Dive emergency questions

[KJHorton]

I took my advanced open water class this weekend. We had a dive emergency during our deep dive and it was incredible how quickly and effectively two instructors responded and handled the situation. Now I am wondering about the dive instructors/divemasters we encounter in other countries on cruises. I believe most of them are PADI or other group certified and supposed to have the same skills for emergency situations as my instructors. I am just wondering how well trained most of them really are; do they really adhere to the standards we have in the US? Has anyone ever encountered a dive emergency while cruising (or otherwise) and failed to have the leader of your group respond effectively?

 

I've always felt very comfortable in the water but this occurrence has really made me think twice. Thanks.

[CruiseKing]

There are 2 things to consider here.

#1, PADI is a world wide organization so I believe it's training standards are the same no matter where you are taught.

#2, for more comfort in the water you may want to look into taking the Rescue Diver Course. This will teach you CPE/and Defibrillator skills as well as in water emergency techniques and even how to administer O2 if necessary.

[KJHorton]

Tx. I would assume the same thing about PADI. However, I am just wondering if everywhere enforces the training requirements equally. I would assume for liability purposes that every dive operator makes certain their employees are properly trained. I know there are bad ones in every profession but when it comes to diving you really need to be on the ball.

 

Also, I had already planned to take the rescue course before this weekend. I eventually want to become a Divemaster. Now, I am even more sure that about taking rescue and also having my son and husband become rescue divers as well.

 

If anyone has seen a rescue handled really well, please let us know as well! Tx.

[andrewp]

PADI instructors should be held to the same standards when going through their final Instructor Exam because the exam is given by a member of PADI's office, not the Course Director who did the instructor's training. Not all agencies operate this way.

 

In terms of Diving Emergencies, experienced Divemasters and Instructors should react just as you observed this weekend. It's drilled into us from Rescue, right up to Instructor. Of course it's going to depend on the individual, but the training should ensure that they are equipped to do their best.

 

Don't rush into the Divemaster program though. When done properly, it's a tough challenge for many people and a lot of work to get through the internship. Enjoy diving, do your rescue course, enjoy diving, dive some more and then think about it. Your perspective on diving will change by going pro, but it can be very rewarding.

 

My 2 cents anyway....

 

Andrew

[scubaran]

Well, I have to say the reason I got my Rescue Diver certification is I've had to save three people in the water. In two cases, the dive masters were on the boat "giving encouragement" but not getting wet (the other was a diver with leg cramps under the water and not visible from the surface). In one of the cases I got an exausted diver to the ring on a line hanging 15 ft. off the stern of the boat with his wife watching over him. I got off to the side so the dive master on the boat could get them aboard (I was only Advanced trained at the time and wanted to leave the rest of the rescue to a professional). As I'm floating to the side, the dive master shouted out and "asked me" to tank tow him the rest of the way in, help remove his belt and fins and get him on the boat. Apparently he didn't want to get wet (even though the water was 80 degrees with 120 ft. vis on calm seas). I've unfortunately found that some dive masters are little more than deck hands and like anything else, without practice they get stale on what they do.

 

In unrelated incidences, my dive instructor (a PADI Regional Course Director) reported on a dive master that took a discover diver down to 80ft. on a wall (the PADI limit is 33ft.) and in another trip he asked to see the reported "full first aid kit" to find it empty with just a bandaid wrapper. He wouldn't allow his group to dive with the boat until they brought down a good first aid kit from the shop.

 

I guess, as they teach in the courses, you really are responsible for your own safety, and that of your buddy, which includes making sure you're aware of what help you can expect, what equipment is available and any special saftey actions (like if the water is rough, you'll experience a current, the vis is less than optimal, etc.) BEFORE you ever leave the dock.

 

I feel foolish sometimes asking questions but I know in the long run, if something happens, it's better to know what to expect than to find out the hard way. Ask, question, understand what to expect on the dive, you'll be glad you did.

