Cave tubing death

[czechmate001]

I saw this on the carnival board this morning

 

Cave Tubing Death

All pasengers aboard Carnival Glory today recieved a letter from the cruise lines informing us of a death of a passenger while Cave Tubing in Belize.The letter is as follows:Dear Carnival Guest,As some of you know, there was a tragic accident earlier today during a cave tubing excurision that regettably resulted in the loss of on of our guest. We are all deply saddended by this loss and extend our heartfelt condolences to the family. A member of Carnival's Team staff has remained in Belize with thefamily to provide any and all assistance.We know that some of you also participated in this excursion and we are sorry that you experienced what some of you have described as rough conditions. The saftey and well being of our guests is our paramount concern. We understand that this experience must have been disturbing for those of you who participated in the excursion. Our Medical Center staff is available to provide comlimantry assistance to anyone who may require attention. Additionally, we are making arrangements to have a team of psychologtists board the ship on Friday in Freeport to offer their services to those who may want to speak to a professional conselor.We want to assure you that we are very concerned over the reports we recieved and are conduction a fulll investigation of the events. Additionally we have suspended the tour pending the results of the investigation. We would appreciate any information you may have that will assist us in our investigation. For those of you that can provide assistance, please come by the Purser's infodrmation desk on Lobby Deck 3 forward, to complete a statement.Lastly, please join us in keeping this family in our thoughts and prayers.SincerelyGarry CahillPresident & CEO Carnival Curise LinesThis poster cannot add much to the official letter. I know that the person who died was a female and that her husband was with her on the excurison.It is also my understanding that she hit her head and the cause of death wasdrowning. I was not on this excursion, but have taken this trip in the past, and thought it to be safe. I did confirm that the water was not very deepbut, as you know, a person can drown in just five inches of water. I did hearthat the husband tried to save her. Thats all I know at this point, perhaps other Cruise Critics aboard can add some information.

 

here is a link to the news http://www.7newsbelize.com/sstory.php?nid=12244

[CSKoehler]

How horrible!! I may have to rethink my tour.

[SunFunCruiser]

What time of year are the tides high like this?

WE did it in July and didn't have a problem. I'm going again in May and wanted to do it again.

[rizjti]

I saw this on the carnival board this morning

 

Cave Tubing Death

All pasengers aboard Carnival Glory today recieved a letter from the cruise lines informing us of a death of a passenger while Cave Tubing in Belize.The letter is as follows:Dear Carnival Guest,As some of you know, there was a tragic accident earlier today during a cave tubing excurision that regettably resulted in the loss of on of our guest. We are all deply saddended by this loss and extend our heartfelt condolences to the family. A member of Carnival's Team staff has remained in Belize with thefamily to provide any and all assistance.We know that some of you also participated in this excursion and we are sorry that you experienced what some of you have described as rough conditions. The saftey and well being of our guests is our paramount concern. We understand that this experience must have been disturbing for those of you who participated in the excursion. Our Medical Center staff is available to provide comlimantry assistance to anyone who may require attention. Additionally, we are making arrangements to have a team of psychologtists board the ship on Friday in Freeport to offer their services to those who may want to speak to a professional conselor.We want to assure you that we are very concerned over the reports we recieved and are conduction a fulll investigation of the events. Additionally we have suspended the tour pending the results of the investigation. We would appreciate any information you may have that will assist us in our investigation. For those of you that can provide assistance, please come by the Purser's infodrmation desk on Lobby Deck 3 forward, to complete a statement.Lastly, please join us in keeping this family in our thoughts and prayers.SincerelyGarry CahillPresident & CEO Carnival Curise LinesThis poster cannot add much to the official letter. I know that the person who died was a female and that her husband was with her on the excurison.It is also my understanding that she hit her head and the cause of death wasdrowning. I was not on this excursion, but have taken this trip in the past, and thought it to be safe. I did confirm that the water was not very deepbut, as you know, a person can drown in just five inches of water. I did hearthat the husband tried to save her. Thats all I know at this point, perhaps other Cruise Critics aboard can add some information.

