Getting Passport for Underaged Child when Ex-Spouse is being Uncooperative

[Lisichka]

I know this is off topic, but if his ex got remarried, he shouldn't have to pay a dollar in child support..that is up to the new hubby...at least that is how it is my state.

 

There isn't a single state in the U.S. where a Dad gets out of paying child support just because Mom got remarried (unless the new husband legally adopts them and the bio-Dad gave up all legal rights. Even then some courts still make them pay CS). You are totally and absolutely wrong on that.

 

I see you live in West Virginia. Nope, not even in West Virginia.

[boatlover]

Well, sent the ex the passport consent form off the Passport Services website and nicely asked him if he would be willing to sign it so that I could take my daughter in this weekend to begin the process. He basically responded that he was "not going to sign anything" and that he would show up at the post office at some point to take care of it when his schedule opens up. So, I'll just wait and see what happens. I'm going to sit tight for a moment and try to let this go until June when I'll be in the six month period before the cruise. I'm feeling a little obsessive about this right now so I need to step back and let things take their course. He may make time in the next few weeks but I think if I continue to badger him about it's only going to make him know how much I want this, thereby causing him to drag his feet even more.

 

 

I am sorry you have to deal with this. Just a thought, and I could be way off, you said he was controlling... do you think he keeps putting you off so you will continue to contact him? Maybe he enjoys the game (and the interaction with you albeit negative) and if you stopped playing for a few days/weeks he might get anxious and contact you/give in? Again, just a thought. I wish you the best of luck.

[scissorgui]

If this were me, I would hire myself a traveling notary. Show up at his job, and ask him to sign everything right there in front of his coworkers...sometimes you need to bring an a$$ down a level. I don't tolerate mind/control games, and when people try to play them with me, I fight back-and I fight dirty.

 

Let all his coworkers know how much of a rear end he is being about letting his daughter take the trip of a lifetime!

[rsscaptain]

I know this is off topic, but if his ex got remarried, he shouldn't have to pay a dollar in child support..that is up to the new hubby...at least that is how it is my state.

 

 

That'll leave a mark! :o

[scissorgui]

There isn't a single state in the U.S. where a Dad gets out of paying child support just because Mom got remarried (unless the new husband legally adopts them and the bio-Dad gave up all legal rights. Even then some courts still make them pay CS). You are totally and absolutely wrong on that.

 

I see you live in West Virginia. Nope, not even in West Virginia.

 

Well that was the case with a friend of mine when we were younger..his mom got remarried, and the child support checks stopped coming. And his father never lost parental rights. Now granted this was quite a few years ago (15 to be exact)

[kathyemma]

One way to maybe give your ex the control he craves, is to ask him for advice on how to go about getting a passport, or to give him several options that you feign confusion about ("can you help me with getting a passport? I feel you are much better at doing this than I am, and was hoping you could give me some direction. Do you think we should go to a post office or to a government agency? What is the latest we could do this and still be ok timewise?"). When he can control some aspect of the passport-getting, it may satisfy this hunger he feels inside of him to control.

 

 

A disclaimer: while my ex continues to be controlling, he has in many ways become a 'better' man. I am hopeful this is a trend that will continue.

 

This sounds like a wonderful idea. Almost like dealing with a child - don't tell them to get dressed in the morning - ask them if they want to wear the blue dress or the pink skirt - once they feel like they have a say in the matter it goes much better.

 

Good luck

 

Kathy

 

PS BTW, I got a passport for my dd 2 years ago without with her fathers permission - but then again, I am lucky, I didn't put his name on the birth cert - I wasn't married when she was born and when they asked me after the birth who the father was I said I didn't know. Of course at the post office they asked about a father and when I said I didn't know they said how is that possible. I said pick one - either i was drunk or went to a sperm bank - they issued it.

[forpaws]

I know this is off topic, but if his ex got remarried, he shouldn't have to pay a dollar in child support..that is up to the new hubby...at least that is how it is my state.

 

Are you sure about that? I've never known any state to require a new husband or wife to be financially responsible for someone else's kids. Unless they legally adopt the child, in which case the biological parent gives up his or her right to that child.

 

I've heard of alimony being stopped upon remarriage, but NEVER child support, nor should it be. The only people who should ever have to be responsible for a child is his or her parents, and both of them at that. :confused:

[Cruisegirl6]

Since you want to take your child on a cruise and your ex is causing this problem could you possibly call child services and explain your problem and see whether they can assist you?