 

Randall

 

P.S. Something I also found out is, if dive companies know you're a trained Rescue Diver or above, if you don't have a partner they tend to hook you up with greenhorns since you can act as an "acting dive master". Make sure you know how many dives your buddy has had, what conditions they've dived, when their last dive was, how comfortable they are with the equipment they'll be using, etc. This doesn't have to be an interigation, I work it into the conversation on the way out (and request a new partner (discretely) if you have a problem with their answers). It's your dive to enjoy (wanta know about my dive on that great wreck that I paid $125 for that lasted 6 minutes because my dive buddy freaked out on me?:) ).

[cmdchiefthom]

I've been a military diver since 1970, a PADI Instructor since 1971, a CMAS Instructor since 1975, and NAUI Instructor since 1976. Instructors are in the business of teaching diving to the average person who shows an interest in diving. Their business depends on giving that average person a quality education in diving physics, physiology, equipment, the underwater enviornment, and diving safety.

 

My basic philosophy was to keep them safe, and to train them on how not to kill themselves, and to escort them through the dives in order to show me, they knew not only the skills of knowing how to dive, but also the the comfort in diving, and the ability to plan their dives, and dive their plans. In the course of that training plan, many succeeded, but some simply didn't. It was my responsibility to insure that no matter in what category a student might fit, in the pool, or in open water, I was the guy responsible for their safety.

 

As an Instructor Training Course Director for PADI, my responsibility was to insure that instructor students understood and practiced the training standards established by PADI Headquarters. These standards are not only national standards, but international standards accepted by the international diver training organizations. The student's safety is the ultimate concern when giving an instructor a license to teach SCUBA.

 

PADI has an active enforcement component to the adherence to the published training standards. Instructors who fail to meet those standards, loose their affiliation with PADI, and hence their license to instruct. Unlike their students who, once certified can dive forever, failure to follow standards, results in loss of certification.

 

The ultimate responsibility of any diving instructor is training the basic Open Water Diver to the meet the standards of practice. Once that person has a card, he or she is good to go. Sure its nice to have those students continue on through advanced training, and I do encourage that, but from the card carrier's perspective, its not necessary to go out and dive.

 

Your question is a valid one. The Instructor is the key, and his or her's responsibilty is to adhere to the standards of practice. Dealing with emergency situations is part of meeting those International standards. You, as a consumer, at least when it comes to PADI, have the chance to voice your opinion to the PADI Headquarters after you finish your course of training. If you found your instructors during your advance course to be extremely capable, you should respond to PADI telling them that fact!;)

[w&k]

There are two main ways that divers get in trouble or worse: stupidity followed by panic, or panic followed by stupidity.

 

Get enough experience and/or training to feel comfortable with your own diving - you can't depend on your buddy or anyone else to be right there in 2 seconds if you have a problem.

 

Just because someone has a fistful of cards doesn't mean they are a good diver. One of the best divers I have even been with only had an OW (and 1000+ dives), and most of the truly bad divers I know have their AOW (and THINK they know how to dive).

 

By the same token, certifying agencies are alphabet soup. PADI, NAUI, YMCA, SSI, NASE, yada yada yada. There are differences between them, but the qualities of the person far outweigh their agency.

 

A person with a Instructor rating should be able to impart the knowledge you need to be a safe diver. A person with a Divemaster rating should be able to keep an eye on a group of divers, and head off problems before they happen, and deal with the problem if not.

 

Pay attention to the other divers in the group or on the boat. The 'old hands' are usually pretty obvious, and are usually more than willing to help, give advice, or even take you along on their dive. It's also nice to buy them a beverage afterwards if they do ;)

 

In my experience, MOST Caribbean operations send a divemaster to lead the diver group around. I don't personally need it, but appreciate the chance to be lazy and let someone else take the lead. That's not to say that I don't keep track of where we left the boat and all that other good stuff...

 

DH and I encourage new, less-experienced, and rusty divers to come with us on most of our trips, but we also carefully select the operations and dives with those folks in mind, inform the operation up front that we have newbies along, and we watch them ourselves in addition.

