What are parents thinking?

[FinelyCruising]

Can I get you a Cocktail before dinner? :)

[hstrybuf]

I'll take you up on that FC! Hmmm, let's start with a Long Island Ice Tea and go from there. :D

[NitaBcruising]

Stretch,

 

I love it! How do you do those animations? Wait, don't tell me - I like being surprised. I like the point (made with pictures).

stb, I appreciate your starting this thread. I think you have a valid point. We have all seen, I would assume, disorderly kids on a cruise. Sometimes in front of their parents! I too, hope that kids are supervised and safe on a cruise. Thanks for your comments!

 

Everyone else, I've enjoyed the banter! I believe that the parents that post here, are the ones that don't let their kids misbehave on a ship! Or, try not to anywhere! So, the odds are, those offending, don't read these boards! Right????

[critterchick]

Did y’all leave any booze or munchies for me???? I’ll have an apple martini & some pretzels, please.

 

Finelycruising, you’re right, it was the Mod way of dressing. And I didn’t leave the house that way – we all congregated in the girls’ room to do ourselves up. I’m sure our mothers had no idea:rolleyes:

 

For the record, I’m 51, and in spite of dressing in such a ridiculous fashion, and having a working father AND mother, managed to graduate from high school & and Ivy League college (now THAT was some growing up in a hurry).

 

Re the working mother thing: my mom was an MD at a time when there were about 100 wimmen docs in the whole country (yes, I'm prone to exaggeration), so I think she could be fairly categorized as a driven professional. She was always there for me, though, planning her office hours around our departure for/arrival from school – the ultimate super-mother! I couldn't imagine doing that, so I just have 4-legged kids. It works for me!

[hstrybuf]

So, the odds are, those offending, don't read these boards! Right????

I'd have to agree with you Nita! If we're lucky, we'll catch a few that just didn't realize how a ship is like a small community and can have the same dangers. If we can open a few eyes and make people think, maybe someone's child will be safer on their next cruise.

 

critterchick, I have some Hershey's Kisses. Will those do? :D

[Shanafan]

stb, I appreciate your starting this thread. I think you have a valid point. We have all seen, I would assume, disorderly kids on a cruise. Sometimes in front of their parents! I too, hope that kids are supervised and safe on a cruise. Thanks for your comments!

 

Everyone else, I've enjoyed the banter! I believe that the parents that post here, are the ones that don't let their kids misbehave on a ship! Or, try not to anywhere! So, the odds are, those offending, don't read these boards! Right????

I have to agree with you there. It doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, are a stay at home Mom or a professional or if you are a single parent or married. If, as a parent, you teach your kids the basics------what I consider basics----to be polite, respect other, mind their manners, ect........it doesn't matter what you do for a living....what kind of house you live in, or whether they have been in day care. You can't by class.

[NitaBcruising]

Thanks hstrybuf and Lisa!

 

BTW, I have some Hershey's Miniatures. Anyone want one??? ;) :D And I think I may have some cheetos. I'll go look, and be back! :p

[Shanafan]

You can't by class.

And it appears I can't spell! Should read buy-------

[hstrybuf]

Here's a story for you. On the Dawn Princess there was one couple with a nine year old son who would turn him loose for the day. In the evening in the dining room, the mother would laugh about how they hadn't seen him all day. :eek: Other cruisers reported seeing him in the Lido deck restaurant at lunch, in just his swimsuit, and the staff taking care of him. They also thought the Newlywed/Not So Newlywed Game which was at 10:30 p.m. appropriate for someone his age.

 

Just another example of what were those parents thinking! Or in their case, not thinking at all. :rolleyes:

[MrsPete]

Coming in late on this one . . .

 

I am amazed at the parents who pay no attention to what their kids do AT HOME. I'm amazed when I see kids riding bikes down busy roads. I'm amazed when parents don't know their kid is failing a subject in school. I'm amazed when parents drop their middle schoolers off at the mall for hours at a time. I'm amazed when I leave school at 4:30 and see kids sitting outside waiting for their parents to pick them up (school's dismissed at 2:30). I'm especially amazed when my high school students talk about their parents buying beer for them (and their friends). I'm not one bit surprised that these people don't change their behavior onboard!

