Tourists with MINOR criminal records being turned back at Canadian border

[wanderingjew]

Is there any place online to check whether you will have a problem?

[LeftcoastBC]

Not that I'm aware of.

If you think you have an incident that may be of concern go to the Agency that dealt with you and ask them. Local Police/State/Feds ?? Here we can go to the Police and ask and for a fee get checked.

Once you know for sure what you have on your "Record" Then you can figure out the best way to attack the problem. eg. preclearance through other Countries Consul if need be/ Obtain pardon through your countries system and/or then take a chance that it's so old and you're so honest looking it won't make any difference at the border cause they won't ask you and if they do you won't lie and get caught in the lie. (cause that's worse)

[sassy191919]

After reading the message boards then talking to my group that I will be cruising with, I found out that my aunt has an OWI from 6 years ago. We are flying into Vancouver. She she did not know what to do and since I was organizing this trip I began researching.

 

Here is what I found out:

There is no time to apply for rehabilitation since we are going on a June cruise. She knows now and if she wants to go to Canada in the future will go this route.

 

The only thing we can count on is at the border she will be deemed rehabilitated. I was in Washington DC on business and made a point to stop at the Canadian embassy and this is what I found out. Make sure you know what is on her record. The lady asked if this was the only offense on the record? If anyone was hurt or property damaged in the incident? She then said if she answered yes/no to the questions that she should be OK. The lady at the embassy could not guarantee this to me-it is up to the judgement of the border guard. But just be honest and not to hide anything.

 

That is what we are going to do and not worry about it. Yes, she may get turned away and that is something we will deal with then. Worrying about or arguing about the situation does no good now.

 

Hope this info may helpful.

[wanderingjew]

I wonder how much money the economies of the us and canada have lost because of this to bar somebody for a minor offense 20 or 25 years ago doesnt make much sense

[Ephraim]

Statistically speaking.... the US loses 4x as much as Canada, since travel is 4x higher in the US' favour. BUT, the US number is probably higher since it is not only more stringent, but also bars a larger number of people because they refuse entry to people with HIV when Canada does not.

 

From the statistics on the Canadian government website, for Canada at least, the numbers are pretty low and fairly insignificant. I think I wrote how many people in an earlier message.

[RBOrrell]

I wonder how much money the economies of the us and canada have lost because of this to bar somebody for a minor offense 20 or 25 years ago doesnt make much sense

 

Are you suggesting that the tourist economy is more important than an initiative to keep the "evil doers" out? If you let them in, they'll win. ;)

[dogdoc2002]

After reading the message boards then talking to my group that I will be cruising with, I found out that my aunt has an OWI from 6 years ago. We are flying into Vancouver. She she did not know what to do and since I was organizing this trip I began researching.

 

Here is what I found out:

There is no time to apply for rehabilitation since we are going on a June cruise. She knows now and if she wants to go to Canada in the future will go this route.

 

The only thing we can count on is at the border she will be deemed rehabilitated. I was in Washington DC on business and made a point to stop at the Canadian embassy and this is what I found out. Make sure you know what is on her record. The lady asked if this was the only offense on the record? If anyone was hurt or property damaged in the incident? She then said if she answered yes/no to the questions that she should be OK. The lady at the embassy could not guarantee this to me-it is up to the judgement of the border guard. But just be honest and not to hide anything.

 

That is what we are going to do and not worry about it. Yes, she may get turned away and that is something we will deal with then. Worrying about or arguing about the situation does no good now.

 

Hope this info may helpful.

 

My partner has an underage drinking ticket (she was 20), which we tried explaining to people at the Consulate was NOT a criminal offence, only a civil ordinance violation (like a parking ticket). We could never get an answer if this would be a problem or not, and were told to apply for rehabilitation. The ticket is from nearly 14 years ago, the county didn't even have it handy anymore (it's in storage SOMEWHERE), and we too didn't have time to wait for rehabilitation (if it was even needed). It also was too long to get the FBI records that Canada would need. We eventually got a copy of her criminal record from Wisconsin (where she got the ticket), and showed up with no offenses, which should mean nothing on the FBI record either.

 

We're flying into Vancouver the day before we cruise. My back-up plan, had we not gotten this resolved and we had been turned away, was to try to be "deported" into Seattle and drive across as I've heard they are far less stringent when driving as oppossed to flying.

 

Don't know if that's an option for you or not.

 

Otherwise, maybe the US direct at the airport? That way she technically never enters Canada.

