Royal Champions

[ACruiseGuy]

 

But it has really hurt me to think that the contributions made by non-champs ( Sorry the other 99.9% CC Members ) aren't valued :-(

 

I wanted to extend and clarify my remess.

arks this morning about the big picture, and my not believing that all press is good pr

We do have to realize that boards like this often charge their advertisers by the board's popularity, which is determined by traffic. The Chicago Tribune charges more for advertising than does the Southern Illinoisan because of readership/size, for example. So this fight IS great for CC -- more hits, the potential for more money. The large number of folks who might be curious about this viral marketing bruhaha from reading the many articles about it on the net, might come here, themselves, to learn more -- and then there would be more hits.

 

I learned at the birthday party that a friend's daughter is planning a cruise -- I told her to email me if she had any questions, or go to CruiseMates. I felt better about recommending the second largest cruise site since it hasn't been a part of any viral marketing. My conscience wouldn't allow me to do otherwise.

 

Sometimes, I have to go to a political site for opposition research, and it does pain me that I just gave them a hit.

 

Jaxon -- Royal Chump, charter member

 

Heres what I don't understand then...if you DON'T want to contribute to page hits here, and you can't in good conscience recommend this joint to anyone --- what in the heck are you still doing here?? As you say, there are other sites, plenty of em out there. Find one that fits you better.

[Bakincakes]

Sorry, but you would be wrong. RCCL never told me what I could or should post. How can I PROVE it to you? Easy, look at all my reviews that brought me to the Diamond plus level BEFORE I was selected to be a RC in Sept. Look at everyones reviews that are RC. I really do not think you'll see any difference in their posts or reviews before or after becoming RC's.

 

I can't go any higher in the Loyalty Program unless they plan on letting me drive the ships myself:D so what do I or others have to gain. Nothing! If they ever send me an invite to an event or inaugural and I have to pay my own expenses like they say I do in the email I received the other day.........still nothing! They are making money ON ME as I'm paying! lol Talk about a great marketing idea!

Send out invites and get people to PAY to be on the ships or to go to an event! They are "giving" us nothing but an opportunity to spend OUR money to go see a new ship or to go to an event and to spend OUR money while we are there! Pure genius PLUS they have everyone buzzing about RCCL and basically........ it hasn't cost them a dime!

So now...... why is everyone so mad about the RC program again? :D

 

 

I think the issue is that RCI wasn't candid about what the RC program was or what they expected to gain out of it.

 

They clearly want positive posts and plenty of them, in their own words. Unless they are total idiots they would make certain that those chosen would produce exactly those results.

 

Nothing is better than than to make people believe that someone else is getting something better than the next guy is. They created this program knowing that those chosen wouldn't be able to resist calling attention to their membership. Even nicer would be the "mystery" surrounding the chosen ones. Who knows how they were chosen. (Not giving specifics of criteria makes everyone believe they have a shot at getting in)

 

Posters would assume that in order to get in you had to make nice..nice to RCI. Wannabees would then post often and try to call attention to themselves to get noticed.(Have you noticed that some need to put "charter" in order to distinguish themselves from the johnny come latelys??):p

 

This is marketing at its best. RCI gets CC members to do the work for them and they throw perks around to keep the masses happy. Meanwhile they are getting positive posts from members...positive posts from those longing to be noticed and invited.

 

Win..win..

[hazence]

Sorry, but you would be wrong. RCCL never told me what I could or should post. How can I PROVE it to you? Easy, look at all my reviews that brought me to the Diamond plus level BEFORE I was selected to be a RC in Sept. Look at everyones reviews that are RC. I really do not think you'll see any difference in their posts or reviews before or after becoming RC's.

 

I can't go any higher in the Loyalty Program unless they plan on letting me drive the ships myself:D so what do I or others have to gain. Nothing! If they ever send me an invite to an event or inaugural and I have to pay my own expenses like they say I do in the email I received the other day.........still nothing! They are making money ON ME as I'm paying! lol Talk about a great marketing idea!

Send out invites and get people to PAY to be on the ships or to go to an event! They are "giving" us nothing but an opportunity to spend OUR money to go see a new ship or to go to an event and to spend OUR money while we are there! Pure genius PLUS they have everyone buzzing about RCCL and basically........ it hasn't cost them a dime!