 

here is a link to the news http://www.7newsbelize.com/sstory.php?nid=12244

I was there. It was horrible. What should have been a wonderful excursion, turned tragedy. People I had spoken to before the trip said it was wonderful. What happened was there was alot of rain in Belize prior to our tubing trip. Where we crossed the river to hike up to our entry point, the water should have been knee deep and crystal clear. It was chest high and brown and murky, but we didn't know any better. When we entered the river on our tubes, the woman was just heading in as we followed, with myself, my friend and our 12 year old daughters nestle between us, no guide with us, just pointing the way, stay to the left...etc, which was nearly impossiple to do in the swift, fast moving current. We had a tube, flimsy life jacket (which many tied around their waist) and a little head light that barely worked. Into the cave we went, it was pitch dark, fast moving and scary as heck! Our lights were no help and I tried to pretend it was fun, just relax we said to our daughters. (They were yelling...scared) We broke into 2 groups because we couldn't control all of us together. So it was myself and my daughter together and my friend and her daughter together and we soon lost sight of each other.

We heard chaos...yelling...then saw some light. We heard...go to the left...which we tried to do, but the current was very strong, forcing us forward , but my daughter wanted out!! The hand of God must of grabbed us, (which I later met his wife) and stopped us from going further. In only maybe 10 inches of water, my daughter got up, I had to flip off my tube in order to avoid going any further into a wall.(We are all strong swimmers) I got up and there at my feet was this poor woman, people working on her, They had just gotten her out of the water. We moved away to give space. She had hit a wall with her tube (right there after the first cave where there was some light) and was sucked under and trapped by the vortex. (Like a washing machine) They couldn't free her as the current was too swift. Another cruise passenger, who I believe was a parmedic, was working on her. It was just so sad. One of the guides, Edgar, was fantastic, helping everyone. We were also told by an employee that the guides that are there now are too inexperienced. We should never have been put on the river. It was way too dangerous! If the water had been normal, it probally would have been a beautiful trip. My thoughts and prayers go out to that woman and her family. I understand she was with her parents. Her husband, I understand was back on the Glory. God help you through this tough time.

[pmdc5696]

How tragic for this family to have such a loss and to be so far from home when it happens. My prayers go out to them.

[u2us4]

We were on the river right behind the tragedy and saw her receiving CPR. Everything I have read leads me to believe that we were experiencing a very rare extra powerful current. Our group including four children was lucky to be with cavetubing (dot) com. They hooked us together and guided us down personally. Other groups were just putting individuals in to fend for themsleves. Looking back on the event I am convinced that NO groups should have been allowed on the river that day. I'm sure there is no comparison between what we experienced that day and the norm for that very popular tour.

[enjoyinglife]

We were on the river right behind the tragedy and saw her receiving CPR. Everything I have read leads me to believe that we were experiencing a very rare extra powerful current. Our group including four children was lucky to be with cavetubing (dot) com. They hooked us together and guided us down personally. Other groups were just putting individuals in to fend for themsleves. Looking back on the event I am convinced that NO groups should have been allowed on the river that day. I'm sure there is no comparison between what we experienced that day and the norm for that very popular tour.

 

 

what did your tour group say about it? I am actually booked with them for February. I am wondering who makes the decision to go / not go? The company or who? There is one thing I am thinking...I would probably still book this trip, but if it looks like the water is unsafe, I will just chose to lose my money. Under good conditions, it should should be all right. Do you have any hints / advice? What should we look for?

[SunFunCruiser]

What company did this terrible accident happen with?

We went two years ago with a group of 12 and we were hooked together, my son was 9 at the time. It was a fun experience.

I was planning on taking another group in May.

I think they should really monitor this kind of thing and cancel all tours when the currents are liek this.

[fabulousmindy]

What company did this terrible accident happen with?

We went two years ago with a group of 12 and we were hooked together, my son was 9 at the time. It was a fun experience.