[evolutiondob]

Evolutiondob ... just seeing a few of the other posts and I too feel we have the same ex. He too likes to think he is doing me a favor etc. I think people (not just men!) who do this are doing it because they like to see it get to us. As hard as it is, try not to show how much it bothers you. I have found that the less emotion I show him regarding issues, the better off it is.

 

And definitely keep track of things ... you never know when you may need it for assistance or a c.y.a. Mine is sneaky and will wait for the "right" moment. He "gathers" his pieces prior to making his "attack". I have learned to not let the guard down and to never turn my back on him.

 

You are absolutely right that he does it because he likes to get to me. I never get this type of resistance with things that aren't really important to me. Just the things that are. Therein lies the secret, I guess. It's not to let him see how important the more important things are to me. But, it's difficult to do when you have thousands of dollars and your children's happiness riding on something.

[forpaws]

There isn't a single state in the U.S. where a Dad gets out of paying child support just because Mom got remarried (unless the new husband legally adopts them and the bio-Dad gave up all legal rights. Even then some courts still make them pay CS). You are totally and absolutely wrong on that.

 

I see you live in West Virginia. Nope, not even in West Virginia.

 

Sorry Lisichka - I typed my reply before I saw that you had already posted.

 

I am sorry you have to deal with this. Just a thought, and I could be way off, you said he was controlling... do you think he keeps putting you off so you will continue to contact him? Maybe he enjoys the game (and the interaction with you albeit negative) and if you stopped playing for a few days/weeks he might get anxious and contact you/give in? Again, just a thought. I wish you the best of luck.

 

Just like a child who gets in trouble deliberately, just to get attention. Even bad attention is better than no attention! :p

[evolutiondob]

My blood just boiled when I read the latest response from your X. I would not be able to accept his answer and would be getting some legal advice.

 

A suggestion:

Has your DD asked her Daddy to help her out in getting a passport so that she can "go on the very fun cruise ship with mommy?" :cool:

 

While the thought of involving DD is VERY tempting, I have never been one to put the children in the middle of adult situations. It's already bad enough that he does it all the time. There have been so many occasions when he's said negative things about me in front of the children and I just keep quiet. I think it's difficult enough for them to deal with their parents not being together anymore without having to take sides. Interestingly, my DD mentioned to me that she was there when he sent the initial nasty e-mail saying that we had discussed it and don't ask him again. DD said that he told her he didn't know why I kept on bugging him about it since I had several months to take care of this and he wasn't going to jump just because I was ready. Him even saying that to her or allowing her to see his nastiness is bad enough without me putting her in a position to try to coax her father into doing something I want. Hopefully, he'll understand how important this trip is to her and do the right thing.

[evolutiondob]

Your situation makes me very glad that my husband and I are not divorced. I feel for you.

 

My parents were divorced and put us first always, with no nastiness going on. My Dad now says that they just wanted to make it as easy on us as humanly possible. My husband's Dad never paid his court ordered divorce settlement, paid only one month of child support ever, and his Mom reacted by telling the boys way too much about what was going on. What a mess. :(

 

Good luck, I hope everything works out. Come back and update us when the status changes.

 

I went in for counseling for several months before I left my marriage in order to get tips on how do leave without completely destroying my children. One of the things the counsel told me is that most children will adjust to a divorce relatively easy (and I'm not saying that to imply that it IS easy, but just that the adjustment can go smoothly) if the parents learn to work together and not tear each other apart in front of the children. Unfortunately, oftentimes there is one parent who doesn't take the breakup well and puts the kids through hell in order to get back at the other parent. It's just one of those things, you know? I try my hardest to do right, honestly, he's just an a$$. No matter how hard I try he just won't cooperate unless he's calling the shots.

[evolutiondob]

As a word of caution be careful involing children in parental issues. We thought we did a good job with this with our daughter only to learn later how she felt put in the middle when we didn't realize it. Just as they are not bargaining chips, they are not moderators either.

 

FWIW time goes by quickly and before you know it, you won't have to deal with it forever! We have six peaceful years under our belt now. ;)

 

Awww, the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel. To think, if my daugther were just three years older I wouldn't even be dealing with this, lol.

 

But I wholeheartedly agree with you, children should never be used as pawns under any circumstances. I certainy can't control him, but I won't stoop to his level.

