Passports not required til Summer '08...

[Iwant2cruise!]

What does "summer" mean? My family has passports...BIL and SIL do not. We are thinking of cruising together in May '08... Does anyone have any insight. Yes, we are of the camp that they should, of course, get passports, but we also know that unless they are "required" they won't.

 

Can someone define "summer" for me?

[blindrid]

If the Department of State cannot define, I certainly would not trust anyone's judgement here.....

 

SUMMER 2008

At a later date, to be determined, the departments will implement the full requirements of the land and sea phase of WHTI. The proposed rules require most U.S. citizens entering the United States at sea or land ports of entry to have either a U.S. passport; a U.S. passport card; a trusted traveler card such as NEXUS, FAST, or SENTRI; a valid Merchant Mariner Document (MMD) when traveling in conjunction with official maritime business; or a valid U.S. Military identification card when traveling on official orders.

[Sanibel*Gal]

If I were you....IMHO - I would get a passport NOW, no way would I want to be out of the country without one.

[Iwant2cruise!]

I agree SanibelGal...that's why DH and I do have our passports...and have had them for many years. But BIL and SIL....well, what can I say...that's why we have the in-laws and the out-laws in my family!

 

Blindrid...I thought as much...but I thought maybe someone might have some insight or information that I wasn't able to find.

 

Thanks all!

[Sanibel*Gal]

I agree SanibelGal...that's why DH and I do have our passports...and have had them for many years. But BIL and SIL....well, what can I say...that's why we have the in-laws and the out-laws in my family!

 

Blindrid...I thought as much...but I thought maybe someone might have some insight or information that I wasn't able to find.

 

Thanks all!

 

 

I love that....the in-laws and the out-laws - LOL!!!:D

[cruise_lover]

If I were you I would not worry about the out-laws. They are adults and know the rules. If they are willing to take a chance by not getting a passport now and risk having trouble gaining re-entry into the United States then so be it. Enjoy your vacation and worry about yourself. I would not hesitate to wave goodbye to them if they are held by port authorities because they are too lazy to get passports. BUT just in case you are nicer than I am, there is a number below you can call for more information.

 

 

 

Passport Requirements

General Passport Information

 

Traveling abroad? New passport requirements are now in effect. Get the latest information on your passport, visa, and health requirements—which can vary by travel mode—well in advance of your trip.

 

 

• Passports are now required for all U.S. citizens traveling to or from the United States via air, to or from Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, the Caribbean (with the exception of Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands), and Bermuda.
  
• Starting January 31, 2008, U.S. citizens traveling to or from the United States via land or sea ports of entry must present a government-issued photo ID, such as a driver’s license, plus proof of citizenship, such as a birth certificate.
  
• Beginning in the summer of 2008, passports will be required for all U.S. citizens traveling to or from the United States via land and sea, as well as air, regardless of destination.

United States citizens can visit the State Department’s web site http://travel.state.gov, or call the U.S. National Passport Information Center: (877) 4USA-PPT. Please allow at minimum 6–8 weeks for processing of the passport application. If you need to travel urgently and require a passport sooner, expedited processing is available.

[cherylandtk]

...but I thought maybe someone might have some insight or information that I wasn't able to find.

The quote offered above by cruise lover is a little misleading because the highlighted phrase, saying ALL, is incorrect, and the State Dept website has been updated to use the word 'most'. (Many cruiseline sites are not yet updated, however.) Even after the WHTI is fully implemented 'sometime in summer 2008', your relatives likely won't need a passport but it depends on the itinerary.

 

The regulation has an exception listed for cruises; if you are not on a one-way, but instead are on a RT cruise from a US port, then your in-laws won't need a passport. (Caveat--passports make emergencies a little less traumatic, and are still a good idea for all the reasons you noted. This message is just a clarification of the law, not an opinion).

 

Essentially, if someone could take the cruise today without a passport, then they won't need one even after the WHTI is fully implemented.

 

State Dept. :

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html

 

DHS: (see bottom of page three)

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/travel/vacation/ready_set_go/land_travel/whti_ls_faq.ctt/whti_ls_faq.pdf

 

Further discussion and clarification on CC threads:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=11366045&postcount=181

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=11832186&postcount=193

[RetireeWannabee]

Point the relatives to the gov website and let them deal with it. Book your cruise and plan to go with or without them.

 

Please don't let their stubborness harm your plans. Leave interpretation of 'summer' up to them.

[blindrid]

Agree. I do not understand why people procrastinate and then complain when the backlog reaches a few months. Then we can get the posts complaining about the state department (again).

 

I am a procrastinator by trade and I even got mine a few years ago when the first regulations went into place. I then found out how much easier it is to travel with a passport instead of messing with DL and birth certificate.

 

Just get one and get it over with. In this case, don't worry about it and plan on going by yourself (or you can call us and we'll go:) ).

[Iwant2cruise!]

Yep, only one problem with not worrying about the "outlaws." We're giving the cruise to their children (our nieces and nephews) as a Christmas gift. We've offerd to pay for the kids passports but my SILs are a trip and won't do much to help their kids...my nieces and nephews (there are 4 of them ranging in age from 15 to 7) haven't been on a vacation outside of where they live since we took them last.

