Process for flying home early without a Passport?

[TPKeller]

First, I have a sibling who was cruising this spring who left her passport in the safe on their ship. They missed the ship at a port. (I am not going to say which ship or ports because that is not rel...)

That is unfortunate, but as noted, not really what this thread is asking about.

 

Also, I will ask, was the port in question in the WHTI area? The answer to that is extremely relevant, as this thread is only about returning home from that area due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

Theron

[2bFREEonTHEseas]

YES, it was within that area, and you can not fly into the states without a US passort. Those rules are for cruises (or driving -Mexico) that leave and return to US soil. You also need to remember that if your cruise gets deverted to a different port that is not with those WHTI areas, you are going to have problems. Remember that the WHTI only covers 17 regions...it is not the entire Caribbean.

 

 

Areas that fall under the WHTI:

Canada

Mexico

Bermuda

 

 

The Caribbean region (includes 17 regions)

 

• Anguilla
  
• Antigua and Barbuda
  
• Aruba
  
• Bahamas
  
• Bermuda
  
• British Virgin Islands
  
• Cayman Islands
  
• Dominica
  
• Dominican Republic
  
• Grenada
  
• Jamaica (except for business travel)
  
• Montserrat
  
• Netherlands Antilles
  
• St. Kitts and Nevis
  
• St. Lucia
  
• St. Vincent and the Grenadines
  
• Turks and Caicos
  

[Suzanne74]

Sorry to not have a first hand account of a story but at least this keeps the post up to the top until we find one...

 

Anyway, I did a poll about passports because I thought it was funny how many push the passport issues here on cruise critic and there is such a heated debate about them all the time. Obviously not a scientific poll but only 32% of the people that leave the ship for a port even have a passport in hand. That isn't many!!

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=694972

[TPKeller]

YES, it was within that area, and you can not fly into the states without a US passort. Those rules are for cruises (or driving -Mexico) that leave and return to US soil.

According to the new rules which go into effect June 1, 2009, in order to enter the US at a land border crossing, one must present a passport or one of the new passport cards (or another of several secure ID exceptions). The passport exemption that we are talking about here does not apply to land border crossings at all, it is specifically for cruise passengers.

 

To confirm that information, I took a look through the text of the final rule document, and ran across paragraph VI.F (on page 95), which states:

 

VI. F. Individual Cases of Passport Waivers

The passport requirement may be waived for U.S. citizens in certain individual situations on a case-by-case basis, such as an unforeseen emergency or cases of humanitarian or national interest. Existing individual passport waivers for nonimmigrant aliens are not changed by the final rule.

Somehow this has to be implemented into a process, which is what we are trying to find out here...

 

Theron

[Happy ks]

I still don't see that the original question was answered. The closest one came from 2bFREE... but is not the complete answer. The question is one that would deal with someone who has not bothered to get a passport and has to fly home unexpectedly from a cruise ship.

 

I can understand (to a point) why cruisers on a round trip US cruise don't need passports, they are typically only each in port one day.

 

Since 2bFREE's sibling had to pay umpteen $$ and had a passport, just not in their posession, I'm wondering if the cost would be more than that for someone without a passport????

 

I'm thinking if someone has done this, perhaps they are too embarrassed to admit it. Or, they decided not to fly home in an emergency since it would cost so much? Or, more than likely, they don't know CC exists to give us an accurate answer?

 

I even tried looking this up on the gov't site, airline sites, etc..., no absolute answer is there that I can find.

[TPKeller]

I still don't see that the original question was answered.

 

I'm thinking if someone has done this, perhaps they are too embarrassed to admit it. Or, they decided not to fly home in an emergency since it would cost so much? Or, more than likely, they don't know CC exists to give us an accurate answer?

Yep, you are right, the question has not yet been answered. I offered a few posts ago to take reports to my e-mail address, and I would post them anonymously, but no takers so far...

 

It may take a while, but I'm confident that we will eventually have an answer.

