Westbound TA View of Statue of Liberty

[Pilgrim70]

We have taken the QE2 TA eastbound and were told that the view of the Statue of Liberty was better when arriving NY on a westbound cruise. Of course that was when we left from docks in Manhatten. Now that the QM2 docks in Red Hook what is the arrival view like? Is it worth getting up early to see?

This is our first time on QM2, Aug.9, and I'm looking forward to a great crossing.

Thanks.

[BettyBoop3850]

Hi pilgrim70

Yes it is worth getting up to see the statue of Liberty. If you are in a stateroom with a balcony with an unobstructed view on the port side you can see it very well from your balcony.

[Kindlychap]

I'm not convinced that it is worth getting up to see the Statue of Liberty. The views are not as they were with Manhatten, and the statue isn't really very impressive from a distance, which is all you get now.

 

It is worth getting up for the approach to New York harbour, especially the bridge, and I suppose that could mean staying up to see the statue. I'd be tempted to go back to bed after the bridge now I feel.....

 

It rather depends on how many times you have sailed into New York, whether you've seen the statue before, what the weather is like and whether you want to see the statue for what it is or what it stands for.

 

I've seen it several times, never been desperately impressed with it and once more isn't going to change my mind.

 

You can also see it from the dock.

 

Now if you were sailing into Manhatten, I'd be telling you to get up early and stay up!

 

Matthew

[Pilgrim70]

It's what it stands for. My grandparents came over from Poland many years ago so sailing into NY for me has some special thoughts.

Thanks.

[Kindlychap]

It's what it stands for. My grandparents came over from Poland many years ago so sailing into NY for me has some special thoughts.

Thanks.

 

You know, one of the delights of the whole silliness about "freedom fries" was that the good ol' US of A made such a thing of the flag and the symbols of America - including, of course, the Statue of Liberty.

 

Which, of course, was a gift from the French!

 

Back to being serious, as an Englishman it doesn't really have the emotional hold on me as it does to Americans. Hence my lack of excitement with it.....

 

Matthew

[stowaway2k]

You know, one of the delights of the whole silliness about "freedom fries" was that the good ol' US of A made such a thing of the flag and the symbols of America - including, of course, the Statue of Liberty.

 

Which, of course, was a gift from the French!

 

I wish over here we could have called this embarrassing silliness a "delight".

The matter of the statue's origins was conveniently forgotten by Capital Hill, as was the never-mentioned French bank-rolling of the American Revolution.

Sixteen months to election day... :)

 

As to the emotional hold on Americans...the current runs strong and deep.

[Kindlychap]

 

 

I wish over here we could have called this embarrassing silliness a "delight".

The matter of the statue's origins was conveniently forgotten by Capital Hill, as was the never-mentioned French bank-rolling of the American Revolution.

Sixteen months to election day... :)

 

As to the emotional hold on Americans...the current runs strong and deep.

 

I know it is a huge symbol to Americans. I'm not sure if there is a physical equivalent in England, but I'm certain we have musical ones in Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March no. 1, and Holst's Jupiter.

 

Matthew

[stowaway2k]

I know it is a huge symbol to Americans. I'm not sure if there is a physical equivalent in England, but I'm certain we have musical ones in Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March no. 1, and Holst's Jupiter.

 

Though not 'national anthems' in the literal sense, I remember being very impressed when the British by-far-majority on the Caronia, after a two-week cruise, sang these two songs on the last night. Waving white hankies and all.

 

The American national anthem, The Star Spangled Banner, is curiously difficult. I couldn't sing it right now if I had to.

I got all choked-up when, on Sept. 12 2001, seeing on the television news that the Star Spangled Banner was played during the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace.

Cousins!

[Kindlychap]

 

Though not 'national anthems' in the literal sense, I remember being very impressed when the British by-far-majority on the Caronia, after a two-week cruise, sang these two songs on the last night. Waving white hankies and all.

 

The American national anthem, The Star Spangled Banner, is curiously difficult. I couldn't sing it right now if I had to.

I got all choked-up when, on Sept. 12 2001, seeing on the television news that the Star Spangled Banner was played during the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace.

Cousins!

 

Did you see the Last Night of the Proms a few nights later, with Slatkin playing the Barber Adagio for Strings? That was one of the most highly charged performances of anything I've ever heard. Dreadful inspiration, but he rose to the occasion magnificently. As an Englishman I was knocked sideways - God only knows what a musical New Yorker made of it.