[Fran Harp]

Then don't grovel and don't give him any warning. If, as you say, he is a control freak, that's his reason for doing this. Show him you are a big girl now, your begging days are over, and go straight to the lawyer and turn it over to him.

And if at all possible, try to keep your daughter out of what you plan to do. Just do it.

 

I agree with Micki and the lawyer above. You've asked him, he's not doing it. Probably assuming you're going to grovel. Don't give any warning...go to a lawyer, ask the courts for assistance. That *is* what they are there for....

as long as you let him do this, he still controls you.

 

Fran in Toronto

[forpaws]

Well that was the case with a friend of mine when we were younger..his mom got remarried, and the child support checks stopped coming. And his father never lost parental rights. Now granted this was quite a few years ago (15 to be exact)

 

What may have happened is that the mom got remarried and the dad just stopped sending any child support payments. Maybe mom was okay with that or just didn't want to fight with him. I've had several friends in that situation who just forget the money because they don't want to deal with the ex.

 

As far as the dad not losing his parental rights, that's a tricky and complicated area. In Arkansas, a father's visitation rights are not just taken away because he's not paying support, or is behind in paying support. In fact, the custodial parent can be in contempt of court for withholding visitation because of child support not being paid. Again, I said in Arkansas...other states may have different rulings. (I'm not saying that's right or wrong...I'm just stating how Arkansas handles it, so don't flame me over visitation rights!)

 

But I promise you the payments didn't stop just because mom got remarried. There's more to the story.

 

On the other hand, if you get state-supported child assistance in Arkansas, you do not have an option on pursuing or not pursuing child support. You are required to do so in order to continue receiving benefits for the child.

[evolutiondob]

Okay, he sounds like a jerk. But you're playing his game, and allowing him to jerk you around. Even if he signs the paperwork in front of a notary, there's nothing to stop him from filing to prevent you from taking the children out of the country just a few days before you leave. Control freaks do that.

 

Perhaps you can check with your lawyer and get a fixed fee for getting the court order, which shouldn't take even an hour of his or her time? If he's just too expensive, perhaps it is time to get a new attorney that you can afford. Unless you have a judge's order allowing you to get a passport AND take vacations out of the country with both of your children, your ex could step in at the last minute and really ruin all your vacation plans. If the order is written well (remember, your lawyer writes the draft order), you can probably get permission to take the children out of the country for vacations not to exceed X weeks in length for the duration of the order, which preferably would be good until your youngest child turns 18. You might need to offer in the draft order to forego any vacations during holiday periods that your husband has visitation. (If he's got Christmas under the current order, it wouldn't be very fair to try and take the kids for a Christmas cruise unless you gave up some other time that was significant.)

 

Looked at this way, you're spending one lawyer's fee to obtain a release from these kinds of problems for the full remaining time your children are minors, which may be the best early Christmas present you've ever bought yourself.

 

Yes, it is aggravating that he's so unreasonable, but the reality is that you can't change him. Change what you can change -- the court order -- and move on with your life. I'd also second the previous recommendation that you keep your kids out of it. It isn't healthy for them or for you.

 

Best of luck, and congratulations on getting that college diploma.

 

This is absolutely an option if he absolutely refuses to cooperate. But, I'd prefer to use more diplomatic means first - that being, wait him out for about two weeks and see if he comes around. While he's controlling, he also knows how important this trip is for his kids. He doesn't want to look like a bad guy in their eyes so I believe he's do it - just in his time. But, what I won't do is wait until getting the passport in time become an issue. If he doesn't make an effort to coordinate his schedule in a reasonable amount of time, I will seek legal recourse.

 

Oh, and thank you for the congratulations. It took me 15 years to complete my degree but I did it!!! That's why it was so important to me that my children be at the gradulation. I wanted them to see that despite making wrong decisions in life that slow you down, anything is possible if you don't give up.

[forpaws]

While the thought of involving DD is VERY tempting, I have never been one to put the children in the middle of adult situations. It's already bad enough that he does it all the time. There have been so many occasions when he's said negative things about me in front of the children and I just keep quiet. I think it's difficult enough for them to deal with their parents not being together anymore without having to take sides. Interestingly, my DD mentioned to me that she was there when he sent the initial nasty e-mail saying that we had discussed it and don't ask him again. DD said that he told her he didn't know why I kept on bugging him about it since I had several months to take care of this and he wasn't going to jump just because I was ready. Him even saying that to her or allowing her to see his nastiness is bad enough without me putting her in a position to try to coax her father into doing something I want. Hopefully, he'll understand how important this trip is to her and do the right thing.

