school and cruising

[CanadianTwosome]

The debate goes on... and on... and on...

I think our daughter has missed school for every vacation we've been able to take with her. Sometimes it was a day, sometimes longer. Last year my husband and I were actually both able to get a whole week off right at the end of August and I thought I'd finally done it... but it turned out I was looking at the wrong school calendar so she still ended up missing the first day of school. :p Last year for our 8 day cruise in January, she missed 8 school days of grade 4. She'll be missing 7 school days of grade 5 in January 2009.

We do not take missing school lightly, but it's the only time of the year when both my husband and I can get the time off, so that's when we go. I don't mind a bit that it happens to fall on my birthday! :) People make such a big deal out of the fact that the school year includes breaks - but I don't recall anyone from any school board checking MY schedule before they set any of the dates, so I'm not terribly surprised that the three of us don't have perfectly aligned calendars. Will we do it again next year? I can't answer that right now. I haven't seen my daughter's performance at her current academic level yet. So far, grade 5 appears to be somewhat unchallenging for her, so we'll see. She knows that if her grades fall for any reason, or if any academic issues arise, she will not be allowed to miss classes to travel.

When deciding whether or not a child should be allowed to miss school for travel, there are many things to consider. First of all, if you're in the US, you have to find out if they even can miss school... a week of travel, educational or not, is not worth being held back a year if that's your school district's policy. Your child's academic performance and experience must also be considered. Are they doing well? How hard do they have to work to get the marks they do? How much time do they have to put in outside of class time to maintain their grades? What kind of workload do they have and will they have to take work along on the trip? If they do, will they do it? Are you willing to take time out of your vacation to ensure they do and help them if necessary? Are they capable of catching up on anything they miss?

I think there are more questions to ask, depending on your situation, but that's a start. For us, so far we've been able to answer all of those questions and feel confident taking our child out of school. When we start thinking about next year, we'll ask them again before we book anything... and again before we hit the cancellation date (it will come up in October for our January trip). Something that also works in our favour is that both of us are individually qualified to home school our daughter if we chose to do so. We both have experience with teaching, lecturing, and tutoring as well, so we have no expectations of any of our daughter's teachers spending any extra time to help her catch up. We consider that our responsibility and are fully prepared to spend whatever time we need to ensure that she is up to speed.

Sorry to be so long winded, but I just don't think there's a simple answer to the question. :)

[CruzzBee]

I am a new mother, but I've been taking my young sister to vacations (16 years my junior) since I started working. To save money & avoid summer crowd, I usually cruise with her on the first week of September. The price of the cruise is always much cheaper starting the week of Labor day, and my sister would only miss a few days of the new school year which are mostly 1/2 days or subject reviews. However, I did not do that this summer and will not do it next year. The reason....she is now a junior in HS and she needs to work on her SATs. I did book a Disney cruise for December next year when she will be a senior. My husband really disagree with me on this, but I don't think she will miss much as a senior.

Will I do the same to my child?? I am not sure. Depends how she does in school. If she has a difficult time catching up the school work, why should I take her out from school for a vacation?? If she is good in school and able to follow the work, I don't see anything wrong with taking the advantage of the low season.

[gennadi]

I am a mother of two boys, 11 & 12 yrs. old. They are both good students and I decided to take them on a cruise last year (their first). It was a 14 day Med cruise. They would miss 10 school days, but I spoke with their teachers and they kindly gave us the lesson plans for those days. The boys did their homework in the ship's library and when we returned, they were both ahead of their classmates.

But more importantly, the trip in itself was educational. The cruise visited ancient cities. We visited the Parthenon in Athens, the Pyramids in Egypt, the Colisseum in Rome, and so much more. Their history books came to life!

They met people from different cultures that spoke different languages, etc, etc. They used foreign currency. They had the opportunity to truly expand their vision of the world.

And as a family, we created priceless memories. We are booked on another cruise this fall. Again, they will miss 7 school days. Again, we will create memories!