 

Matthew

[stowaway2k]

 

Did you see the Last Night of the Proms a few nights later, with Slatkin playing the Barber Adagio for Strings?

 

 

Thank you for the reminder.

[Druke I]

Well, I think I understand where Kindlychap is coming from.

 

My dad was a Brit, and when he emigrated, after being demobbed from The Great War, he had to enter Canada, as the US quota for Brits was full. Stayed there awhile, and then he entered the US from British Columbia. The Statue of Liberty never meant much to him, and probably even less, as it came from the French - and we know how the Brits feel about the French.

 

My mother's family did enter via Ellis Island when they came from Norway at the beginning of the 20th century, so they would have passed by the Statue.

I'm sure they preferred to forget the whole matter - the Irish Immigration Officers spelled their name phonetically, and they never did find out how to change it back to the original Norwegian, with the conjoined letters, etc.

 

All said and done, I do find it somewhat a thrill to see the Statue of Liberty.

[soblue]

It's what it stands for. My grandparents came over from Poland many years ago so sailing into NY for me has some special thoughts.

Thanks.

 

I can understand your thoughts.

 

The view is great having just come back from New York, I personally prefer Red Hook.

 

Just wished the weather wasnt so bad.

[Kindlychap]

Well, I think I understand where Kindlychap is coming from.

 

[edit]

 

All said and done, I do find it somewhat a thrill to see the Statue of Liberty.

 

I'm not denigrating it, nor saying it isn't worth seeing.

 

From my position

 

(a) I don't feel the symbolism.

 

(b) I've seen it several times.

 

© I'm usually suffering from slight champagne exhaustion, so to speak.

 

Hence the attraction of sleep!

 

Matthew

[Kindlychap]

I've just watched the YouTube excerpt of the Barber. Wow! It's a piece Kirsten listens to a lot, and is normally played for beauty. It wasn't there - Slatkin sets into it with a grittiness that belies the normal gloss, and wrings from it a performance that any conductor would be proud of. Like the performance of Mahler's Ninth by Bruno Walter from just before the second world war, one can never listen to a performance like that without knowledge of the background, but none the less the quality of the conception and playing was superb. No wonder he couldn't stay on stage.....

 

Watching the Stars and Stripes flying alongside the Union Flag was also very touching, in an evening that is normally, as we all know, so very English.

 

Matthew

[soblue]

I'm not denigrating it, nor saying it isn't worth seeing.

 

From my position

 

(a) I don't feel the symbolism.

 

(b) I've seen it several times.

 

© I'm usually suffering from slight champagne exhaustion, so to speak.

 

Hence the attraction of sleep!

 

Matthew

 

Matthew your position, was pointed out earlier which we all understood

[travel-to-go]

Okay,

Let me catch my breath first.

 

The matter of the statue's origins was conveniently forgotten by Capital Hill, as was the never-mentioned French bank-rolling of the American Revolution.

I, too, am embarrassed by my countrymen's convenient forgetfulness. It seems we can only love or hate, and must make enemies of people. Here in Connecticut, we are reminded of Rochambeau's travels in support of our revolution, gathering food and supplies to fortify Washington's troops, and helping plan. The Statue does inspire me. Today, countries simply do not make such elegant and meaningful gestures. Emma Lazarus poem is truly beautiful. It's only too bad that we do not live those inspiring words. As one whose roots run deeply here, back to the native Americans who discovered America before there was an America, I have mixed feelings, but the part of me which came from the old world, does not. I just wish we could learn from our past, from our history and our mistakes (and admit them going forward) and not tar all people with one brush. This is not specific to one subject currently in the news, but many.

Did you see the Last Night of the Proms a few nights later, with Slatkin playing the Barber Adagio for Strings? That was one of the most highly charged performances of anything I've ever heard. Dreadful inspiration, but he rose to the occasion magnificently. As an Englishman I was knocked sideways - God only knows what a musical New Yorker made of it.

 

Matthew

I do not care for classical music. I especially am not fond of moody string compositions. I do not know this piece, and under ordinary circumstances, I would not listen to it. Too depressing for my tastes. I did not at first, understand the context here. Once I did, it certainly took my breath away. I had to take off my reading glasses. The tears tend to steam them up. I have never heard of the last night of the proms and don't know what it is. But, wow!