 

You couldn't have stated this any better, IMO! You sound like a great, loving, caring mom who has her daughter's best interests at heart.

 

DD is watching what dad does and is getting big enough to form her own opinions about him. Kids are soooo smart, and he's going to start harming the relationship with his kids from his own actions. You'll start seeing that shortly - I watched a cousin of mine totally alienate his two daughters because he absolutely would NOT stop making negative comments about their mother. Very sad, but he brought it on himself.

 

Asking DD to say that to him about going on the trip is involving her in the situation, which isn't fair.

 

I wish all divorced parents saw things like you see them.

[evolutiondob]

I have been giving this some more thought, hoping to maybe give you some advice. When I look back on my relationship with my ex, one thing has never changed: his need to control everything and everyone around him. When I first married him he had me refold all the towels in the house because I had folded them lengthwise first, and he wanted them folded the other way. Unfortunately, this was only the tip of the iceberg. I have since learned that his need to control stems from his need to feel secure and lessen his own anxiety/insecurities. I also know now that when he felt he lost 'control' over me (for whatever reason, usually it was because I stood my ground and refused to give in on matters that were important to me), he became angry and sometimes violent. After years of living with him, and after years and years in court fighting over various issues, I have found only one thing works with controlling (wo)men: give them the control they need in a way that is acceptable to you. Fighting back does not help. The minute you fight back they feel out of control, and they will feel the need to regain control thereby making the situation worse, etc etc. I am not sure what your situation is, but my ex can outspend and outlast me in court any day of the week. As such, I have chosen to no longer fight. Right now I have 4 cruises booked for summer '08 because my ex will not tell me when he will have the children and when I can go. Obviously I will only go on one, but rather than fight the issue, I just forked out the money and let him set the course of when this gets decided. I asked him once, and after that I let it go. I will deal with it when the time comes and until then I refuse to let my ex control me by freaking me out with all the "what if's".

 

One way to maybe give your ex the control he craves, is to ask him for advice on how to go about getting a passport, or to give him several options that you feign confusion about ("can you help me with getting a passport? I feel you are much better at doing this than I am, and was hoping you could give me some direction. Do you think we should go to a post office or to a government agency? What is the latest we could do this and still be ok timewise?"). When he can control some aspect of the passport-getting, it may satisfy this hunger he feels inside of him to control.

 

I know there is no easy way to deal with someone who has this need to control. However, giving them the illusion of control (or if they think you look up to them) may often get you the result you want.

 

Good luck.

 

A disclaimer: while my ex continues to be controlling, he has in many ways become a 'better' man. I am hopeful this is a trend that will continue.

 

You know, the sad thing about it is that what you are suggesting will ABSOLUTELY work. I used that tactic for several years after our divorce when I needed him to cooperate with me. Oh, the stories I could tell. But, I gave into his need to control me for 13 years of marriage. I gave up my education because he was insecure that I wouldn't want him if I got my degree. I gave up my friends because he felt they weren't good for me. I gave up my goals because they weren't in line with what he thought was best for me. I wore the clothes he wanted me to wear because he didn't want people seeing how attractive I really was. At this point, I just can't "give it up" anymore to appease his controlling, insecure and manipulative ways. I REFUSE to allow him to control me any longer!! I am not confused. I don't need his help. I know exactly what needs to be done. All I need is for him to bring his tired, controlling a$$ to the post office and sign a piece of paper!! lol If he doesn't want to do amicably, he can talk to my attorney!! The clock is ticking . . .

[evolutiondob]

I am sorry you have to deal with this. Just a thought, and I could be way off, you said he was controlling... do you think he keeps putting you off so you will continue to contact him? Maybe he enjoys the game (and the interaction with you albeit negative) and if you stopped playing for a few days/weeks he might get anxious and contact you/give in? Again, just a thought. I wish you the best of luck.

 

Well, we tend to interact quite a bit because the children are at an age where they are quite involved in school activities. So, we do have a fair amount of contact. But, I do notice that when I back off and stop pressing an issue, he tends to come around. He did tell me a year or so ago that he realizes he's still angry and bitter about the relationship ending. So, I think at certain times these feelings flair up and he just becomes evil and difficult.

