyone know if Virgin are going to change too?

[transat_jon]

Does anyone know if Virgin are going to change too?

Virgin is already on the 23kg/50lb for economy limit. Economy plus is 32kg/70lb: I think all airlines are going to fall in line with these charges.

 

The airlines are always going on about weight for luggage but do not mention anything about passenger weight. You could weigh 100lb or 300lb and your ticket costs the same (assuming you do not need two seats that is). It makes a mockery of the fuss they make over a few lbs of excess luggage.

 

This logic says thin people be given a higher luggage allowance....? I would like to see how marketing departments would put this idea forward. It is an idea mentioned in the past, does anyone know any airline that has actually done this?

[Kindlychap]

This logic says thin people be given a higher luggage allowance....? I would like to see how marketing departments would put this idea forward. It is an idea mentioned in the past, does anyone know any airline that has actually done this?

 

I think that the idea of discriminating against the portly is one that will go precisely no-where.

 

Not only does this have the potential to infringe the Disability Discrimination Act over here in England, but I have the feeling that the idea of an airline "taking on" and "punishing" larger people would do it more harm than good.

 

Look at the difficulties RyanAir have been having with the courts, and think of that writ large!

[greatam]

This was a government-imposed restriction, part of the Bermuda II Agreement between the US and UK. You can read more about it here.

 

Note that this restriction applies on flights to London only. AA codeshares on BA's JFK-MAN service and you can earn AA miles on those flights.

 

IIRC, the Bermuda Agreement covers the "right to fly". The miles thing is BA/AA and OneWorld.

 

The AA codeshares (other than JAL and that will probably change) are usually priced so high that I can't afford them. JFK/MAN AA was a bargain last year, not this year, except when AA has a sale. And if I have to fly through JFK, I might as well fly AA Flagship. Definitely as good as BA First and all my lovely AA EXP perks.

[dougnewmanatsea]

IIRC, the Bermuda Agreement covers the "right to fly". The miles thing is BA/AA and OneWorld.

The reason BA and AA can't codeshare or share miles on routes into London is because they are both among the four "flag carriers" that are allowed to fly from the US to LHR under Bermuda II.

 

On the other hand you can have, for example, CO and VS codesharing on these routes because CO isn't one of those "flag carriers".

 

This restriction may not have been part of Bermuda II itself but it was definitely imposed by the US and UK competition authorities when AA and BA tried to merge in the 1990s.

 

And if I have to fly through JFK, I might as well fly AA Flagship. Definitely as good as BA First and all my lovely AA EXP perks.

Well, one thing one has to say about the US carriers is that they do treat their frequent flyers better than foreign ones.

 

Things like free upgrades (for no reason other than that there are empty premium seats) are completely unheard of elsewhere.

 

I'm sure they'd love to cut these benefits but they depend far too much on their elite frequent flyers to do it.

[travel-to-go]

Several things about this thread. One reason (the main one) that there is a big difference between passenger weight and luggage weight is that no luggage handler has to pick you up and throw you on a conveyor belt! Back injuries to employees cost airlines a lot!

Besides which if I buy a seat and weigh 300 pounds, assuming I fit in that seat, I am still taking up only the same set aside space. They can't sell the extra room from a skinnier passenger to another passenger! . If I take extra suitcases (most airlines used to allow three) or bigger suitcases, then I am taking up more cargo space, space which could be uitilized by expensive (to the shipper) and profitable air cargo!

 

Now, on the other side of the picture. As I stated last night, Southwest Airlines is now making passengers buy two seats if they are too big. Secondly, if you are on a puddle-jumper, it may very well mean someone has to get off of the plane. Marc and I were on a TWA short hop plane- JFK to BDL (Bradley Airport, Windsor Locks CT) They actually asked for someone (they asked for two) to get bumped. There were enough seats, but the plane was overweight. I have had the pilot size me up to figure out where each passenger sat. This was on a Cessna 209 or something I can't remember. If you ever saw the TV shows Wings here in the US, it is the airline which that show was based on, Cape Air. (The skinny cute young chick with the long legs and long blond hair got to sit next to the pilot. I'm sure that it was STRICTLY for weight and balance purposes! <G>) Marc and I have also answered a call for passengers in the back to move forward- Again for weight and balance purposes. Both of us being pilots, we immediately volunteered. If they were actually asking people, that mean the plane was SERIOUSLY out of weight and balance And that was AFTER they bumped one passenger! This is critical for the flight characteristics of the airplane!

 

And if you look at the history of flying, with Pan-Am, and flying the Connies, the Ford Tri-Motors (with the wicker seats) and other early planes, you got weighed before you got on the plane!

 

But you are right in that if most airlinees started doing that again (and it has been talked about over the years) there would be a major revolt. On the one hand, I was almost perversely pleased at all the talk of an obesity epidemic. Two reasons, if everyone were getting fatter, it took some pressure off of me, and made me stick out less like a sore thumb! Second, I figured I could finally buy clothes that didn't look like rejects from an army supply depot. All muddy browns, olive drabs and your basic black. Don't want to call attention to the fat chick by making pretty clothes in purple and turquoise! Besides which, they must think us fatties are always cold. All they want to sell us are plasticky polyester and sweaters. Summer outfits, usually have a sweater or a knit top, at the very least! AGGH!! I figured if there were more of us, clothing designers would actually start marketing to us if they wanted to make any money! and make nice pretty clothes in the same colors as skinny clothes! Well, there has been, instead of a trend towards better acceptance and treatment of fat people, a backlash, Seems like every other day is one top story or another warning against weight- even a few extra pounds and so on!

 

 

<Sigh> I just can't win!

Trust me. I don't want to be this big! It wasn't my choice, but the drug which kept me alive also destoryed my metabolism, made me fat and gave me diabetes. I take some responsibility, but when I started on it, I weighed 10 and was 40 pound underweight!

 

Karie,

The "fat chick with the great personality!" :cool:

(famous blind date description)