Lay Down Collar Vs Wingtip

[Cruise Arizona]

Ok I just tortured my DH by having him do the dreaded "Try on Your formal wear and make sure it fits" hour.

 

Unfortunately his Wingtip collared shirt doesn't fit, but his "lay down" collar shirt does. It is an evening wear type shirt with the spots for the shirt studs and cuff links, but it just doesn't have the wing tip collar or any pleats. He's always worn this shirt with a vest and a long matching dress tie instead of a bow tie. When I went online to research a place that might have his large shirt size, I saw that they showed this style of shirt with a bow tie and cummerbund.

 

What I couldn't tell was weather or not the shirt had the little pleats.

 

It looks like I can order a pleated front wing tip collar in his size and get it here in time for the cruise. But do I need to?

 

Here's my question.... If you are wearing a cummerbund and bow tie, does the shirt need to be the one with the little pleats, or can it be an after five plain front shirt?

[Wadadli1]

Ok I just tortured my DH by having him do the dreaded "Try on Your formal wear and make sure it fits" hour.

 

Unfortunately his Wingtip collared shirt doesn't fit, but his "lay down" collar shirt does. It is an evening wear type shirt with the spots for the shirt studs and cuff links, but it just doesn't have the wing tip collar or any pleats. He's always worn this shirt with a vest and a long matching dress tie instead of a bow tie. When I went online to research a place that might have his large shirt size, I saw that they showed this style of shirt with a bow tie and cummerbund.

 

What I couldn't tell was weather or not the shirt had the little pleats.

 

It looks like I can order a pleated front wing tip collar in his size and get it here in time for the cruise. But do I need to?

 

Here's my question.... If you are wearing a cummerbund and bow tie, does the shirt need to be the one with the little pleats, or can it be an after five plain front shirt?

 

Actually, a wing collar has historically been meant for white tie only. The regular collared shirt is fine. Pleats are not necessary. Our boys are taking one of each when we go on a trip in January (pleats and plain).

 

So no, you don't need to. His regular-collared/pleatless dress shirt and cummerbund and bowtie will be perfect. And the vest, too, should he be in the mood. Oh, the boys have vests, too (spending other peoples' money! ;) ). They like variety and all that, so they will take turns with cummerbunds and vests.

[meaty_petey]

Both wing collar and laydown collar shirts are correct black tie attire in North America. (In Britain the attached wing collar shirt is not considered correct not because it lacks the formality of the detachable wing collar.)

 

Technically speaking the wing collar should have a plain or pique front while the laydown collar should have a pleated front. However, if all the other details of your husband's outfit are correct the absence of pleats is hardly a major transgression.

 

Either shirt can be worn with a cummerbund or a waistcoat (vest).

 

Have a great cruise!

 

Peter

 

P.S. You can find out all the details of correct black tie at my site www.blacktieguide.com

[Bigdasher]

Peter, what a lovely site that is. Many thanks for the instructions on tying the bow tie. I shall persuade husband (dinner jacket man) and son (kilt boy) to ditch the cheats dickie bows and go for the real thing.

Also, I hate coloured cumberbands - they make me shudder!

 

BigD

[Curt Jerome Wild]

Peter, what a lovely site that is. Many thanks for the instructions on tying the bow tie. I shall persuade husband (dinner jacket man) and son (kilt boy) to ditch the cheats dickie bows and go for the real thing.

Also, I hate coloured cumberbands - they make me shudder!

 

BigD

Hey BigD!

Don't mess with us "kilt boy"s!:eek: :p ;)

Cruise Arizona...

It will be fine with what you are talking about, and especially for the cruise!

Maybe even try that shirt and bowtie on with the vest instead of the cummerbund and see if that "works"...;)

 

It's all just trying out various options and ideas for you now, they all can be good.

CJW

[hajekfam]

My husband cannot wear a wing-tip collar - his neck is too short and thick that it looks like the wings are coming out of his face. He always wears a lay down collar with bow tie and vest or cummerbund. He wears the pleated lay down collar shirts, but he bought one that wasn't pleated at Men's wearhouse. I thought it didn't give the formal look with a bow tie so he is saving it until I buy him a formal long tie and vest or the long tie to go with a vest he already has.

