Dog on Constellation

[jaz33]

Well said Drew. Now lets hope this thread doesn't run to 6 pages. There are more problems in this world than having to find issue with a dog being on a cruise ship.

 

Ian

[jaz33]

Whoops, I made it 6!!! Sorry it wasn't intentional.

 

Ian

[MTemple212]

I know I am in the minority here but I tend to agree with RebeccaLouise. I do not have a problem with a dog being onboard. For an authorized reason of course. And I don't believe the ADA applies to ocean going vessels either, but that's besides the matter. I think the legality aspect is at issue here.

 

It sounds like to me from other posters on this thread that she was apparently the life of the party at Karaoke(sp) and always had a crowd around her. Sounds to me like she liked the attention she was getting. Hey, I don't know as I wasn't on this cruise, just my opinion from reading this whole thread.

 

The thing that triggered my thought process is that sometimes she had the dog around and other times she didn't "need" the dog around. Isn't a working dog for a patient or owner "Always" beside their owner? Of course most of us are familiar with the seeing eye dog so I guess I relate the working dog in this way. I know someone mentioned that she wouldn't need therapy all the time, I just think that is a load of crap excuse.

 

I am sure this person was a very nice person as commented by some of those who had dealings with her. Of course those people would tend to have compassion for her as they know more about her and who she is. But do they know for a fact (feelings aside) that this "working dog" is legal? Or just a convenience for the owner?

 

As you all can probably tell, I am not a very compassionate person when it comes to someone trying to pull the wool over your eyes. I think that is what has been done to most who posted on here.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[Ma Bell]

I love dogs and have no problem with working dogs on the ship but I do wonder about the people who are unnaturally afraid of dogs and also those who are extremely allergic to dogs. What are they supposed to do?

[Susan-M]

I love dogs and have no problem with working dogs on the ship but I do wonder about the people who are unnaturally afraid of dogs and also those who are extremely allergic to dogs. What are they supposed to do?

 

 

I think the person with the disability who needs the assistance dog would probably get priority by law .... but it's just a guess as I'm not sure about laws protecting those with allergies. A person with severe allergies would need to carry medication any time they left the house because of the risk of coming into contact with a dog at any time.

 

People who are unnaturally afraid of dogs probably don't venture too far from their houses - I can hardly get to the corner of my street without seeing someone with a dog.

[Drew B]

I love dogs and have no problem with working dogs on the ship but I do wonder about the people who are unnaturally afraid of dogs and also those who are extremely allergic to dogs. What are they supposed to do?

 

My colleague is irrationally afraid of little people. It's an actual phobia and she hyperventilates and has fainted when she has been too close for too long to one. Should X refuse to allow dwarves to cruise because it may upset her?

 

And if somebody was extremely allergic to dogs, they probably couldn't cruise with ME, either. Unfortunately, coming from a house with three dogs, everything I own ends up covered in dog hair, even when it was packed fresh out of the wash... I don't TRY to be a walking allergen, but that unfortunately is the result...

[Moeve]

Susan are you aware that severe allergies can cause death? So you are saying the law will protect the rights of a disbaled person to mobilty but not the life of a severily allergic person who isn't really expecting dogs on a cruise ship.... That is sad and if you think about not actually acceptable either.

 

To those of you belittling people for being afraid bear in mind - most of these people have already had nasty experiances with dogs -and most will not be expecting dogs on a cruiseship......Now if you are unlucky enough to pick the cabin right next door then chances are rather big you are going to run into your neighbour and his animal more than once on the cruise. I don't see why if HC cabins can be marked in a decks plan why can not the same thing be done for cabins allocated to service animals? It is a simple way to help both parties... At home these people can cross the road and put abit of distance between an animal and themselves - now that just isn't possible in a ship corridor.

[AcaCandy]

Speaking of HAL ---- we saw a woman with two small 'heart attack' dogs on the Veendam in September.

[arabrab]

As it has been mentioned "disabilities" come in many ways that cannot be observed by another guest...whether a cardiac problem, sight problem or a disability in walking..Our little eleven pound dog has just become a "therapy dog" and is able to go to nursing homes and assisted living facilities..among other places, but she will be wearing a special bandana and/or a vest In all honesty I;ve never heard of a "therapy dog" for depression.

 

Service animals are not required to wear a vest or badge and places of business may not require that they do so, though many do wear such garb.

 

A former teacher at our school used a dog for balance assistance (he had an inner ear problem) and he went the rounds with the National Park Service over whether his service dog needed certification, vest, or some of ther credential. Eventually the newspaper published an article stating that the National Park Sevice had agreed to train staff to comply correctly with the ADA and to allow service animals into the parks without requiring doctor's notes, certifications, etc.