[Coll101]

This will be the first time we are pullling our kids out of school for a cruise. (they are 7th, 6th & 2nd grade).They will be missing 7 days of school, but when we come back, Christmas break starts (we are cruising Dec.11-21st).
The school has a website that we can access online to check grades and homework & classwork assignments. I already told all the teachers that the kids will be on vacation that week & w/ internet access, they will not fall behind in the classes:)
I know many people won't agree w/ pulling the kids out, but, we do what's best for our family:)

[Miss Jolly]

[quote name='gennadi']I am a mother of two boys, 11 & 12 yrs. old. They are both good students and I decided to take them on a cruise last year (their first). It was a 14 day Med cruise. They would miss 10 school days, but I spoke with their teachers and they kindly gave us the lesson plans for those days. The boys did their homework in the ship's library and when we returned, they were both ahead of their classmates.

But more importantly, the trip in itself was educational. The cruise visited ancient cities. We visited the Parthenon in Athens, the Pyramids in Egypt, the Colisseum in Rome, and so much more. Their history books came to life!

They met people from different cultures that spoke different languages, etc, etc. They used foreign currency. They had the opportunity to truly expand their vision of the world.

And as a family, we created priceless memories. We are booked on another cruise this fall. Again, they will miss 7 school days. Again, we will create memories![/quote]
Gennadi - you have summed it up completely. Many cruises are fully educational in their itineraries and family memories are precious. It has taken me some time to have the gumtion to write about our experiences on this thread for fear of the reaction it may lead to.
I am a teacher and have changed my philosphy on life after a serious health scare with my son. We were fortunate and he is well now but it made us rethink our values. Now don't get me wrong, I still believe wholeheartedly in education and take it [B]very[/B] seriously. However, after our health scare we decided to look at what it was we always wanted to do and it was to take our children to Europe. It is so far from Australia that to get the most out of it we decided to do three back to backs and cover as much as possible. Our Australian school holidays do not match the cruising program so that meant pulling them out of school. Get ready for it .....they missed almost 2 months of school in Year 8 and Year 9. However, I feel that they both [B][I][U]experienced [/U][/I][/B]far more education than they would have sitting behind their school desks. They worked hard in the school holidays before and after our cruise to catch up on missed school work. I feel that both of my teens learned so much about history, geography, culture, independence and general life skills that we do not regret it at all. We made our decision quickly after the health scare because we felt that we could not take them out of school in their senior years but for Year 8 and 9 I feel it was an appropriate decision. They were old enough to fully understand and remember all that they saw and experienced.
In fact, the experience and other factors have lead us to totally change our thoughts on education.I taught for a long time in one of Sydney's most traditional Private Schools but I am now home schooling both teens. This gives them the opportunity to consolidate their learning time and still experience life. Their workload at school had become so demanding that social and sporting activities were being pushed aside in order to complete assignments and study for exams. Now they have their set learning times and cover so much more work than they did at school. They are then free to participate in sporting and leisure activities with peers. They will work at a part time rate through traditional school holiday breaks which will enable them to travel with us for another two months next year - this time through Asia and up to Alaska and Whitehorse with time in Hawaii on the way home.

[B][I][/I][/B]

[Lyndasline@aol.com]

[quote name='cruisePRN'][B]I disapprove of taking kids out of school for vacations. That's why they have so many breaks during the year. Why couldn't you go during one of those breaks or summer vacation?[/B][/quote]

The prices are so much lower during the "non-peak" time. I say... kids can make up the work... but memories last forever! (Coming from teacher turned stay-at-home mom:))

[BGinGA]

Ah, this is an argument my SIL and I have pretty often. I can answer this from 2 perspectives - as a former teacher and as a person who was taken out of school at least 1 week each year to travel. As a teacher, I never held it against a student that missed school due to travelling. I thought they were probably getting so much more from experiencing a new place and people than from sitting in my classroom for a week. I would, however, insist that they ask beforehand for assignments to work on while they were away. While I was in school, my parents could not afford to take the whole clan away during the most expensive times to travel (during breaks and summer) so they took us out for at least one week each year in the fall and/or spring. While I still can't remember some of my teachers names or what the heck I learned until college, I remember every single one of those trips. I learned so much about the world and bonded with my family. I plan on doing the same with my own children when they are in school.