 

Theron

[2bFREEonTHEseas]

I don't think getting back into the country without a passport is the problem, I THINK GETTING ON A PLANE TO GET BACK TO THE US IS THE PROBLEM. If you can get to a port of entry without a passport, they will detain you while they verify who you are...GETTING TO THAT PORT OF ENTRY from a foreign country will be your greatest challenge. For my sister, it was not that she did not have a passport, but getting that passport in hand to get a plane was the problem.

 

KEEPING YOUR PASSPORTS LOCKED IN THE SAFE ONBOARD THE SHIP WHILE YOU ARE OFF THE SHIP IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. MY SISTER CAN TELL YOU $7200 REASONS WHY FROM A CARABBEAN ISLAND.

 

QUESTION: What happens if I don't have any document when I cross teh border at a land or sea port of entry?

 

ANSWER: You will be delayed as U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers attempt to verify your citizenship and identity.

 

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/travel/vacation/ready_set_go/sea_travel/whti_landsea_faq.ctt/whti_landsea_faq.pdf

Documents You Will Need to Enter the United States

All persons including citizens of the United States traveling by air between the U.S., Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda are required to present a passport, Merchant Mariner Document (presented by U.S. citizen merchant mariners traveling on official business) or NEXUS Card (NEXUS enrollment is limited to citizens of the United States and Canada, and lawful permanent residents of the United States and Canada). Children will be required to present their own passport

 

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/ready_set_go/air_travel/documents_needed.xml

 

 

[Willman]

I posted this question last week and no one could answer it. The only replies continue to be of the variety "you should get a passport" and "the regulations state you need a passport to fly back to the U.S." We already know this. Hopefully someone can answer the OP's question, but it has yet to happen.

[Terpnut]

I posted this question last week and no one could answer it. The only replies continue to be of the variety "you should get a passport" and "the regulations state you need a passport to fly back to the U.S." We already know this. Hopefully someone can answer the OP's question, but it has yet to happen.

The answer to Theron's original question might very well be that, if you don't have a passport or don't bring your existing passport when you need it, then you will probably have to go through the standard process of getting or replacing a passport while abroad. IOW, if you don't already have a passport and then you need it, you will then need to get your passport. :rolleyes:

[TPKeller]

The answer to Theron's original question might very well be that, if you don't have a passport or don't bring your existing passport when you need it, then you will probably have to go through the standard process of getting or replacing a passport while abroad. IOW, if you don't already have a passport and then you need it, you will then need to get your passport. :rolleyes:

It is true that we don't have an answer yet, but we do know that your scenario is also not the correct answer. See my post #54, in which I quote the rule which allows for a waiver. A "waiver" would generally mean that a passport is not required at all, not that a passport may be obtained or replaced during the time of need.

 

Theron

[Willman]

The answer to Theron's original question might very well be that, if you don't have a passport or don't bring your existing passport when you need it, then you will probably have to go through the standard process of getting or replacing a passport while abroad. IOW, if you don't already have a passport and then you need it, you will then need to get your passport. :rolleyes:

This also does not answer the question. It is strange to see this board stumped because all questions posted on this board seem to be answered quickly and often include detailed information.

[TPKeller]

This also does not answer the question. It is strange to see this board stumped because all questions posted on this board seem to be answered quickly and often include detailed information.

Maybe it's a conspiracy!!!

 

:D

 

Theron

[Terpnut]

This also does not answer the question. It is strange to see this board stumped because all questions posted on this board seem to be answered quickly and often include detailed information.

The waiver to which you refer seems highly subjective and I don't see how one can plan a trip around that. First, I'm not sure there are many stories out there because this waiver is probably not granted that often. And even if someone should finally post their individual experience in successfully returning to the US from a WHTI nation without their passport, I'm not sure what value this anectotal experience would have as it would have been very much up to the whims of a specific border control or immigration agent(s). As you already know, there are no specific documented procedures or steps--just an obscure reference to a waiver.

 

Even if these waivers were to be routinely used, I'm still confused as to how an individual can prove they are a US citizen in the first place without having their passport!? Your passport is the only authoritative and official document that can prove your US citizenship so how can you prove you are who you are to get such a waiver? Isn't this a dilemma??? Thus it seems logical to me that the only answer to your question is that one must get their passport, or AT LEAST go through the tedious and time-consuming administrative steps needed to verify one's identity and citizenship (i.e. almost go through the process of getting a passport)! My circular logic here leads me back to the same conclusion time and time again--get and carry your passport everywhere.

