Why use a Travel Agent

[Vanilla]

This is a Princess cruise board. This post sounds like it should be moved to the "discussion" board. It has nothing to do with Princess Cruises.

[jff50]

Eliminating commissions and driving business directly to the cruise lines would increase the cruise lines expenses (notably, phone reps) ... thus they'd need to actually keep the fares up (as if commissions were still built in) to cover said expenses.

I don't buy that. Plus if travel agents can prove that they provide a value equal to/greater than their fees--people would continue to use travel agents and cruise lines would have reduced expenses (by not paying commissions). The fact is, that a number of people do their own research, and their travel agent acts primarily/solely as an order taker. If those people need less service from a travel agent, why shouldn't they be able to pay less for a reduced level of service.

[Ivanova]

I don't buy that. Plus if travel agents can prove that they provide a value equal to/greater than their fees--people would continue to use travel agents and cruise lines would have reduced expenses (by not paying commissions). The fact is, that a number of people do their own research, and their travel agent acts primarily/solely as an order taker. If those people need less service from a travel agent, why shouldn't they be able to pay less for a reduced level of service.

 

Because the cruise lines are trying to avoid become a commodity like the airlines, they don't want to fall to that place where they compete solely on price. They are happy with where the pricing is, and have no incentive to change it.

[jff50]

Because the cruise lines are trying to avoid become a commodity like the airlines, they don't want to fall to that place where they compete solely on price. They are happy with where the pricing is, and have no incentive to change it.

The cruise lines would compete on the basis of price and services, just like they do now. There are plenty of ways to research what the differences are between the cruise lines--one of those is to use a travel agent. The biggest change would be that travel agents would have to compete on the basis of price and services. Personally, I think that would be best for the customer. But I might think differently if I were a travel agent.

Cruise lines have no incentive to change the current model, because they don't want to alienate their primary distribution channel. That doesn't mean it's best for the customer.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

so in order to use a TA instead of booking direct I'd have to pay extra? How long do you think it will be before a lot of TA's go out of business?

 

Bill <--not a TA

[willysgrandma]

so in order to use a TA instead of booking direct I'd have to pay extra? How long do you think it will be before a lot of TA's go out of business?

 

Bill <--not a TA

 

That is exactly what would happen - there would no longer be TA's.

 

Many TA's won't book just airfare anymore without charging a fee because airlines don't pay commission. If cruise lines and hotels did that as well, there would be no reason to be a TA anymore.

 

The value added for using a TA is that you have an advocate if something goes wrong. It doesn't cost you extra using a TA for a cruise and you usually can get a gift at the very least (be it a bottle of wine, onboard credit etc.) and have an advocate in the event you have a problem.

 

I've gotten clients future travel credits back for non-refundable trips when they didn't purchase insurance on several occasions, I've gotten clients partial refunds for poor service or problems with rooms - and basically because we work for an agency with over 4,000 agents that gives these companies a LOT of business. A TA has a little bit more pull than an individual when a problem arises.

[jcanino]

Ever notice how many TA's that don't post much come out of the woodwork when a thread like this comes up?????? Funny, huh?

 

Let's find out what your profession is and see how you like everyone bashing it saying that they can do a better job of it than you can.

 

In case you haven't seen my posts, I have not just come out of the woodwork. You previously said that you can get a cheaper price on anything travel related than any TA. If that's what you think so be it. I am not going to fill up this message with stories of people who made the wrong choice or the wrong decision when booking travel on their own or through so called "discount broker". If you think that the lowest possible price you can pay is your best deal, then you haven't given any thought to what could happen to put you in a real bind. Sure you may be able to find a cheaper hotel than I can in XYZ city. Actually, I can see that cheap hotel as well but I choose not to sell it to you because I don't want to to come back and complain to me that it was a **** hole.

 

Service and expertise should be what you are looking at as well. I had clients wanting to go to WDW and asked for a specific hotel. I knew that it was not right for their family and suggested another property. A week before they travelled, they called and said they wanted to switch to their original specific resort. I made the change and they were charged a change fee (from the travel company, not my agency). They came back and sat down in my office and said that they should have listened to me. All the reasons I gave them for not staying there were true. They agreed my suggestions would have been the better choice and they will take my suggestions next time. That is what a true travel professional can do for you.