 

 

Dogdoc2002

[jstpshe]

If you're flying into Canada, how can you say that using US Direct is not being in Canada? You're still in Canada, right and having anything on your record would still cause you to not be able to use the US Direct, Right?

 

I know they say don't go downstairs because then you're in Canada but isn't the whole airport in Canada?

 

I'm so confused about this one! I sure don't want to fly in using the US Direct and because of my DUI 14 years ago be denied.

 

What's a girl to do! Any help would be appreciated.

 

By the way I know how the US Direct works by reading all about it but how do we know if there are exceptions to the rule, so to speak?

 

Thanks, CJ :) :)

[dogdoc2002]

I would try calling or e-mailing the consulate to double check (they take a while, fyi), but that was my understanding of how the program worked.

dogdoc2002

[wanderingjew]

Are you suggesting that the tourist economy is more important than an initiative to keep the "evil doers" out? If you let them in, they'll win. ;)

im saying you shouldn't bar somebody for Aminor thing 20-25 years ago with no repeat arrest since then is no big danger

[the_great_one]

sorry if i am posting in the wrong spot, this is the only board i found with relevant material. my buddy is born and raised in the u.s., now married with kids, and our families are thinking about taking a cruise to mexico. he has a felony conviction from an incident 15 years ago and nothing else since. he is worried about re-entering the u.s. but if he is a legal citizen with a passport and no restrictions on travel that i know of, ther is no problem, right? i mean, he is not trying to enter canada but re-enter his own u.s. any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks. amy

[Ephraim]

If he's an American citizen, they must take him back. As long as he has proof of citizenship.

[travel dog]

This has just ruined my day/week/month/etc.! We have been planning a family vacation for a year - Alaskan cruise out of Vancouver in Aug. - and just found out about this problem on this board. Two members of our party had DWI convictions within the past two years (1st offense, no jail time but so recent they wouldn't qualify for 'rehabilitation' even if there was time to apply). We've already purchased plane tickets to and from Vancouver, made reservations for post-cruise stay, and have to pay balance on the cruise in two weeks. I have no idea what to do.

 

Called our travel agent, who had never heard of the problem, and she's going to contact the cruise line (NCL). I'll be very interested in what they say, since they will be taking the $1,000s of dollars we've saved.

 

Does anyone have any first-hand experiences of what happens? ARE you asked about criminal record at customs? What happens if you say 'yes'?

 

Thanks for any help.

 

web sites I've found - none encouraging:

http://cic.gc.ca/english/visit/faq-inadmissibility.html

http://cic.gc.ca/english/visit/inadmissibility.html

http://cic.gc.ca/english/applications/rehabil.html

http://www.1800duilaws.com/article/travel_to_canada.asp

[RBOrrell]

This has just ruined my day/week/month/etc.! We have been planning a family vacation for a year - Alaskan cruise out of Vancouver in Aug. - and just found out about this problem on this board. Two members of our party had DWI convictions within the past two years (1st offense, no jail time but so recent they wouldn't qualify for 'rehabilitation' even if there was time to apply). We've already purchased plane tickets to and from Vancouver, made reservations for post-cruise stay, and have to pay balance on the cruise in two weeks. I have no idea what to do.

 

Called our travel agent, who had never heard of the problem, and she's going to contact the cruise line (NCL). I'll be very interested in what they say, since they will be taking the $1,000s of dollars we've saved.

 

Does anyone have any first-hand experiences of what happens? ARE you asked about criminal record at customs? What happens if you say 'yes'?

 

Thanks for any help.

 

web sites I've found - none encouraging:

http://cic.gc.ca/english/visit/faq-inadmissibility.html

http://cic.gc.ca/english/visit/inadmissibility.html

http://cic.gc.ca/english/applications/rehabil.html

http://www.1800duilaws.com/article/travel_to_canada.asp

 

 

I have not had any first hand experience with Canadian Customs, as I am Canadian. However, as a Canadian, when travelling to the US, when you provide them with photo ID (in the past a driver's license and now a passport), they enter the information into their computer and it displays your record. Customs Canada is now doing the exact same thing that US Customs has been doing for years. You do not have to be asked, they will know. If they do ask, it's like the old lawyer's expression "Don't ask a question that you don't already know the answer". So if they ask, they know already and if you lie, you will make matters worse.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but Canada needed to plug some holes in our immigration policies according to the US government.