I was planning on taking another group in May.

I think they should really monitor this kind of thing and cancel all tours when the currents are liek this.

 

 

It was Belle (sp?) tours the Official Carnival excursion. I would book private. We were with Major Tom and his men and felt very safe that day. I had friends with Yhonnie and they felt the same way.

[gday12345]

We were there on Sept. 18th. We did the excursion with Yhonny and while we came to this same area there was a group that had gotten stranded on the wrong side of the cave. There was a major attempt to rescue them as we were safely guided through by our guides. We held the big lights on them to assist as long as we could. I don't know the outcome but several emergency vehicles were approaching as we left the park. I felt completely safe with Yhonny's group as they physically guided us to the right side and had previously warned us about the area and the high water. At that time Carnival had canceled their excursions but this link states it was a Carnival booked excursion.

 

 

http://www.wftv.com/news/17577889/detail.html

[SunFunCruiser]

Sad :(

 

I used Coral Breeze last time and felt very safe. They hooked us together and there was 2 guides for our small group.

I noticed how unorganized the CCL group was when we went past them. There were so many in that group and they were all over the place.

They shoudl really have some guidelines they have to adhere to because I can only imagine what woudl happen if people stop taking these tours in Belize. They would lose a lot of thier income.

[lellis]

It was Belle (sp?) tours the Official Carnival excursion. I would book private. We were with Major Tom and his men and felt very safe that day. I had friends with Yhonnie and they felt the same way.

 

I actually went to the pursers desk after our excursion to complain about this company. We were with Major Tom, but this company guides and guests pushed their way past us on the hike, knocked over an elderly lady in our group and were just generally rude. When we got to the river behind them, they were just plopping people in one at a time and off they went. We witnessed a little boy who was with his dad almost drown because they tried to put them both in the tube with legs hanging down instead of sitting atop the float. Every time the dad moved, the boy went under. They were off in the cave before they were ever adjusted - heck, I don't know if they ever were. We didn't see them once they started floating.

[kjr05001]

For people who are still interested in cave tubing in Belize, I think it is a matter of picking the right company. We went with Major Tom in August and it was one of the best experiences in my life. You could not ask for a better excursion. But not only that, we felt absolutely safe, especially after seeing other tour groups and speaking to other cruisers.

 

To start with our tour guide Mike (who was incredible) told everyone that he did not care how well they could swim they could not get in the river without their life jacket on (and not just tied to their waste or tube.) Additionally we were put into groups of 10-12 - two rows of five. We were connected to ther person in front by our legs and the person next to us by our arms. There were two guides for each group one in the front and one in the back. (except the smaller 6 person group which just had Mike the strongest guide). All three groups stayed together. Major Tom was also there and assisted around turns or when the current was fast. Because of the competance of Major Tom and the guides and their stict adherence to safety, there was almost no risk of a similar tradgedy occurring.

 

The group that came with CCL were on their own, with some guides shouting directions at them. Half the people weren't wearing life jackets (just had them attached to the tube). The group was in complete dissaray, in fact several times our guides had to move us away from tubers who were out of control and running us down. When we got back to the ship we spoke with someone who went through CCL and he said that around the first turn his wife was thrown into a rock from the current and there was no guide around to help. When he went over he got pulled into the rock and hit his head. He had a big cut over his eye. Luckily, they both managed to get out of the current, without any assitance.

 

From my experience cave-tubing could be one of the best excursions on your vacation, but it is important to pick the company that will make sure you are safe. I am sure there are other company's that have the safety standards similar to Major Tom. But I can personally tell you that Major Tom's is a safe and wonderful experience.

[cold in MN]

I actually went to the pursers desk after our excursion to complain about this company. We were with Major Tom, but this company guides and guests pushed their way past us on the hike, knocked over an elderly lady in our group and were just generally rude. When we got to the river behind them, they were just plopping people in one at a time and off they went. We witnessed a little boy who was with his dad almost drown because they tried to put them both in the tube with legs hanging down instead of sitting atop the float. Every time the dad moved, the boy went under. They were off in the cave before they were ever adjusted - heck, I don't know if they ever were. We didn't see them once they started floating.

