Can someone explain the theory of cruise ship tipping?

[ssantow]

To me, the cruise line seems to be saying, "We refuse to pay our employees decently, therefore we are making YOU responsible for keeping their families from starving. You should pay them for us regardless of any service actually provided."

 

This is the way it has always been. You are paying the wait staff for the cruise line.

It used to be much worse than it is today. Waiters used to get all their tips in cash from the passengers and were required to "pay" the head waiters to get the good tables and access to the better table service. It was trult extortion that went all way to the top.

If you want to really have your eyes opened you may want to get a copy of the book "Devils on the Deep Blue Sea". It is facinating reading about the cruise industry from the start to the present.

[Morgsmom]

If you want to really have your eyes opened you may want to get a copy of the book "Devils on the Deep Blue Sea". It is facinating reading about the cruise industry from the start to the present.

 

 

There's another book that I have read that is very eye-opening: Cruise Ship Blues: the Underside of the Cruise Industry. Fascinating stuff!

[MINIMAD]

This is what we "down under" can't understand.

 

PAY A DECENT WAGE TO ALL EMPLOYEES and we all win in the end.

The minimum legal wage in NZ is $12.00 per hour.

You pay for a cruise supposedly all up price including meals etc( with the exception of excusions and what ever) then are charged a daily gratuity.

 

When in the USA/Canada last year for the first time we used to get soooo !confused with the tipping and were always concious of trying not to offend. I am sure we ended up paying more than we should have.

[smeyer418]

This is what we "down under" can't understand.

 

PAY A DECENT WAGE TO ALL EMPLOYEES and we all win in the end.

The minimum legal wage in NZ is $12.00 per hour.

You pay for a cruise supposedly all up price including meals etc( with the exception of excusions and what ever) then are charged a daily gratuity.

 

When in the USA/Canada last year for the first time we used to get soooo !confused with the tipping and were always concious of trying not to offend. I am sure we ended up paying more than we should have.

I absolutely promise you that when I am in NZ I won't tip. But that really isn't the point. the $12 employee pay is part of the money you pay for the product. For cruise lines the full salary is not paid into the cruise fare. You are expected to pay a portion of the salary. Sure it can change but if it does then you will pay more(and more than the cost of passing through the increased salary)...Some cruise lines have started adding mandatory service charges just like some resorts, in the end its the same thing at least on the cruise lines they give you guidance of how much to pay,... I agree its much harder on land but in all my travels throughout Europe, Asia, and Africa tipping is the rule and it being included is the rare exception. NZ and Aus are exceptions and as I said I promise not to tip if I ever get there...

 

Japan is an exception but there are relatively few other places...

 

It is neither right nor wrong its just different.

[Philip217]

Minimad,

 

You make the same tired argument that many have made forever:

---Pay them a decent wage and we all win---

 

Do you really think that ALL the mainstream cruise line CEOs are so dumb as to overlook this scheme if it could possibly be true?

 

Aside from the drama about incentives and psychology, there are some basic straightforward and logical issues that prevent the current situation from changing anytime soon:

 

1. Earnings and contracts for nearly all cruise ship employees have been painstakingly negotiated with dozens of international maritime unions. Re-negotiating them would take years, possibly decades.

 

2. If the tips/salary were to be included in the fare, several problems arise.

 

If it is part of the commissionable fare, the travel agent gets a cut,

reducing the salary and forcing the cruise lines to charge you even more.

 

If it is not to be part of the commissionable fare, trade organisations from

many different governments would need to approve it. That could take

many years - or forever.

 

If the salary is part of your fare, you and the cruise line are required to

pay sales taxes on that extra amount. It may not seem like much to you,

but it would amount to millions in extra costs for the cruise line. They

would need to charge you more.

 

If one cruise line decides to try this, their basic fares would appear to be

far more expensive than their competitors. No cruise line would take the

chance of bankruptcy to test this idea. It would only work if all cruise

lines agreed to change to this program at the same time. In many

countries - like the USA - this sort of thing is considered price-fixing and

is illegal. No cruise line president is willing to risk fines or prison to try this

out.

 

3. If the tips/salary are included in the fare, it is trackable and taxable in many countries. Currently, many tipped employees on ships pay little or no tax on their earnings. This is one of the factors that allows the employees to be able to afford to work on a cruise ship. If they are forced to pay taxes on their incomes, they will either leave (resulting in staff shortages and too many new inexperienced staff on ships), or they will demand higher salaries to cover the new tax burden. The cruise lines will then charge you even more to compensate.

 

Everybody wins ????? I don't think so.

[silverfoxcruiser]

Philip217

thanks that was a great post.

 

Its also too bad that this was caused by the el cheapos in the world. Frankly most of the time when you see can I opt out its someone looking to see how they can avoid tipping ---not always but most of the time and when you call them on it and they protest its not me....it mostly is.....