 

I have never been the victim of door-knocking, etc., but I am concerned when I see teens obviously drunk, etc. I read a post once about a parent who was angry with the cruise line when the final bill arrived -- her 15 and 16 year old children had run up a $500 bar tab. I wonder why SHE didn't realize that they'd been doing all that drinking!

 

As the mother of two girls, let me assure you: clothing is tough once you get to a certain age/size! My daughters are not allowed to wear suggestive tees, super-short skirts, etc. But that's ALL you can find at the mall! In my area, JC Penny is the worst offender; it's like walking through the MTV closet. You must make a special effort to find decent "little girl" clothes (I like Lands' End), and everyone isn't willing to make the effort. The result: lazy parents just buy what's available, and the stores keep stocking it because it sells!

 

I do think clothing is getting worse. Yes, we used to wear tube tops, etc. "back in the day", but we only wore bare mid-driffs at the beach! Our things were tight-tight jeans, black concert tees, and racoon-looking black eye liner. I looked through my old high school yearbook, and I was shocked at how LONG the cheerleaders' skirts appeared back then (as compared to today's cheer attire). And we did know when to put on a dress, hose, etc. when the occasion arose. Today's kids don't have much of a sense of appropriate-dress. Tonight at the mall I saw a teen girl wearing a backless turquoise halter top with an ordinary bra -- horrible sight! Take it from a teacher: today's kids are wearing considerably less than we ever did back in the 70s!

 

I think the working parent/day care thing doesn't fit very well in this case. I've known SAHM's kids who were overindulged, spoiled brats; I've also known SAHM's kids who had been taught responsibility exceptionally well. Ditto for the children of working moms. My own mom was a SAHM, but I work; she's told me many times that I'm a better mom than she was -- and I agree. Why? I think it's because she spent most of my childhood dealing with issues arising from poverty, lack of education, my father's alcoholism, and later divorce. I, on the other hand, live in the proverbial white picket fence house, and my marriage has been blessed far beyond my expectations. Every situation is unique. In my opinion, no generalization is possible.

[NitaBcruising]

Good reply, MrsPete!

 

You mention the skirt and hose. When we were on our family cruise, my 19 year old granddaughter thought she had nice clothes for formal. We happened to have a couple of hours to shop at a mall, just before we left. I had already bought her a nice, longish black skirt and a red blouse, for informal. So, I found her a red slinky, holiday top, with sequins on it. I gathered she didn't really like it, but let me buy it for her. She had grumbled to her parents, while getting dressed, but wore it anyway. She told her Mom afterwards, that she realized it was more appropriate than anything she'd brought! In fact, she chose to wear it again the 2nd formal night! Sometimes they just need to see that all ages dress that nice, (well, and much nicer!) for formal! She also had a cousin in our group, who did not dress as formal, so she felt good about herself! Hah! Grandma's can be right! ;) :D

[vickie1ok]

Why in the world would you let your minor child run around on a boat filled with strangers? I would be concerned about Pedophiles, predators, and the like. I have gone to the night clubs after hours (after midnight) and seen teenage girls in short skits dancing with obviously grown men. My last Carnival Cruise, three teenage girls had to be kicked out of the "all about sex" game that was for adults only.

What a great post. I've worried about my cruise sailing Dec 11 because I fear there will be a lot of kids running amuk and I have little tolerence for ill behaved children. My mother has even less tolerence because she becomes an "ill behaved child" herself when confronted with them. I'm hoping that parents won't pull their children from school to go on this sailing date, but heck, if they don't care about their children's welfare, then why care about their education?