Does this conductor (Barber) always look so "pained" or was that due to the special circumstances of the piece. I would not have been able to sing, certainly, if it were a piece with lyrics. I'm not sure I would have been able to play (certainly not a woodwind, though maybe strings might be easier. You don't have to maintain a tight embouchure.)

 

Thank you both for sharing that piece.

Matthew, Of course, I cannot know how the average Englishman feels about various sights from your history. Would Trafalgar Square, Big Ben, the statue of Admiral.. um, uh... Sorry, Not up on my British history too much, Halesy?

 

Well, anyway,

Thanks Matthew and Kyle.

 

Karie,

drying her eyes.

And thanks to those who have accepted America and her people with all her flaws. And cried along with us, even when we haven't been as sensitive in return.

[stowaway2k]

Does this conductor (Barber) always look so "pained" or was that due to the special circumstances of the piece.

 

Hi Karie,

 

The music was composed by the American composer Samuel Barber, in 1936.

It's performance that night, at the Last Night of the Proms, was conducted by the American conductor Leonard Slatkin.

 

Hense, the profound symbolism of a British institution such as the Proms ending it's season in Sept. 2001 with American music performed in the Albert Hall with the BBC orchestra conducted by an American.

[travel-to-go]

Hi Karie,

 

The music was composed by the American composer Samuel Barber, in 1936.

It's performance that night, at the Last Night of the Proms, was conducted by the American conductor Leonard Slatkin.

 

Hense, the profound symbolism of a British institution such as the Proms ending it's season in Sept. 2001 with American music performed in the Albert Hall with the BBC orchestra conducted by an American.

Thanks Kyle.

Sorry I got the names backwards

Still not sure what the "last night of the Proms" is, but I could see the symbolism. IT was very touching.

 

Karie,

who thinks Kyle is a fount of knowledge and culture of all sorts.

[Kindlychap]

Matthew, Of course, I cannot know how the average Englishman feels about various sights from your history. Would Trafalgar Square, Big Ben, the statue of Admiral.. um, uh... Sorry, Not up on my British history too much, Halesy?

 

Vice-Admiral Lord Horation Nelson, who was not only a great sailor, but whipped the behind of both the French and the Spanish at once. What a guy!

 

Totally ignored the conventions of the day, took amazing risks, and destroyed the combined Spanish and French fleets - with his own ship, HMS Victory (still the oldest commissioned warship in the world, still a ship with an Admiral all of her own) taking the lead into the fray with his half of the fleet - flying, as he did so, the message "England expects every man will do his duty". Killed by a French sniper at the height of the battle, taken below and died. Fortunately news of the victory over the combined fleets reached him in this world.

 

As for Nelson's column in Trafalgar Square, I really just regard it as itself, and the building in that area that sticks in my mind for symbolism is South Africa House - so long the scene of protests about Apartheid and finally seeing Nelson Mandela on the balcony - after he had walked through the crowds - and I was there! It's what strikes me every time I drive through the square.

 

It's difficult to think of a building that sums up Englishness to me. Possibly St. Pauls - especially in view of those magnificent photographs of it during the Blitz. What makes England special is the countryside, the literature and the music that goes with it. The memories of Churchill, and "The Few" in the Battle of Britain. It's a sense of fair play, love of the land and sublime knowledge that to be born as an Englishman is the greatest of all possible starts. It is the British Broadcasting Corporation, in the great Reithian tradition. As a combination that is pretty good. Too bad that most of it has been watered down and destroyed by Thatcher and Blair, but I'm not getting into that......

 

The Proms, for Karie's benefit, are a long standing (over 100 years) concert season in the summer, now run under the auspices of the BBC. Held (now) in the vast Albert Hall, the characteristic is the prommers - those without a seat in the central area of the hall. There is a sense of everyman with prommers, and as such the concerts are less high brow in their audiences than most, although the programming is adventurous. The Last Night is a wonderful celebration of all things English, and the penultimate night is normally a performance of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony - with Schillers words in the last movement "Oh friends, let us hear not these sounds, but rather let us raise a hymn to brotherhood" (I paraphrase slightly - it's a bit longer than that!). That symphony was the self same work played by Barenboim and the Berliner Philharmoniker by the Brandenberger Tor when the wall came down - and now serves as the European Anthem.

 

Anyone in England over the summer should try and see some of them, if you have any love of music at all.