 

I have seen some folks have problems, and in MOST places the DM/instructor was right on top of it.

 

However, I have seen one DM totally ignore a rental equipment situation for a diver. One of 'our' divers was given a regulator that developed a pretty bad leak halfway through our second dive. DH and I were right there, stationed ourselves on each side of the lady, took a look at the rate of leakage, and kept her between us as we finished the dive in case the thing blew off entirely. The DM just shrugged when we FINALLY got his attention.

 

So, I guess the upshot of this ramble is: get some experience, get some training, pick up tips from other divers, and if it is doesn't seem like a good day to dive....don't get in the water.

 

...and just FYI - I'm Rescue.

 

Have a wonderful trip!

 

Wendy

[mipps]

Ok OK .... I will put my hand up to having a lil emergency @ 85 feet

 

Location: Fiji

Type of dive: Discover Scuba

Dive Company: "removed to protect the wicked"

Training: 30 minutes sitting on the front of the boat having a ciggy with a Fijian diver

 

Dive 1: I thought it was going to be a shallow get used to things type of dive. After swimming around for about 5 minutes he could see I was clearing my mask, equalizing, breathing and had a good handle on all the signals so he took me over the wall down to a depth of 98 feet and we swam around/through a ship on the bottom. The dive was like snorkeling on acid .... too much to look at.

 

Dive 2: This dive was around 7 coral cones to a depth of 85 feet. one on one with the master diver. We played rugby on the bottom with a ball starfish. checked out his pet moray and then a swim through the caves which run between the coral cones. This is where I ran into trouble by not equalizing properly on the ups and downs as we swam through the caves. I got a lil pop and intense pain in my right ear. I signaled my trouble and we started to surface straight away stopping for a couple of decompression stops along the way. Once surfaced the pain was still quite intense and he got me to dive into the water from the boat. I dont know what this does but it did the trick and the pain went away. Later I did get a small infection in this ear but my hearing was normal and I have not had the same issue on future dives.

 

I just wanted to say that I know we shouldnt have been doing the things we were doing especially on my first dives but I thought he handled things rather well and at all times even when in trouble I felt 110% safe and in good hands.

 

Thanks for all the comments from you pros .... it was very good and interesting reading.

 

If you are ever in Fiji. Beqa Lagoon rocks

http://www.divesitedirectory.co.uk/fiji_beqa_lagoon.html#overview

 

cheers

Scott

[scubamargie]

Just a reminder that even if you are a very experienced and trained diver you can still panic. I am usually a very confident and "in control" diver, however, a few years back (after 150+ dives) I had problems with my regulator leaking water right after jumping off the boat. Rough seas and that feeling of "I can't breathe" led to a "narrowing" of focus and I began to panic. Of course I could have filled my BC with air and floated above the waves. Of course I could have dropped my weights, but instead I clung to my dive buddy (and DH) for dear life and handed him the leaking regulator, thus letting more water pour into my mouth as I gasped for air.

 

We are both Rescue Diver certified now and I'm not nearly as cocky as I once was. It can happen to anyone, and usually begins with a very simple problem that is escalated by circumstances such as rough seas, faulty back-up (my octopus failed as well!), unavailable dive master (who was also the boat captain so he couldn't jump in and help me), etc. The good news is that when you do have a dive emergency you are far more aware of what can happen and mentally prepare much more thoroughly before each dive. We now refuse to dive with operators who don't leave someone topside on the boat. Additionally, I check out my gear very carefully before each dive (the ultimate problem was blown seals in both the 2nd stage and octopus). As mentioned earlier, you are ultimately responsible for your own safety. No matter how well trained the dive master is, if you can rescue your buddy and vise versa you will always have your own safety net with you. We also are members of DAN and faithfully read "Alert Diver" to learn what can happen, and what to do if it did.

 

Diving should be enjoyable and fun. There's no way you can anticipate the hundreds of things that can go wrong, so just prepare as best you can, then relax and enjoy the dive.