Clashes in Tallinn

[SF]

Just read that there have been clashes in Tallinn the last two days. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6602171.stm

 

Hope it clears up soon especially since people are getting hurt and one has already died. We are suppose to stop there on our Baltic cruise and would also hate to miss that port as we heard it is really nice.

[ahti01]

The event two nights ago was somehow chock for all of us in Estonia.

Nothing similar has not happened in Estonia before.

las night in Tallinn was also bad, but police had changed the tactics and city centre was much more under control, still 50 shops suffered (mostly windows, but some of them were robbished too).

I and like most of Estonians like to believe that peak of this chaos is over, and that day when you will visit Tallinn everything will be over.

Tallinn is nice city, but similar things have happened in so many cities before (Oslo last night, Cobenhagen some months ago, there was something even in quiet Helsinki perhaps last year).

And of course our situation is not so bad, that cruise ships must skip Tallinn port at all.

[SF]

Ahti Arak,

 

Thank you so much for posting. We all hope that things settle down for you and your fellow Estonians real soon as it's sad to hear about lives lost and property damaged. We are looking so forward to visiting Tallinn as we've heard such lovely reviews from your home town.

 

You mentioned something happening in Oslo last night also. I didn't hear anything about that. Do you happen to know what occurred as that's on our cruise itinerary also?

 

Please keep us informed as to how this situation is progressing. We all appreciate your time and once again thanks and best wishes.

[7SeasLover]

That's too bad about the problems in Tallinn. We will be there but not until 2008. We had heard lots of reports about Buenos Aires. We were there right in the midst of the unrest. There were lots of people gathering for the protest when we toured, but we left before the actual demonostration started.

 

I got lots of photos of TV cameras and police, as well as some shots of the crowd.

 

These things happen, but typically the tourists are safe. We are usually back on the ship before dark.

[Mines]

See below a report from the Baltic times. It seems that the war of words will go on for a while.

 

"Lithuania, Latvia react to Tallinn events

 

Apr 29, 2007

From wire reports

 

Lithuanian President Valdas Adamkus said his country supports the position of the Estonian government in its recent moves related to the controversial Bronze Soldier monument, which was removed from central Tallinn Friday morning during two nights of rioting.

 

Speaking from the Vatican, where he was meeting with Pope Benedict XVI, the president said he was observing the developments in Tallinn with great concern.

 

The president's press service reported that Adamkus stressed that this exceptionally sensitive procedure of reburying the remains of World War II soldiers was being conducted observing international legal standards and paying due respect to the fallen.

 

However some Lithuanian politicians on April 28 had expressed fear that the riots that broke out in Tallinn over the removal of the Bronze Soldier monument would spread to Lithuania as well.

 

"The situation is very bad. What happened is no special provocation. The events are related to a certain interior policy of Russia, political competition. Any method must go to boost popularity. At the time when a peaceful demonstration was taking place in St. Petersburg, ultra-nationalists gathered to a meeting in Moscow. Their leader was making instigations to bomb Estonia down to hell, and the crowd was cheering. That is shocking," the Vakaru Ekspresas daily quotes member of the European Parliament Gintaras Didziokas saying.

 

In his opinion, Russia's response was inadequate and intolerable.

 

"They say they are the only fighters against fascists. That is absolutely wrong. But the Estonians are equally stubborn, failing to start a dialog with Russia over the disassembly of the monument. The Russians can really end diplomatic ties, anything can be expected from them. Russia has too much large-sized equity in Estonia, and the economical relations are much better than, say, with Lithuania," Didziokas said.

 

Chairman of the Lithuanian delegation at the Baltic Assembly Valerijus Simulikas told the Vakaru Ekspresas newspaper that Estonians should have allowed more time for a diplomatic dialog with Russia.

 

"Estonians ran out of patience. We at the Assembly said that they must proceed via the diplomatic way. But they did not even make up any work group on removal of the monument. They knew the consequences. Now the commotion may jump to the [other] Baltic states. A diplomatic war will go on, and Russians will employ every opportunity. Diplomatic sanctions are possible, too," the member of parliament said.

[bookdoctor1]

Hope things calm down really soon, we will be there Wed. May 5th on the NCL Dream. Would hate to miss this great port but know the cruiseline will do what they think is best.

The people of Tallian are in my prayers.

Vicki

[Mines]

Latest news from the Baltic Times:

 

The Bronze Soldier monument, whose relocation at the end of April sparked the worst civil unrest Estonia has seen in years and led to a major diplomatic row with Russia, has now become a magnet for Finns and other tourists, Postimees Online reports.

 

The monument was set up and opened to the public in its new location in Tallinn’s Garrison Cemetery on April 30.