 

So, I don't want to book the cruise (and get the kids excited at Christmas) to have the sabotaged by their parents.

 

Thanks everyone for the advice. Maybe I'll find someone at the State Dept. that is knowledgeable (ha!).

[CC Help Michell]

Yep, only one problem with not worrying about the "outlaws." We're giving the cruise to their children (our nieces and nephews) as a Christmas gift. We've offerd to pay for the kids passports but my SILs are a trip and won't do much to help their kids...my nieces and nephews (there are 4 of them ranging in age from 15 to 7) haven't been on a vacation outside of where they live since we took them last.

 

So, I don't want to book the cruise (and get the kids excited at Christmas) to have the sabotaged by their parents.

 

Thanks everyone for the advice. Maybe I'll find someone at the State Dept. that is knowledgeable (ha!).

 

The date when passports WILL be required for US citizens is a moving target, and the PROPOSED regulation/exception for cruise pax quoted in one of the posts above is merely that... PROPOSED. Our country has lagged the rest of the world not just by years, but by decades, in requiring passports for citizens who choose to leave the country for vacation, but want to return home afterwards. This is also subject to cruiseline policies -- at least at this time, NCL has published that effective in January, travelers outside the US on NCL will have to have passports (regardless of State Department/DHS requirements).

 

While your intent to give the great gift of travel to your nieces and nephews is laudable, I think you are letting yourself in for a lot of stress with the attitude of your SIL. I believe in your situation I'd give the nieces and nephews something else for Christmas (maybe a trip to Disneyworld or something), and relax and plan your cruise next year.

[RetireeWannabee]

...

While your intent to give the great gift of travel to your nieces and nephews is laudable, I think you are letting yourself in for a lot of stress with the attitude of your SIL. I believe in your situation I'd give the nieces and nephews something else for Christmas (maybe a trip to Disneyworld or something), and relax and plan your cruise next year.

 

YEP.

 

You are a dear to propose such a thing, but you are facing an uphill battle and possibly financial loss based on things under someone else's control.

 

I would say "let me know when the kids have their passports so I can give them a cruise" and get them something else this year. If the parents refuse to to get the passports, the kids aren't going, simple as that. Forget the State Dept, make this Your Rule. I'm certain the parents would not reimburse you for your loss since they seem unwilling to pony up for passports until they absolutely have to.

 

I really believe this is not worth the worry, stress and work On You. That's way more of a gift than I would ever give. There will still be cruises when they do finally relent and get passports for the kids.

 

Book for yourself, go, and enjoy. When you get home and gush about how wonderful it is, let the parents feel guilty for depriving the kids of your generosity.

[supernanny]

I had not checked on this for awhile and last I heard I thought that the passports would be required in Jan. '08. Evidently I am behind. The way I read that info regarding the cruise travel, it is saying you do not have to have one to cruise round trip?? We have already gotten ours so it is not an issue for us and I know it would come in handy in case someone had to fly home for one reason or another. You never know what can happen, but for those more optomistic people that do not plan ahead I guess you really don't have to have it. Correct me if I am wrong but that is how I understand it, and naturally that can change at any time.

[blindrid]

I do appreciate your intent but I'm afraid I would probably punt the idea. Obviously the parents aren't real fired up on the idea so without their help, there's nothing you can do.

 

Keep thinking good things... Randy

[cherylandtk]

I had not checked on this for awhile and last I heard I thought that the passports would be required in Jan. '08. Evidently I am behind. The way I read that info regarding the cruise travel, it is saying you do not have to have one to cruise round trip?? We have already gotten ours so it is not an issue for us and I know it would come in handy in case someone had to fly home for one reason or another. You never know what can happen, but for those more optomistic people that do not plan ahead I guess you really don't have to have it. Correct me if I am wrong but that is how I understand it, and naturally that can change at any time.

Supernanny, you've got it right.

(And even though Michell is quite correct to point out it is still just a proposed law, one must also note that the current law remains in effect until the proposed law is implemented; and they both say just a DL and BC for RT cruise passengers.)

 

As for another post or two about cruiselines requiring a passport even if the government does not: The exception was added to the first draft as a direct result of cruiseline comments and requests, so I would think it is unlikely that the cruiselines will choose to institute a higher standard than the government. To do so would drive business to their competitors, and would be a breach of duty to their stockholders. That would be too costly on both counts.

 

Of course, it remains to be seen when the cruiselines will quietly update their websites, but using their past updates as a guide, I would expect not to see any revisions of note until there is an actual implementation date. I believe one of them (Celebrity??-cannot recall at the moment) still lists a passport requirement of Jan 08 which will need to be removed when that date passes. Most of the others have changed 'required' language to 'suggested' language.