So now...... why is everyone so mad about the RC program again? :D

 

I do believe you.

 

I am offended by a program that infiltrates a Board like this, identifies a small group of posters that fit a certain profile...AND ON THAT BASIS...not cruises, posts, etc...gives them special status, special perks, and, in some cases free cruises. This is done with the express intent of CREATING A SITUATION ON THIS BOARD where one group of favored posters unwittingly influence other posters. IT creates its own VIRUS on this Board...attacks on those who critique RCCL, wannabe posters who try to be "chosen", attempts by others to post in a way that attracts RCCL attention and get them "chosen." These are all reactions to having a few Champs who were given special perks.

 

The Board is effected by it in MANY ways. Yet posters here were unaware that all this stategy was going on...NOT by the Champs..but the Puppetmasters at RCCL behind the Champs.

 

It creates an artificiality here.

[hazence]

I think the issue is that RCI wasn't candid about what the RC program was or what they expected to gain out of it.

 

They clearly want positive posts and plenty of them, in their own words. Unless they are total idiots they would make certain that those chosen would produce exactly those results.

 

Nothing is better than than to make people believe that someone else is getting something better than the next guy is. They created this program knowing that those chosen wouldn't be able to resist calling attention to their membership. Even nicer would be the "mystery" surrounding the chosen ones. Who knows how they were chosen. (Not giving specifics of criteria makes everyone believe they have a shot at getting in)

 

Posters would assume that in order to get in you had to make nice..nice to RCI. Wannabees would then post often and try to call attention to themselves to get noticed.(Have you noticed that some need to put "charter" in order to distinguish themselves from the johnny come latelys??):p

 

This is marketing at its best. RCI gets CC members to do the work for them and they throw perks around to keep the masses happy. Meanwhile they are getting positive posts from members...positive posts from those longing to be noticed and invited.

 

Win..win..

 

Great post.

[ACruiseGuy]

I think the issue is that RCI wasn't candid about what the RC program was or what they expected to gain out of it.

 

 

At least they weren't until almost two years after initial invites....as reported in that blog.

[jaxon41]

That wasn't the post I was referring to. It was a news piece, not a posting. I'm not sure it was you, but certainly could have been. I tried to find it the other day and wasn't able to. I thought it was in the news section here but may have been from another source. And if my memory is distorted, I apologize. But that was my memory of what the article said.

 

I contacted Laura Sterling, Cruise Critic’s community manager about the Royal Champion program. She did not reply to my e-mails. However, she did write a general post to all board readers regarding the Royal Champion program where she says the program is for “influencing others who are not customers to sail on Royal Caribbean.” She adds, “It’s the new trend on the Web, and it will be here to stay. It’s the reason our site is so popular. The consumer voice sells product.”

http://www.tripso.com/columns/royal-caribbean-goes-viral-with-their-royal-champions/[/url]

 

 

I believe this is what you may be looking for. I asked for anyone here -- the chumps or the champs -- if they had seen this, could they show me where it was. Crickets. Ms. Sterling, and Ms. Tucker, probably didn't see my request :)

 

Jaxon -- Royal Chump, charter member

[Bakincakes]

At least they weren't until almost two years after initial invites....as reported in that blog.

 

the memo must have gotten lost in the mail.:p

[ACruiseGuy]

I geuess it is decision time for many, eh? you can only hash and rehash so much. over and over again the same info is bandied about. where will it get anyone? i suspect some of you can go on forever. Me? i'll probably stay around because i've been here for so long and i'm ok w/ the status quo. I don't really like posthing that much anymore (used to tho), but really have learned alot here. that's how sweet this is...there are other places to go for your cruise info.

 

so i ask you all -- what will you ultimately do???

[hazence]

Suppose I have a class of 40 children. One morning I arrive and give five of the children brand new bikes. I announce that they may call themselves the Champion Children on all their classwork now. No explanation or rationale offered.

 

I invite the Champion Children alone to special parties at my home and they return and tell their classmates about all the special treats I provided. The rest of the class watches and wonders. What is teacher's criteria? How can the unchosen child behave so that all these great things come to him? I, the teacher, am mysterious about my criteria. HMMM, what should the unchosen students do? What is human nature that they will do?