[CanadianTwosome]

[quote name='BGinGA']Ah, this is an argument my SIL and I have pretty often. I can answer this from 2 perspectives - as a former teacher and as a person who was taken out of school at least 1 week each year to travel. As a teacher, I never held it against a student that missed school due to travelling. I thought they were probably getting so much more from experiencing a new place and people than from sitting in my classroom for a week. I would, however, insist that they ask beforehand for assignments to work on while they were away. While I was in school, my parents could not afford to take the whole clan away during the most expensive times to travel (during breaks and summer) so they took us out for at least one week each year in the fall and/or spring. [COLOR=red]While I still can't remember some of my teachers names or what the heck I learned until college, I remember every single one of those trips. I learned so much about the world and bonded with my family.[/COLOR] I plan on doing the same with my own children when they are in school.[/quote]

I think this is REALLY important. I also remember every trip I took as a child while remembering the names of only the best teachers that I really learned from - and when I say 'really learned' I'm not talking just about academics. Life and success are about much much more than academics, and travel gives a child life experiences that they cannot get anywhere else.

Whenever a discussion like this pops up, there are references to travel as a 'learning experience'. Some believe that the learning experience comes from visiting specific, historically significant places; some believe that no matter where you go, it's just a fun holiday and trying to pass it off as 'educational' is just an excuse. I personally believe, based on my own childhood experiences, that ALL travel is educational. I learned some of the most important lessons in my life by seeing the world and the people in it. My mother took every opportunity to point out differences in culture and opportunity that, as well as educating me about the world, helped me to understand how incredibly fortunate I was to be Canadian. In Nassau, at the age of 12, she made sure that I realized that the boy I had just bought a hat from (a hideous purple plastic crocheted monstrosity, but I loved it!:p ) looked about the same age as me... and that I was there on a holiday and he was there, standing in the hot sun all day, working. I actually didn't quite get it right at that moment, but it hit me soon enough after to really make an impact on how I saw my world from then on. I never would have learned that gratitude and humility in school. It wasn't the only life lesson I learned on that trip, but I think it was the most significant one. :)

[travelloverontario]

Well...we take our kids out for days and even weeks at a time. A few years ago, my sons, grades 6 and 8, along with daughter grade 2 went to Florida. We took them out for 3 weeks. It took my grade 8 son about 1 day to catch up, and there was really nothing for my grade 6. Both of them did have to do a report however about their adventures.

Two years ago...took daughters, grades 6 and 1 out for 2 and a half weeks...again, a report and a bit of catch up work. Last year, girls were in grades 7 and 2...same scenario...out for almost 3 weeks. They both still got Honor roll for the year each time. I guess we were lucky with the girls.

This year, we will pull them again, but only for 6 school days...I am not worried about the girls...grades 8 and 3, but will be concerned about my son in grade 12. I do feel though, that in a few years, he'll look back at the memory of this family cruise as a much richer experience than getting those few extra days school. He will, of course, have to work very hard to keep on track...he is not the best student.

We are from Ontario, Canada, so perhaps the permission is different for us than for those in the states. It is the child's responsibility to catch up, and our s to notify the school as to why they will be absent. We also meet with all teachers to explain and get any work that they need to do up front.

Good luck in your decision!!

[calenita]

Love the discussion. When I read some of the HORROR stories about the problems in taking children out of school in some school districts, I am glad I live in Ontario, Canada. My sister died of cancer at 48 - so many things she would have wanted to do and didn't and since then we have been taking an annual nice trip with our children. I want them to build memories. Since DH - our main breadwinner bless his heart - has a job which won't allow him to travel in the spring/summer/early fall we travel in the late fall or winter so we have to take the kids out of school. I have NEVER had a teacher complain to me about this but I did have one give my child - Grade 6 - TONS of work along with lots of textbooks to take along. This child, a straight A student, worked dilligently and when she came back after being gone almost two weeks, it took her class over a week to catch up to her! This year we are going in November to Spain and then a cruise to Italy. Spoke with the teachers and they want the children to make up the work before or after the trip and just enjoy the sights and learning on our trip. I am so grateful for this. All this to say, I approach each teacher individually and tell them about the trip and say we want to work with them and our child to make sure the work which is missed is done. They also know our family situation as far as DH's work so that works well. Our children are now 13, 12 and 8. I don't know how I will feel when DD is in High School so we will see. Another reason for taking this big trip now. Can't wait!

