No Refund of deposit re Non Smoking

[Gerrym]

GerryM:

 

It is entirely a matter for:

 

a). The respondee, to post what he or she sees fit to post.

 

b). It is entirely up the originator of the thread and anyone interested in any answer to questions or viewpoints requested to "take or leave" what other respondees have to say.

 

 

a) But the respondee here (you!) is not thick, just trying to stir up a little bit of trouble perhaps?

 

b) So you are of the opinion that a response to a question does not even need a connection to that question?

[The Monocled Mutineer]

Contrbutors to this (and other sites) should post what they wish, including incorrect answers they think are right, opinion, and if they wish to go off on a related OR unrelated tangent, they should be able to do so without being upbraided.

 

Only bullying and abuse should not be tolerated

[The Monocled Mutineer]

Cruisebore:

 

The subject was about smoking constraints and insurance. Like others on this and other sites I choose to reply with the content I wrote.

 

Readers can "take or leave it".

[maxx470]

We were booked on Ventura for the end of Jan 09.

We contacted P&O who send an immediate refund of the deposit back to us.

 

Those who honestly believe that the ban will make a ship safer must be blinkered !. Your going to get people having a crafty out of sight fag and throwing the butt in the sea, thus causing fires. I can't believe the lines haven't thought about this flaw in policy.

[Barbarella]

Have to agree with you Max. Smoking on a balcony is no different than walking past somebody having a smoke on a street cafe - it is evaported into the air.

 

The anti-smoking brigade just like to make so much fuss about it. As people who know me from other boards (Leighton) I myself am a non smoker but do have some humanity about me that we all have our addictions in some way or other and to expect people to give theirs up on their hard earned vacation is very extreme to me.

 

If people smoke at home they should be able to do the same on their vacation and on a balcony is far better than in the cabin so whatever the policy is, I think smoking on the balcony should still be allowed and as you rightly say this will stop people having a crafty one illegally.

 

Of course, it will also mean the selling of balcony cabins may well sell even faster as most of the smoking fraternity will require one.

 

Put it this way, I would prefer a smoker next to me when I am on my balcony rather than somebody polluting the pleasant environment with loud music or even worse constantly talking on their mobile phone - that is just so bl+++dy irritating!

 

and yes it will not make cruising any safer whatsoever.

 

Regards,

Babs

[rcacace]

Have to agree with you Max. Smoking on a balcony is no different than walking past somebody having a smoke on a street cafe - it is evaported into the air.

 

 

 

 

Put it this way, I would prefer a smoker next to me when I am on my balcony rather than somebody polluting the pleasant environment with loud music or even worse constantly talking on their mobile phone - that is just so bl+++dy irritating!

 

and yes it will not make cruising any safer whatsoever.

 

Regards,

Babs

 

How can you possibly think that it "evaporates" so quickly if at all before it annoys many people downwind?

 

We all know that open speakers aren't allowed on the ship & no one can possibly afford to talk forever on a cell phone at the rates they charge.

 

Poor examples.

[Pontius Navigator]

Oriana, Arcadia and Aurora still allow smoking in cabins but only until 2009

 

In the interests of accuracy,

 

just returned on Aurora. There is NO SMOKING in cabins or dining areas. Smoking is permitted on the port side of the promenade deck, Crystal Bar and Sun decks and on any balcony.

[Pontius Navigator]

Have to agree with you Max. Smoking on a balcony is no different than walking past somebody having a smoke on a street cafe - it is evaported into the air.

 

Again, in the interests of accuracy, the smoke did not evaporate into clean air on Aurora.

 

The smoke from the balcony adjacent to our balcony swept into our balcony and into our cabin. We had to retire inside and shut the door while our neighbour was smoking.

 

That curtailed our enjoyment of our balcony - we did not complain to the smoker who was obeying the rules. We have however complained to P&O to consider banning or at least limiting balconies where smokers can smoke.

[rcacace]

Again, in the interests of accuracy, the smoke did not evaporate into clean air on Aurora.

 

The smoke from the balcony adjacent to our balcony swept into our balcony and into our cabin. We had to retire inside and shut the door while our neighbour was smoking.