 

The simplest strategy is to copy or mimic the behavior of the chosen few If they sing my praises...sing them too. If they attack another child who questions my grading...attack her too. Others will draw attention to themselves...always in a way that they guess might be what I want. THERE ARE NO OTHER GUIDELINES! The other children want bikes and parties too...so they fall in line and model themselves after teacher's pets.

 

THAT is an artificial enviroment, certainly not condusive to honesty and exchange of real ideas. That's the viral marketing that was practiced here.

 

the dilemma of trying to get chosen sucks all the air ...and reality out of the place.

[ACruiseGuy]

 

THAT is an artificial enviroment, certainly not condusive to honesty and exchange of real ideas. That's the viral marketing that was practiced here.

 

Getting chosen sucks all the air ...and reality out of the place.

 

So, i guess we know what you'll do.....

[jaxon41]

Why a topic in itself? Who cares? This is not an adults only forum. The 14 year old is enthusiastic about cruises. He has made many informative posts here. And I am sure other teens are interested in the perspective of a another teen.

 

Did you read Buzzploitation of Minors by the good doc that was linked?

[Ship's Wake]

The below post was made by Kathleen Tucker, Publisher of Cruise Critic:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=944526&page=64

 

I would like to address the issue of transparency and responsibility

for disclosure that has come up a number of times in this thread.

 

Some have requested that Cruise Critic have a formal policy requiring

RC’s to identify themselves as such. While we can encourage members

to disclose their affiliations, it’s impossible for us to require

it. We are operating an anonymous online community and there’s no

way for us to verify that anyone is who they say they are or aren’t.

 

Many of those who identify themselves as Royal Champions, have been

doing so since they were first called that, in their signatures on

the Cruise Critic message boards. To my knowledge they never tried

to hide it, and in fact were pretty open about it.

 

Was it the RC’s responsibility to disclose that they were part of a

viral marketing program? Based on what I have read on the Cruise

Critic boards, I don’t think the RC’s knew they were part of a viral

marketing program until the recent articles in question came out. I

also don’t think they were told to do anything specifically on Cruise

Critic. Nor do I think Royal Caribbean had or has any control over

what they say here.

 

Was it Cruise Critic’s responsibility to disclose what Royal

Caribbean was doing with its Royal Champion’s program? Royal

Caribbean isn’t in the habit of sharing all of the details of its

marketing programs with Cruise Critic. When Bill Hayden first

contacted us two years ago, it was in regards to forwarding an

invitation to some Cruise Critic members they wanted to invite on the

Liberty of the Seas pre-inaugural sailing. There was no mention of a

Royal Champions viral marketing program at that time. Most of what

we know about the program, we have learned here on the Cruise Critic

boards.

 

Contrary to what some of you may believe, we have never tried to

censor discussions about Royal Champions on the Cruise Critic message

boards. If you search the boards you will find thousands of threads

with that term in them. When this recent debate started there were

multiple threads containing personal attacks and copyrighted material

in them and our staff was overwhelmed. We also believe most people

come here to discuss cruise advice, not Royal Caribbean’s marketing

programs, hence the sticky.

 

Overall, it is my personal opinion that the Cruise Critic members who

identify themselves as Royal Champions love to share their cruise

experiences and are some of the most helpful and candid members of

Cruise Critic. I think they give great advice and will tell you

candidly what they like as well as what they don't like. They did so

before they were chosen to be a Royal Champion. And they continued

to do so after they were chosen. I want to thank them for their

contributions over the years to the Cruise Critic community and I am

deeply saddened by some of the things that have been said here about

them.

 

Some of us would like to go back to talking about cruises. While I

would like to think this discussion has run its course, I know that

some of you will want to continue to debate it. We are going to

rename this thread shortly and unsticky it. Just wanted to let you

know ahead of time so you don’t think it’s been censored!

 

Kathleen Tucker

Publisher

Cruise Critic

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Kathleen,

 

Thank you for your post.