 

When the Bronze Soldier stood in its original location, it didn’t attract interest from foreign tourists, but now visitors to the capital are rushing out to get their photos taken in front of the famous monument, Postimees quotes from the Finnish daily Ilta-Sanomat.

 

In the words of Kim and Kai Malmgren, who travelled here specifically to see the Bronze Solder, the new location is ideally suited for the monument.

 

They said that many residents of Finland and Northern Europe want to see the scandalously famous monument with their own eyes.

[marylizbeth]

Has anyone heard of any news about any further unrest?

[Mines]

Has anyone heard of any news about any further unrest?

Latest report from THE BALTIC TIMES:

 

Quote " As life returns to normal in the Estonian capital more than a week after riots hit the city center, the largest immediate concern among residents is whether fresh unrest will come on May 9, the day Russian-speakers traditionally celebrate the Soviet Union’s victory in World War II. " Unquote

 

Let's wait and see if all passes off well tonight, hopefully there will be no more trouble.

[eldercruser]

I just received this message from our Tallinn guide:

 

 

I just walked in the city centre and it was not so bad anymore.

Some window shops are covered with plywood (first of all shops selling drinks were attacked ), but city centre was clean and no serious traces of damage.

Today Russia celebrated Victory Day. This day has been quiet in Tallinn, Russians brought flowers to the monument of Soviet soldier (monument was relocated few days ago) and so it has been a day in Estonia without alarming events.

It appears things have pretty much returned to normal.

[Andiamo39]

Glad to hear that things are calming down in Estonia because the cruise lines will by-pass a port on the slimmest pretext. That happened to me just this past February. We were on Celebrity Constellation on a Panama Canal cruise, slated to go to Costa Rica. There was a minor, and I mean minor, protest against the World Bank that didn't even make it onto CNN and they cancelled the port. Lots of us were really upset because that was the port everyone wanted to go to. It was as if St. Petersburg was cancelled on a cruise to the Baltics. I'm not saying Tallinin equates with St. Petersburg but it would be a shame to miss it.

 

Just my opinion

 

Andee B

[exarche02]

I will be in Tallinn on July 3rd. Please update us if anything else happens!

[barante]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.boycott21may21,1,6574638.story?ctrack=2&cset=true

[SF]

What did the article say? Link wants you to register before it will allow you access.

[barante]

Russia slams the door on all things Estonian

War monument dispute escalates into boycott

By Erika Niedowski

sun Foreign Reporter

Originally published May 21, 2007

MOSCOW // More than a half-dozen types of cheese disappeared from behind deli counters. Small bottles of chili powder, garlic seasoning and lemon pepper - indeed, every spice with the blue Santa Maria label - vanished from supermarket shelves. Old Tallinn liqueur, a sweet staple in a punchy cocktail called the hammer and sickle, suddenly was harder to come by.

 

The word had come down from on high: Estonian products are no longer welcome in Russia.

 

 

 

 

The row over the removal of a Soviet-era war monument and the remains of soldiers from a central square in the Estonian capital first prompted a diplomatic war of words, even looting and civil unrest. And then, Russia did what it increasingly tends to do in disputes with nations - including Georgia, Ukraine and Poland - that have fallen out of its favor: It started cleansing itself of things Estonian.

 

Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov urged businesses and consumers to shun Estonian goods and sever all ties with enterprises - even cultural ones - across the border. Within days, some of the largest grocery chains in the Russian capital had yanked hundreds of products and stuck signs in their windows saying they wouldn't sell Estonian.

 

Sergei Ivanov, a first deputy prime minister, added another insult on top of the boycott: Russians should stop vacationing in the Baltic nation, he said. Russian Railways made it easier to abide by his suggestion when, days later, it ended rail service between St. Petersburg and Tallinn for what it called "commercial" reasons, only two months after resuming that very route. "Routine maintenance" on the tracks also disrupted Russian exports of oil and gas through Estonia by nearly a third; Estonian ports likewise have seen a decline in Russian cargo.

 

"Is it right to earn money together with people who live in a country so enormously disrespectful to Russia?" asked Sergei Yushin, head of Russia's National Meat Association, which appealed to its members to suspend business contacts with Estonian firms and stop the import of Estonian goods.

 

 

Common reactions

Boycotts, along with the import ban or other economic sanctions, have become standard Russian reactions - or, some say, over-reactions - during disagreements with its neighbors, many of them former Soviet satellites that have drifted from Russia's influence and edged closer to Western Europe.