[TPKeller]

The waiver to which you refer seems highly subjective and I don't see how one can plan a trip around that. First, I'm not sure there are many stories out there because this waiver is probably not granted that often. And even if someone should finally post their individual experience in successfully returning to the US from a WHTI nation without their passport, I'm not sure what value this anectotal experience would have as it would have been very much up to the whims of a specific border control or immigration agent(s). As you already know, there are no specific documented procedures or steps--just an obscure reference to a waiver.

 

Even if these waivers were to be routinely used, I'm still confused as to how an individual can prove they are a US citizen in the first place without having their passport!? Your passport is the only authoritative and official document that can prove your US citizenship so how can you prove you are who you are to get such a waiver? Isn't this a dilemma??? Thus it seems logical to me that the only answer to your question is that one must get their passport, or AT LEAST go through the tedious and time-consuming administrative steps needed to verify one's identity and citizenship (i.e. almost go through the process of getting a passport)! My circular logic here leads me back to the same conclusion time and time again--get and carry your passport everywhere.

Well, remember, I am not claiming to be an expert, but as my first post states, I'm looking for information to fill an apparent hole, which is somewhat in the process of developing, as these rules are just recently imposed, and are still yet to be fully implemented.

 

To reply to your post, I would emphasize context. The context of the situation is that the government has allowed the passenger to cruise (and return!) with a photo ID and a birth certificate, which does establish citizenship.

 

I don't believe there are many stories yet, because the air travel passport requirement has not been in place very long. Prior to that rule taking effect, the photo ID / birth certificate combination was valid for air travel entry into the US just like it was for sea travel entry.

 

The passport exemption is a major part of the WHTI final rule document. They clearly define the exemption, and in chapter IV of that document, they even go into quite a lot of detail in discussing the various comments they received, explaining why they believe that the passport exemption for cruise passengers is not a threat to national security.

 

I would disagree that the waiver is obscure. It is a part of the same document that defines the exemption, so it's every bit as important and valid as the exemption itself. I would even submit that the waiver is required to exist in order to make the exemption valid. As has been pointed out ad nauseam elsewhere on these boards, if one could not return home in an emergency, then the exemption would be pointless.

 

So again, remember the context of the situation, and the limited scope for which I seek an answer. A cruise ship passenger, who has already had their US Citizenship confirmed upon boarding, for whatever personal reason (such as a death in the family back home) has need to leave the cruise early and return by air.

 

This is not something that you would ever plan, but a situation that must be accommodated.

 

The premise of my question is that there is, or there eventually will be, a process in place by which the passenger notifies the cruise line that an emergent situation has arisen, and then the cruise line officials would contact the authorities at the next port of call, and help to arrange for approval of a return home by air without a passport. The cruise line holds the manifest, and therefore, proof of citizenship. So they must be involved in the process somehow.

 

If someone who has been through this can tell us how it was done, and if it appears to have been something done with a certain amount of procedure, it is quite obvious how this benefits everyone here, who for whatever reason decides it is in their own personal best interest to cruise without the additional expense of a passport.

 

Theron

[cherylandtk]

Theron, here is to hoping that you receive a few first-hand answers; even then, we probably must concede that the case-by-case handling will be widely variable depending on the situation(s).

 

There was a case, pre-WHTI, where an ill passenger flew from somewhere in Mexico, rode to the border in a taxi, had to cross the border on foot, took an ambulance to San Diego where they boarded a medevac plane in San Diego back to their hometown.

 

Such handling was probably the most-expeditious at the time, given the available options. Won't work after June 1, 2009. Won't work now without a BC/DL, but presumably a cruise pax would have that. Perhaps not if docs were in the safe and the ship was missed like PP example, rather than an illness onboard.