 

I will accept your statement at face value of not knowing that Royal Caribbean was engaged in a viral marketing campaign at the time you allowed them access to part of your email list. I have no reason to doubt you.

 

The past cannot be changed.

 

Going forward, are you going to ask Royal Caribbean to disband the Royal Champions and cease to conduct viral campaigns on Cruise Critic forums?

 

Kindest regards,

 

Joe

[aqhacruiser]

Hey, just curious - i'm no where near a d or d+ so what exactly is a "CL"??

 

The CL stands for concierge lounge which is on Voyager and Freedom class ships. Only Diamonds, Diamond plus and suite guests have 24/7 use of it but they drink alcohol for free everynight from 5-830pm. No one on here that is D or D+ has a problem about getting free booze from RCCL do they? Nor are they worried how their Diamond/plus level and the perks they get may be seen as RCCL influencing them do they? :D

[hazence]

Not while I still have something to say. And there are Chumps here I have come to like very much.

[Bakincakes]

Suppose I have a class of 40 children. One morning I arrive and give five of the children brand new bikes. I announce that they may call themselves the Champion Children on all their classwork now. No exp[lanation or rationale offered.

 

I invite the Champion Children alone to special parties at my home and they return and tell their classmates about all the special treats I provided. The rest of the class watches and wonders. What is teacher's criteria? How can the unchosen child behave so that all these great things come to him? I, the teacher, am mysterious about my criteria. HMMM, what should the unchosen students do? What is human nature that they will do?

 

The simplest strategy is to copy or mimic the behavior of the chosen few If they sing my praises...sing them too. If they attack another child who questions my grading...attack her too. Others will draw attention to themselves...always in a way that they guess might be what I want. THERE ARE NO OTHER GUIDELLINES! The other children want bikes and parties too...so they fall in line and model themselves after teacher's pets.

 

THAT is an artificial enviroment, certainly not condusive to honesty and exchange of real ideas. That's the viral marketing that was practiced here.

 

Getting chosen sucks all the air ...and reality out of the place.

 

Perfect analogy.

 

You have to hand it to RCI...this was a brilliant strategy. They created a "class warfare" atmosphere by creating a bogus "club" that was basically no more than a red herring, in most cases.

 

I recall that some posters even named CC members they thought should be "honored" by being chosen to join the elite.:o How embarrassing to now find that the main criteria was to post often and bash fellow members who didn't see RCI as perfection on the seas.

 

And I understand that CC merely forwarded contact info on prospective members but still think they should have insisted that RCI provide guidelines before doing so.

 

RCI should be ashamed to have used CCs credibility for their own gains.

[hazence]

The CL stands for concierge lounge which is on Voyager and Freedom class ships. Only Diamonds, Diamond plus and suite guests have 24/7 use of it but they drink alcohol for free everynight from 5-830pm. No one on here that is D or D+ has a problem about getting free booze from RCCL do they? Nor are they worried how their Diamond/plus level and the perks they get may be seen as RCCL influencing them do they? :D

 

The REASON you have earned those free drinks is easily understood by all...on all levels. Anyone can achieve it. Not so this mysterious program called Royal Champion.

[stanford's girl]

Exactly what part of this did Cruisecritic.com create? CC's involvement ended when they forwarded RCI's request for contact with some CC members to the CC members. This was done this way to keep CC member's e-mail addresses confidential.

Cruisecritic.com has nothing to do with the RC program.

 

So can anyone email Cruise Critic and ask them to act as a go between for them to get another posters email address or is this privilege only for RCCL? :confused:

Host Mick' date='

I am sincere in my question so would you please answer this for me? :)[/color']

Thank you,

Janice

[Bakincakes]

The CL stands for concierge lounge which is on Voyager and Freedom class ships. Only Diamonds, Diamond plus and suite guests have 24/7 use of it but they drink alcohol for free everynight from 5-830pm. No one on here that is D or D+ has a problem about getting free booze from RCCL do they? Nor are they worried how their Diamond/plus level and the perks they get may be seen as RCCL influencing them do they? :D

 

If you have reached Diamond status it is pretty evident that you like RCI and are more than willing to give them good reviews and ratings.

 

The RC program wasn't based on money spent..or number of cruises taken. It was based on how many positive posts you made and how hard you were willing to cheerlead for RCI.