 

That curtailed our enjoyment of our balcony - we did not complain to the smoker who was obeying the rules. We have however complained to P&O to consider banning or at least limiting balconies where smokers can smoke.

 

This isn't meant to be sarcastic but only a smoker or some one who lives with one wouldn't be bothered by someone else's smoke on a balcony.

[LibraLass41]

I agree

 

As a non smoking couple who have a balcony cabin on our cruise, I am now dreading being surrounded by smokers on our next 3 cruises...

 

The inside/outside non smokers will be very happy with these new rules no doubt, as they benefit from smoke free cabins - but balcony non-smokers cruise enjoyment will no be much less.

Smoke DOES waft into neighbouring balconies!!

[maxx470]

It appears you have cruised a lot LibraLass41 !

 

I can only assume you must NOT have enjoyed these cruises since there would have been no smoking bans in place for the majority of them ?.

[rcacace]

I agree

 

As a non smoking couple who have a balcony cabin on our cruise, I am now dreading being surrounded by smokers on our next 3 cruises...

 

The inside/outside non smokers will be very happy with these new rules no doubt, as they benefit from smoke free cabins - but balcony non-smokers cruise enjoyment will no be much less.

Smoke DOES waft into neighbouring balconies!!

 

We once had the foremost balcony cabin on the Caribbean Princess which worked out quite well as far as smoke problems but it did mean lots of walking. I don't know why they can't try I locate the smokers towards the rear cabins. At least it would cut down on some of the problems.

[Pontius Navigator]

I can only assume you must NOT have enjoyed these cruises since there would have been no smoking bans in place for the majority of them ?.

 

Maxx, to some extent I am sure that that is true.

 

On Arcadia there was a number of no-go areas. One was the pub en-route to the theatre, IIRC. Other bars with a heavy smokers presence were also no-go. With the increase in no-smoking areas we are getting to enjoy more of the ship that we paid for.

 

I know that the original Q regarded a change of conditions post-booking. Now imagine for one moment the rules changed the other way an the restaurants all became free-smoking. I for one would certainly cancel.

[LibraLass41]

Max

The NEW smoking rules we are discussing on this thread are NO SMOKING in cabins which is a new rule....which will affect my future cruises thus a lot of smokers will now be booking balconies - more than ever before, so they can have a fag out on their balcony instead of walking through the ship from their inside/outside cabin to a open deck for a puff...

Therefore I will be surrounded by more smokers than ever before....This didn't happen on my previous cruises did it, as this is a NEW rule?

 

Thats my comment,and I'm entitled to state it, paying £500pp more for a balcony cabin than a inside....and thats what I said in my previous post....insides cruise experience has got better for the non-smoker, balconies cruise experience has got worse - for the non-smoker...

 

So both non-smokers and smokers are affected by these new rules!

[LibraLass41]

Also

Have you any idea how horrible it is for non-smokers to have a cabin which has been occupied by previous cruisers who smoked??

The curtains smell, the bed smells everything - even the cushions smell of an old ashray.... it is not nice when you are a non-smoker!

[Pontius Navigator]

smell of an old ashray.... it is not nice when you are a non-smoker!

 

Oddly our cabin still had an ash tray on the table and a wall-mounted one in the toilet :(

[Lushpuppy]

Tony,

 

We conducted most of our correspondence via our TA (Thomas Cook). I believe it went up as far as the Celebrity UK Customer Sevices Manager. The main issue was that I contested that it was a "material change to the original terms of the contract" and that the ban would "seriously detract from my enjoyment of the cruise". My solicitor dug out a piece of case law (can't remember the parties names) where a customer had specifically booked a smoking room at a UK hotel chain, on arrival the client was told that there were no "smoking rooms" left. He therefore said he would cancel the booking and move to the hotel across the road which had smoking rooms. The original chain charged his CC for the booking and refused a refund.

 

Bottom line was that a court ruled that the hotel had breached the terms of the original contract and therefore ordered a refund plus costs. Many would argue that this wasn't a "substantial change" to the contract but it appears that UK law still works on the basis of "offer & acceptance" ie. if something is offered (goods or service or facility) and subsequently withdrawn or materially altered, it's a breach of contract.