 

I think with so many variables in the exact nature of any specific emergency it may be hard to determine just how and when that humanitarian waiver will be issued, and how long it takes or even what the process might be in any given country. The time urgency of a given, particular emergency would surely have some bearing on it--I would hope.

 

That said, if there is not much of a response on this thread, I would be willing to write and ask a few US WHTI embassies/consulates this question. Not sure what kind of response we might get, but if I take a couple and you take a couple, we might together glean some knowledge about the process and be able to answer that question. And as you know from the Passport Question thread, I am all about the facts vs. opinion.

Cheryl

[Terpnut]

You make several very good points and I understand (and am curious to know) the information you are seeking.

To reply to your post, I would emphasize context. The context of the situation is that the government has allowed the passenger to cruise (and return!) with a photo ID and a birth certificate, which does establish citizenship.

A state-issued, motor vehicle administration-issued photo ID and a locally-issued birth certificate don't prove your identity or citizenship. Only a valid federal government-issued passport can do this. US DHS border and immigration officials have no way to authenticate these "ad hoc" documents on-the-fly. Thus anyone using these types of documents had better hope (or should I say pray) a particular DHS employee is both lenient and sympathetic to their plight.

The cruise line holds the manifest, and therefore, proof of citizenship. So they must be involved in the process somehow.

I think there is a flaw in any reasoning that somehow, the passenger's identity and citizenship has already been "proven" upon boarding. You assume that the cruiseline's verification of your credentials is equivalent to the DHS processes, and thus the cruise line will and can help you. I don't think so. The cruise line makes a cursory effort to validate your "credentials" based on government regulations but they are primarily motivated by their own profit--not for your well-being. On boarding, the cruise lines make a good-faith effort to verify that the passenger has the proper and required identification but only a DHS employee can actually know that a passport or other supposedly official documents are real or not. The cruiseline basically doesn't want to be stuck with a bunch of illegal immigrants that can't disembark at the end of the cruise!

 

IMHO,the problem in trying to get home in the event of emergency is proving your identity and citizenship to the DHS agents at the border--very different than showing your birth certificate and driver's license to a cruise line employee who really doesn't give a hoot whether you ever get home or not. IOW, the cruise lines will do the minimum and the DHS employees should be doing the maximum.

 

While all this is being sorted out, there probably are some short-term "procedures" to help US citizens get home in the event of an emergency without a passport (as you describe). But please understand that, when and if our nation's border control processes are well-considered and well-executed, it will never be possible to enter our country without an official and authoritative identity credential, i.e. passport. I still think that, if not today very soon, it means everyone must have a passport or, if you lose it or don't have one, they'll have to go get one whereever they happen to be. I'm not trying to be argumentative or "heated", but when you think about it, it really can't work any other way because these exemptions and waivers only pose risks to our national security! :)

[buckanear]

The cruise line makes a cursory effort to validate your "credentials" based on government regulations but they are primarily motivated by their own profit--not for your well-being. ...The cruiseline basically doesn't want to be stuck with a bunch of illegal immigrants that can't disembark at the end of the cruise!

 

The ship is severely fined if there is someone who is "illegal" and/or their paperwork isn't correct, so they are very paranoid about proper documentation. We must do a pretty good job though, since it's very rare to have an issue.

But don't think the ship can help you prove citizenship.

 

I'm sure once the rules start coming into effect, there will be a procedure. I'm sure it would involve temporary passports and/or travel visas.

[Terpnut]

The ship is severely fined if there is someone who is "illegal" and/or their paperwork isn't correct, so they are very paranoid about proper documentation. We must do a pretty good job though, since it's very rare to have an issue.

But don't think the ship can help you prove citizenship.

 

I'm sure once the rules start coming into effect, there will be a procedure. I'm sure it would involve temporary passports and/or travel visas.

If a cruiseline is worried about being fined and thus is highly motivated to make sure all passenger paperwork is in order, then that is the same thing as profit-motive. We don't disagree on that point. However, you must agree that the cruise line's primary interest is NOT in whether the passenger is or is not a US citizen and can get back home in the event of an emergency. Thus everyone should be clear that a cruiseline's and a passenger's interests are not directly aligned. The burden of providing proof of citizenship is entirely on the passenger.