[sassy191919]

My partner has an underage drinking ticket (she was 20), which we tried explaining to people at the Consulate was NOT a criminal offence, only a civil ordinance violation (like a parking ticket). We could never get an answer if this would be a problem or not, and were told to apply for rehabilitation. The ticket is from nearly 14 years ago, the county didn't even have it handy anymore (it's in storage SOMEWHERE), and we too didn't have time to wait for rehabilitation (if it was even needed). It also was too long to get the FBI records that Canada would need. We eventually got a copy of her criminal record from Wisconsin (where she got the ticket), and showed up with no offenses, which should mean nothing on the FBI record either.

 

We're flying into Vancouver the day before we cruise. My back-up plan, had we not gotten this resolved and we had been turned away, was to try to be "deported" into Seattle and drive across as I've heard they are far less stringent when driving as oppossed to flying.

 

Don't know if that's an option for you or not.

 

Otherwise, maybe the US direct at the airport? That way she technically never enters Canada.

 

 

Dogdoc2002

 

I never thought of the option that she could be "deported back to Seattle" and then try and drive in. I will have all the flights out of Vancouver to Seattle ready for her the day we arrive, since we are arriving the day before. And if she doesn't get in then she can visit a beutiful area of the country-or I might look to see if there is another cruise leaving out of Seattle(she might be able to get a great last minute deal-although I'm sure she will have an inside room) :)

 

I will also post what happens after we return.

 

Thanks much for the advice

[rolando]

Everyone, I've been following this thread for some time with a fair amount of interest. We have a group of 12 people going to Alaska this August. We start in Whittier and end in Vancouver (only Canadian port). Most of us have airline tickets to return to the US the second we get off the ship, but two couples do not (spending one night in YVR post cruise). One member of one of these couples had a DUI conviction 5 years ago. Of the others coming back the same day the ship arrives, 1 has a misdemeanor arrest (no conviction) from 13 years ago.

 

Needless to say, when I brought up this subject, they were very concerned. We called Princess and they claim that they've never heard of any passenger having problems. We called our travel agent (a mega US cruise agency) and they claim they've never heard of this and their passengers have never had a problem. We called Delta and Continental (the airlines we are flying) and they've never heard of this.

 

I suspect that somewhere along the line....people encountering the issue of not being allowed to enter the country are telling others????

 

We have even sent the links to the Canadian Consulate that appear on this thread to the various parties mentioned above and they've all claimed they've never seen this or heard of any passenger having problems.

 

Is this real??? Does this happen often?? I suspect most people would be embarassed to some extent and not discuss this with others, but I'm certain some would try to blame their travel providers (cruise line, travel agents, airlines, etc) for not warning them ahead of time......???

 

I'm just surprised that if this is in fact prevolent how it is not more commonly known or disclosed by travel providers.

[Ephraim]

On the part of Canada, it's quite rare and as I have already quoted elsewhere, the number of people refused entry is extremely low and hasn't varied in years.

 

How rare? Canada's Border Security Agency processed Over 94.9 million travellers and 94,024 were denied entry, according to their own website at http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/stats/2004-2005-e.html

 

In other words, that's less than 1 in every 1000 people processed.

 

US Customs and Border Protection's statistics say they process 1.1 million per day (of which 680,000 were aliens) with 574 denied entry. That's about 1 in every 2000 people processed or about 1 in every 1200 (if we assume it's only processed aliens that are subject to refusal to enter) according to http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/fact_sheets/cbp_overview/typical_day.ctt/typical_day.pdf

 

So basically it's a pretty rare. We have no way of knowing WHY these denials were made, these could be refugee claimants, criminals or even ordinary citizens that pissed off a border guard (it happens). Incidentally they also say that they make 1.5 arrests at the border for terrorism/national security concerns every day. That's about 1 in almost 73000 travellers at the border... talk about looking for a needle in a haystack.

 

Truth is... it happens. Truth is... it's rare. But the ultimate truth is that time is the best proof of rehabilitation. Let's put it another way.... would you want someone with a felony (indictable offence) coming into the US to commit crimes? Obviously the answer to that question is no. The same is true of Canada and almost every other country on earth. Canada has a system in place to find people rehabilitated and allow them entry after they have one (and only one) mark on their record and they have kept a clean record ever since.

 

Oh, and the next person who says that DUI isn't a serious crime needs to take a look at some of the statistics and realize how many people have died because people don't know when it's time to stop drinking and to start calling a taxi. It's vehicular manslaughter with a 1 ton weapon. (I think in the US you call it murder in the 3rd degree.)

[rolando]

On the part of Canada, it's quite rare and as I have already quoted elsewhere, the number of people refused entry is extremely low and hasn't varied in years.