[CanadianTwosome]

[quote name='calenita']Love the discussion. When I read some of the HORROR stories about the problems in taking children out of school in some school districts, I am glad I live in Ontario, Canada. My sister died of cancer at 48 - so many things she would have wanted to do and didn't and since then we have been taking an annual nice trip with our children. I want them to build memories. Since DH - our main breadwinner bless his heart - has a job which won't allow him to travel in the spring/summer/early fall we travel in the late fall or winter so we have to take the kids out of school. I have NEVER had a teacher complain to me about this but I did have one give my child - Grade 6 - TONS of work along with lots of textbooks to take along. This child, a straight A student, worked dilligently and when she came back after being gone almost two weeks, it took her class over a week to catch up to her! This year we are going in November to Spain and then a cruise to Italy. Spoke with the teachers and they want the children to make up the work before or after the trip and just enjoy the sights and learning on our trip. I am so grateful for this. All this to say, I approach each teacher individually and tell them about the trip and say we want to work with them and our child to make sure the work which is missed is done. They also know our family situation as far as DH's work so that works well. Our children are now 13, 12 and 8. I don't know how I will feel when DD is in High School so we will see. Another reason for taking this big trip now. Can't wait![/quote]

I feel the same way, living in Saskatchewan. We met a lovely couple on the first cruise we took as a family, and our daughters got along really well, but since then we've invited them along on every trip we've planned, but because our schedules dictate that we travel during the school year, they haven't been able to join us. I'm not sure how they worked it out that first time, but apparently where they live in Texas, travel is an 'unexcused' absence that will lead to a repeated year of school. How ridiculous.

I absolutely agree about experiencing life while you can. I think people sometimes lose sight of the fact that life is really short, and just because someone is a child, there are no guarantees that they will be here later - or that we will. My nephew was diagnosed with cancer a week after his first birthday. He's a survivor, but many of the kids he met during his treatment are gone and will never be able to meet Mickey Mouse or swim in the Caribbean. On the second day of school here, a car full of high school students was in an accident, killing five. I hope their parents took opportunities to build memories with them while they had the chance - even if it meant missing a few days of school. A friend of ours lost her husband last year in a freak accident, when a piece of equipment on a construction site failed and he was crushed working nearby. My own father died when I was five. Life is short. As far as I'm concerned, no matter how long I live, it will never be long enough, so while I've got the chance, I'm going to experience everything I can and help my daughter do the same. I know neither of us will ever forget the first time we swam with dolphins... on a school day. :)

[bennifer]

Another great thing about homeschooling my kids. We can go on vacation anytime! But when they were in school, I didnt mind taking them out in elementary school. Middle and high school are a little trickier. I still say go for it.

[Conrycol]

Take your child out for the cruise. Family time is just as important (if not more) than school time!! We're taking our kids (5th and kindergarten) out of school this february for our cruise. Cruising with extended family so to me this is more important than missing a week of school.

[czechmate001]

A week before Christmas vacation by doing so we can afford to cruise as they fares are double if we go while she is on winter break. Ryleigh is 7 and is second grade and can make up whatever work is assigned over the break. Due to my husbands business spring and summer are out for us. :)

[brazilgirl]

I also believe that parents should have the right to take their children out of school if that is their choice. The obstacles some schools apparently create are mind-boggling.

However , some considerations should be made. As other posters have said so well , travel is the best teacher there is. If the parent is concientious , even a weekend trip to a park can be an amazing and educational experience.But there must be an effort on the parents part to point out the "new" , to explain , comment , debate ...If the family simply gets on the cruise ship , eats yummy , abundant food and goes and lies on the beach , maybe being taken out of school should be questioned.