[buckanear]

If a cruiseline is worried about being fined and thus is highly motivated to make sure all passenger paperwork is in order, then that is the same thing as profit-motive. We don't disagree on that point. However, you must agree that the cruise line's primary interest is NOT in whether the passenger is or is not a US citizen and can get back home in the event of an emergency. Thus everyone should be clear that a cruiseline's and a passenger's interests are not directly aligned. The burden of providing proof of citizenship is entirely on the passenger.

 

I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was just providing an explanation as to why they are so diligent about paperwork. They don't want to pay the fine. Otherwise they wouldn't care

[TPKeller]

A state-issued, motor vehicle administration-issued photo ID and a locally-issued birth certificate don't prove your identity or citizenship. Only a valid federal government-issued passport can do this. US DHS border and immigration officials have no way to authenticate these "ad hoc" documents on-the-fly. Thus anyone using these types of documents had better hope (or should I say pray) a particular DHS employee is both lenient and sympathetic to their plight.

 

I think there is a flaw in any reasoning that somehow, the passenger's identity and citizenship has already been "proven" upon boarding. You assume that the cruiseline's verification of your credentials is equivalent to the DHS processes, and thus the cruise line will and can help you.

Thanks for your considerate reply... I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on some of these points. And that's fine. :)

 

I would have to point out, however, that the document of choice to prove citizenship to the Post Office or County Court clerk who accepts your passport application, is indeed a locally issued (if by "locally" you mean the individual's birth state's Department of Vital Records, or whatever it may be called) official copy of the original birth certificate. I'd even go one step further to suggest that a cruise line employee who sees possibly hundreds of these birth certificates every week may be a bit more skillful in evaluating their validity than the aforementioned clerks who might see only a few per month, or in some rural cases far fewer than that.

 

And I would also suppose that the cruise line would take issue with your thought that they don't validate citizenship. Since the WHTI rules state that only US Citizens may cruise without a passport, it seems rather incumbent upon them to make sure that you do meet the first requirement before even considering the rest.

 

I think this has been a very enlightening discussion!

 

Theron

[Terpnut]

Thanks for your considerate reply... I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on some of these points. And that's fine. :)

 

I would have to point out, however, that the document of choice to prove citizenship to the Post Office or County Court clerk who accepts your passport application, is indeed a locally issued (if by "locally" you mean the individual's birth state's Department of Vital Records, or whatever it may be called) official copy of the original birth certificate. I'd even go one step further to suggest that a cruise line employee who sees possibly hundreds of these birth certificates every week may be a bit more skillful in evaluating their validity than the aforementioned clerks who might see only a few per month, or in some rural cases far fewer than that.

 

And I would also suppose that the cruise line would take issue with your thought that they don't validate citizenship. Since the WHTI rules state that only US Citizens may cruise without a passport, it seems rather incumbent upon them to make sure that you do meet the first requirement before even considering the rest.

 

I think this has been a very enlightening discussion!

 

Theron

You are absolutely right that the initial verification of someone's identity relies on someone somewhere (as you said, typically a post office employee!) using locally-issued documents to make their assessment, and for the sake of our national security, hopefully they are paying attention and doing it right! Thus my assertion that a passport is authoritative is less about the original source for the ID verification than the fact that the passport itself is supposed to be the only official ID document. :)

 

You also make an interesting and valid point about the cruiseline employee perhaps having more experience seeing birth certificates than a post office employee. In any case, nobody (no matter how experienced) can know for sure as there is no central national repository, database or source for birth certificates or driver's licenses. Past efforts to implement a true national identification card have failed for privacy and political reasons.