 

But you have made me think about a greater issue, which is the health and welfare of these kids. I guess it doesn't matter where in the world you are, irresponsible parents are irresponsible parents. Seeing irresponsible parenting is worse than their offspring's behavior because they are generally (not always) the cause of it.

[traceyred]

Very good thread. Thanks to everyone for the great insight.

 

On a more serious note about predators. They are out there and, as parents, we can't be too cautious. My best friend was molested on an Amtrack train when she was 13. Another friend was molested at Boy Scout camp by a counselor when he was in his early teens. I managed to get away from an attempted molestation from the husband of a couple I used to babysit for when I was 15 and he was driving me home. Predators aren't everywhere -- behind every corner. But, they do find places where children can be approached unchallenged. A cruise ship could easily be a target for predators. As a parent, I won't let my 11 year old son run around the ship on his own -- just like I won't let him run around the mall on his own. We'll be on the Mariner next month and he'll either be with us or in the youth program. I do imagine it is more difficult when the kids reach 13 and up. It's hard to get kids to understand that they are targets for these type of funky people. When I was young, I didn't really believe all that either. I just though my Mom was paranoid. Now, of course, that I'm a parent myself, I know that she really wasn't paranoid. She was just trying to keep me safe.

 

I also think that kids mature at different rates and until they understand how to make good choices, they can't be given the kind of freedom that requires responsibility. My son still thinks he's a superhero and if anyone ever messes with him, he'll just "beat them up." Once he "gets" how things really work and how to avoid dangerous situations, he'll get more freedom.

 

That's my take on it anyway. This is a good topic and hopefully people will read these posts who *are* good parents, but who just don't fully understand how dangerous the world can be because they've never experienced the horror of such an attack.

 

Tracey

 

Sovereign of the Seas 12/99

Majesty of the Seas 9/04

Mariner of the Seas 12/04

[breenw]

Getting back to the original message on this post, you've all talked about kids of all ages running around by themselves and misbehaving on a ship. But what about kids that misbehave in front of their parents on a ship and the parents do nothing about it?

 

The last cruise we took, there was a couple with a little boy about 4-5 years old. This kid was a poster child for the word MONSTER! We went on a boat excursion to Stingray City and snorkeling at a couple of other spots. The little boy decided he didn't want to get in the water because it was too cold. So, instead of one of his parents getting out of the water and sitting with him on the boat, they just put him on the boat by himself. He proceeded to keep yelling at the top of his lungs to his parents who continued to snorkel. There were several people still on the boat, so it was disturbing to listen to him. He also kept throwing his snorkel mask into the water, and polite, unsuspecting passengers kept "retrieving" it for him. He started running around the boat and went up to my son and "punched" him in the stomach for no reason. There was a photographer on board who was 5 months pregnant and had an expensive water camera. Just when he started to go over and mess with her camera - I had had enough. I went over, picked him up, sat him down hard on the bench and told him that he wasn't to move until his parents got on board the boat. He just sat there and looked at me. One time he started to get up and I just looked at him and said "don't you dare". Well, he sat there for over 15 minutes!

 

When his parents decided to get back on the boat, I told him that I had disciplined there son for his unruly behavior and I didn't appreciate him hitting my son. The father was furious with the kid (even though he wasn't concerned enough to watch his child while they did their snorkeling!). The mother just didn't say anything. It was obvious that this kid ruled the house in his family. The father took the boy by his arm, made him sit down and started telling him he was being bad. The kid immediately started screaming at the top of his lungs, "my arm hurts, my arm hurts", etc. The mother just sat there and consoled the boy and everybody on the boat was ready to hurl the boy overboard (in their minds).

 

The rest of the cruise, it seemed that this kid was everywhere running around by himself. He would cut in front of people to go down the pool slide, and knock into people if they were in his way.

 

The point is, it isn't always kids misbehaving when the parents aren't around, but sometimes there are these parents who think this behavior is acceptable. How do you combat that mentality?

[LoriLinay]

I'm hoping that parents won't pull their children from school to go on this sailing date, but heck, if they don't care about their children's welfare, then why care about their education?