On the other hand , if the parents take the opportunity to comment on the historical , social , botanical , zoological , economical aspects(tc, etc....) of the place being visited , then by all means pack your family´s bags.

And do not think your child is too "young" for that information. My 4 year now can tell you about Vesuvius , the gladiators , gondolas , Leonardo Da Vinci and Claude Monet.

When I took my kids out of school for 2 weeks , I gave my kids´teachers their itinerary beforehand , and their teachers created projects related to the places they would visit .It really enriched their experience. My daughter had to turn in a very elaborate "journal" , analyzing each country she visited. She learned so much.

We will be going on a Caribbean cruise on their summer vacation (in December).Since they will be out of school, it will be more to relax (but while learning).We will surely be alert to everything new and fascinating around us.

We will be traveling to the Baltics next June and we have already stated studying the countries and looking at pictures of the works of art that we will have the opportunity to see in "living color". It is wonderful for all of us (including me!) to start learning and dreaming ahead of time.

Canadiantwosome said something that really resonated in me.My husband is an oncologist and EVERY day he comes home with a story of a new person who was diagnosed with a life-changing conditon. Children, young mothers , grandparents...Life truly is a gift. We are so blessed to be able to travel with our loved ones, to see new and beautiful places together , to have those moments in which you stop and look around and think "this is so perfect , I will never, ever forget this".

Travel gives you those moments. There is nothing more important.

Have a wonderful trip,
Kim

[mr. godfredo]

I better preface my answer with the admission that I am an Assistant Principal at a California High School. Though I believe that many students can handle missing a week of school for a family vacation, many more can't. I also would like to let people know that in many states, schools are funded by attendance. If students miss school, the school and district get a financial hit from the state. This may not sound like a big deal, but the absence problems in many urban areas is epidemic. The public school systems in this country and especially in California are suffering financially right now and to pull out a student or two for a vacation may not only hurt your child's academic standing, but also the schools ability to fund many different programs that are designed to enhance student learning.

[NoelsCat]

[quote name='mr. godfredo']I also would like to let people know that in many states, schools are funded by attendance. If students miss school, the school and district get a financial hit from the state. This may not sound like a big deal, but the absence problems in many urban areas is epidemic. The public school systems in this country and especially in California are suffering financially right now and to pull out a student or two for a vacation may not only hurt your child's academic standing, but also the schools ability to fund many different programs that are designed to enhance student learning.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="3"][FONT="Century Gothic"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]With all due respect, I would like to voice my opinion to your reference to the ADA (Average Daily Attendance) policies that allots funding based on student absences. Frankly, I contend that the ADA is a stunning example of ignorant government bureaucracy creating sweeping policies that in no way reflect the needs of the educational system. First, it pays schools simply for students warming seats. Second, it is not equitable funding based on the communities its serving. Third, and most importantly, it assumes that the school has control of something it does not. Quite frankly, children attend school either because want to go/learn, and/or because they are raised by family that values an education and wants them to attend.

I doubt seriously that the parents who are taking their children on a cruise are the "truancy problems" that the bureaucracy intended to harness with these policies. Rather, they are simply the easiest to punish/control since they are more likely to fall into the category of "children who want to learn" and "parents who value education"...

The ADA method of funding is [U]bad policy[/U]. It punishes the very school districts that need the most support. Therefore, I argue that loving parents and educators should engage in civil discourse which will influence the change of this terrible public policy rather than submitting to it.

Quality time for families who otherwise support and encourage productive members of society who value education should not be punished due to bad public policy and agendas.

Frankly, school administrators, teachers, and parents would be better served supporting an agenda which empowers rather than [I]forces[/I] learning.

Thank you for your time.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[Kerry's Girls]

[quote name='brazilgirl']

Canadiantwosome said something that really resonated in me.My husband is an oncologist and EVERY day he comes home with a story of a new person who was diagnosed with a life-changing conditon. Children, young mothers , grandparents...Life truly is a gift. We are so blessed to be able to travel with our loved ones, to see new and beautiful places together , to have those moments in which you stop and look around and think "this is so perfect , I will never, ever forget this".