[just4now]

I much prefer the look of the turndown collar with a tuxedo. It's a much more "finished" look. I really dislike that "ring around the collar" look men have when wearing a black tie with a wingtip collar. My son wears a tuxedo regularly (he's a concert musician) and he's getting a tuxedo shirt, turndown collar w/front pleats, and matching studs and cufflinks for his birthday later this month.

[BlueHerons]

I think the lay down collar looks so much nicer with a tuxedo!

[caviargal]

I prefer the lay down collar with a tux, and also like the look of a long tie and vest over a cummerbund and bow tie.

[meaty_petey]

FYI, formal shirts have "wing collars." "Wing tips" are for shoes. ;)

[lel5344]

Peter,

 

I recently retired from 35 years of Industrial Sales and I am now working part-time with the leading Men's Clothier in the US. Your information is absolutely perfect. May I have your permission to print it out as a handout to some of our befuddled customers?

 

Thank you kindly.

 

lel5344

[meaty_petey]

Peter,

 

I recently retired from 35 years of Industrial Sales and I am now working part-time with the leading Men's Clothier in the US. Your information is absolutely perfect. May I have your permission to print it out as a handout to some of our befuddled customers?

 

I'd be delighted! Please e-mail me using the link on the bottom of any page on the web site so we can discuss further.

[Red Rox]

I have always owned both the wing collar and lay down collar formal shirts and I have enjoyed both through the years. I must admit that I prefer the lay down style for comfort. (I'm one of those guys with a shorter neck) But what I really enjoy is having choices. And so I give myself even more choices with studs and cufflinks. (I have 5 different sets) And I have about a half dozen different bow ties. My absolute favorite though is the black one that I tie myself. And I tend to flaunt it too. As the evening goes on and the dancing heats up, some other guys like to shed their ties and loosen their collars. I like to untie the tie and let it drape on the shirt with the collar unbuttoned. :D

[meaty_petey]

I like to untie the tie and let it drape on the shirt with the collar unbuttoned. :D

 

You're right - the only thing more suave than a self-tied bow is one that's undone. It's no coincidence that this image was prominently featured in the poster for the latest Bond film!

 

Although as a traditionalist I always wait until the ladies have retired for the evening before letting down the tie, unbuttonning the top shirt button and enjoying a final Scotch with the boys. Ahhhh . . . now I can't wait for my next black tie affair . . .

[Cruise Arizona]

OK, Daniel Craig is so hot!!!... Casino Royale was maybe my favorite Bond movie, and look... a lay down collar, no pleats, If only my DH could look so cool. (He's kind of a computer nerd type:p.) I think this will work just fine and save me the trouble of having to go formal wear shopping next week.

 

I'm quite tired as the dance studio recital is this week and we've been doing dress rehearsals from 2:30 to 7:30 all week. Oh I digress. The cruise looks better and better to me.

[meaty_petey]

If only my DH could look so cool.

 

Convince him to learn how to tie his own bow tie - he'll be half way there!

[Red Rox]

You're right - the only thing more suave than a self-tied bow is one that's undone. It's no coincidence that this image was prominently featured in the poster for the latest Bond film!

 

Although as a traditionalist I always wait until the ladies have retired for the evening before letting down the tie, unbuttonning the top shirt button and enjoying a final Scotch with the boys. Ahhhh . . . now I can't wait for my next black tie affair . . .

After I posted my comments I went and read through your website. It is a great site! Well done my friend. But then I thought 'Oh no! I must be committing a huge faux pax. I'm gonna get hammered for this.:eek: '

What a relief to find that you not only approve, (under the proper conditions, of course) but find that it's even cool. Can't wait to get on board the ship in July. I wonder if anyone will recognize me in the late evening hours?:rolleyes:

[CDRMark]

I have both and wear both. Gentlemen's formal wear allows for only so many "real" options. This is one. The others are : cufflinks/studs; braces; ties; and cummerbunds/waistcoats.

Fads need not apply.

And gents, remember, you may not wear miniature medals AND a boutonniere.

Cheers

Mark