[jcanino]

The identifier is hidden in the profiles. Except for those that violate the rules and post their business name in their signatures. Not you, lvtotrvl. You know who I am talking about and I would think as a TA you would be upset as to what they are doing when you follow the rules.

 

If you read the rules for travel agents, you will see that we ARE allowed to pit our names, agency names and our credentials in our signature. In my opinion, I think that the travel agents that hide behind their signature and made up names and don't tell everyone that they are a travel agent up front are the ones to watch for.

[jff50]

so in order to use a TA instead of booking direct I'd have to pay extra? How long do you think it will be before a lot of TA's go out of business?

 

Bill <--not a TA

Right now we are paying for travel agents. We just don't have a choice. I guess if they go out of business, it means that they are not delivering services that customers value, equal to the amount we are paying. So why are we now forced to pay more for something than we think it is worth.

[sonomaphil]

If you read the rules for travel agents, you will see that we ARE allowed to pit our names, agency names and our credentials in our signature. In my opinion, I think that the travel agents that hide behind their signature and made up names and don't tell everyone that they are a travel agent up front are the ones to watch for.

 

Joe,

 

I was content to let this thread die but travel agents keep bring it back from the dead.

 

If you would look at post #22, Host Caroline was warning travel agents about advertising that might or might not have been going on in this thread before you got here. Since you weren't here, of course I wasn't talking about you.

[jcanino]

Right now we are paying for travel agents. We just don't have a choice. I guess if they go out of business, it means that they are not delivering services that customers value, equal to the amount we are paying. So why are we now forced to pay more for something than we think it is worth.

 

How can you say that you are paying more by using a travel agent? If the cruise price is $1000 whether you book directly or through a travel agent you are paying nothing extra. If you book through the cruise line, they retain the commission they would have sent to the travel agent to cover their own overhead and expenses.

[Ivanova]

Here's an article from last month (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070610/COLUMNISTS28/706100305/1201/TRAVEL), notably:

 

When airlines reduced, then eliminated agency commissions, they kept the profit windfall for themselves and did not lower airfares to the flying public.

 

So those that think cruisefares will drop if commissions are taken out of the equation, don't hold your breath.

[jcanino]

Joe,

 

I was content to let this thread die but travel agents keep bring it back from the dead.

 

If you would look at post #22, Host Caroline was warning travel agents about advertising that might or might not have been going on in this thread before you got here. Since you weren't here, of course I wasn't talking about you.

 

Well, I came into the thread several days after it started as I was traveling. I don't read every message before I comment, I do it as I read. I'm glad Caroline posted the official rules but the Hosts don't always do that. This thread my die but there will be many others just like it.

[sonomaphil]

Let's find out what your profession is and see how you like everyone bashing it saying that they can do a better job of it than you can.

 

Computer Network Engineer. MCP, MCSE, MCT

 

Joe,

 

I'm very glad that your services help your clients. All I'm doing is pointing out that in today's world it is not usually needed. Most of the same info that you can provide everyone already has access to. All it takes is a little research. And that research will more than likely bring a lower price for the same product.

 

No different that buying a car. Another profession that works on commission. If one dealer had the car I want for $1000 more than the dealer down the street...well, that's an easy choice for me.

[jff50]

How can you say that you are paying more by using a travel agent? If the cruise price is $1000 whether you book directly or through a travel agent you are paying nothing extra. If you book through the cruise line, they retain the commission they would have sent to the travel agent to cover their own overhead and expenses.

What I have said throughout is that I am now paying travel agents more than I think they are worth to me. But I don't have a choice. As I've stated before, I'd like to see all cruise lines eliminate commissions, and reduce fares. If all the cruise lines eliminated commissions, competition would drive fares down. Travel agents would then have to compete on a fee basis, providing services that the consumer values enough to knowingly and voluntarily pay for. Right now we are paying for them whether we value it or not. Those travel agents that are efficient at providing services that the customer values should do fine. Those travel agents that can't--well.

If all consumers consider your services to be worth your compensation (currently commissions), you shouldn't lose any business or income. You might gain some from other travel agents.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Right now we are paying for travel agents. We just don't have a choice. I guess if they go out of business, it means that they are not delivering services that customers value, equal to the amount we are paying. So why are we now forced to pay more for something than we think it is worth.