Travel gives you those moments. There is nothing more important.

Have a wonderful trip,
Kim[/quote]

I have to agree with this. As a kid, my parents had very little money for extras, but travel was always important. When I married, my husband and I never gave each other birthday or Christmas gifts - instead we would save the money to put toward a trip. When I lost him 10 years later, I was VERY happy that instead of buying things all those years, we had explored the world. Believe me, our daughters will be missing school for travel. a) I can't always get away from work during school holidays b) as a single mom I can't always afford to travel during school holidays and I am not willing to give up showing them as much of the world as we can cover.

On another note, I grew up in the California school system, which, at the time, had no problem letting kids out for travel. Now the rules have changed, but not because they decided that missing school for travel is harmful for kids - it has to do with financing. At the same time I read all the time about school funds being squandered in outrageous ways - i.e., storage space being rented to store a warehouse full of printer cartridges that were bought at top dollar and will expire before they can be used. Ugh - ok, can't get frustrated - we have a cruise in a week!!

Happy travels to all - no matter when you go.

Best,
Mia

Best,
Mia

[Havinsnest]

[quote name='NoelsCat'][SIZE=3][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=SeaGreen]With all due respect, I would like to voice my opinion to your reference to the ADA (Average Daily Attendance) policies that allots funding based on student absences. Frankly, I contend that the ADA is a stunning example of ignorant government bureaucracy creating sweeping policies that in no way reflect the needs of the educational system. First, it pays schools simply for students warming seats. Second, it is not equitable funding based on the communities its serving. Third, and most importantly, it assumes that the school has control of something it does not. Quite frankly, children attend school either because want to go/learn, and/or because they are raised by family that values an education and wants them to attend.

I doubt seriously that the parents who are taking their children on a cruise are the "truancy problems" that the bureaucracy intended to harness with these policies. Rather, they are simply the easiest to punish/control since they are more likely to fall into the category of "children who want to learn" and "parents who value education"...

The ADA method of funding is [U]bad policy[/U]. It punishes the very school districts that need the most support. Therefore, I argue that loving parents and educators should engage in civil discourse which will influence the change of this terrible public policy rather than submitting to it.

Quality time for families who otherwise support and encourage productive members of society who value education should not be punished due to bad public policy and agendas.

Frankly, school administrators, teachers, and parents would be better served supporting an agenda which empowers rather than [I]forces[/I] learning.

Thank you for your time.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/quote] While you have a very valid point I would also like to note that we - school admins, teachers, parents - have to go by the laws of our state. And our states are being pressed by the Federal Government for more and more as well. Unfortunately those who make the laws generally haven't been "in the trenches" to know what is actually going on there. We have to look at ADA for funding so we do. And if your child is not at school and we don't get paid for them then we may run short on money and need to raise school taxes to make up the shortfall. It's not a great system but it is the one currently in place.

I spent the last 10 years as one of 7 attendance clerks in a high school, now I'm the data clerk so I'm still dealing with attendance but on a larger scale. Our state says student's must be in attendance 95% of the time to be in compliance. There is no difference specified for excused or unexcused absences. Our district has taken that a little further and allows 5 excused absences per semester for illness or personal emergencies on a parent say-so. There can be no more than 5 excused unless there is documentation from a health or legal professional indicating illness or court proceedings. When a parent says "personal family business" I usually suspect a vacation or club volleyball or soccer tourney but so long as they are within their "5" we don't ask questions at our school. Other schools in our district demand to know what the family business is and if a parent refuses to elaborate the absence is not excused.

Vacations are not excused. Make up work is not given for unexcused absences so unexcused absences = zeros. More than 5 unexcused absences will get you a visit from the truancy officer and another 5 will land you in court and the fine can be hefty.

We believe all education should be parent led whether as homeschooling parents or parents of schooled children who educate their children by trips, vacations and educational field trips.
I would have loved to have taken our kids out of school for trips but it wasn't something we felt we could do. As our kids got into high school they wouldn't have wanted to miss school as they were concerned about AP classes and GPAs and whatnot.