 

As pointed out before...Diamonds earn their perks by spending thousands with RCI. RCs may have spent a fraction but obtained their "status" by their activity on a chatboard. That in and of itself made it attractive to wannabees who were more than willing to do whatever it took to get noticed and acknowledged.

 

Didn't take long for RC members to make certain their new status was displayed in their sig lines. Do you think RCI didn't think that would happen?:rolleyes: Questions started. Other members wanted to know how one got chosen. New invitees made certain others knew they had benn chosen..and on and on.

 

Human nature dictates "bragging" about such things. RCI can't have failed to notice that many posters feel the need to list every cruise they have been on and those they are booked on. They had to know that RCs would add to that list and the intrigue.

[Host Mick]

So can anyone email Cruise Critic and ask them to act as a go between for them to get another posters email address or is this privilege only for RCCL? :confused:

 

You misunderstood. We DO NOT give out e-mail addresses.

[hazence]

Here's my problem with the program.

 

"Suppose I have a class of 40 children. One morning I arrive and give five of the children brand new bikes. I announce that they may call themselves the Champion Children on all their classwork now. No explanation or rationale offered. The usual standards of grades or participation do NOT apply to the chosen in any understandable way.

 

I invite the Champion Children alone to special parties at my home and they return and tell their classmates about all the special treats I provided. The rest of the class watches and wonders. What is teacher's criteria? How can the unchosen child behave so that all these great things come to him? I, the teacher, am mysterious about my criteria. HMMM, what should the unchosen students do? What is human nature that they will do?

 

The simplest strategy is to copy or mimic the behavior of the chosen few If they sing my praises...sing them too. If they attack another child who questions my grading...attack her too. Others will draw attention to themselves...always in a way that they guess might be what I want. THERE ARE NO OTHER GUIDELINES! The other children want bikes and parties too...so they fall in line and model themselves after teacher's pets.

 

THAT is an artificial enviroment, certainly not condusive to honesty and exchange of real ideas. That's the viral marketing that was practiced here.

 

The dilemma of trying to get chosen sucks all the air ...and reality out of the place.

 

My problem is with the program NOT the Royal Champs.

 

 

 

[jaxon41]

I think this may be what you were referring to...

Laura Sterling's post on CC:

 

 

"As a matter of fact, Cruise Critic will be 'speaking' at the EyeforTravel Social Media conference next month. Topic of our discussion? Does Cruise Chatter Matter? As you can see from the creation of the RC's, and a similar program we helped work on w/ Celebrity, your voice is powerful and they recognize it.

 

If you think about it, they are "influencing the brand influencers" with marketing programs such as these.

 

It's the new trend on the web, and it will be here to stay. "

 

Are posts disappearing and threads being squished as a result? Do I have to write the post where I left off, and not just the page -=- I never saw this, but I saw posts in that page of the thread -- this has happened a number of times to me and reminds me of what we went through with all the darned merging on the mega fuel surcharge thread. It became very difficult to keep fully informed of comments on the thread. Anyone else having this problem?

 

To Kuki's post -- thanks. So we now see the near exact replication of Hancock's words cited on the Insight blog -- I'd say the heads are working very closely together.

 

Darn it anyway -- I was hoping they were only rolling out this canard on RCCL -- as Celebrity is my preferred line.

[Ephraim]

Suppose I have a class of 40 children. One morning I arrive and give five of the children brand new bikes. I announce that they may call themselves the Champion Children on all their classwork now. No explanation or rationale offered.

 

I invite the Champion Children alone to special parties at my home and they return and tell their classmates about all the special treats I provided. The rest of the class watches and wonders. What is teacher's criteria? How can the unchosen child behave so that all these great things come to him? I, the teacher, am mysterious about my criteria. HMMM, what should the unchosen students do? What is human nature that they will do?

 

The simplest strategy is to copy or mimic the behaviour of the chosen few If they sing my praises...sing them too. If they attack another child who questions my grading...attack her too. Others will draw attention to themselves...always in a way that they guess might be what I want. THERE ARE NO OTHER GUIDELINES! The other children want bikes and parties too...so they fall in line and model themselves after teacher's pets.