 

could you explain further how we are paying for TA's. To be quite frank I'm very confused. Are you speculating that if they didn't pay commissions the cruiselines would lower the rates?

 

How can you expect TA's to deliver services when they are not getting paid any money? Again if they charge fees who is going to pay more? :confused:

 

Bill

[sonomaphil]

could you explain further how we are paying for TA's. To be quite frank I'm very confused. Are you speculating that if they didn't pay commissions the cruiselines would lower the rates?

 

How can you expect TA's to deliver services when they are not getting paid any money? Again if they charge fees who is going to pay more? :confused:

 

Bill

 

It's no different than out here in wine country. You'd think that by coming out here and going directly to the winery you'd be getting a discount. After all, no middleman, no shipping cost, no retail markup. But no in reality at a winery you pay full suggested retail price. That's because the wineries don't want to bite that hand that feeds then, namely the distributors and retailers.

 

No different than a cruise line not wanting to undercut the TA's. What happens is that when a cruise line charges (all for example, nothing specific here) at their web site $799 for a cruise a TA can widely discount that fare. One might charge $750, one might charge $699 etc. The commission is built into the fare as set by the cruise line. So the cruise line may actually have a price of $649 for the fare and $150 is built in as commission. The cruise lines don't lower the fare if you book direct, they just pocket that difference. So in theory if you got rid of the commissions that $799 fare at the cruise line web site would be $650...using these numbers as examples only...not gospel for percentages. Any TA's want to tell us the actual percentages?

 

Joe, care to provide those?

 

If you're looking for a travel company who uses the no outside booking model, look no further than Southwest Airlines. Notice you can't book them at major travel sites, only their site. (Though I head this might be changing)

[Ivanova]

could you explain further how we are paying for TA's. To be quite frank I'm very confused. Are you speculating that if they didn't pay commissions the cruiselines would lower the rates?

 

How can you expect TA's to deliver services when they are not getting paid any money? Again if they charge fees who is going to pay more? :confused:

 

Bill

 

What he's saying is that he's paying for a TA even when he books direct with the cruise line, because the cruise line has the TA commission built into the cruise fare.

 

But when airlines stopped paying commission, they didn't reduce fares. There's no reason to think cruise lines would either.

 

If nothing else, they'd have higher overhead to maintain dealing with a huge increase in direct only bookings.

[Ivanova]

Any TA's want to tell us the actual percentages?

First you have to remove the noncommissionable fare. On a $799 cruisfare the noncommissionable amount would probably run around $159 ... bringing the commissionable cruisefare to $640. Many travel agents/agencies make 10% of the cruisefare ... $64. In the best case scenario the commission might be 17% or $108.80, and in some instances there is a commission split between the agency and the agent (i.e. 30% to the ageny and 70% to the agent).

[sonomaphil]

First you have to remove the noncommissionable fare. On a $799 cruisfare the noncommissionable amount would probably run around $159 ... bringing the commissionable cruisefare to $640. Many travel agents/agencies make 10% of the cruisefare ... $64. In the best case scenario the commission might be 17% or $108.80, and in some instances there is a commission split between the agency and the agent (i.e. 30% to the ageny and 70% to the agent).

 

Thank you Susan!

[S.S.Oceanlover]

It's no different than out here in wine country. You'd think that by coming out here and going directly to the winery you'd be getting a discount. After all, no middleman, no shipping cost, no retail markup. But no in reality at a winery you pay full suggested retail price. That's because the wineries don't want to bite that hand that feeds then, namely the distributors and retailers.

 

No different than a cruise line not wanting to undercut the TA's. What happens is that when a cruise line charges (all for example, nothing specific here) at their web site $799 for a cruise a TA can widely discount that fare. One might charge $750, one might charge $699 etc. The commission is built into the fare as set by the cruise line. So the cruise line may actually have a price of $649 for the fare and $150 is built in as commission. The cruise lines don't lower the fare if you book direct, they just pocket that difference. So in theory if you got rid of the commissions that $799 fare at the cruise line web site would be $650...using these numbers as examples only...not gospel for percentages. Any TA's want to tell us the actual percentages?

 

Joe, care to provide those?