 

Matthew

[pb82]

Vice-Admiral Lord Horation Nelson, who was not only a great sailor, but whipped the behind of both the French and the Spanish at once. What a guy! ...

Anyone in England over the summer should try and see some of them, if you have any love of music at all.

 

Matthew

Anyone in England this summer had better be a great sailor too, and it wouldn't hurt to bring your own boat.

Paul

[Kindlychap]

Anyone in England this summer had better be a great sailor too, and it wouldn't hurt to bring your own boat.

Paul

 

Very true. We're high enough to be okay, but had a dreadful journey home yesterday from Aylesbury to Leicestershire - 70 miles that took well over four hours. Eventually we had to go in the wrong direction to get out of the Aylesbury Vale there was so much flooding, and so many roads blocked.

 

Our news is full of flooded homes. It is very sad to watch, and must be heart-rending for those who are having to abandon their home to the rising waters.

 

Matthew

[travel-to-go]

Yes- Admiral Nelson- That's who I meant! A Hero.

And thank you for the description of the Proms. It sounds very ... There's a word I am looking her- it means fair and equal. Don't get old. You lose words! And names of famous admirals!-

Anyway, I like your description of it as being more for everyman.

When the arts are reachable to everyday people. everyone benefits, and it is truly a richer world we live in. Thank you for your explanation.

 

Karie,

who is learning a bit at a time!

 

P.S. Makes me think of Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops on 4th of July.

 

Vice-Admiral Lord Horation Nelson, who was not only a great sailor, but whipped the behind of both the French and the Spanish at once. What a guy!

 

Totally ignored the conventions of the day, took amazing risks, and destroyed the combined Spanish and French fleets - with his own ship, HMS Victory (still the oldest commissioned warship in the world, still a ship with an Admiral all of her own) taking the lead into the fray with his half of the fleet - flying, as he did so, the message "England expects every man will do his duty". Killed by a French sniper at the height of the battle, taken below and died. Fortunately news of the victory over the combined fleets reached him in this world.

 

As for Nelson's column in Trafalgar Square, I really just regard it as itself, and the building in that area that sticks in my mind for symbolism is South Africa House - so long the scene of protests about Apartheid and finally seeing Nelson Mandela on the balcony - after he had walked through the crowds - and I was there! It's what strikes me every time I drive through the square.

 

It's difficult to think of a building that sums up Englishness to me. Possibly St. Pauls - especially in view of those magnificent photographs of it during the Blitz. What makes England special is the countryside, the literature and the music that goes with it. The memories of Churchill, and "The Few" in the Battle of Britain. It's a sense of fair play, love of the land and sublime knowledge that to be born as an Englishman is the greatest of all possible starts. It is the British Broadcasting Corporation, in the great Reithian tradition. As a combination that is pretty good. Too bad that most of it has been watered down and destroyed by Thatcher and Blair, but I'm not getting into that......

 

The Proms, for Karie's benefit, are a long standing (over 100 years) concert season in the summer, now run under the auspices of the BBC. Held (now) in the vast Albert Hall, the characteristic is the prommers - those without a seat in the central area of the hall. There is a sense of everyman with prommers, and as such the concerts are less high brow in their audiences than most, although the programming is adventurous. The Last Night is a wonderful celebration of all things English, and the penultimate night is normally a performance of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony - with Schillers words in the last movement "Oh friends, let us hear not these sounds, but rather let us raise a hymn to brotherhood" (I paraphrase slightly - it's a bit longer than that!). That symphony was the self same work played by Barenboim and the Berliner Philharmoniker by the Brandenberger Tor when the wall came down - and now serves as the European Anthem.

 

Anyone in England over the summer should try and see some of them, if you have any love of music at all.

 

Matthew

[travel-to-go]

Very true. We're high enough to be okay, but had a dreadful journey home yesterday from Aylesbury to Leicestershire - 70 miles that took well over four hours. Eventually we had to go in the wrong direction to get out of the Aylesbury Vale there was so much flooding, and so many roads blocked.

 

Our news is full of flooded homes. It is very sad to watch, and must be heart-rending for those who are having to abandon their home to the rising waters.

 

Matthew

Oh dear,

My co-worker is from Leicestershire.

His wife and two children were flying in today from JFK.

 

I did not realize the flooding was over there.

 

I'm so sorry that things have turned this bad.

 

Karie,

who knows how bad the raging floods can be and hopes the rains end and all are well.