[Susan-M]

Susan are you aware that severe allergies can cause death?

Yes, sadly I knew someone that this happened to.

 

So you are saying the law will protect the rights of a disbaled person to mobilty but not the life of a severily allergic person who isn't really expecting dogs on a cruise ship.... That is sad and if you think about not actually acceptable either.

Please read what I said in my post above:

"but it's just a guess as I'm not sure about laws protecting those with allergies"

[woodofpine]

I've dealt with this from the standpoint of condominium associations that have restrictions against dogs... It's Dog Gone fun!

 

As is so typical of Federal regs, it is easily subject to abuse, and businesses (whether actually beholden to it or not... ie., Cruise Lines... just give in - a lot).

 

First, to qualify for a 'service animal' you have to establish that you are 'disabled' and thus in need of 'service'. 'Disabled' means that you suffer from a condition that substantially impairs your ability to undertake normal and necessary tasks (like crossing streets, etc.).

 

Next, a service animal must be 'prescribed' or otherwise shown by professionally recognized standards to be a legitimate treatment for the condition causing the disability.

 

OK - I suppose a lot of you are going... Whoa! Wait a minute! There are a lot of folks out there stretching these service animals more than Gumby and Pokey...

 

and you're right...

 

 

In my opinion, people that misuse the service animal designation are not 'classy'; they're no better than the able bodies using disabled parking spots...

 

(yah! I've driven around in my mom's van trying to find a parking spot where her wheelchair can be off loaded when the 'golfers' have taken the spots next to the curb cuts)

 

They insult those that genuinely need a service animal...

[Texas_Cruisers]

 

Whoa! Wait a minute! There are a lot of folks out there stretching these service animals more than Gumby and Pokey...and you're right...

 

In my opinion, people that misuse the service animal designation are not 'classy'; they're no better than the able bodies using disabled parking spots...

 

They insult those that genuinely need a service animal...

 

I just love it when people coment on someone and they assume that they know the particulat situation about an individual. I have a very good friend who had polio as a child and his legs are paralysed. He walks with crutches and braces and refuses to park in the handicap parking spots because others need them more than he does. He once walked 3 city blocks to a business meeting when there were 2 HC parking spaces in front of the building he was going to. He is a role model for many in my industry.

 

I don't assume that someone does not need the space when they have the proper tags on their car. There is a lot of abuse of the ADA rules and regulations. I for one tend to err on the side of the person who has the documentation and proper licensing, unless I know for a fact that they are abusing the system. The ones that abuse the system will get theirs one day, but from what I know of this particular situation, many on the board are misinformed on what went on on the cruise.

 

The dog was not a problem in any way. I did not see anybody bitten, tinkled on, or have an allergic reation, he did not get in the pool, he was not running wild (unlike some kids on most cruises). Shannon had a purse style carrier that he was in most of the time.

 

Someone else made the comment that since Sultana was not with her all the time that he was not a bonified service dog. Shannon reluctently agreed not to take him into the restraunts and food service areas of the ship. This was a requirement of the Ship (Not compliant with the ADA regs but their you go, not everyone follows the rules, but Shannon and Saltana did.)

 

You may speculate all you want on what may have happened but unless you were there and have first hand knowledge, leave it alone.

 

Please don't assume that because a service animal is only 3 pounds that they can not be of assistance to an individual. Nor should one Ass-U-Me that someone that can walk into a store from a HC parking spot that they are not disabled.

[FinelyCruising]

Texas Cruisers I tend to be appreciative of woodofpine to describe best effort I have seen so far that offers that disbalilty needs to include inablility to perform fairly ordinary tasks for most of us (note that this is a paraphrase).

 

Without getting too worked up, it sure seems to me that this lady, while completely engaging, could walk and talk and interact and sing karaoke like no other.

 

So, in that regard, those reports cheapen all those who actually do need service in my mind.

 

That her actions create suspicion are her own doing. People are not stupid. Pity and understanding are earned or warranted based on the conditons. They are not unconditionally given.

[squidward]

"Without getting too worked up, it sure seems to me that this lady, while completely engaging, could walk and talk and interact and sing karaoke like no other.

So, in that regard, those reports cheapen all those who actually do need service in my mind. That her actions create suspicion are her own doing. People are not stupid. Pity and understanding are earned or warranted based on the conditons. They are not unconditionally given."