[CannotW82Cruise]

I've spent hours researching this issue after receiving conflicting (and incorrect) information from the National Passport Center and Royal Caribbean. I have finally received written confirmation that passports are not yet required for our cruise on 11/18/07, which includes 2 ports of call in Central America (Belize City and Roatan). The bottom line is that there is no current deadline for a U.S. citizen to have a passport to cruise round-trip from a U.S. port to anywhere in the Western Hemisphere (which is North, Central, and South America and all surrounding islands [except for Cuba], Bermuda, and the Caribbean). It took a lot of digging, but below are links where you can get the current requirements. Although proposed implementation of the land/sea portions of the WHTI is Summer 2008, 60 days' formal notice must be given. Congress has extended the deadline for implementation to June 2009, and there are recommendations that even once fully implemented, that an exception be made for sea-only cruisers on domestic sailings.

 

See Page 6 of:

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/toolbox/publications/travel/knowbeforeyougo.ctt/knowbeforeyougo.pdf

 

Other good info at:

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/kbyg/

 

The law - 22 CFR 53.2(b):

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=b93cd481e19a2b025292120fbdeea87d&rgn=div5&view=text&node=22:1.0.1.6.35&idno=22

 

If you don't want to incur the additional expense of obtaining an expedited passport (which I'm told can be done in 2-1/2 weeks, or in 1 day if you get an appointment and go to a passport center) and are cruising in the Summer of 2008 or beyond, either apply in the near future to avoid the backlog, or keep checking for the formal notice and official deadline and act accordingly.

 

Hope this helps! Happy sailing!

[Sundagger]

Congress has extended the deadline for implementation to June 2009' date=' and there are recommendations that even once fully implemented, that an exception be made for sea-only cruisers on domestic sailings.

 

[/quote']

 

Thanks for the research! Do you know what the status of the Congressional bill is? Has it gone to the President? There was talk of his vetoing it in the name of national security.

[Happy ks]

What does "summer" mean? My family has passports...BIL and SIL do not. We are thinking of cruising together in May '08... Does anyone have any insight. Yes, we are of the camp that they should, of course, get passports, but we also know that unless they are "required" they won't.

 

Can someone define "summer" for me?

 

The only problem with waiting until they are required is that there are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of others who are doing the same thing. If you look backwards at the debacle from January until just the last couple of months, it is not a wise decision to wait until required. It could make the difference between going on the cruise and being left at the pier...just think, their luggage could go on the cruise without them :)

 

I recently read in the local travel section an article where a representative at the passport agency was quoted as saying they are hiring and training new help as fast as they can. Yet they don't believe it will be enough with the next wave of applications they foresee in the future, they just cannot hire and train fast enough.

 

I don't know why people procrastinate about getting passports, it's really no big deal. If the cost is prohibitive get them 2 months apart, one at a time, spread the cost out.

 

I would not be surprised if we see delays even worse than what was experienced by many this year. My daughter is going on a school trip next June, about a minute after her childs passport expires. She turns 16 in January and I'm considering expediting it even that far away from the trip. It would be a shame to miss this long planned event just because we didn't take care of the passport issue in advance.

[cherylandtk]

There is a difference in waiting until an established deadline nears (what happened this last summer) and waiting for a deadline to be created in the first place (what may or may not happen sometime after 2009). The proposed WHTI law (DL and BC for RT cruises from US) will 'take the place' of what is the current practice (DL and BC for RT cruises from US). Since the document requirement does not change when this proposed law is implemented, there is no anticipation of a passport rush.

 

For the document requirements to change, the government would need to re-publish a proposal, wait for comments, revise the proposed law, re-publish any changes, provide funding, announce a date and wait 60 days. All of that for WHTI has take two years, and we still don't have an implemented law. To add back a passport requirement for cruises will take just as long.

 

Now, if you are thinking of getting a passport for general travel purposes, get it during the winter lull. There have always been more requests during the spring and summer than in the winter.

[Happy ks]

Except, the backlog this past year started in January and did not start clearing up until a couple of months ago :o

 

Make it easy on yourself, apply for a passport long before you actually need one.

[blindrid]

One thing some forget is that cruise lines may implement rules needing a passport so it's not only a fed thing it may be a line thing.... I would suggest just getting one before you actually need it.

[Terpnut]

Yep, only one problem with not worrying about the "outlaws." We're giving the cruise to their children (our nieces and nephews) as a Christmas gift. We've offerd to pay for the kids passports but my SILs are a trip and won't do much to help their kids...my nieces and nephews (there are 4 of them ranging in age from 15 to 7) haven't been on a vacation outside of where they live since we took them last.

 

So, I don't want to book the cruise (and get the kids excited at Christmas) to have the sabotaged by their parents.

 

Thanks everyone for the advice. Maybe I'll find someone at the State Dept. that is knowledgeable (ha!).

Assuming you can get at least a little cooperation from your SIL/BIL, perhaps you could facilitate getting the kids' passports as part of your vacation gift? Before Christmas, if they don't already have them, have your SIL/BIL send for birth certificates. Then during the holidays, take everyone's passport photos. Then complete the applications for them, have your BIL/SIL sign. Make an appointment and haul everyone down to their local post office or passport office, and get it done. Then treat them to a nice "we're doing on a cruise" dinner afterwards. If you're paying for the cruise already, the passport application fees and dinner cost are almost incidental. :)