All this to say....Know your school's policy, know your child's ability to make up work if allowed to do so, know how honest to be or not be with the school and teachers and make your decision accordingly.

[Havinsnest]

[quote name='NoelsCat'][SIZE=3][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=SeaGreen]With all due respect, I would like to voice my opinion to your reference to the ADA (Average Daily Attendance) policies that allots funding based on student absences. Frankly, I contend that the ADA is a stunning example of ignorant government bureaucracy creating sweeping policies that in no way reflect the needs of the educational system. First, it pays schools simply for students warming seats. Second, it is not equitable funding based on the communities its serving. Third, and most importantly, it assumes that the school has control of something it does not. Quite frankly, children attend school either because want to go/learn, and/or because they are raised by family that values an education and wants them to attend.

The ADA method of funding is [U]bad policy[/U].

Frankly, school administrators, teachers, and parents would be better served supporting an agenda which empowers rather than [I]forces[/I] learning.

[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/quote] While you have a very valid point I would also like to note that we - school admins, teachers, parents - have to go by the laws of our state. And our states are being pressed by the Federal Government for more and more as well. Unfortunately those who make the laws generally haven't been "in the trenches" to know what is actually going on there. We have to look at ADA for funding so we do. And if your child is not at school and we don't get paid for them then we may run short on money and need to raise school taxes to make up the shortfall. It's not a great system but it is the one currently in place.

I spent the last 10 years as one of 7 attendance clerks in a high school, now I'm the data clerk so I'm still dealing with attendance but on a larger scale. Our state says student's must be in attendance 95% of the time to be in compliance. There is no difference specified for excused or unexcused absences. Our district has taken that a little further and allows 5 excused absences per semester for illness or personal emergencies on a parent say-so. There can be no more than 5 excused unless there is documentation from a health or legal professional indicating illness or court proceedings. When a parent says "personal family business" I usually suspect a vacation or club volleyball or soccer tourney but so long as they are within their "5" we don't ask questions at our school. Other schools in our district demand to know what the family business is and if a parent refuses to elaborate the absence is not excused.

Vacations are not excused. Make up work is not given for unexcused absences so unexcused absences = zeros. More than 5 unexcused absences will get you a visit from the truancy officer and another 5 will land you in court and the fine can be hefty.

We believe all education should be parent led whether as homeschooling parents or parents of schooled children who educate their children by trips, vacations and educational field trips.
I would have loved to have taken our kids out of school for trips but it wasn't something we felt we could do. As our kids got into high school they wouldn't have wanted to miss school as they were concerned about AP classes and GPAs and whatnot.

All this to say....Know your school's policy, know your child's ability to make up work if allowed to do so, know how honest to be or not be with the school and teachers and make your decision accordingly.

[CanadianTwosome]

[quote name='NoelsCat'][SIZE=3][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=seagreen]With all due respect, I would like to voice my opinion to your reference to the ADA (Average Daily Attendance) policies that allots funding based on student absences. Frankly, I contend that the ADA is a stunning example of ignorant government bureaucracy creating sweeping policies that in no way reflect the needs of the educational system. First, it pays schools simply for students warming seats. Second, it is not equitable funding based on the communities its serving. Third, and most importantly, it assumes that the school has control of something it does not. Quite frankly, children attend school either because want to go/learn, and/or because they are raised by family that values an education and wants them to attend. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=seagreen]I doubt seriously that the parents who are taking their children on a cruise are the "truancy problems" that the bureaucracy intended to harness with these policies. Rather, they are simply the easiest to punish/control since they are more likely to fall into the category of "children who want to learn" and "parents who value education"... [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=seagreen]The ADA method of funding is [U]bad policy[/U]. It punishes the very school districts that need the most support. Therefore, I argue that loving parents and educators should engage in civil discourse which will influence the change of this terrible public policy rather than submitting to it. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=seagreen]Quality time for families who otherwise support and encourage productive members of society who value education should not be punished due to bad public policy and agendas. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=seagreen]Frankly, school administrators, teachers, and parents would be better served supporting an agenda which empowers rather than [I]forces[/I] learning. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=seagreen]Thank you for your time.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/quote]

Well said.