 

How rare? Canada's Border Security Agency processed Over 94.9 million travellers and 94,024 were denied entry, according to their own website at http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/stats/2004-2005-e.html

 

In other words, that's less than 1 in every 1000 people processed.

 

US Customs and Border Protection's statistics say they process 1.1 million per day (of which 680,000 were aliens) with 574 denied entry. That's about 1 in every 2000 people processed or about 1 in every 1200 (if we assume it's only processed aliens that are subject to refusal to enter) according to http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/fact_sheets/cbp_overview/typical_day.ctt/typical_day.pdf

 

So basically it's a pretty rare. We have no way of knowing WHY these denials were made, these could be refugee claimants, criminals or even ordinary citizens that pissed off a border guard (it happens). Incidentally they also say that they make 1.5 arrests at the border for terrorism/national security concerns every day. That's about 1 in almost 73000 travellers at the border... talk about looking for a needle in a haystack.

 

Truth is... it happens. Truth is... it's rare. But the ultimate truth is that time is the best proof of rehabilitation. Let's put it another way.... would you want someone with a felony (indictable offence) coming into the US to commit crimes? Obviously the answer to that question is no. The same is true of Canada and almost every other country on earth. Canada has a system in place to find people rehabilitated and allow them entry after they have one (and only one) mark on their record and they have kept a clean record ever since.

 

Oh, and the next person who says that DUI isn't a serious crime needs to take a look at some of the statistics and realize how many people have died because people don't know when it's time to stop drinking and to start calling a taxi. It's vehicular manslaughter with a 1 ton weapon. (I think in the US you call it murder in the 3rd degree.)

 

Thank you Ephraim.....very inciteful reply. Interesting point you make about the number of people being refused entry into Canada remaining relatively unchanged during the past few years. The person who had the arrest (without conviction) over 13 years ago has entered Canada many times (cruising, skiing, etc) without any problems. The last time was in May of 2006. Should she expect anything different this time (meaning have things changed since May of 06??)

 

Thanks again

 

Oh yes, and I'm not sure where the comment relative to the seriousness of a DUI came from as I purposely stay away from offering opinions on such matters, particularly on these boards (my comment was simply that one person in my party has one from 5 years ago). I have not read the recent postings prior to mine so perhaps someone else made a comment.

 

Thanks again for offering such degree of detail in answering my post. Cheers!

[Ephraim]

Thank you Ephraim.....very inciteful reply. Interesting point you make about the number of people being refused entry into Canada remaining relatively unchanged during the past few years. The person who had the arrest (without conviction) over 13 years ago has entered Canada many times (cruising, skiing, etc) without any problems. The last time was in May of 2006. Should she expect anything different this time (meaning have things changed since May of 06??)

 

Thanks again

 

Oh yes, and I'm not sure where the comment relative to the seriousness of a DUI came from as I purposely stay away from offering opinions on such matters, particularly on these boards (my comment was simply that one person in my party has one from 5 years ago). I have not read the recent postings prior to mine so perhaps someone else made a comment.

 

Thanks again for offering such degree of detail in answering my post. Cheers!

 

The only thing that has changed is that our border guards now have FULL access to US records directly from Homeland Security. Canada was given full access because US CPD wanted full access to Canadian records. The number of people refused entry hasn't really changed and as long as they are honest they are instructed to forgive one blemish on the record. But, just one! Despite the statistics, the US is more known for refusing entry (for up to 10 years) and having no system to appeal.

 

The comment on DUI wasn't personal at all. In the many threads on this subject on CC there have been so many flippant comments about DUI (Impaired Driving in Canada) that I'm just a bit upset at how so many people don't seem to take it seriously. I knew a seven year-old girl who was mowed down on the sidewalk in front of her home by an impaired driver with a record. It wasn't much of a contest, a one ton car versus a 50 lb. child.

[jstpshe]

Rolando,

 

Could'nt everyone in your party use the US Direct Program?

 

I believe if I understand this correctly, that you get on a bus through the cruise line and go straight to the airport to wait in a certain area until time to get on your flight, although that does'nt help the ones that will be spending the night, can't help you on that one.

 

As for coming into Vancouver to get on the ship you're suppose to be able to get US Direct from airport to ship too but if you have a criminal record than I don't know if your even allowed to use the US Direct program, you may be denied entry all together and have to take another flight right back out of Canada but don't quote me b/c I'm still a little confused about the US Direct.

 

Why don't you check into it and see if it will work for you?