[evolutiondob]

If this were me, I would hire myself a traveling notary. Show up at his job, and ask him to sign everything right there in front of his coworkers...sometimes you need to bring an a$$ down a level. I don't tolerate mind/control games, and when people try to play them with me, I fight back-and I fight dirty.

 

Let all his coworkers know how much of a rear end he is being about letting his daughter take the trip of a lifetime!

 

Hmmm, quite an intriguing thought. The old covert ambush!! lol I like it. I like it!!

[Fran Harp]

You know, the sad thing about it is that what you are suggesting will ABSOLUTELY work. I used that tactic for several years after our divorce when I needed him to cooperate with me. Oh, the stories I could tell. But, I gave into his need to control me for 13 years of marriage. I gave up my education because he was insecure that I wouldn't want him if I got my degree. I gave up my friends because he felt they weren't good for me. I gave up my goals because they weren't in line with what he thought was best for me. I wore the clothes he wanted me to wear because he didn't want people seeing how attractive I really was. At this point, I just can't "give it up" anymore to appease his controlling, insecure and manipulative ways. I REFUSE to allow him to control me any longer!! I am not confused. I don't need his help. I know exactly what needs to be done. All I need is for him to bring his tired, controlling a$$ to the post office and sign a piece of paper!! lol If he doesn't want to do amicably, he can talk to my attorney!! The clock is ticking . . .

 

There ya go....:D

 

I wish I could say I know what you're going through but I don't - so all I can say is more power to you.

 

Fran in Toronto

[evolutiondob]

Since you want to take your child on a cruise and your ex is causing this problem could you possibly call child services and explain your problem and see whether they can assist you?

 

Hmm, hadn't thought about that. Perhaps they can give me some advice at the very least. I don't know why calling child services gives me the willies though. I have this vision of them coming to my house and taking my children away from me because he and I keep fighting - lol!!

[forpaws]

You know, the sad thing about it is that what you are suggesting will ABSOLUTELY work. I used that tactic for several years after our divorce when I needed him to cooperate with me. Oh, the stories I could tell. But, I gave into his need to control me for 13 years of marriage. I gave up my education because he was insecure that I wouldn't want him if I got my degree. I gave up my friends because he felt they weren't good for me. I gave up my goals because they weren't in line with what he thought was best for me. I wore the clothes he wanted me to wear because he didn't wanhttp://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=10159219&posted=1#post10159219t people seeing how attractive I really was. At this point, I just can't "give it up" anymore to appease his controlling, insecure and manipulative ways. I REFUSE to allow him to control me any longer!! I am not confused. I don't need his help. I know exactly what needs to be done. All I need is for him to bring his tired, controlling a$$ to the post office and sign a piece of paper!! lol If he doesn't want to do amicably, he can talk to my attorney!! The clock is ticking . . .

 

And I'm sure you're aware that your post describes an emotional abuser, right? (I'm sure you probably know that already, especially since you did the counseling thing prior to your separation.) ;)

 

Perhaps you need to just say to him that the passport processing system is really backed up, the passport process needs to be started soon in order for it to come in time, and I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE YOU if you wait so long that it doesn't get here in time and DD doesn't get to go (the latter part being directed at the ex, not you of course!)

[evolutiondob]

You couldn't have stated this any better, IMO! You sound like a great, loving, caring mom who has her daughter's best interests at heart.

 

DD is watching what dad does and is getting big enough to form her own opinions about him. Kids are soooo smart, and he's going to start harming the relationship with his kids from his own actions. You'll start seeing that shortly - I watched a cousin of mine totally alienate his two daughters because he absolutely would NOT stop making negative comments about their mother. Very sad, but he brought it on himself.

 

Asking DD to say that to him about going on the trip is involving her in the situation, which isn't fair.

 

I wish all divorced parents saw things like you see them.

 

Let the church say AMEN!! Children become the casualties of the adult's war.

[evolutiondob]

And I'm sure you're aware that your post describes an emotional abuser, right? (I'm sure you probably know that already, especially since you did the counseling thing prior to your separation.) ;)

 

Yes indeed. My counselor also called him a misogynist. When I first heard it I thought that term was very very harsh but, in retrospect, it is quite fitting.

 

Funny thing, I volunteer for a domestic violence and rape crisis hotline. You are 100% correct that those are characteristics of an emotionally abusive person. I didn't know it while I was married, but I am crystal clear now.

 

I like your suggestion about letting him know that I will not shield DD from the fact that she was unable to go because her father didn't sign the passport papers.