 

Well, maybe the therapy dog helped her feel good enough to walk and talk and interact and sing karaoke. People with severe depression normally can't do these things. Depression can be debilitating.

[Catnip]

Where are they supposed to go? Serious question!

 

That's just what I was wondering. An animal is going to have to "go" just like people.....they can't use the toilet, & they are not litter-box trained like cats, so where else would a dog "go", other than on the floor/deck? :confused:

[FinelyCruising]

Well, maybe the therapy dog helped her feel good enough to walk and talk and interact and sing karaoke. People with severe depression normally can't do these things. Depression can be debilitating.[/b]

 

OK, let's be a bit more down to earth. If I thought for one minute that this lady was so depressed that her doctor...only an MD? 'allowed' her to cruise accompanied on an extended cruise with only her little maltese how debilitating to you want me to beleive her depression is.

 

As you describe it with genuine gravity, this woman ought to have more supervision than by a note of a doctor and a 10 pound dog. Who was to know or tell or react to those who could help if she was suddenly terrified or incapacitated.

 

Please, I have a great understanding for those in need, but I am not stupid.

[FinelyCruising]

That's just what I was wondering. An animal is going to have to "go" just like people.....they can't use the toilet, & they are not litter-box trained like cats, so where else would a dog "go", other than on the floor/deck? :confused:

 

Guess so....:confused:

[Drew B]

Susan are you aware that severe allergies can cause death? So you are saying the law will protect the rights of a disbaled person to mobilty but not the life of a severily allergic person who isn't really expecting dogs on a cruise ship.... That is sad and if you think about not actually acceptable either.

 

To those of you belittling people for being afraid bear in mind - most of these people have already had nasty experiances with dogs -and most will not be expecting dogs on a cruiseship......Now if you are unlucky enough to pick the cabin right next door then chances are rather big you are going to run into your neighbour and his animal more than once on the cruise. I don't see why if HC cabins can be marked in a decks plan why can not the same thing be done for cabins allocated to service animals? It is a simple way to help both parties... At home these people can cross the road and put abit of distance between an animal and themselves - now that just isn't possible in a ship corridor.

 

 

Another possibility is for people with severe allergies or fear of dogs to disclose this fact to the cruise line and they can make sure that the passenger with the allergy/fear is not placed next to or in close vicinity to a cabin holding a service animal...

 

 

First, to qualify for a 'service animal' you have to establish that you are 'disabled' and thus in need of 'service'. 'Disabled' means that you suffer from a condition that substantially impairs your ability to undertake normal and necessary tasks (like crossing streets, etc.).

 

Next, a service animal must be 'prescribed' or otherwise shown by professionally recognized standards to be a legitimate treatment for the condition causing the disability.

 

OK - I suppose a lot of you are going... Whoa! Wait a minute! There are a lot of folks out there stretching these service animals more than Gumby and Pokey...

 

and you're right...

 

Actually, I assume that the cruiseline is acting under it's own discretion rather than under the aegis of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Therefore, in order to "qualify", the person need only meet whatever standards Celebrity establishes. Those standards are COMPLETELY UP TO THEM. Presumably, Shannon met these standards, so I really don't understand why we are still discussing this!

[FinelyCruising]

If the cruiselines won't let pregnant women on board at specified times, then it seems they take into account human safety and conditons to treat if the need arise, just like they post comments on excursions about health and heart and pregnancy and weight. They err on the side of safety to the guest to the point of exclusion to reduce risk and liability, so they are not aribitrary.

[Drew B]

If the cruiselines won't let pregnant women on board at specified times, then it seems they take into account human safety and conditons to treat if the need arise, just like they post comments on excursions about health and heart and pregnancy and weight. They err on the side of safety to the guest to the point of exclusion to reduce risk and liability, so they are not aribitrary.

 

In which case, I think they'd be more likely to refuse to allow those with the severe allergies to sail...

[FinelyCruising]

Fact is allergic reactions are not on a list of exclusions or exceptions, at least none that I have even seen. I have read quite a bit on these boards over time that people with food allergies ask frequent questions about alternate availabilities or ingredients used.

 

The cruiselines do not seem to restrict those passengers any more than they restrict diabetics or those who may have allergies to bee stings. But we are not talking about those legitimate and life threatening passenger issues which individuals can manage on their own or with medications if need be in many instances, and which they have to do on a day to day basis anyway. That allergy does not prevent them from ordinary activities, generally. I imagine some severe allergies may prevent somone from cruising because they can't control the environment, but not to the extent of needing a service animal.

 

We are debating/discussing eccentrics and real needs for exclusions to rules for service animals as a result of impacting activities. At least I am.