 

In recent years, Russia has banned imports of Georgian wine, spirits, a popular mineral water (used here as a cure for hangovers) and produce; Moldovan wine and tobacco; Polish fresh and frozen meats and plants; Ukrainian meat and dairy products; and Latvian sprats, a type of canned fish. The Georgian wine ban alone, which has been in place since March of last year, is thought to have cost winemakers there some $50 million.

 

"Every second customer asks us about Georgian wine," said Giorgi Asatiani of Tiflis, a popular Georgian restaurant in Moscow where, against all tradition, eating Georgian food now has to be done without the flowing of Georgia's trademark reds and whites. "Of course this is politics, and people understand it."

 

The stated reason for the bans is health and sanitary violations - and violations have existed, though the European Union has called the continuation of the Polish meat ban, imposed in 2005, unjustified. But Russia's claims that politics has nothing to do with it seem to be largely transparent spin: The ban on Georgian wines, for instance, was accompanied by the severing of all transportation and trade links - even mail service - with Georgia and the revocation of work and residence permits for Georgians living in Russia. The nation's most popular newspaper circulated a special insert: "Respect Yourself and the Motherland: Don't Drink Georgian Wine!"

 

Boycotts and bans are used the world over, sometimes to great effect. The colonists in what would become the United States of America boycotted British goods on the eve of the American Revolution, dumping tea into Boston harbor. African-Americans boycotted the public bus system in Montgomery, Ala., during the civil rights struggle. The U.S. boycotted the 1980 Olympics in Moscow; Russia returned the favor in 1984, refusing to send athletes to the Games that year in Los Angeles.

 

But Russia has increasingly invoked a new diplomatic mantra on matters ranging from the price of oil to, in the case of Estonia, the placement of a Soviet war memorial: Don't cross us, or else.

 

In an impromptu snub, Russia boycotted a major economic forum in London last month. It was reported that the Kremlin issued an order for high-ranking politicians and businessmen not to attend, after Russia expressed official outrage at a call by self-exiled oligarch Boris Berezovsky, who lives in London and whose extradition Russia is seeking, for a "forced regime change" here.

 

Even Russia's friends aren't immune. In January, during a row between the state-run natural gas giant Gazprom and Belarus over the price of oil and transit fees, Russia began refusing to issue customs clearance for Belarusian sugar.

 

Like many Russians and ethnic Russians who live in Estonia, Boris Vishnevsky, of the St. Petersburg branch of the liberal Yabloko party, condemned Estonia's "tactless" removal of the Bronze Soldier statue. But he called the response from Russian officials overly aggressive and out of proportion. The unofficial response has been harsh, too: At least one door in Moscow bears a sign saying "entry for Estonians and dogs prohibited."

 

"What the Russian authorities did discredited them," said Vishnevsky, who admits to being partial to Old Tallinn liqueur. "They showed how incompetent and hysterical they can be."

 

Still, the boycott goes on.

 

The Sedmoi Kontinent grocery chain purged its shelves and stockrooms of about 200 types of Estonian-made products, including dairy items, spices and canned goods, and sent them back to the supplier, said Valeriya Lomonosova, a company spokeswoman. The Vester chain in the Russian region of Kaliningrad made its point in more dramatic fashion: It burned them.

 

 

Not a PR action

Aleksei Tsivilyov, deputy head of the Saint Petersburg chapter of the Young Guard - the youth wing of the ruling United Russia party - never paid attention to product manufacturers before the flap over the Bronze Soldier. Now, he has a list of cheeses, chocolate, alcohol and yogurt products he won't buy because they're made in Estonia. His group is promoting the boycott by passing out thousands of "We Don't Sell Estonian Goods" stickers that were printed for free by a local advertising agency; 76 locations are participating.

 

"This action is not a PR action. It's in memory of our grandparents, who shed their blood for us," Tsivilyov said. "We all know that our earth is covered with the remains of our grandparents. We didn't have to tell people or persuade people to take part.

 

"We want our protest to turn into a national action," he said. "We'll carry on until the world community pays attention to what's happening in Estonia: lawlessness and the birth of fascism."

 

erika.niedowski@baltsun.com

[exarche02]

Thanks for posting the article.

[barante]

The Russia/Estonian situation is akin to the long-standing confrontation that exists between the United States and Cuba. Russia is worried, because Estonia, which ends pretty close to St. Petersburg, has joined NATO. Also, Estonia's president, Toomas Ilves, used to be an American living in New Jersey and working for Radio Free Europe, a U.S. financed propaganda station that was initially bankrolled by CIA.

None of this should worry tourists. Estonia is perfectly safe. It's a great port to visit.

[janohara]

Eldercruser - Who is your tour guide in Tallin? We are looking for one for our visit in Aug07 - please send me an email at janohara25@hotmail.com

 

Thanks-