I totally agree w/Philipand smeyer -- and I also believe that if you can't afford to tip, you really can't afford the cruise (or dinner, or hair services, etc.) It's really sad when people "cut their expenses' by failing to follow the system, whether you agree with it or not!! Silver

[cruiselover57]

Let me just start by saying that I've always tipped at least the recommended amount (6 cruises), and on land, I'm relatively generous in tipping in restaurants, etc. However, as I was reading the RCCL "guidelines" on expected tipping for a cruise we're about to embark on, it made me wonder:

 

1) Why should I tip a head waiter at all? As far as I can tell, he does nothing for me except to stop by the table once an evening (at best) and ask, "Is everything all right?" I don't see what value accrues to me from that. Or, if he only stops by 2 or 3 times in the week, should I pro-rate the tip (just kidding)?

 

2) Next, on our last cruise, our waiter was invariably too busy with another table to deal with ours, and we were served almost exclusively by our Assistant Waiter. I didn't mind at all, as the AW was wonderful, both in personality and service. However, in a situation like that, why should I tip the waiter substantially more than the AW?

 

3) I also saw it stated that even if I eat most of my meals in alternative dining facilities, I should still tip the standard amount to all the main dining staff. To me, the cruise line seems to be saying, "We refuse to pay our employees decently, therefore we are making YOU responsible for keeping their families from starving. You should pay them for us regardless of any service actually provided." On land, I don't tip waiters whose services I don't use; why are ships diffeent?

 

I know this sounds a little stingy. Trust me, I'm anything but stingy. I love to reward superior service generously; it just seems like there's a disconnect between service and tips. But am I totally off base on the above points?

 

I can truly understand your concerns. The info one receives from the cruise line is the "suggested" amount and in no way should be looked upon as being cheap - We always use it as a guideline and tip maybe 5-10% more for outstanding service. I like the idea of putting tips on my account so that way, I earn double points on my credit card from the cruise line, plus I don't have to worry about waiting in line at the Reception Desk to get additional cash. We've talked to many staff aboard and they say they get the full amounts put in the envelopes (now maybe that's true for some but not for all?). I'm not sure - just stating what some have told me. I've often wondered about the head waiter too - Am I supposed to tip him because he comes by every evening and says "good evening?" Nope - don't think so - He'll only get a tip from me IF I request something special. Although on some occasions, when one elects to pay their tips using their shipboard account, it's pretty much a set amount so for the minimal amount they get, I can live with that (I think on Celebrity, they recommend 75 cents a day per person).

 

Laurie

[AR_Magnolia]

First, I've only been on one cruise thus far, but I plan to go back as soon as I can :)

 

When you have auto-tipping, is it all pooled and disbursed later? For example, if I am happy with my waiter and increase the tip for him, does he or she know it, and know who it came from? It doesn't really matter, but I'm curious.

[CruisenLexie]

First, I've only been on one cruise thus far, but I plan to go back as soon as I can :)

 

When you have auto-tipping, is it all pooled and disbursed later? For example, if I am happy with my waiter and increase the tip for him, does he or she know it, and know who it came from? It doesn't really matter, but I'm curious.

 

If I am tipping extra I always add cash with my pre-paid slip in the envelope so they know when they receive extra from me. If you increase your pre-paid figure I don't know if that prints on the slip or not. It also sounds like whatever a person receives above and beyond the "suggested" tip is theirs to keep. If they have to turn it all in at first they will get the extra money back, in addition to whatever they receive back from the "suggested" tip.

 

Hope you are on cruise #2 in the near future :D

[CowPrincess]

For AR_Magnolia -- We did our extra tipping in cash. Because we wanted to be sure our waiter, asst waiter and cabin steward knew the cash we gave them was in addition to the auto-tips, we included a little note saying something about "This is a little extra 'thank you' for you in addition to our auto-tips".

[RocksGal]

1) One of the responsibilities of the head waiter is to help train and administer the waiters in his/her group. I'll agree that it is upsetting if you never see the head waiter, but there is work being done in between dining times.

 

3) I've never heard a definitive version on tipping and how it is split ... I'm sure it varies from line to line and information gotten from crew members is probably a little biased. However, I always figure that some of my dining room tip money is going to the people at the buffet, etc, because I doubt they have a salaried position.

 

I noticed on our last Princess cruise that our night time waiters were often in the Lido Deck during Breakfast & Lunch. I think that is why you should tip your waiter & assisstant waiter. Even if you use the alternative dining, the wait staff is often the same people. I think they rotate during the day as to what venues they work. It is not like you waiter & asst waiter only work the 5-6 hours at dinner. If everyone tips their waiters even if they eat at the Lido deck or whatever, you are still tipping for overall service in any of the venues.

[RetireeWannabee]

I noticed on our last Princess cruise that our night time waiters were often in the Lido Deck during Breakfast & Lunch. I think that is why you should tip your waiter & assisstant waiter. Even if you use the alternative dining, the wait staff is often the same people. I think they rotate during the day as to what venues they work. It is not like you waiter & asst waiter only work the 5-6 hours at dinner. If everyone tips their waiters even if they eat at the Lido deck or whatever, you are still tipping for overall service in any of the venues.

Yeah, I figure it all works out in the end if I follow the guidelines.