 

I suspect that my threat of issuing a claim against them did the trick irrespective of the legal issues. Most large companies aren't prepared to go to court and get the attendant bad publicity for the sake of a couple of hundred pounds.

 

Hope this has been of help.

We tried unsuccessfully 2 get our deposits back from celebrity and transferred 2 royal caribbean but they tried even then 2 charge us admin fee! We got that waived but lost all deposits on a second cruise booked . In the end we now have one royal cruise booked and down 400 pounds in deposits for the other. We asked would they put it as on board credit 4 us - no chance! We are sickened! Having read this i might now take this battle on. Thank you and well done you! I dont no that p and o cruisers will have same results as the ban is not as total as celebrities. At least they left smoking on balconies allowed. I right now am upset for my mother in law as she is currently on ventura and i know she was not aware of smoking restrictions she sure wont be happy! My argument always will be not for smoking or not but for being up front in brochures at time of deposit. In the states u can cancel for any reason without penalty. Its only in the uk deposits are non refundable!

[feebee_71]

The main change to policy being introduced following the letter from P&O is the withdrawl of an inside public venue allowing smoking.

 

Currently this is only on 3 ships in the fleet -

Artemis (from 30th October 2008)

Oceana (from 4th October) and

Ventura (from 10th October).

 

There is no clear reason from P&O why the other 3 ships aren't included in the policy but it can't be co-incidental that the three not yet included will be off on world cruises/voyages in January and P&O have said the policy will once again be reviewed in 2009!!

 

Smoking inside cabins has been inplace since early this year on Oceana and Ventura and is being rolled out across the fleet over the couse of a few months (on Artemis in May it was still allowed).

 

I am a non-smoker but I do feel the new policy is harsh on smokers and P&O have recognised this and have agreed to refund deposits on affected ships to those passengers who feel this is a major change to their holiday.

 

Feebee_71

[The Monocled Mutineer]

There's been enough pandering to the smoking brigade. They should either put-up, or better still, give-up.

[jimjams]

There's been enough pandering to the smoking brigade. They should either put-up, or better still, give-up.

I’m with you Derek , non-smokers should not be have to breath in second hand smoke against their will!

I read somewhere that ships travelling in British waters face a complete smoking ban in 2009 as P&O cuts back on lighting.

[cruisebore]

There's been enough pandering to the smoking brigade. They should either put-up, or better still, give-up.

 

I am lead to believe the highest result of education is tolerance, obviously others don't share that view.

 

Cb

[AnnieC]

There's been enough pandering to the smoking brigade. They should either put-up, or better still, give-up.

 

Don't you just love reasoned debate?;)

 

Annie

[Cabinboy1943]

There's been enough pandering to the smoking brigade. They should either put-up, or better still, give-up.

 

It is absolute nonsense to say there has been too much pandering to smokers when you consider that three P&O ships now have no inside venue for them and the others just one. Polls and posts have proved that the majority of non smokers are reasonable people with a sense of fair play and think that far too much notice has been taken of the tiny minority of anti smoking zealots who are so vociferous they give you a headache. Who are they to tell people what to do, telling them to give up. I assume it does not even enter their narrow minded thinking that people enjoy smoking and have no wish to give up. All they do wish for is a bit of fair play and a smoking bar is not too much to ask for. It is high time we heard a lot less from these zealots whose volume is far in excess of their number with their self righteous attitude and their conviction that they are right and everyone else is wrong.Their pompous and patronizing attitudes are boring to say the least and add nothing to sensible debate.

 

regards

 

cabinboy

[cruisebore]

Annie/ Cabinboy

Perhaps we should stop feeding the Troll, AKA the Monocled bigot.

This is one narrow mind no one will change.

 

Cb

[The Monocled Mutineer]

Cruisebore:

 

Your use of the term "bigot" towards me is abusive and is not in keeping with the spirit of sites such as these.

 

The bigots are those who want to hold on to their disgusting and unhealthy habit regardless of the well-being of the majority.

 

They are a dying breed, literally.