 

If you're looking for a travel company who uses the no outside booking model, look no further than Southwest Airlines. Notice you can't book them at major travel sites, only their site. (Though I head this might be changing)

 

Even if they eliminated commissions I doubt they'd reduce the prices. Only time would tell. They'd have to hire many more PVP's and pay them although they don't get paid much unless they actually book a cruise.

 

Bill

[jff50]

could you explain further how we are paying for TA's. To be quite frank I'm very confused. Are you speculating that if they didn't pay commissions the cruiselines would lower the rates?

 

How can you expect TA's to deliver services when they are not getting paid any money? Again if they charge fees who is going to pay more? :confused:

 

Bill

Who do you think is paying for the travel agents commissions. I doubt that the cruise lines have a printing press that prints up the money for travel agent commissions. I guess that means that the consumers are paying for the travel agents.

I've stated several times that if all cruise lines eliminated commissions, competition would force them to reduce fares.

As for who is going to pay fees, if travel agents provide services that consumers value at/above their fees this shouldn't be a problem. If people aren't willing to pay for their services, so be it.

[sonomaphil]

What he's saying is that he's paying for a TA even when he books direct with the cruise line, because the cruise line has the TA commission built into the cruise fare.

 

But when airlines stopped paying commission, they didn't reduce fares. There's no reason to think cruise lines would either.

 

If nothing else, they'd have higher overhead to maintain dealing with a huge increase in direct only bookings.

 

But wasn't the reason that airlines stopped paying commissions was that they were in trouble in the first place? Wasn't it a reaction to try and cut cost to stave off bankruptcy? (like that worked! :rolleyes:) Notice that once again we come back to Southwest, profitable for years with their model of no middleman.

 

The cruise industry is a healthy industry in general. I wouldn't actually think they would do something like this in the near term. Well, maybe a one line company. If CCL did this model to say Carnival, they run the risk of the TA's not selling Princess, HAL etc. in retaliation.

 

Isn't NCL different than the others? I notice that some sites don't sell NCL.

[newmexicoNita]

Computer Network Engineer. MCP, MCSE, MCT

 

Joe,

 

I'm very glad that your services help your clients. All I'm doing is pointing out that in today's world it is not usually needed. Most of the same info that you can provide everyone already has access to. All it takes is a little research. And that research will more than likely bring a lower price for the same product.

 

No different that buying a car. Another profession that works on commission. If one dealer had the car I want for $1000 more than the dealer down the street...well, that's an easy choice for me.

For you it may not be necessary, but that isn't always the case: I had to situations come up recently: one was very serious: a client paid by check, we sent the appropriate funds to the cruise line who, somehow misplaced them. I can not begin to tell you the hours that were spent locating the missing $3000.00, not to mention the final day for payment had come and gone. Because of my dliligent efforts and that of my company we saved ther reservation and the money was located. Could the client have done what we did? Sure, if they wanted to spend hours and days on the phone or in this case, probably not because the client is 88 years old. She never knew this happened, she will be on her cruise and everything is aok. Another was entitled to a reduction in price, I will admit, she emailed me to see if there was a reduction, but I made the call.

 

Even in simple bookings we do the research, sometimes hours, sometimes a few minutes, and on occassion. we have clients that tell us exactly what they want, but we do work for our commissions and you pay nothing for our time.

 

Go ahead, do it yourself, you probably would be the type of client that would know or think you know more than us anyway.

 

Nita

[newmexicoNita]

First you have to remove the noncommissionable fare. On a $799 cruisfare the noncommissionable amount would probably run around $159 ... bringing the commissionable cruisefare to $640. Many travel agents/agencies make 10% of the cruisefare ... $64. In the best case scenario the commission might be 17% or $108.80, and in some instances there is a commission split between the agency and the agent (i.e. 30% to the ageny and 70% to the agent).

actually the non commissionable amount is probably a little higher as the port charges alone are running about $140 in most cases. I just don't think people realize how little we actually make or what we do for our money. Now that you have shown as little as $64 of course by two we need to explain, we don't get all that money, it is split between the agent and the company plus we have advertising costs, insurance, etc.

 

Like most agents, I love my job, it is a happy one and I don't do it to get rich, but when I see people like this guy tell us how he can do the same research, I get really Pi##e$.

 

Nita