[mr. godfredo]

You can bash the ADA system all you want, but I didn't come up with it. All I know is that I am trying to work within the framework of the law to educate children. You can wave your political flag anywhere you wish, but keep it away from me and my school which is grossly underfunded. I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but perhaps you should be angered with those who make the laws rather then those who are working for the greater good. It is absolutely ignorant to shoot the messenger in this situation and that is what your comments have done!

[Swiggy720]

I have a 14 year old daughter. I have taken my daugther out of school several times without any issues. I give the school system about a months notice and my daughter has had no issues with making up any of the work. Luckey for me my daughter is a staight A student and has no issues with the material being covered. In fact the school system seems to be so concerned with "no child left behind" that students like my daugther are the ones left behind. I think it is a shame that i don't feel like my daugther is really missing anything while she is not at school, but when my daughter gets flawless grades year after year, yet i never see her crack a book, and have her tell me that she is bored in her advanced math class because the teacher keeps covering the same material over and over - i get a little frustrated. Don't get me wrong i am an advocate of the public school system and truly believe that a lot of good is being done, unfortuatly it just doesn't involve my daugther (in fact they no longer support the gifted program in our school system). I know a lot of people would say " private schools" But i feel that i pay my taxes, not to mention the atheletic programs are far superior in public schools (at least in my area), plus the public schools, i believe, offer a lot in the way of "real life" (just my opinion)

So when it comes to taking my dauther out of school, she has almost never missed any school except for a week once a year for vacation, she gets good grades, and she has an opportunity to see and experience a lot of new thinks (culture, geography, meeting people of many types of backgrounds, history of a region ect...) She may not be learning what is on the c[FONT=Arial]urriculum[/FONT] of the school, but she is learning and having a ton of fun while she does!

Good luck with your decision, and i hope you have a great vacation!

[CanadianTwosome]

[quote name='mr. godfredo']You can bash the ADA system all you want, but I didn't come up with it. All I know is that I am trying to work within the framework of the law to educate children. You can wave your political flag anywhere you wish, but keep it away from me and my school which is grossly underfunded. I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but perhaps you should be angered with those who make the laws rather then those who are working for the greater good. It is absolutely ignorant to shoot the messenger in this situation and that is what your comments have done![/quote]

I think you're taking this a bit too personally. All of the comments regarding how ridiculous the ADA system is ARE directed at the system, and not those that have to work within it. Administrators and parents are really in the same boat, since you're all forced to work within the same unreasonable rules.

In effect, there are two different discussions happening here. People can express their opinions about children missing school all they want theoretically, with the assumption that they CAN, but there is also a discussion about the fact that not everyone has the choice to make. I haven't seen anyone 'blame' teachers or administrators for the policies they're enforcing though... again, nobody involved has a choice here, it's the legislation that is the problem - and it definitely is a problem (in my opinion). I completely agree with NoelsCat; it IS bad policy.

[NoelsCat]

[quote name='mr. godfredo']You can bash the ADA system all you want, but I didn't come up with it. All I know is that I am trying to work within the framework of the law to educate children. You can wave your political flag anywhere you wish, but keep it away from me and my school which is grossly underfunded. I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but perhaps you should be angered with those who make the laws rather then those who are working for the greater good. It is absolutely ignorant to shoot the messenger in this situation and that is what your comments have done![/QUOTE]

I am sorry that your school in underfunded. My post was not written as a personal attack of you. Nor did I attack teachers or administrators but rather the poor policy system of the ADA.

I did not "shoot the messenger" nor did I call you any names such as "ignorant".

I deserve an apology for your [I]personal attack[/I].

The only political flag I wave is the stars and stripes. One of our founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, promoted civil discourse for the growth of democracy. I respectfully suggest that the school system would be better served by parents, adminstrators, and teachers embracing a non-totalitarian approach to mutual problem solving rather than name-calling. Certainly, throwing one's hands up in the air and simply accepting the powers that be, are not necessarily the most rapid way to envoke change of a bad system.

Thank you for your time.