 

THAT is an artificial environment, certainly not conducive to honesty and exchange of real ideas. That's the viral marketing that was practised here.

 

the dilemma of trying to get chosen sucks all the air ...and reality out of the place.

 

Having done my certificate in adult education, I can tell you that we have basically one important rule... when you walk into the room you make sure that you haven't heard ANYTHING about your class from anyone else because it will taint your perception of them.

 

They have done experiments where the teacher has been tainted by other teachers telling them of their experience with the class and it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

They have done this with classrooms where the teachers were told the opposite of the reality. (ie a good class was called horrible and a horrible class was called great) The end result was almost always the same, self fulfilling prophecy.

 

I realize that on CC you can't read any intonation into what people are saying. You can't tell when people are trying to be funny or trying to be sarcastic. That is why I try my best to drop all previous conceptions before I meet people IRL. (Though, I have to admit that there was one exception to this, when I met a man who was saying nasty discriminatory (racial) things about my and my partner's origin.) I hope that as much as I can that people have a clean slate when I meet them. And hope that I'm treated the same way.

 

You may return to your p...ing match. It's not getting anything solved, but at least it's fun seeing seeing how far everyone can p...

[bigboffs]

It is a fact that there are two very opposite positions on the issue of Royal Champions. One group,heavily populated with "Champions" see nothing wrong. The other,larger group who feel somehow betrayed by RCCL and referred to as Chumps by many. The bottom line is that RCCL has been at the center of a public relations screw up that it can ill afford.Further, as long as the "Champions" exist, this PR problem will continue to grow.

 

Starting with the stopping of combinability, and continuing with a reduction/elimination of some onboard niceties, and higher pricing; we have had a problem. We have been loyal to Royal, had used no other and we have six pending booked cruises. As a result of our perceived problems with RCCL we have now taken 2 Princess cruises and have two more pending. In addition to the 4 RCCL has lost, we are considering whether or not to cancel some or all of the 6 now booked. We are not the only ones in this mode. This current flap about "Champions" is certainly not helping. Can RCCL continue in this downward slide?

 

There has been mention of the value of the CL. Between the large number eligible to use the lounge and the "gate crashers," the crowds are growing to impossible dimensions.

Honestly, we have loved to travel with the "old" RCCL; however, the new one is simply not as good.

[alexkrn46]

Suppose I have a class of 40 children. One morning I arrive and give five of the children brand new bikes. I announce that they may call themselves the Champion Children on all their classwork now. No explanation or rationale offered.

 

I invite the Champion Children alone to special parties at my home and they return and tell their classmates about all the special treats I provided. The rest of the class watches and wonders. What is teacher's criteria? How can the unchosen child behave so that all these great things come to him? I, the teacher, am mysterious about my criteria. HMMM, what should the unchosen students do? What is human nature that they will do?

 

The simplest strategy is to copy or mimic the behavior of the chosen few If they sing my praises...sing them too. If they attack another child who questions my grading...attack her too. Others will draw attention to themselves...always in a way that they guess might be what I want. THERE ARE NO OTHER GUIDELINES! The other children want bikes and parties too...so they fall in line and model themselves after teacher's pets.

 

THAT is an artificial enviroment, certainly not condusive to honesty and exchange of real ideas. That's the viral marketing that was practiced here.

 

the dilemma of trying to get chosen sucks all the air ...and reality out of the place.

 

There is a saying no such thing as bad publicity. Going on that premise I would say RCCL is brilliant. Headlines on Tripso, USA Today, and MSNBC all for free. This interaction on CC.

 

My question to the administrators, Laura contact members for permission to for the RC programs, then Mike says no emails were exchanged. Buzz Metric used the posts, to select the RC, was CC unaware of this process or was Buzz Metrics given access to the database.

 

Charter Member Royal Chump

[stanford's girl]

You misunderstood. We DO NOT give out e-mail addresses.

I know you don't give out email addresses. I think you misunderstood my question or maybe I worded it wrong. You posted that "CC's involvement ended when they forwarded RCI's request for contact with some CC members to the CC members."

 

My question is will CC forward a contact request to a CC member, if asked by another CC member?