 

As for your final point about the cruise lines checking citizenship, the dilemma I see is: how in the world can they make sure they know a passenger's country of citizenship if only U.S. citizens are allowed to travel with just a birth certificate and driver's license, but without a passport? I think this is an oxymoron as most cruise ship passengers are American and they aren't required to carry a passport, but yet a cruise line must verify citizenship which generally requires that you check their passport--the universally-recognized means of proving one's citizenship! I believe your point is that DHS explicitly allows for BDs and DLs to be used in lieu of passports for proof of citizenship so this is not an oxymoron. Regardless, I think that this humongous "exception" makes for an imperfect, error-filled and risky way of handling our nation's border control and national security! IMHO, the WHTI has clearly prioritized cruise line business and traveler short-term interests over border control and immigration needs. :rolleyes:

 

Anyhow, didn't mean to hijack your thread so I'll now get off my passport soapbox! Hopefully you will still get some personal experiences on this subject. This thread will now return to its regularly scheduled programming... :p

[buckanear]

You also make an interesting and valid point about the cruiseline employee perhaps having more experience seeing birth certificates than a post office employee. In any case, nobody (no matter how experienced) can know for sure as there is no central national repository, database or source for birth certificates or driver's licenses.

 

Regardless, I think that this humongous "exception" makes for an imperfect, error-filled and risky way of handling our nation's border control and national security! IMHO, the WHTI has clearly prioritized cruise line business and traveler short-term interests over border control and immigration needs. :rolleyes:

 

Anyhow, didn't mean to hijack your thread so I'll now get off my passport soapbox! Hopefully you will still get some personal experiences on this subject. This thread will now return to its regularly scheduled programming... :p

 

We are trained to look for certain things (a raised seal and the location of the origin of the document such as the county vital statistics office etc.) and we're pretty good at catching improper birth certificates. But like I say to people who ask if we're gov't agents, "We've had 30 minutes of specialized training using pictures of simulated documents". That's an exaggeration of course, but demonstrates that we aren't CBP.

 

I agree with thinking this BC exception puts us at a much higher risk. It's a bad idea.

 

Now we can get back to the regularly scheduled thread :P I'm done :D

[TPKeller]

We are trained to look for certain things (a raised seal and the location of the origin of the document such as the county vital statistics office etc.) and we're pretty good at catching improper birth certificates. But like I say to people who ask if we're gov't agents, "We've had 30 minutes of specialized training using pictures of simulated documents". That's an exaggeration of course, but demonstrates that we aren't CBP.

 

I agree with thinking this BC exception puts us at a much higher risk. It's a bad idea.

 

Now we can get back to the regularly scheduled thread :P I'm done :D

It's good to have you participating here on Cruise Critic! Folks like you and Signman (he works in Baltimore) provide a lot of insight!

 

I was just reading through your post and it occurred to me that it must really stink to have to tell someone that their documents aren't acceptable and they aren't going to be getting on the ship that day... Ugh, what terrible news to have to deliver...

 

Theron

[buckanear]

It's good to have you participating here on Cruise Critic! Folks like you and Signman (he works in Baltimore) provide a lot of insight!

 

I was just reading through your post and it occurred to me that it must really stink to have to tell someone that their documents aren't acceptable and they aren't going to be getting on the ship that day... Ugh, what terrible news to have to deliver...

 

Theron

 

Thank you Theron. I just try and give my perspective as both a cruise lover and an agent.

It's the worst to have to tell someone their documents aren't in line. It's kind of nervewracking for us because the people never take it nicely. We've had cases where security had to be called. My DH had someone who flipped out at him because of a visa issue last week. I'm not kidding when I tell you that at least once a week, someone tries to board using a photocopied birth certificate. I really wish, for everyone's sake, that they would make passports required for travel on cruises to avoid issues with having to fly home. I think it will eventually happen when people get fed up with it.

[Moeve]

Theron and others - border entry point in the US is probably not you major worry - the bigger problem is that this passport requirement for flights put the airline transporting you in the frontline.

 

First of all the (very hefty) fine for transporting persons with out the correct ID. They have no control over what the Immigrations officer could decide on the US end - so the only way to covered their backs would be to insist on the correct ID - which would mean you would have to have a passport issued on the island before you could get on a plane - period! Now this opens another problem since not all islands have US Embassies.......It is going to put you through a whole lot of circles.

 

I would think the US border controls would perhaps hold you for a while and maybe have someone ID you by some method or other.

 

I see the biggest problem being the airlines who have a lot to loose including their landing rights - which is no small thing.