[Drew B]

Fact is allergic reactions are not on a list of exclusions or exceptions, at least none that I have even seen. I have read quite a bit on these boards over time that people with food allergies ask frequent questions about alternate availabilities or ingredients used.

 

The cruiselines do not seem to restrict those passengers any more than they restrict diabetics or those who may have allergies to bee stings. But we are not talking about those legitimate and life threatening passenger issues which individuals can manage on their own or with medications if need be in many instances.

 

We are debating about eccentrics and real needs for exclusions to rules for service animals.

 

I don't understand that comment AT ALL. Doesn't late term pregnancy fall under the category of "legitimate and life threatening passenger issues" for which X might restrict passage? Wasn't it YOU who brought up the restrictions X sometimes makes based on pregnancy? I would think that those with the need for service animals would be the ones who don't fit your reasoning...

 

What exactly do you mean by "real needs for exclusions to rules for service animals". So far, I've seen one of those -- severe allergies. And yet there are those with serious food allergies to shellfish, for example, and yet people aren't clamoring about the need to take all shellfish off the menu!

[jaz33]

You people are beyond belief. All I can assume is that there is very little in your lives to worry about therefore the only "fun" you can have is to belittle and mock a person who most of you have never met and who, if she read this thread (and I really hope she hasn't), would probably cause her to relapse. People with depression very rarely show external signs of their condition. Many also come accross as being eccentric and outgoing. This does not mean that they do not need treatment (whatever form that may take). A person with heart problems or cancer don't usually show outward signs of their condition (and most can carry on with thier normal lives).So if they took a disabled parking space and you questioned them how bad would you feel? If they didn't have the treatment they needed they would be dead.

 

As far as people with allergies are concerned, the cruiseships are big enough now for people to aviod the odd animal on board. Also, if they have allergies then perhaps they should inform the cruise line. I'm sure people with food allergies do just that.

 

Perhaps, if everyone was a little more tollerant of issues that they know little about and tried to find out the FACTS then we wouldn't have half the problems we have in this world today. Many families around the world have had their lives ruined and lost loved ones due to the kind of intolerance shown on the thread.

[richsea]

You people are beyond belief. All I can assume is that there is very little in your lives to worry about therefore the only "fun" you can have is to belittle and mock a person who most of you have never met and who, if she read this thread (and I really hope she hasn't), would probably cause her to relapse. .

 

I agree.

 

I've seen this thread for a few days but never read it. When I opened it today I at first thought it was a joke,but...........

 

I think that some would debate whether or not the sun rises in the east or west!

 

Merry Christmas!

[woodofpine]

I just love it when people coment on someone and they assume that they know the particulat situation about an individual. I have a very good friend who had polio as a child and his legs are paralysed. He walks with crutches and braces and refuses to park in the handicap parking spots because others need them more than he does. He once walked 3 city blocks to a business meeting when there were 2 HC parking spaces in front of the building he was going to. He is a role model for many in my industry.

 

I don't assume that someone does not need the space when they have the proper tags on their car. There is a lot of abuse of the ADA rules and regulations. I for one tend to err on the side of the person who has the documentation and proper licensing, unless I know for a fact that they are abusing the system. The ones that abuse the system will get theirs one day, but from what I know of this particular situation, many on the board are misinformed on what went on on the cruise.

 

The dog was not a problem in any way. I did not see anybody bitten, tinkled on, or have an allergic reation, he did not get in the pool, he was not running wild (unlike some kids on most cruises). Shannon had a purse style carrier that he was in most of the time.

 

Someone else made the comment that since Sultana was not with her all the time that he was not a bonified service dog. Shannon reluctently agreed not to take him into the restraunts and food service areas of the ship. This was a requirement of the Ship (Not compliant with the ADA regs but their you go, not everyone follows the rules, but Shannon and Saltana did.)

 

You may speculate all you want on what may have happened but unless you were there and have first hand knowledge, leave it alone.

 

Please don't assume that because a service animal is only 3 pounds that they can not be of assistance to an individual. Nor should one Ass-U-Me that someone that can walk into a store from a HC parking spot that they are not disabled.

 

 

Like I said in my only other post on this thread, I don't really care about dogs on ships... it was common in the olden days... I sort of sounds like corporate squeeze... I know my kids would get a kick out of seeing a dog on board.

 

Since you have so much insight into the vivacious Kareoke singing dog owner (who reported the mutt as a service animal) what exactly was the disability that this animal serviced?

 

I'd hate to ASS-U-ME... :D :D