.

 

I just had to address this statement from Vickie regarding her early December cruise. Please don't make a blanket judgement that because there are children on your cruise that their "bad parents" pulled them out of school. Many school systems now offer year round schooling. The breaks occur all year. We cruise with our kids in October. During the teachers convention. We've had many a VERY rude person make comments to us on our cruises along the lines of "shouldn't they be in school". (Not saying you'd do that, but some people ARE that nasty) And even though they are on break, I still make them study where we are going and learn while we travel.

 

Not wanting to open up that "pull your kids out of school to vacation" can of worms, just wanted to point out that things aren't always as they seem.

[Rustynail]

Didn't you know that some parents let there kids run wild because it's there vacation too. Come on they need a break from parenting once in a while and why not on a crusie ship where someone can can deal with the brats?:eek:

[jillybean2]

LoriLinay.... I too, took a little offense from that statement...however I am the actual irresponsible parent that is taking her children out of school for a cruise. My husband and I are both college educated (I actually went pretty far and have the patents, publications and degrees to prove it !) and we believe that education is almost the most important thing in our children's life. Second only to family. This cruise time was the only time we could get our family and both sets of parents (grandparents) together for a cruise. While I wish the kids didn't have to miss those 5 days of schools, I am not beating myself up about it. I have no doubt that the five days spent with their grandparents and great aunts will be a much more valuable experience for them then those days in school.

 

You never know how long the people you love will be with you. They should be the most important thing in your life and that's a lesson to share with your children!

[Shanafan]

LoriLinay.... I too, took a little offense from that statement...however I am the actual irresponsible parent that is taking her children out of school for a cruise. My husband and I are both college educated (I actually went pretty far and have the patents, publications and degrees to prove it !) and we believe that education is almost the most important thing in our children's life. Second only to family. This cruise time was the only time we could get our family and both sets of parents (grandparents) together for a cruise. While I wish the kids didn't have to miss those 5 days of schools, I am not beating myself up about it. I have no doubt that the five days spent with their grandparents and great aunts will be a much more valuable experience for them then those days in school.

 

You never know how long the people you love will be with you. They should be the most important thing in your life and that's a lesson to share with your children!

I am another one of those who have taken my kids out of school. For the past 3 years, we have done a Thanksgiving cruise. The kids usually miss 3 days of school. They have never had a problem catching up, in fact they usually have their homework done before we leave, and if not, they have a couple days to complete it.

 

Our kids are off during the usual holidays, and June thru August. I have no desire to cruise in the summer months, as our summers are too short to begin with, and would rather go when our weather is nasty. Depending on my Hubbys job, we sometimes have to go when we get the chance, and not just when the school vacations are.

 

Don't beat yourself up over it. I agree that some things are more important, and if that A+ turns into an A, so be it.

[LoriLinay]

Okay fine...I'll confess...The teachers convention is only 3 days. The kids miss 2 of school. LOL!!!

 

Now I'm going to go and get some chips and sit back, because I'm sure the 3 of us are about to have new "behinds" ripped open for being so deralict in our parenting duties...

[nosnobunny]

While I doubt that I would take my kids out of school for a vacation, I defend your right to raise your children as you see fit. And if that means missing some school, that's your business, not mine. Easy for me to say because mine are all raised. ;)

 

Beth

[vickie1ok]

Since my post was about my thinking about the welfare of children over my concerns about bratty kids, I didn't expect my response to this thread would result in comments about the children taken out of school bit. But that's okay, because I think it is also a good thread.

 

To quote nosnobunny, you have the right to do what ever you want with your kids. And I also have the right to question a parent's pulling a child out of school to go on a cruise. My parents never pulled one of their four children out of school for any other reason than sickness. And we were also good students. Now if you take your children out for a trip to a foriegn country on an educational trip and school them on the way, then I think that is positive. I"m not sure I would consider a Caribbean vacation in that category.