 

Which company were you complaining about? Belle Tours or Yhonnie? I'm curious because I have a reservation with Yhonnie's tour and am a little concerned.

 

Thanks

[MTAggie]

Which company were you complaining about? Belle Tours or Yhonnie? I'm curious because I have a reservation with Yhonnie's tour and am a little concerned.

 

Thanks

 

I believe that is referring to Belle Tours, which is who Carnival uses.

[enjoyinglife]

Which company were you complaining about? Belle Tours or Yhonnie? I'm curious because I have a reservation with Yhonnie's tour and am a little concerned.

 

Thanks

 

I agree with mtaggie, I think they were refering to belle tours.

[bcs819]

Which company were you complaining about? Belle Tours or Yhonnie? I'm curious because I have a reservation with Yhonnie's tour and am a little concerned.

 

Thanks

 

We were with Yhony and had an amazing time - I never felt unsafe or in any danger and would go with him again in a heartbeat!

[SANDYJABS]

Carnival has had past guests complain about this excursion. A local women has a copy of the letter she sent to Carnival after having a very similar situation happen to her on the excursion-thank goodness she did not get injured badly.

The memorial service was tonight for this woman she was a nurse at one of the major hospitals in our area and attended my friends wedding reception last year, my prayers are with her family.

[DJ56]

I just want to thank cruise critic. I went on my 1st cruise last Sept. on the Glory. I went cave tubing with Yhonny also. It was so much fun and am planning to go on the Glory next Sept. and was considering doing cave tubing in Belize again. I just want to THANK everyone who used cruise critic last year before my cruise. It was on the roll call for my cruise where I found out about doing the cave tubing with Yhonny's group. If I had not found cruise critic and all of it's wonderful info I too would have booked through Carnival because I would not have known anything else. Though cruise critic I learned so much about my cruise ahead of time and so much was so very useful and helpful. Again, thank you cruise critic. My heart goes out to the family who lost their loved one while in Belize.

[csanders]

I was just in Belize the first week of September and took the cave tubing trip. We were on our own so we used the guides that are associated with Jaguar paw. It was only my husband and I and 1 guide. He told us the cruise lines were pushing for tighter regulations on the excursions because the cruise ship passengers have had accidents, and were careless and ruining things for every one else.

I also spoke to a dear friend who owns a tour company on Caye Caulker. he told me the experienced guides do not want to handle the cruise ship excursions because the cruise lines have cut their pay per passenger. since the experienced guides won't work for peanuts they are hiring and training new guides for the cruise excursions and have had many accidents due to this phenomenon.

I agree with all of the posts that say do not book thru the cruise ship desk. If you want to take an excursion, book it privately and get an experienced guide who knows the area. It will be worth your money in the long run and these guides have great safety records, and will share a lifetime of knowledge and experience.

[vbsnyder]

What a tragic and avoidable accident. And now in the fog of all of the grief and sorrow will come the finger pointing. Who is to blame? That answer may take years to unravel, but I would venture to be more comfortable with trying to explain who is not too blame. First of all the most difficult point of defense will come from the cruise ship. Unfortunately, and in hindsight, this accident was waiting to happen. The fact the passenger who was killed was traveling on a Carnival ship is irrelevant. This factor means little in the large scheme of things. As an avid Carnival cruiser I will not be deterred from booking in the future. I strongly feel that unless they had received and ignored complaints from their passengers in the past, they, like many of the passengers may not have been aware of the inherent and obviously ignored dangers of SOME operators. On the other hand, when the shock has subsided it would be wise for ALL cruise ships to look toward the future and to proceed with caution. Passengers on Cruise ships come from every walk of life, some of us are laid back and adventurous, others may be wildly cautious, however when all of us embark on a dream; we tend to leave our good sense on shore. Therefore, the cruise ships need to go beyond just the confines of the high seas when looking after passenger safety, THEY MUST POLICE THE SAFETY OF THEIR EXCURSION OPERATORS. And finally under the catagory of who is not to blame, perhaps the cruise lines should be looking to CC memebers tour guide choices, ie Major Tom in Belize.