 

Just a thought, CJ :) :)

[rolando]

Thanks for the idea CJ. Those of us leaving on the same day the ship gets back checked into the US direct program. Princess told us they no longer offer this service (although we do have transfers booked with the cruise line from the ship to the airport). Getting on the ship is no problem for anyone because we start in Whittier, AK.

 

I have forwarded all of this information to the two members of our group with the potential problem so now it's in their hands. If anyone encounters any additional information or recent personal experience regarding this, it would be great to update the board. Thanks

[travel dog]

I won't be able to provide that first hand experience because we decided to be "prudent" and therefore switched (cruise, plane tickets, hotel, and all) from the Vancouver cruise (NCL Sun) to one leaving out of Seattle (NCL Pearl). We might have chanced it - esp if the young people flew to Seattle and took a train, bus or car to Vancouver, as supposedly it's the airports that are more likely to stop you - but, in our case, felt it would be asking for trouble. *Both* people in the party traveling together, not just one of them, have a DUI conviction that is between one and two years old only. (We tried to coordinate things so that they would be going through customs along with us oldsters, but that just wasn't going to happen.)

 

This way, we figure the worst that could happen is that they might not be allowed to get off for the 5 or so hours the ship is in Victoria, but I seriously doubt that -- as obviously they wouldn't be *staying* in Canada.

 

I did write to the Canadian Consulate and received back simply a link to the laws that I'd already found. Since I'm an attorney, I can say with a great deal of certainty that whatever the *practice* may be about immigration agents acting on the authority, the law, and associated regulations, quite clearly means that someone with a DUI in the States is "ineligible" for entry into Canada. They don't have the gradiations we do according to blood level: if it's over .08, it's DUI (or whatever term is there). The more serious levels in Canadian law involve whether there was injury to property or injury to persons.

 

Rolando, I know there isn't time for an application for 'rehabilitation' to be processed (can be over a year), but with the person who has the DUI of 5 years ago, it probably wouldn't hurt to have an *application* for rehabilitation completed and sent -- and a copy with them (along with copy of any documents relating to the conviction and conclusion of any sort of sentence). I believe you can make the application "for information only" or something like that and not have to pay the rather significant fee. It would show a good faith effort to cure the problem as soon as they became award of it .... *and* remind the immigration agent that one can be considered rehabilitated after 5 years. Somehow seeing things in writing has an effect that isn't quite logical. ----- Anywway, the "worst case" it seems is that they would lose the chance to stay over one night in Vancouver, which one could live with. Our "worst case," of course, was that my son and his friend might never be able to set foot into Canada and therefore miss the cruise entirely (and for a reason that wouldn't be covered by trip insurance) ... a much more grim prospect.

 

Fortunately we're all pretty easygoing and, despite having to make the change and lose some money, we're now starting to look forward to Seattle and the Pearl.

 

Good luck.

[dogdoc2002]

Thanks for the idea CJ. Those of us leaving on the same day the ship gets back checked into the US direct program. Princess told us they no longer offer this service (although we do have transfers booked with the cruise line from the ship to the airport). Getting on the ship is no problem for anyone because we start in Whittier, AK.

 

I have forwarded all of this information to the two members of our group with the potential problem so now it's in their hands. If anyone encounters any additional information or recent personal experience regarding this, it would be great to update the board. Thanks

 

Hi Rolando-

Princess does offer this program, or at least they should. We received our cruise documents a few weeks ago, and there was a brochure in it reviewing the US Direct program, signs to follow, etc...

Maybe try calling again? Or have your TA check into it?

dogdoc2002

[jstpshe]

Hi Rolando-

Princess does offer this program, or at least they should. We received our cruise documents a few weeks ago, and there was a brochure in it reviewing the US Direct program, signs to follow, etc...

Maybe try calling again? Or have your TA check into it

dogdoc2002

 

 

Could you please explain what it says you do and not do when you get to the airport and use the US Direct?

 

Thanks, CJ :) :)

[dogdoc2002]

Hi CJ-

I'd love to quote the leaflet verbatim, but I seem to have misplaced since it didn't pertain to us. I'm a packrat, so I'm sure it's around, and when I come across it, I'll post it here.

 

The gist of it was that you had to be arriving the day you embark for the cruise, and you must have purchased transfers from Princess. If I remember right, you need to have your Princess luggage tags on your luggage BEFORE you check them at your airport. When you arrive at Vancouver, DO NOT go through Customs/Immigration. There are green overhead signs directing you the cruise/US Direct area. Princess will get your luggage and bring it to you on board.

 

Anyone else out there have the leaflet still?

dogdoc2002