 

But that is your choice. I recall in junior high school when a girl from rich parents was pulled from school to go on a vacation to Alcapulco. She returned nicely tanned and was not docked on attendance. It sent a message that she and her family were more important than other students and their families. It also sent the message to her that she didn't need to worry about missing a few days of school. When you make the choice to pull your kids from their education, you are sending the same message.

 

Now one of you went on about family values and why you pullled your kids out of school to go on a cruise with the family. I don't buy that you could not have chosen a cruise over the holidays when you didn't have to pull kids out of school. But again, that is your right.

 

I hope those of you responding aren't going to expect for RCCL to babysit your kids. At least not on my sailing. And before you shout "Not MY kids!", then tell me you will supervise them most of the day.

[beachchick]

I'm the daughter of two teachers. Dad taught high school; mom taught middle school (man, was she brave!). I have two siblings. We all have multiple college degrees. Our parents also took us out of school occasionally for family events. Sometimes for a "mini" vacation with other family members. I really don't think we turned out too badly. We are all happily married and have stable lives.

 

In fact, my mother was supportive of parents taking their children out of school from time to time for trips, as longs as (1) the student was doing well in class (that is to say working hard, not necessarily getting straight A's), (2) the student didn't miss school at critical times such as finals, and (3) the student and the parents agreed to a schedule to make up work missed, as well as writing or presenting the story of what they learned or discovered on their trip.

 

As long as the parents and teacher(s) can agree to a make-up schedule, I don't see the harm in it. And yes I certainly understand about state funding. I am not saying it is acceptable to take children out of school all the time or even regularly; I'm saying that an occassional trip with family is as important as what our children learn in school.

 

beachchick

[LoriLinay]

Vick, I like to think that I'm that parent that takes their children on vacation and turns it into an educational experience. But I KNOW there are ones who don't think like I do. (Of course not on THIS board!!!)

 

Yes, our last cruise was to the caribbean. But before my kids left, we had read and researched and studied the origins of the islands. I made sure we discussed (and didn't just turn our heads) the poverty and the lifestyle on the islands. Our excursions were to the rain forests, not the shopping district. And both kids were required by me, and the teacher, to write a paper on each destination. We even got some math in there by plotting and calculating mileage. As my kids are getting older, I'm much less apt to take them out of school for anything.

 

I totally understand where you are coming from. I hope there are no hard feelings, as I did not intend that at all. I'm the first one at the mall to say to myself when I see school age kids during the day with their parents "How come they aren't in school" I know, I know..pot...kettle...black...

 

And no, I've NEVER expected ANYONE to babysit my kids on vacation. My children did not visit the kids clubs at all on our last vacation. Family vacations should be just that...FAMILY. Now a well placed break to get out of each others hair for a while is great, but I too don't get sending your kids off at the beginning of your cruise, and meeting back up with them on the last day!

 

Pass the popcorn....

[jillybean2]

Vickie1.....I did say that...earlier in the thread.

 

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone!!!

[WaterWish]

Since my daughter's only in first grade, I haven't (yet) taken her out of public school for a vacation. But according to parents in my area who have done it, the "procedure," in order to keep the school from losing its state funding, is to tell the teacher, "I'm calling her in sick next week."

 

I think it's entirely up to the parents, the teacher, and the student's particular work habits, etc. as to whether or not a child should miss school for something extracurricular. I do think there is more to life than school. I took my daughter out of Montessori kindergarten this past March for a 5-day cruise, and I was surprised at the number of people who asked me if she was home-schooled. Maybe she looks/acts older than her age, so they thought she was missing multiplication drills or something. We climbed Dunn's River Falls, we had Peat Taylor drive us around the Jamaican countryside, we visited Ferngully and learned about some of the foliage there, we visited a Jamaican school, we snorkeled, we experienced sting rays and learned about them. It all depends on how it's handled.

 

Our next trip (Navigator 12/18/04), she's on holiday vacation. I'm hoping for more kids on the ship this time.