[vbsnyder]

What a tragic and avoidable accident. And now in the fog of all of the grief and sorrow will come the finger pointing. Who is to blame? That answer may take years to unravel, but I would venture to be more comfortable with trying to explain who is not too blame. First of all the most difficult point of defense will come from the cruise ship. Unfortunately, and in hindsight, this accident was waiting to happen. The fact the passenger who was killed was traveling on a Carnival ship is irrelevant. This factor means little in the large scheme of things. As an avid Carnival cruiser I will not be deterred from booking in the future. I strongly feel that unless they had received and ignored complaints from their passengers in the past, they, like many of the passengers may not have been aware of the inherent and obviously ignored dangers of SOME operators. On the other hand, when the shock has subsided it would be wise for ALL cruise ships to look toward the future and to proceed with caution. Passengers on Cruise ships come from every walk of life, some of us are laid back and adventurous, others may be wildly cautious, however when all of us embark on a dream; we tend to leave our good sense on shore. Therefore, the cruise ships need to go beyond just the confines of the high seas when looking after passenger safety, THEY MUST POLICE THE SAFETY OF THEIR EXCURSION OPERATORS. And going one step further, perhaps the cruise lines should check out CC. Our choice (twice) and the obvious choice of many members is Major Tom.

[u2us4]

I will say that Yhony of cave-tubing dot com does not charge you in advance. You do NOT pay until you are on the bus heading back to the ship. Within that reality, I would think anyone would be free to object doing the float trip once you got down to the river and realized it was particularly high and strong that day (of course, how would you know that if you've never been before?). Anyway, Yhony and company should still receive some payment and tip even then. I'm sure something could be worked out, but no one should have to go or pay if conditions are dangerous.

[wadethegringo]

SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR CAVE TUBING TOURS INTRODUCED

 

October 03, 2008

 

The Ministry of Tourism, BTB, and NICH have enforced safety regulations for Cave Tubing Tours. At a meeting in early September certain measures were agreed upon to govern the safety practices of tour guides and tour operators. This included a clear outline of who is responsible for making sure policies for use of caves are adhered to. Kenneth Williams is the Product Development Officer at the Belize Tourism Board.

Kenneth Williams, Product Development Officer

 

“The law is being enforced for safety of the guests, but it is not only for cave tubing it is for all high risk and water based activity. If they are in a national park that is governed by NICH then institute of Archaeology has that jurisdiction. If they are on in open river then it is at their own risk because no one has real jurisdiction over that. If they are at a national park NICH/Institute of Archaeology has the last say as to whether or not anyone can conduct any tours at that park. Mostly it is for safety that is number one.”

 

This meeting was followed by another meeting on Wednesday and the regulations were enforced yesterday. In addition to the measures, the Institute of Archaeology and the Belize Tourism Board will be providing all tour guides mandatory training before taking tours in the cave system. This includes a 2 to 3 day course on Caves and the ancients Maya, Cave Safety, Cave Ethics, Cave Geography and Regulations for operating in caves and a 5 day course on Swift Water Rescue, Advanced First Aid and Cave Rescue. The training will include penalties for not adhering to the newly enforced policies.

 

http://www.lovefm.com/ndisplay.php?nid=8743

[camperhawk]

This is the answer I received from Major Tom regarding my excursion in D

You are very astute. As a pionner in the industry, I have been harping to the authorities to do certain things, warning them that imminent disaster was possible at the caves.

And it happened.

Now, systems are in place, authorities are present to ensure adherance, and at last the system seems to be working.

We, however, do not and never depended on authority - we simply obey ALL the rules and regulations, and ensure SAFETY first, and last.

Waiting for your confirmation, and then we will confirm the tour.

Regards, Major Tom

ec.